Ways to transition to sex more deliberately and openly?

[raiden]

Raiden how old are you?

One of my earliest lays was actually straight up laying out my situation to an older woman online and I got lucky she was a very open minded person who liked showing me how hot it was to maintain eye contain during oral. I did not have great fundamentals at all, but she found me endearing I guess? She proposed meeting for coffee first. Normal women often need to assess safety. Straight hookups from online can be some more adventurous women, sometimes a little out there...

This woman was fine, and a great cook. She had just separated from her husband and had a rocking body (in her 40's then, but very fit). I got very lucky that I had just found GC and the adapted missionary article. She came a lot. First body convulsions I'd seen, possibly from the age taboo fantasy. I was very happy to have this experience because my next few partners were embarrassing premature ejaculation situations or just not as good sex, but I knew what it could be.

That was for sure luck, though also high volume sales lead funnel, which is always always always important. It is totally possible to fuck an ugly fat woman online if you have no sexual experience but are hotter than what she can typically get. Things feel A LOT different once you get some baseline sexual experience. I lost my virginity earlier than most, but didn't rack up partners until later. Get some early wins and it'll compound into feeling pretty good.

I'm 30 - 35. I've been reading GC and seduction materials for over 6 years now and I still haven't had much success. I haven't approached as much as many guys here but I've been on over 50 dates from online. I'm basically a textbook natural incel and I'd now like to quit 'gaming' and just settle down with any girlfriend. I might end up running a simpy or beta relationship because I've never had a girlfriend, but that would be a win for me. I've been rejected by plenty of fat women through online. I don't think that they are any easier to game than slim women (though it is easier to get them on a date).

 

[raiden]

You are a very logical dude, I can tell that from your posts here and in other threads. You are looking to find the right way to ask a woman home that will result in her being enthusiastic about sex.

What the guys have said about setting sexual frames early is good and correct and is critical for things working out later. But I want to add something here: a woman who is 'weirded out' by an escalation after she comes home, doesn't mean that she came home without sexual intentions. Nor does a woman who responds enthusiastically to an escalation mean that she came there looking for sex. Women backward rationalize all the time. If something feels great, it's serendipity. If it feels bad, it's the dude being opportunistic, and she never signed up for any of that. Or whatever.

Your escalations probably don't 'feel right' to her for some reason, probably because you're too up in your head or nervous, and that's pretty much what at least one of the women said to you when she said she wasn't comfortable.

So instead of looking to find a perfect setup for a date, maybe focus on a good escalation, which requires:

- You initiating and increasing your touch based on your sexual desire for her

- You enjoying yourself in a relaxed way - this is huge. When a woman knows sex is near she gets hyper sensitive to a dude's state of mind, because she's about to get extremely vulnerable to him. A bit of nervousness is fine, but any kind of rooted fear or negative emotion is going to send her geiger counter spinning. In fact I believe that a large part of a woman's enjoyment of sex comes from watching a man enjoying fucking her, feeling his desire moving through her. If you aren't expressing that, it's very hard to get her in a sexual state.

- You reading and responding to her signals without losing momentum - pulling back here, inching forward there, holding position, always with a relaxed vibe with your actions springing from desire and not anxiety or neediness.

Whatever my escalation process is, those few times, I felt under pressure. I know that if a woman is at your place, it's a golden opportunity and you have to see if you can hook up. I know that it's recommended to follow Chase's 10 minute rule to begin the escalation attempt within 10 minutes of getting through the door. But I also know that it's a Russian roulette situation. If I attempt to escalate and it doesn't work out, it's all over. I won't get more dates or be able to go back to how it was before, where I was a charming, attractive guy with whom she enjoys spending time. I'll likely never hear from her again. I want a way to remove the high stakes poker feel from the escalation and actually make it more fun and organic.

 

[Lover]

I'm basically a textbook natural incel and I'd now like to quit 'gaming' and just settle down with any girlfriend. I might end up running a simpy or beta relationship because I've never had a girlfriend, but that would be a win for me.

What girl would be in a relationship with a guy that would settle with any girl?

 

[StrayDog]

If I attempt to escalate and it doesn't work out, it's all over. I won't get more dates or be able to go back to how it was before, where I was a charming, attractive guy with whom she enjoys spending time.

You mean go back to the being the guy she can enjoy mostly platonic interactions with and things will probably never head in any direction that threatens that mostly platonic frame, and if something does threaten that platonic frame like an attempt for one little kiss, she will ditch like a bad habit?

