the HUGE problem with GirlsChase!

[trashKENNUT]

BUMP

 

[P.a.p]

Chase and the other's in GC's team this is to all of you. It's not a rant. It's just my 2 cents. My constructive criticism, that I hope can make GC that much greater for all who are reading.



I've noticed a trend here.

Most articles and advice are about seducing the most beautiful women there are. The women who make models look ugly in comparison. The girls who have millionaires chasing them. The women who have 50 or more guys trying to win her at any one time. The women who get approached 167 time per week. The kind most men will never even meet, not to speak even try to talk to.


And these articles assume that every single guy reading is of James Bond status.


So while writing you must not assume that every guy is like you, or wants to be like you.


It's not about how a regular guy can seduce a regular girl.

Not every guy wants the hottest women you can imagine. Most guys want a beautiful-in a cute way, girl. A nice regular girl. The kind that doesn't have tons of guys hitting on her every day. That hasn't been with 30-40 guys.

The kind that is shy and maybe likes you enough that she want's to be with you.


Cause most articles left me with a feeling of:
- women don't care about you
- they have had sooo much experience that you don't matter to her
- she doesn't care if you talk to her, if you go out together, if you sleep together, if you start dating
- she has at least 10 guys who are banging her on a regular basis and has another 3 boyfriends, all at the same time
- so she doesn't give a crap about you or any man



Yes the general idea is the same:
- have good fundamentals
- approach
- deep dive
- escalate

But the how you do it is very different.




And if you try to seduce a shy girl, that doesn't have much experience with guys, that has never been approach during the day, the way you'd do with a super hot, experienced woman, that has billionaires and celebrities crawling for her...

Well you won't have that much success.


Even acting super smooth and james bond-like may intimidate the girls you are trying to get.



I'm not saying the content is not good - IT'S GOLD!

Just saying that the majority of readers are normal guys who like normal girls and want to get into a relationship. Or maybe even guys who want that one special girl. To them the advice : "forget her" or "sleep with lots of women" may not apply.

Yes there are guys who want to be master seducers and sleep with hundreds of women and date the movie stars and super models.
But those are a very small part of your readership.


The majority of readers, the once that will buy your books and products are the loosers. The ones who are not smooth and have no experience with women or dating.


I know you, Chase and you other writers are experienced and good with women. But you must think from the perspective of the majority who are not like you.




I'm not sure if this is cultural difference between Europe and the US, but things are very different. But I can tell you (since I live in Europe) that the advice you give for the US won't work in Europe(maybe it'll in the UK), or it won't work in China or Japan or India, or Russia, etc.

And even if you american readers love the info - the readers from the rest of the world won't.

What I'm trying to say is you should diversify your team of writers.

Get guys from:
- central Europe
- Scandinavian Europe
- Eastern Europe (where I'm from)
- Asia
- Russia
- Australia
- etc.

Cause you can check your google analytics and I bet that like 50% of your readership is not from the US.

And I know you have a few articles about different countries but to the regular readers from those countries - 1 article is not enough.

I know you can't be that experienced in seducing in all those other countries - so get guys who live there their whole lives and know how seduction works there.


You can open a new section called "Seducing outside the US" and have all those articles written by those guys, go there.




For the rest of the readers, what do you think?

Does my idea make any sense to you?

Would you want GC to expand to outside the US?

Or any other ideas, just write them bellow.

i agree with a lot of this. I read chases post about going after hot girls and it’s wrong and simply won’t work to maintain things with women of actual quality or work well to seduce them for that matter. I’ve watched several videos by hector castillo that actually promote socially unacceptable behavior in regards to seducing women. I was actually about to do a post review on several of the YouTube videos. What role does hector actually play in regards to girls chase?

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

i agree with a lot of this. I read chases post about going after hot girls and it’s wrong and simply won’t work to maintain things with women of actual quality or work well to seduce them for that matter. I’ve watched several videos by hector castillo that actually promote socially unacceptable behavior in regards to seducing women. I was actually about to do a post review on several of the YouTube videos. What role does hector actually play in regards to girls chase?

Lol.

"It's wrong."

"Socially unacceptable behavior."

> Presents no argument.

Can't wait to see the review.

Hector

 

[P.a.p]

i agree with a lot of this. I read chases post about going after hot girls and it’s wrong and simply won’t work to maintain things with women of actual quality or work well to seduce them for that matter. I’ve watched several videos by hector castillo that actually promote socially unacceptable behavior in regards to seducing women. I was actually about to do a post review on several of the YouTube videos. What role does hector actually play in regards to girls chase?

Lol.

"It's wrong."

"Socially unacceptable behavior."

> Presents no argument.

Can't wait to see the review.

Hector

You seem upset in your response. The “it’s wrong” was in correlation to a sticky by chase. The “socially unacceptable behavior” was in regards to a video you made. Honestly there’s no need to be defensive out of insecurity and worry to much what others think of you. What role do you play in regards to girls chase? Are you a employee? A fan?

