The problem with dating apps (and how to solve it)

[ulrich]

Pre Tinder/Bumble/Hinge days I agree, obviously not the case now. That doesn't mean you won't get these types of girls online, but to say cold approach won't meet these types of girls is being disingenuous. Broken, fat, ugly crazy women also have to go outside

Yeah, but the difference is that in person you can filter a lot based on vibe and looks before approaching.

Fat, ugly and some types of crazy most times you don’t even bother saying hi while in online often you only find out on the first date after investing some time working them.

You also meet more girls with boyfriends but the pool of options is better looking to begin with.

Pros and cons.

This is where I disagree with you. If you have an "advanced" profile you can meet hot girls online and have a higher volume set than just cold approaching. The time/effort spent cold approaching is linear but the time spent swiping is exponential. E.g You approach 30 women a day, maybe get 10 numbers, of those maybe 5 meet up and of those 3 you sleep with. Vs online you swipe 100 women, you match 30 women, meet up with 15 of those etc etc.

Are these real field tested numbers?
Because my experience does not match them at all.

30 matchs out of a 100 swipes?? I’d say 5-10 at top level.
50% meetup ratio?? I’d say 20% in a good day.

Maybe I just don’t have a top profile, I don’t know.

I remember watching a “top MPUA” from Australia (I forgot his name) who recorded a series about getting girls online during the pandemic in Mexico City… the guy was getting 2-3 dates daily buuuuut he was swiping for hours a day with 3 different cellphones and most girls he showed were 6-7s.
No doubts he was getting laid like crazy… just saying it was time intensive and loose in quality.

 

[Beck Bass]

Pre Tinder/Bumble/Hinge days I agree, obviously not the case now. That doesn't mean you won't get these types of girls online, but to say cold approach won't meet these types of girls is being disingenuous. Broken, fat, ugly crazy women also have to go outside



No worries all good.


This is where I disagree with you. If you have an "advanced" profile you can meet hot girls online and have a higher volume set than just cold approaching. The time/effort spent cold approaching is linear but the time spent swiping is exponential. E.g You approach 30 women a day, maybe get 10 numbers, of those maybe 5 meet up and of those 3 you sleep with. Vs online you swipe 100 women, you match 30 women, meet up with 15 of those etc etc.


Ironic isn't it?


The problem is that most profiles are plain fucking trash. Lets say someone has a SMV of 7, but most of the time guys will have a profile that makes them look like a 3-4 out of 10. If Karea puts his profile here everyone can evaluate and see why he is not getting results.

Not only that, if we factor in social media like Instagram as well, if you have a good instagram it can help with cold approach a lot. I personally think instagram is the dating "LinkedIn" of the world, even with a poor cold approach if you can get her instagram and through your stories/posts demonstrate HV it is possible to turn things around.


Like I said, online dating is not a quick fix nor is it an easy way to get laid. The only easy way is to pay to play.

Just because you get a match doesn't mean she will reply, just because she replies doesn't mean she will meet up, just because she meets up doesn't mean you will get laid etc etc. Obviously, meeting/cold approaching in person, women can feel your vibe/energy and the other factors of yourself instead of a 2D image and text.

Man, if you know what you're doing online, all good for you, I just think for most guys, online isn't the way, but I might be wrong. @Regal Tiger does execelent online, as far as I know, so it's deff possible. Also I see a bunch of people eventually switching from online to other forms of gamr, because they see how limiting it can be. Heck, even I wanna go from my night game into day game, but it's not that easy, the difference is night and day, you see? lol
For online, that's like real world vs virtual/digital world. But if you wanna get laid and get started quick, and know what you are doing, online can be great, it's just a different form of game.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Man, if you know what you're doing online, all good for you, I just think for most guys, online isn't the way, but I might be wrong. @Regal Tiger does execelent online, as far as I know, so it's deff possible. Also I see a bunch of people eventually switching from online to other forms of gamr, because they see how limiting it can be. Heck, even I wanna go from my night game into day game, but it's not that easy, the difference is night and day, you see? lol
For online, that's like real world vs virtual/digital world. But if you wanna get laid and get started quick, and know what you are doing, online can be great, it's just a different form of game.