You are putting yourself in this position by not hedging your bets sooner, making smaller moves towards intimacy. Setting up lover frames. And then gaining her compliance one small piece at a time. You are not giving her the opportunity to view you as anything other than platonic. Then when you actually go for what you want in one bold, yet uncalibrated move it completely shatters the false frame of being platonic. So she is cutting her loses, because she invested herself into something that wasn't real. Can you blame her?

The way you just framed the whole thing was basically you saying that you don't want to risk actually having to make a move, because you want the opportunity to keep waiting around to make a move. Just keep hanging around and maybe one day she will like you, maybe one day when you try to kiss her she will accept it. If only you wait around long enough without making a move, maybe one day she will be charmed.

I'll likely never hear from her again. I want a way to remove the high stakes poker feel from the escalation and actually make it more fun and organic.

It's always going to be high stakes poker, that's just the nature of it. But who goes into high stakes poker and just lays down their cards right away? Or doesn't hedge their bets from the beggining? You put down your ante, then you raise the stakes a little, then a little more, then some more. Once everybody has invested in the game enough to where they are ready to go all the way, and haven't just folded. That's when you reveal your hand.

You have to build up to the escalation, start small and keep building more and more. Get her invested in the idea of intimacy in smaller ways first, then keep upping the stakes. Once she is clearly invested in a major way, that's when you make your move, and it feels natural.

 

[Skills]

So, the standard methodology seems to be to invite a woman over for a night cap or a board game or a TV episode or a snack or something and, if the mood is right, start getting closer and escalating. The narrative is that the two of you happened to be alone and the force of love overcame you both and you couldn't hold back.

Is there any way to request directly without using the excuse and following the high risk escalation (high risk because if you botch the escalation, all is lost)? E.g. Suppose you've been on 2 meets with a women. You go into the 3rd meet and suggest that the two of you get your respective STD tests and meet with them 2 weeks later at (romantic isolated location) to take the next step in your relationship. Can anything like this ever work?

The reason why I'm asking is because I have poor fundamentals, and am not sexy, but I do seem to be trustworthy. So when I invite a woman round to play her a song, we get back and she actually asks me to play the song. Then she seems surprised if I want to get closer and this kills the romance. So it seems like the women are expecting the excuse (the song or the snack) to actually happen and aren't expecting anything more.

Your post is full of misunderstanding, lack of context and fiction... For example I hope you don't mention you both get your STD test, that is your telling her I am a virgin... What you are referring to is plausible deniability, which is inviting her to closing location to have sex indirectly... There are girls you can be more direct if they are highly into you and super aroused, but even then there is no point being overly direct cause is implied in the subcommunications anyways... Read this post on the subject

The difference between plausible deniability and bait and switch and when to use both.....

Alright guys, i already explain this in a thread of i Believe @Shawn but yesterday a dude in my crew face the same issue, so i will explain here for everyone, and if it happens i just can be lazy and link this post.... 1st what is plausible deniability (i kind of like this one from urban...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Skills]

Yeah I don't really know why its considered suboptimal here. I think I've kissed all my girls in public before I went home with them, except for some sugar babies (but those don't count in my book). The sugar babies didn't want to be seen in public for understandable reasons (though some were OK with it). But all my organic lays, I made out with them first.

I'm not yet a master seducer by any means, and it is not my intention to question the methods that are taught here... That said, I did pull about 25 girls home which I kissed in public. More if I count the ones I didn't end up banging.

Same here, I already beaten this subject to death is a lack of understanding of nuances...

The Complete guide to Physical game

Guys i decided to write this post cause if you are out on the field you notice social dynamics have changed a bit, we are going back to the future, in other words things are trending back to the past from clothes (baggy clothes from 90, shorts with sneaker showing socks from 80s etc...).... So...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[raiden]

What girl would be in a relationship with a guy that would settle with any girl?

But we GC reading people put on an act where we do stuff like qualifying to get around this. So if the woman knows that you'd settle with any girl, you're doing it wrong.

You mean go back to the being the guy she can enjoy mostly platonic interactions with and things will probably never head in any direction that threatens that mostly platonic frame, and if something does threaten that platonic frame like an attempt for one little kiss, she will ditch like a bad habit?

You are putting yourself in this position by not hedging your bets sooner, making smaller moves towards intimacy. Setting up lover frames. And then gaining her compliance one small piece at a time. You are not giving her the opportunity to view you as anything other than platonic. Then when you actually go for what you want in one bold, yet uncalibrated move it completely shatters the false frame of being platonic. So she is cutting her loses, because she invested herself into something that wasn't real. Can you blame her?