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

You seem upset in your response. The “it’s wrong” was in correlation to a sticky by chase. The “socially unacceptable behavior” was in regards to a video you made. Honestly there’s no need to be defensive out of insecurity and worry to much what others think of you. What role do you play in regards to girls chase? Are you a employee? A fan?

Sophomore tactics. Do better than, "you're insecure for defending your name." It's a cheap tactic and easily defused. You've yet to present an argument regarding what you're specifically talking about being "wrong." Argue points, not people.

Hector

 

[P.a.p]

You seem upset in your response. The “it’s wrong” was in correlation to a sticky by chase. The “socially unacceptable behavior” was in regards to a video you made. Honestly there’s no need to be defensive out of insecurity and worry to much what others think of you. What role do you play in regards to girls chase? Are you a employee? A fan?

Sophomore tactics. Do better than, "you're insecure for defending your name." It's a cheap tactic and easily defused. You've yet to present an argument regarding what you're specifically talking about being "wrong." Argue points, not people.

Hector

I would but I’m not sure where to start or which video for that matter, as I’ve found several things that are inaccurate. You need to respond maturely hector, as every time you do it’s laden with defense mechanisms. People who often behave like that do that out of fear. It indicates you have something to hide. One error you made in a recent video was you inaccurately went off on a false assumption and used it as basis for your argument. You think that men who don’t show interest are creepy. Why that’s wrong:

1. Not every girl a guy sees is gonna be worthwhile, thus not every girl is worth the time to be hit on. Largely the decision depends on whether or not the guy values female friendship or not.
2. Simply showing interest in a girl is not enough to get the girl. I excel at going direct and showing my intent by the approach I take by shutting down her defense mechanisms with quips, being high value through being entertaining and properly sexually escalating indirectly which is socially savvy. What is unsavvy is being direct saying stuff like “I want to cum in your ass” like you did in the video and you talk about how you get shut down at times. Basically the underlying premise you have is that juxtapose male masculinity onto women, where as women are different than men and more aware so indirectly influencing her sexually is more efficient.
3. Not really a big deal, you bring up James Bond but fail to recognize why he’s efficient. James Bond and myself are actual alpha males. We use quips to drop bitch shields and excel at humor based game. Most actual alpha males are witty and people find us attractive because they have fun with us which leads to high status from innate charm, another reason we are attractive. I suggest you pay closer attention to Daniel Craig in skyfall when he’s dealing with the female agent.
4. Insecure behavior is not creepy to them, it’s unappealing because women themselves are insecure and often are their worse enemies. Mentally to them it causes discomfort and by having someone else like that only adds fuel to the fire so to speak, so they do their best to avoid those scenarios.

What you actually got right:
1. Non verbal push pull, works in scenarios where women go off physical attraction and not game.
2. Leading in your demeanor as a man is beneficial, still gonna need charm overall to supplicate that as showing interest is not enough. Lacking substance women won’t stay long.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

You need to respond maturely hector, as every time you do it’s laden with defense mechanisms. People who often behave like that do that out of fear. It indicates you have something to hide.

Again, amateur tactics. Try another route. Doesn't work here.

You think that men who don’t show interest are creepy.

You didn't read the title or watch the video, did you?

Not Showing Interest to a Girl Can Be Creepy

Can be creepy =/= always creepy. Reading comprehension started you off with a false premise. Everything you say afterwards is bunk.

. Not every girl a guy sees is gonna be worthwhile, thus not every girl is worth the time to be hit on. Largely the decision depends on whether or not the guy values female friendship or not.

Never said that every woman was.

Simply showing interest in a girl is not enough to get the girl.

Never said it was.

Not really a big deal, you bring up James Bond but fail to recognize why he’s efficient.

The James Bond reference was a joke, dude. So much for being alpha, you can't recognize basic humor.

Insecure behavior is not creepy to them, it’s unappealing because women themselves are insecure and often are their worse enemies.

No. It's creepy. An insecure guy isn't going to cause insecurity problems in the girl - he will cause feelings of superiority in her. Your argument makes 0 sense. When women feel insecure is when guys make them feel insecure because they out-value the girl. By your logic, women are being triggered 24/7.

That was easy. See ya around, kid.

Hector

 

[P.a.p]

You need to respond maturely hector, as every time you do it’s laden with defense mechanisms. People who often behave like that do that out of fear. It indicates you have something to hide.

Again, amateur tactics. Try another route. Doesn't work here.

You think that men who don’t show interest are creepy.

You didn't read the title or watch the video, did you?

Not Showing Interest to a Girl Can Be Creepy

Can be creepy =/= always creepy. Reading comprehension started you off with a false premise. Everything you say afterwards is bunk.

. Not every girl a guy sees is gonna be worthwhile, thus not every girl is worth the time to be hit on. Largely the decision depends on whether or not the guy values female friendship or not.

Never said that every woman was.

Simply showing interest in a girl is not enough to get the girl.

Never said it was.

Not really a big deal, you bring up James Bond but fail to recognize why he’s efficient.

The James Bond reference was a joke, dude. So much for being alpha, you can't recognize basic humor.

Insecure behavior is not creepy to them, it’s unappealing because women themselves are insecure and often are their worse enemies.