That's how I got my start! And I have absolutely perfected my system so I love online game and definitely prefer it


For reference/transparence: I'm a solid 7 but I've learned how to photograph extremely well. Probably look like an online 8 or even a 9. Women I get from it range from what most people would consider a 6-8. Occasional 9

So yeah, for full transparency I get mostly 'cute' girls. Though sometimes I get one that's my personal type that I consider hot and sometimes get a girl that other guys would consider 'hot'. Hope that makes sense

 

[whyumad?]

For reference/transparence: I'm a solid 7 but I've learned how to photograph extremely well. Probably look like an online 8 or even a 9. Women I get from it range from what most people would consider a 6-8. Occasional 9

Exactly my point. Although I think most people on this forum don't like him I think Playing With Fire (Alex) gives good advice on what not to do in your photos and what you can do in your photos.

There is an overhead to getting a "good" profile that requires more effort than just making a cold approach. Being in shape, demonstrating high value and going to cool places to take photos is something that the average male needs to purposely go out of their day to do. In addition, lighting, photo positioning, the naturalness of how the photo is taken is also something that you must do well. But I think this effort is worthwhile as you can skewer this by also having photos for instagram so kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Yeah, but the difference is that in person you can filter a lot based on vibe and looks before approaching.

Yes to some extent, not too sure about vibe as you need to speak and interact with her first to know that and so also applies to online game

Fat, ugly and some types of crazy most times you don’t even bother saying hi while in online often you only find out on the first date after investing some time working them.

True, but if you can get multiple dates set up from online then maybe worth this downside.

I remember watching a “top MPUA” from Australia (I forgot his name) who recorded a series about getting girls online during the pandemic in Mexico City… the guy was getting 2-3 dates daily buuuuut he was swiping for hours a day with 3 different cellphones and most girls he showed were 6-7s.
No doubts he was getting laid like crazy… just saying it was time intensive and loose in quality.

Yes Bradicus. He got cancelled for literally having 5-10 phones all with online profiles spamming the same girls again and again. Probably a sex addict and not something I recommend. But with just 1 phone I think you won't run into this issue.

Heck, even I wanna go from my night game into day game, but it's not that easy, the difference is night and day, you see? lol
For online, that's like real world vs virtual/digital world. But if you wanna get laid and get started quick, and know what you are doing, online can be great, it's just a different form of game.

All parts of game matters. I think doing all forms like cold approach, night game, social circle, and online is the way to go. Putting yourself out there to meet as many women possible will increase your chances of getting a result.

The reason why I made my first reply in this post is because Karea's solution was to delete the apps. I don't think this is a solution but just an escape/denial of reality. That is why I made this post for clarification.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Reason #258 not to game on a screen in 2022:

Enjoy the Decline

Females struck with a mind virus. @EnjoyTheD

t.me

 

[TomInHo]

This is very well written and correct. I know a friend who is a professional at text game, but what I have noticed is the amount of effort that he's putting in is beyond my understanding.. also I would like to mention that sometimes he leaves the message on read and then thinks of what to say which is quite insane to think of in my opinion.. it usually takes him between 1 or 2 weeks of texting the girl , but the sex is always guaranteed on the first date.. so the question is, was it worth all the effort put in?

Your friend is very inefficient with his online dating then

You can hook up with lots of women very fast like within 1-3 days or even within hours of matching with them

Its actually not the norm for me to text a girl for 1-2 weeks before going on date

I wouldn't say it is to be fair since its a lot of headache just to get laid..