The way you just framed the whole thing was basically you saying that you don't want to risk actually having to make a move, because you want the opportunity to keep waiting around to make a move. Just keep hanging around and maybe one day she will like you, maybe one day when you try to kiss her she will accept it. If only you wait around long enough without making a move, maybe one day she will be charmed.

It's always going to be high stakes poker, that's just the nature of it. But who goes into high stakes poker and just lays down their cards right away? Or doesn't hedge their bets from the beggining? You put down your ante, then you raise the stakes a little, then a little more, then some more. Once everybody has invested in the game enough to where they are ready to go all the way, and haven't just folded. That's when you reveal your hand.

You have to build up to the escalation, start small and keep building more and more. Get her invested in the idea of intimacy in smaller ways first, then keep upping the stakes. Once she is clearly invested in a major way, that's when you make your make, and it feels natural.

I see. So she can interpret this as a bait and switch. Please can you give more information on how I make the small steps toward intimacy and set the correct lover frame?

 

[Will_V]

Whatever my escalation process is, those few times, I felt under pressure. I know that if a woman is at your place, it's a golden opportunity and you have to see if you can hook up. I know that it's recommended to follow Chase's 10 minute rule to begin the escalation attempt within 10 minutes of getting through the door. But I also know that it's a Russian roulette situation. If I attempt to escalate and it doesn't work out, it's all over. I won't get more dates or be able to go back to how it was before, where I was a charming, attractive guy with whom she enjoys spending time. I'll likely never hear from her again. I want a way to remove the high stakes poker feel from the escalation and actually make it more fun and organic.

I have highlighted in your comment the many parts that reveal how escalation for you is an unpleasant, anxiety-filled, rule-following experience. This is the exact opposite of what it needs to be for there to be any chance of her enjoying it.
...

Take yourself out of reality and into imagination for a second. Imagine you're with a girl who really adores you, who you vibe with easily, with whom there's no awkwardness or game playing or any of that stuff. She's lying next to you and you're both talking about whatever comes to mind and having a great time. Let's say she's super hot and you've noticed she's got beautiful long hair and a tight body and suddenly you have an overwhelming desire to have your face in that hair and your dick in that body. You want to possess her, have your way with her, wrap her around you like a warm, wet little blanket.

Your hand reaches out as if of its own accord and you slide your fingers up in her hair, which feels incredibly soft and wonderful. You shift your body closer to her, you can't stand to be even a few inches apart. You pull her in and kiss her hungrily, feeling her soft lips melt on your mouth. You grab her around the waist and pull her in, trying to feel as much of her body on you at once as you can.
...

This is what escalation is when it is springing from your desire and not a desperate need to make a move before some ticking time bomb blows the interaction. It is 'I see, I want to taste/touch/feel, I do so'. That desire is what legitimizes the whole thing, what makes it feel inevitable and irresistible for her.

When you are panicking or desperate, escalation is simply not possible. You don't have to be happy for it to work, but you cannot be anxious and inhibited. It is your ability to embody your desire, to allow it to impulsively (but calmly) move you, and to act on it as if no one is looking, that enables the transition from conversation to sex.

There is no other means to sex except through your own desire, there is no other legitimacy for sex except that you want it. It cannot be arranged by society or contractual agreement. It cannot be formulated into existence by a series of failsafe procedures. There is the moment when she's in front of you, and your eyes meet, and she waits for you - and either your desire to bend her over or your fear of failure dictates your next move.

 

[Rakehell]

Eh seems like you might be putting yourself under alot of pressure because you want it so badly and continue to come up short.

You want to tell them in plain english you want to have sex (because of this frustration) and make things simpler for you. But going about it that way will only lead to more rejection.

Imo when you lose you lose again in anything so maybe best to get your mind off it for a few weeks and reset. Harder to think clearly when everything’s riding on any one opportunity.

It’s kind of weird to me that they all take it literally in a date context. If they aren’t playing coy, could be a cop out because they weren’t feeling it due to how you went about “escalating”.

When they call you out on your “excuse” do they get up and leave, or do you call it off yourself?

 

[KJ Francis]

But we GC reading people put on an act where we do stuff like qualifying to get around this. So if the woman knows that you'd settle with any girl, you're doing it wrong.

Only temporarily ... Fake it til you make it

Do you know exponential growth year over year like $3*1.03^3 ? Your perspective will widen pretty quickly once hitting a stride, then the curve will settle into diminishing returns over time.