No. It's creepy. An insecure guy isn't going to cause insecurity problems in the girl - he will cause feelings of superiority in her. Your argument makes 0 sense. When women feel insecure is when guys make them feel insecure because they out-value the girl. By your logic, women are being triggered 24/7.

That was easy. See ya around, kid.

Hector

You don’t understand women and have zero game. You asked me to show you the error in your reasoning and failed to comprehend what I said. Your remark about James Bond wasn’t remotely funny or I would have laughed. You said attack the premise but then deflect back onto attacking me. Surely you aren’t that dumb. Look I know you don’t do well with women, your response indicates a low self esteem which ties into confidence which I can tell you have issues with. Your advice is crap and misguided. You tried to lie because you were proven wrong. I fuck strippers, occasionally models and breasturant girls. Your still learning and I’m far beyond that process. You lack substance and will never do well with hot girls. Your attempt at humor shows you lack it, which is clearly autistic spectrum. This is further indicating by your reasoning ability which shows cognitive issues. Here is the proof that hector was lying you all.

https://youtu.be/ck2FJsK8Ogc

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

There was no proof in anything you said. Half of your responses were to things I didn't even say. You made your points, they were defused, and now I'm making fun of you.

Troll confirmed. Ban incoming. Bye, faggot.

Hector

 

[P.a.p]

There was no proof in anything you said. Half of your responses were to things I didn't even say. You made your points, they were defused, and now I'm making fun of you.

Troll confirmed. Ban incoming. Bye, faggot.

Hector

That’s not trolling. You were wrong, how is that making fun of me? Still showing lack of social sophistication. You said in the video about how creepy is relative to the girl at hand, which is not so. Your upset because I actually get results and you don’t? I’m not surprised, jealousy is insecurity. You can feel free to comment on my videos once I start making them

 

[trashKENNUT]

P.a.p,

Should not bump this but i bump this for constructive learning.

Girlschase is the only forum where ideas are battle out with peace, except for abortion and religion, which i believe i can have the conversation with the high rank guys but not everyone because everyone tends to be fucktard. (tribalism!)

Eh man, i argued with a lot of people here. but all i see is you attacking Hector with some shade of school tactic frame battles.

In arguments, your tactics of shade + 'constructive' arguments is fine in reality. It's how you win over stupid people.

But while here there's enough stupid people per se, most of the people here want real constructive battles.

Zac

 

[P.a.p]

P.a.p,

Should not bump this but i bump this for constructive learning.

Girlschase is the only forum where ideas are battle out with peace, except for abortion and religion, which i believe i can have the conversation with the high rank guys but not everyone because everyone tends to be fucktard. (tribalism!)

Eh man, i argued with a lot of people here. but all i see is you attacking Hector with some shade of school tactic frame battles.

In arguments, your tactics of shade + 'constructive' arguments is fine in reality. It's how you win over stupid people.

But while here there's enough stupid people per se, most of the people here want real constructive battles.

Zac

has nothing to do with frames, although they can be used as justification for things. He was implying that in some instances it’s ok to go grind girls you don’t know, where as a socially savvy person would understand that if you don’t know the girl it’s socially unacceptable to touch unless she’s interested and comfortable with you. His sexually escalation tactic gets him burned because it’s unsavvy. I’ve been good with women and understand the premise behind their behavior, so I can understand things from their POV. The problem I see zac is that when guys who don’t naturally do well with women communicate with me, they become intimidated by me because I actually get results. Hard to believe story, back in 2012 one of mystery from vh1s show the pickup artist comes to my city and sees me with a hooters girl that I was fucking and with hot women on different nights. The guy realizes I’m the charming funny guy who gets hot girls and try’s to recruit me. I end up meeting several Venusian arts coaches,RSD coaches, and several of afc Adams people also. A majority of the guys I meet are unsocially savvy and lack high value personalities(not read as confidence). I find it rediculous that because I get results, other guys who I meet can’t keep up due to lacking instinct and get offended because I show them what actually works. They must not want to excel and often use theory that they read as a pigeon hole for arguments which only leads to logical fallacies in understanding.

 

[trashKENNUT]

P.a.p,

He was implying that in some instances it’s ok to go grind girls you don’t know, where as a socially savvy person would understand that if you don’t know the girl it’s socially unacceptable to touch unless she’s interested and comfortable with you.

Please point this out. I don't think he makes that point. I be here to clear it up. I don't think he needs me to do this because i don't believe he makes this point as specific. This is me wanting to share more data points.

His sexually escalation tactic gets him burned because it’s unsavvy. I’ve been good with women and understand the premise behind their behavior, so I can understand things from their POV.

This is assuming.

Everyone can say their tactic is great. Hey, if yours is great, why bash his in vague form? If you want to bash someone in his house, firstly, don't do that. Secondly, give concrete and/or objective you heading.

That's why you need to clear the first point (on top).

when guys who don’t naturally do well with women communicate with me, they become intimidated by me because I actually get results. H

Okay.

majority of the guys I meet are unsocially savvy and lack high value personalities(not read as confidence). I find it rediculous that because I get results,

I heard the story of RSD instructors or other company instructors where they are unsocially savvy. But Hector's mindspace and mine is alike similar. I don't think he's unsocially savvy, far from it.