False

it’s one of the easiest ways to get laid and rack up tons of numbers

But only if you know what you’re doing

But I think it would be ideal to use tinder as something on the side and hope to get lucky (less effort possible)

Luck is for people with low skill

Also its worth mentioning that dating coach Corey Wayne always said that dating apps is a waste of time, and the way he would do it would be to simply make a huge bio explaining everything about himself and what he's looking for, and as soon as he would get a match, he would ask the girl for a phone call to schedule a date

This advice is outdated and not how you do online dating properly

And tbh I would not take the advice or care about opinions of the people here that don’t get results with online dating

The truth is you can fuck beautiful women from all types of game

Online, social, day, night, whatever

When I see someone talk crap about a certain avenue of sourcing women all that person is telling me is that they probably suck at it

And it’s not wise to take advice from people that suck at something you’re interested in improving

just my 2c

 

[rockstar]

I also don't agree with a lot of the online dating hate. Dating apps are very scalable, and you can a volume of exposure that's just a lot bigger than what's achievable through cold approach. Sure, there are downsides (you can't use a lot your best pickup/game tools), but I feel like I've seen more guys have greater success from online than cold approach. Online is usually more efficient for me, but also much less fun.

I agree with the idea that people who say apps don't work, just aren't that good at them. Putting together photos to sell yourself is a much different skill from cold approach. I think a lot of the "quality women aren't online" discourse is cope as well. You can find a huge range of women on dating apps, and many of my favorite women I've met were actually from apps. I always expected that my daygame quality would overtake online eventually, but it still hasn't really done that (social circle was a little different story)

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

The problem with the apps is that they have become a sausagefest. 80 to 90% of profiles on Tinder are dudes. I think the apps can solve for this by making it tougher for men to get on the app in the first place so maybe more apps like Raya going mainstream. If guys are not willing to pay a a significant amount, they don't get to be on the app. If I had to make a comparison of what Tinder is, it is like that local neighborhood sports bar that lets anyone in. Eventually, you have a ton of guys and a handful of women who have all the power at the bar.

We need more exclusive nightclub version of the apps that limit how many men can get in. I finally get it now, why nightclub venues that are high end tend to make it tough for most men to get in. If they let any dude in, they be like Tinder in real life, 90% dudes and 10% women. The fix is by putting out apps that make it easy for women to get on, just like nightclubs make it easy for any girl to get in. Then make it so guys either need like five female friends to refer them to an app or just have to pay a huge upfront fee. You weed out the broke guys who are spamming the DMs of these women.

As for cold approach vs online game.

Over the years, I have met a number of seducers from game groups. The ones I know who are cracking a lay count of 50 every year are using some form on online and social media and often times, exclusively both. Most guys I know who are posting serious receipts are doing so with women they met off of the apps. These aren't exceptionally handsome guys, they just have high value pics and high quality pics.

I have known a lot of pure cold approachers who only do daygame and nightgame, it is rare for me to see one that cracks a lay count of 20 in a given year. This is all in Miami though so other cities might be different.

Daygame guys are the hardest hit. I commonly hear how they go out for hours and on some days, the volume sucks. They might meet like 3 to 4 women an hour worth approaching. The rest of the time, they are just walking around in the heat hoping they approach something.

I have known guys who have done it for years and talk about how much harder cold approach has gotten in the past few years.

FWIW, I have been doing cold approach almost exclusively myself in the past few years and seen the common problems come up:

1. Volume is a massive issue, it is there on some days and on other days it absolutely sucks

2. Hours spent doing daygame sessions

3. Late nights spent doing nightgame sessions

4. Women that are attractive are usually out in massive groups where you will get cockblocked and little will happen

It is no wonder why so many guys I know who make online work just stick to that.

 

[Skills]

The problem with the apps is that they have become a sausagefest. 80 to 90% of profiles on Tinder are dudes. I think the apps can solve for this by making it tougher for men to get on the app in the first place so maybe more apps like Raya going mainstream. If guys are not willing to pay a a significant amount, they don't get to be on the app. If I had to make a comparison of what Tinder is, it is like that local neighborhood sports bar that lets anyone in. Eventually, you have a ton of guys and a handful of women who have all the power at the bar.