Your reptile brain has no way to continue when your body dies, so it's upset and luckily working to fix this problem. It has zero standards like needing literally any job scrubbing toilets or whatever is required to pay the rent.

As soon as you solve some fundamental snags and get small successes, you will QUICKLY stop feeling like a doormat with girls in charge of the game. That will help you have some standards you can afford to enforce.

Please trust and implement the advice you're getting from the more senior members... Some of these guys started unsuccessful with women and are now living incredible sex lives. This place is like being the loser in the lunch room but George Clooney has his arm around you pointing out the girl you didn't notice smiling at you. Be grateful for their wisdom and the internet. Don't give up!!!

 

[raiden]

Only temporarily ... Fake it til you make it

Do you know exponential growth year over year like $3*1.03^3 ? Your perspective will widen pretty quickly once hitting a stride, then the curve will settle into diminishing returns over time.

Your reptile brain has no way to continue when your body dies, so it's upset and luckily working to fix this problem. It has zero standards like needing literally any job scrubbing toilets or whatever is required to pay the rent.

As soon as you solve some fundamental snags and get small successes, you will QUICKLY stop feeling like a doormat with girls in charge of the game. That will help you have some standards you can afford to enforce.

Please trust and implement the advice you're getting from the more senior members... Some of these guys started unsuccessful with women and are now living incredible sex lives. This place is like being the loser in the lunch room but George Clooney has his arm around you pointing out the girl you didn't notice smiling at you. Be grateful for their wisdom and the internet. Don't give up!!!

I've been thinking this way since 2017 when I started studying this stuff and setting up dates from online. I think that it's unrealistic to expect that I'll just get successful. Well, it would have happened already right? Seems like I need to find a woman who can tolerate me and hold on to her like grim death. I'm actually fine to go on more meets without escalation but I'm scared of getting rejected for moving too slowly, and I know that it's going to be even higher stakes 8 dates in compared with 3.

 

[Chase]

I am not sure why you think you can reinvent the wheel @raiden . You want results? do what gets results from step one. Introduce sex and touch in light small ways from the beginning and build momentum from there.

This is the missing piece for sure.

Please can you give more information on how I make the small steps toward intimacy and set the correct lover frame?

Okay, question: you've been reading the site for years, and have been on 50 dates. Have you not formed a mental model of this yourself? Are you not picking up on patterns... there is no intuitive voice popping up in your head saying "I bet if I do this, she will like it"?

I have highlighted in your comment the many parts that reveal how escalation for you is an unpleasant, anxiety-filled, rule-following experience. This is the exact opposite of what it needs to be for there to be any chance of her enjoying it.

It's coming across like @raiden may be a purely mechanical thinker and not able to just go with the flow or create a smooth and enjoyable seduction intuitively. He probably needs a rule-set to follow that lays everything out for him in detailed steps. "Do this, then do that, then do the third step, then do the fourth step," etc.

His own attempts to come up with an "escalation rule-set" are in the OP and are obviously way off base (he included getting STD checks as a way to introduce sex). The thing that is probably going to be most helpful to him is some kind of highly structured game where he has a routine stack of touch and escalation moves that program the sex and touch into the seduction for him.

Chase

 

[raiden]

This is the missing piece for sure.



Okay, question: you've been reading the site for years, and have been on 50 dates. Have you not formed a mental model of this yourself? Are you not picking up on patterns... there is no intuitive voice popping up in your head saying "I bet if I do this, she will like it"?



It's coming across like @raiden may be a purely mechanical thinker and not able to just go with the flow or create a smooth and enjoyable seduction intuitively. He probably needs a rule-set to follow that lays everything out for him in detailed steps. "Do this, then do that, then do the third step, then do the fourth step," etc.

His own attempts to come up with an "escalation rule-set" are in the OP and are obviously way off base (he included getting STD checks as a way to introduce sex). The thing that is probably going to be most helpful to him is some kind of highly structured game where he has a routine stack of touch and escalation moves that program the sex and touch into the seduction for him.

Chase

I do not have a feel for it at all. I've been on dates when I've touched the arm and the small of the back and she seems to like it. I've done the traditional PUA kiss close followed by pulling back and going for a second kiss. After the kiss, I followed the PUA method of going back to conversation that involves qualifying. I saw the women enjoying this stuff but it always led to my phone number being blocked or a 'no romantic connection' text message afterwards. I've had the women laughing out loud at my jokes and asking me lots of questions about myself, and calling me interesting, and got the same texting afterwards. So I don't know how to tell if a woman actually likes it in a way that is good for me and the seduction (e.g. If I pay for her food she'd probably like it but not necessarily in a way that is good for the seduction). My explanation is that in these situations, I'm doing ok but my piss poor fundamentals ruin my chances. I could be wrong but it doesn't matter why this stuff happens anyway.