They must not want to excel and often use theory that they read as a pigeon hole for arguments which only leads to logical fallacies in understanding.

What is it about Hector's info that makes you conclude that he is creating logical fallacies?

Is it something that he says in a specific video
and then the next one suddenly has a different data point
that makes you conclude he is bullshitting?

I really want to know. This is not a frame battle, or to fuck you up.

Zac

 

[Chase]

Which part of this post is 'wrong'?

Tell me which of these statements (which are the opposite of the five bullets I lay out in the linked post you have issue with) is the one (or ones) you endorse:

• 1. Making yourself attractive is not important to attracting high quality women

• 2. Being dazzled and amazed by beauty is the surest path to getting a hot girl

• 3. Learning from people who do well with the women you like is a waste of time

• 4. Being familiar with the kind of women you'd like to date harms your chances with them

• 5. Taking action to get the women you want to get prevents you from getting them

Please do not resort to ad hominem attacks. "You're defensive", "you're immature", "you don't get laid", "you're autistic", "you have no game", "you're insecure." These are 12-year-old debate tactics. Name-calling damages your credibility. Going up against a poster with dozens of lay reports and photos of the women he's slept with posted, when nobody knows who you are or whether you're really a 45-year-old cat lady angrily typing at her machine in soiled underwear, then claiming that Hector does not get laid but you do, damages your credibility. Using these things do not help your claims that you have more social sense than the posters here, or that you have "better game" or "get laid more" with "higher quality women."

If you can respond in a measured, specific way that makes sense to the average person reading your content, please do. Perhaps you have great, worthwhile things to share that will be useful to guys. On the other hand, if you can't restrain yourself from vague, sweeping dismissals and inane accusations... that might be fine on Reddit or Tumblr. Here, I'll just ban you.

First and only warning... since IME guys who come on swinging for the top dogs from Day 1 usually aren't compatible with posting on a forum. But just in case you can put a damper on the blanket dismissals and dumb accusations and make an actual argument instead, here's your one chance.

What's it gonna be?

Chase

 

[P.a.p]

P.a.p,

He was implying that in some instances it’s ok to go grind girls you don’t know, where as a socially savvy person would understand that if you don’t know the girl it’s socially unacceptable to touch unless she’s interested and comfortable with you.

Please point this out. I don't think he makes that point. I be here to clear it up. I don't think he needs me to do this because i don't believe he makes this point as specific. This is me wanting to share more data points.

His sexually escalation tactic gets him burned because it’s unsavvy. I’ve been good with women and understand the premise behind their behavior, so I can understand things from their POV.

This is assuming.

Everyone can say their tactic is great. Hey, if yours is great, why bash his in vague form? If you want to bash someone in his house, firstly, don't do that. Secondly, give concrete and/or objective you heading.

That's why you need to clear the first point (on top).

when guys who don’t naturally do well with women communicate with me, they become intimidated by me because I actually get results. H

Okay.

majority of the guys I meet are unsocially savvy and lack high value personalities(not read as confidence). I find it rediculous that because I get results,

I heard the story of RSD instructors or other company instructors where they are unsocially savvy. But Hector's mindspace and mine is alike similar. I don't think he's unsocially savvy, far from it.

They must not want to excel and often use theory that they read as a pigeon hole for arguments which only leads to logical fallacies in understanding.

What is it about Hector's info that makes you conclude that he is creating logical fallacies?

Is it something that he says in a specific video
and then the next one suddenly has a different data point
that makes you conclude he is bullshitting?

I really want to know. This is not a frame battle, or to fuck you up.

Zac

His justifications come from what he has read, thus his response is filtered through it. Watch the link that I posted to the video, he try’s and justifies socially unacceptable behavior and it’s really that simple. don’t see why I should take pity on guys who don’t have instinct like I do. I could easily make fun of hector for his odd behavior, but then he would wine and say I’m trolling. Just saying zac, there’s a reason I distanced myself from the community a while back. It becomes super annoying when guys ask me questions like “how did you do that? I didn’t read that in a book.” Then they try and argue using theory which is poorly construed in some aspects. It becomes a huge waste of time. Have you ever read the game by Neil Strauss? Several things seemed right but a lot of the book seemed odd. Did you get the same read when you read it?

@chase

so what your asking me to do is explain my approach and my understanding to why it works? No problem and can do. Because I’m witty my approach probably won’t work for all, but certain things I do can be beneficial. As for jeopardizing credibility, hector did that the moment he tried to justify inappropriate behavior. I’ve already explained the errors in his thinking and he continues to justify his reasoning through what he’s read which isn’t entirely spot on. Honestly I don’t see why I should explain, because then I’m gonna hear the same old shit of justifying rational based of theory read which isn’t based in common sense which naturals like me have and what most people study pickup lack. Like I said my approach is largely based off humor based game and not every one is witty like Me, a large reason I do well with hot girls is because of that perceived social value of being the funny cool guy. So that being said, would you still like a detailed write up? It may not benefit everyone.