We need more exclusive nightclub version of the apps that limit how many men can get in. I finally get it now, why nightclub venues that are high end tend to make it tough for most men to get in. If they let any dude in, they be like Tinder in real life, 90% dudes and 10% women. The fix is by putting out apps that make it easy for women to get on, just like nightclubs make it easy for any girl to get in. Then make it so guys either need like five female friends to refer them to an app or just have to pay a huge upfront fee. You weed out the broke guys who are spamming the DMs of these women.

As for cold approach vs online game.

Over the years, I have met a number of seducers from game groups. The ones I know who are cracking a lay count of 50 every year are using some form on online and social media and often times, exclusively both. Most guys I know who are posting serious receipts are doing so with women they met off of the apps. These aren't exceptionally handsome guys, they just have high value pics and high quality pics.

I have known a lot of pure cold approachers who only do daygame and nightgame, it is rare for me to see one that cracks a lay count of 20 in a given year. This is all in Miami though so other cities might be different.

Daygame guys are the hardest hit. I commonly hear how they go out for hours and on some days, the volume sucks. They might meet like 3 to 4 women an hour worth approaching. The rest of the time, they are just walking around in the heat hoping they approach something.

I have known guys who have done it for years and talk about how much harder cold approach has gotten in the past few years.

FWIW, I have been doing cold approach almost exclusively myself in the past few years and seen the common problems come up:

1. Volume is a massive issue, it is there on some days and on other days it absolutely sucks

2. Hours spent doing daygame sessions

3. Late nights spent doing nightgame sessions

4. Women that are attractive are usually out in massive groups where you will get cockblocked and little will happen

It is no wonder why so many guys I know who make online work just stick to that.

I already explained in the 2023 review going to 2024 a lot of these points and how to go about.... I also made the point that online is not tinder, for.me personally tinder is meh...just like night game is not club space.... Tldr I explained to diversify games style like a mutual fund...all games are harder due to volume but easier due to women sexual openes when you get them...

 

[Skills]

I met a player while abroad, his instagram has the blue tick, and around 20k followers, most of them whom are fake and trashy followers, the maximum likes ive seen on his pictures is around 100 but I cant see them since he always put it on hidden since it would be embarrassing count when having such follow count.

His game is basically to cold approach, with "your very beautiful" or something like that then ask simple questions, where you from etc, and then hand them his instagram and leaves.. from there the instagram is basically doing all the talking for him, once he meets them again during the party, they would be ready to go with him home..

And I guess the same method applies with other dating apps, the goal is to get their instagram so he can prove his worth on it. cuz on tinder the girl isn't seeing anything besides a few pictures..

I believe that instagram is a strong weapon nowadays.. and will certainly start uploading more photos and videos to demonstrate HV.

Have a friend that does the same

 

[POB]

I believe that instagram is a strong weapon nowadays.. and will certainly start uploading more photos and videos to demonstrate HV.

I second this.
My cureent IG has only 60 followers, but they are 90% women and they are always commenting on my stories.
As a starter just upload 10 really cool pics of yourself doing different things.
Then start to work on your stories.
(P.S. Ig is also a character check...at least half of the women you meet will want to check your online persona for safety reasons.)

 

[Adventurer]

On the topic of online dating, AI pictures are amazing and almost a magic pill for online

With my prompting skills, a paid subscription to photoai and a few photofeeler tests, I was able to craft a profile with mixed real pictures for group pics /IA that look like me for solo pics. Girls don't notice the difference, at most I got some comments after sealing the deal. It's just crazy good.