Yes I am a very mechanical thinker. I do know that the STD test stuff is not the right way to do it and even if a woman agrees to it, it would kill the passion and spontaneity. I just asked if there was a way to escalate to sex in a formal way because I'm having no success in the standard way. If there were a way to do it formally, I'd definitely want to incorporate that STD test as safety for myself and a bit of buy in! One guy on here, I think @StrayDog gave me the mechanical rule of, instead of trying to incorporate touching whenever I can, just touch to show approval or deliver a compliment and do it slowly and decisively, and end the touch after the approval or compliment is delivered. That rule definitely helped me.

 

[gameboy]

I do not have a feel for it at all. I've been on dates when I've touched the arm and the small of the back and she seems to like it. I've done the traditional PUA kiss close followed by pulling back and going for a second kiss. After the kiss, I followed the PUA method of going back to conversation that involves qualifying. I saw the women enjoying this stuff but it always led to my phone number being blocked or a 'no romantic connection' text message afterwards. I've had the women laughing out loud at my jokes and asking me lots of questions about myself, and calling me interesting, and got the same texting afterwards. So I don't know how to tell if a woman actually likes it in a way that is good for me and the seduction (e.g. If I pay for her food she'd probably like it but not necessarily in a way that is good for the seduction). My explanation is that in these situations, I'm doing ok but my piss poor fundamentals ruin my chances. I could be wrong but it doesn't matter why this stuff happens anyway.

I'm wondering what it is with your fundamentals that has girls acting like this. Is it something that is unfixable?

 

[raiden]

I'm wondering what it is with your fundamentals that has girls acting like this. Is it something that is unfixable?

For the record, my fundamentals may not be poor. I just think that they are. Well, it's the only explanation that fits to me. It's my God given fundamentals. I have an unattractive ethnicity and height. I'm probably not as classically handsome as I'd like to be. But my hairstyle, beard style (clean-shaven for me), body shape and clothing were approved by my dating coaches. My voice was approved, at least within the lessons, by a vocal coach /speech therapist.

 

[KJ Francis]

2017 when I started studying this stuff

...

hold on to her like grim death.

Couldn't have been this website

 

[KJ Francis]

He probably needs a rule-set to follow that lays everything out for him in detailed steps. "Do this, then do that, then do the third step, then do the fourth step," etc.

His own attempts to come up with an "escalation rule-set" are in the OP and are obviously way off base (he included getting STD checks as a way to introduce sex). The thing that is probably going to be most helpful to him is some kind of highly structured game where he has a routine stack of touch and escalation moves that program the sex and touch into the seduction for him.

Chase

Is this like Mystery Method letter steps (such as C1 or something like that)? I've always lacked structure. It was like repartee... rapport... Uhhh... Plausible deniability pull attempt...

https://www.jaden-fox.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/matrix-trinity-can-you-fly-that-thing1600.png

 

[StrayDog]

One guy on here, I think @StrayDog gave me the mechanical rule of, instead of trying to incorporate touching whenever I can, just touch to show approval or deliver a compliment and do it slowly and decisively, and end the touch after the approval or compliment is delivered. That rule definitely helped me.

this is the post in question, that I made for you
There was a good deal in there but I didn't really touch on sexual frames. The main point was to get you to have more fun with it, focus on getting some conversational momentum, and being a bit more strategic with your touch.

It seemed like the touching as a reward for compliance stuck out to you and got you some results in field.

I have noticed by your descriptions of dates that you tend to look at women's reactions in a somewhat surface level sort of way. For example, if she is laughing at your jokes or asking a lot of questions, you see that as a sign of interest. Which is true to some degree. Yes she is interested enough to having the convo with you, but that does not necessarily indicate she is finding you seductive or wanting to move forward with things in that sense.

This is why it is important to understand the difference between reactions vs results (@topcat really helped me with this in regards to texting) Her laughing at your joke is a reaction, it simply means she found what you said funny. You making a sexual innuendo and her agreeing with the underlying frame. That's a result.

Her asking a lot of questions, though it shows some interest, is a reaction. She is reacting to the conversation and the things you are saying. Her asking a personal question like "so what do you do for fun", you saying responding "that, kind of personal, come a bit closer and I'll tell you" (gesturing for her to lean in), and she actually leans in. That's a result.