1. what exactly do you mean by that? a high value man will be natural attractive to women, confidence is not always key because its not necessarily emotionally affective where as women often crave emotional stimulation. its the reason why when a guy who is not funny and trys to compete with a class clown type the guy who is humorous will often come out on top in the scenario because that guy is more emotionally stimulating to the girl.

2. putting hot girls on pedestal is what most guys do and often shower them with praise which ends up back firing because they get used to it. Reason I avoid complementing attractive women and go in by being a smart ass instead, which allows me to drop her defenses by being the quipster.

3. not necessarily a waste of time chase, however different people have different value which is why some people excel with specific types of women. women, like men have different traits they find appealing and thats the reason why you can't win always no matter how good you are with women.

4. yet again, context matters. if your implying that you should befriend those girls just do well with them thats iffy. once a girl is to comfortable with a guy, sometimes they go out of their way to avoid relationships with them because they value the guy as a friend. but I agree your game should be tailored to your type. game is much more your approach to how she sees herself, take for instance a girl who is slightly above average may act like a 10 based off her perceived value of herself where as most guys could agree that she is not that hot but she perceives herself to be miss America quality. these types I make a conscious effort to avoid because I've tailored my game to dealing with women who's perceived value is equavelent to their external value i.e. looks. generally once a bitch shield is thrown up the best way to drop it is by quipping the girl with a smart ass remark.

5. don't see why that would be the case, read #4.

@ hector if the girl is not remotely showing interest in you and is comfortable, don't touch the girl. her thoughts go like this "who is this guy and why is he touching me?". you saying that its context related based on how she reacts is incorrect. the general rule of thumb is directly in sentence one. So creepiness is not fully in the eye of the beholder. point 2, outward sexual comments often women find to be uncomfortable. better to go indirect sexually to pump her arousal levels.its perfectly fine to make comments once your about to get with the girl like "I'm gonna fuck you so hard it hurts" on the basis you've gotten her clothes off.

@chase I don't care about post count, I care about accurate information. Just because someone post a lot does not speak to their results. if I see something wrong in advice I'm never slow to correct misguided information.I personally think you guys are threatened by naturals, we don't follow the theory that is but get results anyways. so lets look at the big picture here, people often don't get upset for lies they get upset because of the truth or validity of the truth. he cried to you, because he was upset plain and simple. I get results not following pickup advice, what benefit is it to me to help other guys with women, when I'm beyond that point? I have everything I do broken down to a science, seems like me sticking around is more beneficial to you all where I don't technically benefit from the scenario. Basically means I'm not gonna care what you do, one way or the other.also I know I'm capable of getting results, my results are purely my results and I know what I'm capable of what someone does with their time is their business which basically equates to if he gets results good for him; its irrelevant to me.

 

[P.a.p]

P.a.p,

He was implying that in some instances it’s ok to go grind girls you don’t know, where as a socially savvy person would understand that if you don’t know the girl it’s socially unacceptable to touch unless she’s interested and comfortable with you.

Please point this out. I don't think he makes that point. I be here to clear it up. I don't think he needs me to do this because i don't believe he makes this point as specific. This is me wanting to share more data points.

His sexually escalation tactic gets him burned because it’s unsavvy. I’ve been good with women and understand the premise behind their behavior, so I can understand things from their POV.

This is assuming.

Everyone can say their tactic is great. Hey, if yours is great, why bash his in vague form? If you want to bash someone in his house, firstly, don't do that. Secondly, give concrete and/or objective you heading.

That's why you need to clear the first point (on top).

when guys who don’t naturally do well with women communicate with me, they become intimidated by me because I actually get results. H

Okay.

majority of the guys I meet are unsocially savvy and lack high value personalities(not read as confidence). I find it rediculous that because I get results,

I heard the story of RSD instructors or other company instructors where they are unsocially savvy. But Hector's mindspace and mine is alike similar. I don't think he's unsocially savvy, far from it.

They must not want to excel and often use theory that they read as a pigeon hole for arguments which only leads to logical fallacies in understanding.

What is it about Hector's info that makes you conclude that he is creating logical fallacies?

Is it something that he says in a specific video
and then the next one suddenly has a different data point
that makes you conclude he is bullshitting?

I really want to know. This is not a frame battle, or to fuck you up.

Zac

"this is assuming part" women don't respond well to outwardly sexually stuff and find it creepy when men do that. hector concludes in the video that its individual specific or in the eye of the beholder hence false conclusion= if a girl is not interested in you and comfortable with you then its a guy violating her personal space, hence as why they don't like it. I don't say "everything he says is bullshit" which apparently it has been assumed that, I outlined specific things he touched in the linked video and explained what was right vs what was misguided. I spent time with RSD instructors in field because I met one of mysteries adjunct instructors who had ties to RSD and AFC Adam who was once the top ranked pickup artist at the time. got asked to help be a approach coach by Adam Lyons and personally watched him and his 2 lead instructors hit on girls a nightclub, Adam Lyons is good at flash game aka making it count when someone is watching but saw him get blown out a lot. His coach AlexPua sucks and isn't remotely charming. Luke his other coach is try hard and and when he came out to my city PAID A STRIPPER TO FUCK. Try hard generally gets you blown out and the girls I see him with are not remotely attractive. The only guy who is good from RSD is JMLV where as the rest of their instructors suck. I've personally watch Tyler and Jeff hit on girls and they suck. met 2 of Vince kelvins guys when they came to a lair meeting in my city and they are weird as fuck. don't trust everything you read or watch online. I've personally met a lot of those guys face to face, was only impressed by one.