If you're serious about online dating and don't know prompting, it's time to learn. This site has everyting you need

How to use Stable Diffusion - Stable Diffusion Art

Stable Diffusion AI is a latent diffusion model for generating AI images. The images can be photorealistic, like those captured by a camera, or artistic, as

stable-diffusion-art.com

I give it 6 months before everyone uses it or it gets banned

 

[Adventurer]

I just checked some videos about it on YouTube, and it seems too fake for my taste. Could you give us a few samples of how image 2 image look like? for example an original picture of Johnny Depp and then the 4 or 8 generated pictures of that picture ?

I will start a new topic to not derail this one

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I already explained in the 2023 review going to 2024 a lot of these points and how to go about.... I also made the point that online is not tinder, for.me personally tinder is meh...just like night game is not club space.... Tldr I explained to diversify games style like a mutual fund...all games are harder due to volume but easier due to women sexual openes when you get them...

I get what you are trying to say here but I am going by efficiency in terms of getting the lay count up, online dating is just winning so big right now. It is to a point where the guys I knew from my years of being on game chats and forums who got a photoshoot done and improved their looks are exclusively doing online. The thing is, they have dates with women who would easily be the hottest girl at most venues in some cases. A lot of these guys are effortlessly having dates with women in the 7 to 8 range so they don't even cold approach anymore.

Lots of guys like this who have mastered how to create that high-status lifestyle on the apps are opting out of the cold approach and remaining on the apps, they get 3 to 4 dates a week on average from what I have observed.

When I surveyed the guys who were going hard in 2022 and 2023, they looked back and realized that 70 to 80% of their lays were from dating apps. I just haven't met as many dudes in Miami who are solely doing daygame and nightgame these days, both cold approach, and cracking a lay count of over 50.

However, on the flip side, when I was doing great on apps my game really sucked. I was a crappy closer and had a lot of dates and no closes. I could not run an interaction in a sexual way which led to the friend zone a lot.

Having to rely on cold approach since being banned from apps has made me tighten up my game a great deal even though I get far less dates and than ever before.

 

[greenjade816]

I second this.
My cureent IG has only 60 followers, but they are 90% women and they are always commeting on my stories.
As a starter just upload 10 really cool pics of yourself doing different things.
Then start to work on your stories.
(P.S. Ig is also a character check...at least half of the women you meet will want to check your online persona for safety reasons.)

what stories do u post?

 

[POB]

what stories do u post?

Casual stuff:
- social, me dancing bachata and salsa with cute women,
- light family moments with my mom or nephews,
- gym pics after training,
Just be carefull to choose content where you are in the best light and pose possible!
IG is a fake content factory, we all know that...so you gotta be able te enhance yourself too.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

By the way, for the record. Since this thread is still going and someone said "if you don't like online dating then you must suck at it." I'm fucking outstanding at online game. You should see some of my old online game LRs. They're too raunchy, I can't even post them here on a public forum. Chase and Vision have read them.

If I can get the girl interested in my pictures, I have an extreme likelihood of meeting her, and if I can get a girl from online to meet up I have a near 100% chance of fucking her. The problem is the dynamic set up which is explained in the video below, and which I was able to take advantage of in certain situations, but not on the current apps with the current algorithms.

A friend just sent me this video. As someone who fucked a different girl from online every day for a while, I still have to concede it makes a point. Maybe precisely because I was that guy for a while, I have to concede the point.

I also have to agree that women who say they want something serious, but show their ass as their first picture, are fucking idiots. It's the equivalent of a man saying he doesn't want gold-diggers, but then his pictures are all lambos and private jets and shit.

 

[POB]

I have always been authentic and real, but it seems like the only thing im getting in return for that is girls who are looking for long term relationships where's the sluts and the DTF girls are all over a complete fake instagram profile filled with filters..

I never add chicks that I've not met somewhere else (irl or online)...adding at random requires a big following and online social proof, something you probably don't have yet.

What to avoid posting as story and do you think its a good idea to post everyday?

Post what you like, you never know what may resonate with a particular chick.
Just select the best photos, especially the ones where your face and body will be present.
BTW, fuck that shit of posting everyday...just upload when you are taking a dump or on a boring work meeting.
Life has bigger priorities.