You basically just told her to do something that leads towards more of a sense of intimacy and she complied.

The number one way to be able to gauge how invested she is in being seduced by you is to test for compliance. When you test for compliance it shows you how willing she is to go along with a move when you suggest one.

If she rejects the bid for compliance then you can calibrate from there. "okay she doesn't want to make this move, where do I adjust for here"

that's why you start small at the beginning of the date and keep building compliance. For example when you greet her for the date, you confidently and calmly tell her to bring it in for a hug. It is a reasonable gesture at the start of the date, and she will most likely happily comply as she found you attractive enough to come out with.

Then, when another reasonable moment to ask for compliance arises, you make another bid. For example, she is talking about her dog and you are like "Show me his picture, I know you have one". She has once again complied. A result.

You slowly build up compliance asks until it is reasonable to tell her to scoot closer, or suggest you two go for a walk, or whatever move you make to move the seduction forward, and eventually suggest the pull home.

Each time she complies you reward her with either a genuine compliment "you seem open minded, I like that about you" or your undivided attention for a moment, or intentional touch that is just enough to sink in, then passing. You slowly build more and more of a prescedent of this comply, reward, let things flow naturally, ask for compliance, comply, reward, let things flow naturally, ask for compliance, and so on.

This is true for when you make a subtle sexual innuendo as well, or bring up a topic with sexual undertones. If she agrees with the frame, or engages in the conversation in a way that is positive towards the seduction. That is essentially her complying with an escalation or micro-escalation. This is a result. not a reaction.

So asking for compliance will show you how invested she actually is at a given moment. You just have to start small at build, so that the compliance you are asking for is proportionate to where the momentum of the seduction is at at a given moment.

This will help you start to gauge her actual investment regardless of her reaction. Sure she just laughed at your joke, but does she happily hand you the drink menu when you say "hand me that" (said with chill, easy going tone) or does she offer resistance?

This is how you can get past the appearances of her saying one thing and doing another. Say she says she is really having fun, but won't leave for a walk with you. Well, the compliance you ask for was too big for where she was invested in that moment. So you keep hanging out and looking for compliance in small ways, and once she bites (you get a result), you build from there.

I recently had a same day lay with a gal I met at clothing store. We were hitting it off a bit and I suggested we go grab a drink (right at that moment). She said no. However, I just brushed it off, and she was still hanging out gabbing with me for a good moment longer (not yet invested in a drink, but invested enough to keep chatting, even after a failed attempt to escalate). So, after a moment of convo I looked for a smaller investment " Here help me pick out a shirt real quick". Bingo, she invested. And I kept moving from there.

If I had took her reaction to my suggestion of a drink at face value I would have thought the seduction was over because she said "no". But no was her reaction, the result was that she was still standing and talking to me. So I made another move to see what result I got. Eventually, after getting more and more investment from her in terms of small compliance, as well as her investing in some subtle sexual frames. She herself suggested we get that drink I mentioned and we bounced.

Look for results, not reactions. Test for results by testing for compliance.

"Good" reactions does not immediately mean good results, and "bad" reactions (within reason) does not always mean bad results.

But any time you ask for compliance, or escalate (even just a little), you have to go out on a limb a bit. You have to up the ante just slightly, and risk her not complying.

This is why you start small and build. Until there is enough investment and momentum for bigger bids for compliance. Gradually the conversation gets more sexual, more physical, you can suggest bigger moves. Since she has invested more and more, each next step feels natural and reasonable.


Introduce conversations with slightly sexual undertones to test for sexual compliance. Look for the results, then adjust.

 

[StrayDog]

Also @raiden I've said it a bunch before but I'll say it again. POST DETAILED, POINT BY POINT TECHNICAL BREAKDOWNS OF YOUR DATES, SO WE CAN BETTER DIAGNOSE EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE GOING WRONG. POINT BY POINT. TECHNICAL INFO. "I SAID THIS, SHE SAID THIS, I MADE THIS MOVE, SHE RESPONDED WITH THIS MOVE"

 

[Lover]

But we GC reading people put on an act where we do stuff like qualifying to get around this. So if the woman knows that you'd settle with any girl, you're doing it wrong.

What do you think will happen once you actually get into a relationship with a girl and you drop the act that you put on before? And it becomes the "simpy/beta" relationship that you mentioned?

What will the girl think of you when you go from attractive hunk to unattractive junk?