 

[Chase]

Ah, I see. You ran into some mainstream PUA guys and assumed Girls Chase is Venusian Arts / RSD 2.0.

I also ran into those guys once upon a time in a private party in San Diego, and I also thought they were pretty off kilter. Some of the practitioners of Mystery Method do have real game, but Mystery also attracted a lot of oddball types who were in it for a sort of cult-of-personality deal or just in it to climb the ranks and be known as 'Master Pick Up Artists' and gurus among the PUA crowd.

I railed against flash game here a lot in the early days when it the big common thing everybody was doing. Seems like it's died down a bit.

Have heard mixed things about Tyler/Owen. Don't know him personally and have never met him. Don't want to pass along hearsay.

Vince Kelvin... that guy is just. His heart may be in the right place. But that is one zany-looking dude.

Onto your main remarks:

hector did that the moment he tried to justify inappropriate behavior

Think you meant the 'grind up on a girl on the dance floor' bit.

Not sure whether you mean 'inappropriate' as in "this tactic doesn't work" or 'inappropriate' as in "how unmannerly!" I get the sense it's some combination of the two. I didn't see the context he's recommending 'surprise grinding' in. Doesn't sound like something I'd normally recommend, but Hector also gets away with all sorts of things I traditionally tell guys "That's too forward, too risqué, too direct" etc. Just his style. I'm sure you've come across guys who did wellwith very different approaches to yours.

That said, if something is hard to pull off, I would also hope Hector is cautioning that when recommending it to new guys (Hector?).

same old shit of justifying rational based of theory read which isn’t based in common sense which naturals like me have and what most people study pickup lack

You're new here, right? Not familiar with Girls Chase, I take it?

Hector was a natural already when he found Girls Chase. Franco was a natural. Many of our more senior members here (like J.J. Jones, or Landlord, or Lao Che... many others) are naturals.

My primary mentor was a supremely talented natural. I spent the majority of my seduction learning curve with naturals. My game's always been heavily humor-based flirtation, which made me a natural fit with my natural friends, most of whom have sexual humor based styles. I specifically avoided hanging out with 'pick up artists' who learned their stuff from forums and books when I was learning because most of them were not actually very good with girls and lacked a lot of natural social intuition.

You are not on the Venusian Arts forum.

==

Doesn't sound like you disagree with anything in my "hot girls" post. Or if you do, I'm not sure what.

Girls want high value men. Check. Maybe you disagree a man can improve his value? Guessing you weren't born cracking jokes. You probably spent a few years in junior high or high school honing your wit like I did. The point of point one in that post is "you need to develop yourself into a man high value women want to be around."

I specifically hate most talk about confidence and think it's generally a useless, empty term (as most people use it). Sounds like we agree there.

Devaluing beauty, check. Same thing I'm saying in point #2. We're in agreement there. I like compliments for non-physical qualities, like hair or dress, if I can tell I'm a little much for her. Being a smartass, sure yeah. We tell guys to be smartasses on here endlessly. Tease her, flirt with her, be a challenge to her, be playful, be just enough of a dick she feels challenged but not so much she storms off. Maintain attainability. So far we're in good shape.

Different people do well with different types of women, 100% agreed (e.g., "You and Your Game Attract a Certain Kind of Girl"), and actually one of the few points I feel like even most guys advising other guys on women do not get. And certainly something almost no ordinary guy gets. Can you change what type you attract? I can, and have. The "Guide to Hot Girls" post was mainly written for a subset of guys on this forum who are desperately trying to get a specific type of girl they were struggling to get. It's one of the harder things to do, IMO... change what type is attracted to you. But it's doable, albeit it's work.

#4, of course I'm not telling guys to befriend girls to sleep with them! That goes against everything I teach on this website. I am talking to guys who suck with X specific type of girl, for whom X girl is a total alien they cannot understand, and telling them "Make friends with a couple of X girls, get to know what they're like, get comfortable with them, get familiar with them. Then when you meet new X girls in the future, instead of being these weird aliens you are trying and failing to get, they are women who are familiar to you because they are like those female friends you had, and sleeping with them is not like trying to climb Kilimanjaro." Of course the best is if the guy has ex-girlfriends/lovers/FWBs/ONSes with girls like that, but if he's so hard up he can't even get that, one step at a time. Get him at least familiar with the type of girl first. Then start getting him laid with that type of girl. Get him to the point where he runs into X type of girl with nothing but warm feelings and familiarity and knowing how to talk to and deal with that type of girl. Then he's in good shape.

Your discussion of perceived value vs. actual value... sure, yeah. We're in agreement on that too. Check.