 

[TomInHo]

By the way, for the record. Since this thread is still going and someone said "if you don't like online dating then you must suck at it."

That person was me and I still hold my stance

I have done all styles of game and see no issues with online. It’s just different

I'm fucking outstanding at online game. You should see some of my old online game LRs. They're too raunchy, I can't even post them here on a public forum. Chase and Vision have read them.

Post those LRs then. This is a forum where most of us are anonymous and I see no reason why you can’t post raunchy shit

We’re grown men that discuss things like fucking girls fast, fucking girls with BFs, fucking in unconventional places, having threesomes, harems

So I see no reason to hold back on your OLD online stories. It could be educational on what’s possible

If I can get the girl interested in my pictures, I have an extreme likelihood of meeting her

This is exaggerating the truth a bit. I know guys that look like legit models with strong game but can’t get every girl that is interested out

No matter how good you get there will be some attrition in your leads and it’s not always because of your looks or game. It can be due to things outside your control

and if I can get a girl from online to meet up I have a near 100% chance of fucking her.

Yeah that’s definitely possible. Because when you get the girl in front of you thats when the game and seduction really begins

The problem is the dynamic set up which is explained in the video below, and which I was able to take advantage of in certain situations, but not on the current apps with the current algorithms.

Aha… we’re getting to root cause

You don’t have a top profile and you’re frustrated with your current results, hence why you have this attitude towards with online dating

Btw that’s within your control because I know guys that are not models but leverage other attractive qualities in their profiles to get very attractive girls out

They may need to work a bit harder than a natural CHAD but its still possible

A friend just sent me this video. As someone who fucked a different girl from online every day for a while, I still have to concede it makes a point. Maybe precisely because I was that guy for a while, I have to concede the point.

Sure, you fucked a new girl from online everyday but from the way you’re talking it seems like that was YEARS ago

I assume that was probably even more than a decade ago

So the issue is you’re thinking about what worked for you in the past and not adjusting to the current landscape

Online dating has become way more competitive than years ago but who cares?

Why spend all this time whining and complaining when you can adapt to the current climate

And if you’re not willing to make the changes and set expectations accordingly then yes online may not be for you

But also there is a silver lining in all this

Because I have scrolled through other men’s profiles in online dating and I can say that at least 80% of men have below average profiles

- They post pictures of random shit
- Are not in shape
- Have outdated styles
- Take pictures holding a fish
- Have horrible skin
- Don’t take pictures displaying a high value lifestyle
- Use low quality grainy pictures
- Don’t know how to pose for photos
- Have horrible bios that don’t display any attractive traits or make girls curios
- If they have social media it’s not optimized for dating and turns girls off

I’m not even going to go into texting lol

I’ve had some FBs show me the profiles and messages of guys they matched with and it’s hilariously bad

These are all things that are within your control and if you put effort into your presentation you’ll be swimming in so much pussy you won’t have the time to be complaining about how horrible the current landscape is

I also have to agree that women who say they want something serious, but show their ass as their first picture, are fucking idiots. It's the equivalent of a man saying he doesn't want gold-diggers, but then his pictures are all lambos and private jets and shit.

I don’t care what women say they want or how they try to garner attention. IMO that’s a waste of valuable mental real estate

I rather focus on fucking them and picking the best ones out of the bunch to date

Also, there are tons of attractive women online that don’t show their asses and over sexualize themselves

If that’s who you find attractive then why can’t you just focus on them
Every girls you fuck is not going to be GF material. So why not have fun in the meantime with these “low value women” then you can get more serious when a “high value woman” presents herself

Hope you don’t take this the wrong way but all this whining and bitching about how the world isn’t fair needs to stop

There are solutions to problems and we can all choose to stop crying and do what’s necessary to rise to the top on dating food chain

Just my 2c

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Alright, this has been a long time coming. TominHoe added to ignore list.