My guess is you misinterpreted the post, reading it through some kind of "These guys are Mystery Method Venusian Arts PUA weirdos. So what they mean here must be some autistic inverse of what they're writing" or something like that.

So far as I can tell from what you've written here, you hold the exact same views I do.

I personally think you guys are threatened by naturals, we don't follow the theory that is but get results anyways.

As noted above... GC is filled with guys who are or were trained by naturals. A lot of the top guys on the forum are naturals. We're the inheritor to the first company to coin the phrase 'natural game' (theAppraoch), which called itself that because it was started by a supremely gifted natural.

All my favorite guys from mASF, the old pickup forum, were naturals. We have a few long posts about their (humor-based) game (A2daMIR, Grand Master).

I go out of my way to look for contributors to the site who are naturals... the only thing that stops me having more of them on staff is they can't always relate to new guys who have zero social sense or no ability to make natural conversation with a woman, and they can't always teach what they know how to do. I'm way more skeptical of "I'm a PUA!" guys who want to contribute to the site than guys who are naturals.

This entire organization is about as close as you can get of a shrine to the natural approach to getting women... because in my opinion it's the most effective approach to getting women. Also because PUAs all tend to cluster around the same boring styles. Whereas each natural has a different, original, and usually fascinating style all his own, often pulling off stuff you've never seen anyone else pull off before. Has always just seemed cool to me.

I get results not following pickup advice, what benefit is it to me to help other guys with women, when I'm beyond that point? I have everything I do broken down to a science, seems like me sticking around is more beneficial to you all where I don't technically benefit from the scenario.

Well, that's too bad. Seemed like you could've been on a similar wavelength to this place, and might've had a cool time here and been a cool dude to have around too, once we got past the misunderstandings phase.

Anyway, if you'd like to hang around, and can do so without trying to take on the whole world at once, you're more than welcome. I suspect most of the initial stuff was you mistaking us for RSD (which I know a few of the guys here like, so I don't want to rag on them too much. Never really been my cup of tea though).

Chase

 

[P.a.p]

ok, chase based off your response ill be happy to explain myself. I assumed that because I ran into the wrong dudes was liking a wrong filtration through theory. my system is easy to follow.


step one: the girl throws the bitch shield, I use a funny comment to redicule her or bust on here to drop her defenses.
step two: I entertain the girl with funny stories to keep her on a emotional high.
step 3: lastly i become implicit sexually to seal the deal.


I can explain my process and the psychological aspects behind it and why it works. Problem with my style of game is it requires an innate sense of humor to pull off, hence why I said I may not be highly beneficial to the others on this board. take for instance I use entertainment to get hooters girls and strippers, I can explain sexual escalation and how to go indirect to push womens arousal levels through the roof to block lmr somewhat in a post if you would like. I banged a hooters girl a few months back and can post my tactics and how I get girls to qualify sexually in a manner that is proper without creeping them out. is that of interest? I generally get bad reads from those companies and guys I meet off of my cities lair when I was in the community, hence why I distanced myself from them. you know mike s. who was mysteries ex pupil? I used to spend a lot of time with that due and he would constantly refute method with me and because it wasn't something he read in a book, despite him copying other naturals that we both knew because his primary issue was lacking substance. don't get me wrong 2 of the guys in the lair that I was part of managed to get past 100 but they were all read tactics and not much personality wise, so I distanced myself from them. Another issue is that I'm prone to strategic thinking which I can break down different environments and how to work them, but my tactics come off very PUA like because of the way I think. I figured out the concept of social proof by watching women and understanding that they are prone to being more observant than men and can work them indirectly to get the girl to come to me in the club. is that the type of information that you all are looking for? if so ill post in the advanced section on hired gun game, as I don't spend much time dealing with regular girls anymore because they don't do it for me.

 

[Chase]

P.a.p-

Problem with my style of game is it requires an innate sense of humor to pull off, hence why I said I may not be highly beneficial to the others on this board.

Sure, that's fine. We have new guys who are a little awkward and don't have much of a sense of humor here, but plenty of guys with more 'regular' or better levels of social development, guys with good senses of humor, etc.

This is a huge site. We get over a million visitors a month. Huge broad swath of the population... and a lot of the stuff we post already includes or is based around humor. Humor is great, and welcome.

take for instance I use entertainment to get hooters girls and strippers, I can explain sexual escalation and how to go indirect to push womens arousal levels through the roof to block lmr somewhat in a post if you would like. I banged a hooters girl a few months back and can post my tactics and how I get girls to qualify sexually in a manner that is proper without creeping them out. is that of interest?

I always love reading new stuff from anyone who sounds like he knows what he's talking about. And those sound like interesting topics that'd be great fits here. I'm sure a lot of other guys here would be interested too.

I generally get bad reads from those companies and guys I meet off of my cities lair when I was in the community, hence why I distanced myself from them. you know mike s. who was mysteries ex pupil? I used to spend a lot of time with that due and he would constantly refute method with me and because it wasn't something he read in a book, despite him copying other naturals that we both knew because his primary issue was lacking substance. don't get me wrong 2 of the guys in the lair that I was part of managed to get past 100 but they were all read tactics and not much personality wise, so I distanced myself from them.

Yeah... you do get a lot of PUA guys who subscribe to dogma. And then they want to argue with anyone from a different belief set. They say their own dogma is the correct dogma and anything that goes against that dogma is wrong.

I don't like dogmatic thinking. I've always found it both annoying and limiting. And we try very hard to discourage it here.

I figured out the concept of social proof by watching women and understanding that they are prone to being more observant than men and can work them indirectly to get the girl to come to me in the club. is that the type of information that you all are looking for?

We love that kind of stuff here. For sure.

if so ill post in the advanced section on hired gun game, as I don't spend much time dealing with regular girls anymore because they don't do it for me.

Cool, that sounds real good! We could use more stuff on hired gun game here.

Chase

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Okay, bridges have been built. Good to see. Chase is a master at that. Something I still need to learn. I like fighting. Need to read some more Sun Tzu.

@ hector if the girl is not remotely showing interest in you and is comfortable, don't touch the girl. her thoughts go like this "who is this guy and why is he touching me?". you saying that its context related based on how she reacts is incorrect. the general rule of thumb is directly in sentence one. So creepiness is not fully in the eye of the beholder. point 2, outward sexual comments often women find to be uncomfortable. better to go indirect sexually to pump her arousal levels.its perfectly fine to make comments once your about to get with the girl like "I'm gonna fuck you so hard it hurts" on the basis you've gotten her clothes off.

Are you still referring to the "walk up onto a girl and grind onto her" comment? If so, I laid out clearly in that video that it's not really a thing I see anymore, because of cultural shifts (#metoo, FRA's, etc), but used to do it/have seen it done and it's a high-risk/high-reward kind of move.

Or were you referring to something else?

I don't know where I said to simply walk up to girls and start touching them. Can you specifically point to where I said this?

you saying that its context related based on how she reacts is incorrect

Although I will disagree with this. I've done some pretty risky shit and it works out. Like Chase said, I wouldn't recommend it to most guys and I hold off teaching that to anyone who isn't socially calibrated enough to pull it off, but to be clear, I'm not going around touching random girls. The extent of initial "don't know how she will respond" touching is when I open a girl by touching her on the elbow, or I'll touch the side of her waist in a club and lean in and whisper into her ear.

To my memory, I've had 0 bad reaction to this, other than some initial surprise of "woah, oh hey!" but then they turn to see me and realize I'm not a weirdo and we talk. I use high-risk stuff but also know how to defuse it.

Creepiness is not an objective thing. My girlfriend example was prime. If you walk up to your girlfriend on the street randomly, or a girl you're sleeping with, and you pinch her butt - she's going to turn around like "WOAH" and then smile when she sees it's YOU. Like I pointed out in the video many times, it's WHO is doing it and HOW they do it. If you're out with your girlfriend, go to the bathroom, then come back to her and grab her, she's going to turn and be happy to see you.

However, if a girl is not showing any interest *once we're already talking," then I probably won't touch her no. However, if thing are ambiguous, well I'm going to tap her elbow while I'm talking to her or something small to see how she reacts. If she reacts badly, then she would have never been into me, most likely. I screen hard.

outward sexual comments often women find to be uncomfortable

I'm not surprised you hold this view. Almost every high-lay-count natural I know is blown away by how direct I am, and then they see it work and are like "Oh...shit, that's different." If you want to hang around this forum and exchange ideas, and it will take time for you to build up your credibility, you're going to need to see that everyone has different styles and that you're not a mega-guru. You could have 500 lays and it wouldn't matter. Ran into a few naturals with 500+ lay counts and my skill/consistency is higher, because of a variety of factors. I know of only a handful of guys I'd say without a doubt are my superiors in skill, but that doesn't mean I won't try to understand your viewpoint, but the same must be given on your end - my style is not normal, I've heard through the grapevine of maybe 1 or 2 guys with similar styles. But it works. Chase has seen me pull in-field (I went ultra-direct). Franco has seen me pull in-field in San Diego (and I went ULTRA direct with her, asking her if she's ever had sex in a bathroom, she asked if i had a condom, etc). Alek/Pablo, other writers, have seen my in-field, and ask anyone from my college - I was the most prolific guy in my college.

Your reality is not the only reality. But Chase is a master at bridge-building so glad to see that realities are being transferred (I lack that patience..perhaps a symptom of my age - 26 - but it's more temperament. I'm a hot-blooded guy. Good for seduction, tricky for relationships/friendships).

better to go indirect sexually to pump her arousal levels.its perfectly fine to make comments once your about to get with the girl like "I'm gonna fuck you so hard it hurts" on the basis you've gotten her clothes off.

Ah, I see. I'm very touchy and talk about sex in general very often before going "I'm going to fuck your mouth." Perhaps you thought I'm walking up to girls and the first thing out of my mouth is "I'm gonna rip up your pussy."

I think we agree more than you think, but for some reason, you were looking for blood. Your response will tell me where you're at now. A quick note - I like to fight and don't take it too personally, so if you're cool to reconcile this beef, I am, too.

Hector