What's new

What is game exactly, and can it be used to create attraction

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 31, 2023
Messages
344
My favourite way of disqualifying myself as a bf is setting the frame that I'm in a transition point in my life and trying new things.

1. It puts her in the right frame of mind (more curious, open, and energetic)
2. It makes me come across like I'm usually dialled in (reliable), but at this particular point in life things happen to be more exploratory and up in the air (exciting/unreliable)
3. It leads into better conversation topics and she brings out more of her adventurous/spontaneous side to find commonality with me
4. It naturally leads into sexual adventure
I think I am missing something big here, because I'm also trying to present similar things, but I don't feel it obviously leads to these results. I mean I am indeed changing career trajectories, want to explore myself, and I am not sure of what I'll be doing few years down the road, so I personify all these things extremely well.

But in general, I feel that even if I talk about things along these lines I don't get any obvious reaction that they see me as a lover and not a boyfriend. If I ask them about men, they still talk about how they like their relationships to be, and they mention attractive characteristics of guys mostly under the lens of going for a relationship. I feel I have to be extra obvious with all the exploring thing and liking new experiences in order for them to realise how this is going.

Could it be that I set the right frames but I don't see it? Because I get the feeling sometimes that ok she doesn't seem to get it, I have to start talking about how I like new sexual experiences, and how I love exciting fast sex. But then it feels like I am force feeding her all this stuff, which has the opposite result.

Another issue I have, which may be connected to the previous one is how to set all these frames without coming off as a loser that they want nothing to do with. I suspect having strong fundamentals helps, then they see you as an exciting sexy guy, and since, you have nothing else to offer you just have sex. Maybe I'm just not there yet and when I become sexier all these previous issues will disappear.

That said, like the Girls Chase site recommends, I have worked on my tone, my body language, my social skills, and all my fundamentals to the point where I come across as 'classy', if nothing else. I know for a fact that women have always seen me as a guy with a lot of potential, even if not as an established guy. And that's an important characteristic even for short term relationships. Potential is exciting. Being stuck is not.

And this is exactly what I feel the goal would be. Which seems very interesting to me, because we talk about how to disqualify as a boyfriend and don't come off as provider, but in the end, as you describe here, girls absolutely love seeing this potential in you, even if you both just want sex.

Maybe this is some misunderstanding about these concepts I've had, because for me what you described is a high value male that a woman would dream of being able to tie down. So when I was reading about the idea of disqualifying from that, I was going fully the opposite way, thinking I have to present myself as someone with totally unclear future, no care about how society perceives him, fully casual and interested only in the sexual aspect of the interaction. Basically a person that you would never be seen out with, but satisfies your sexual needs.

And I think this has been my problem, because I lose all the social aspect of the interaction and go directly to the: Look, we can have amazing sex together, that's the thing I'm offering you, for the rest go find someone else.
 

bgwh

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 12, 2024
Messages
307
Well, I'm not from a high status family (though my family has connections through personal relationships to some pretty high status people). My family was also never rich, and I'm personally not a particularly financially successful guy - I'm primarily driven by meaning and the allure of experiences, not money, and discipline and consistency were never my strong suit.

All that is to say that I don't really know what it means to come across as the 'high-status, high-value guy' stereotype you see associated with women's interest on youtube these days, and objectively I guess I'm not that. I have long hair, I dress in a fairly classical style, I have facial hair, and I tell women I'm a writer (which is true, though only one of the things I do). Not the sort of thing that screams 'status quo'.

That said, like the Girls Chase site recommends, I have worked on my tone, my body language, my social skills, and all my fundamentals to the point where I come across as 'classy', if nothing else. I know for a fact that women have always seen me as a guy with a lot of potential, even if not as an established guy. And that's an important characteristic even for short term relationships. Potential is exciting. Being stuck is not.

I believe that women find me to be a paradox, where they think 'he could be X if he wanted to' but something tells them that I could never be satisfied to be X. My girlfriends always tell me hopefully that they think I could be X or Y or Z, even when they are very familiar with my worldview.

That's partly my conscious style (because I know women like the archetype of the untamed guy with social potential) and partly just the reality of my life. My family has always been somewhat eccentric, and I'm cut from that cloth. Being part of any status quo (even at the top) was never a theme growing up. My father and my grandfather are/were the sort of people who had high-status connections and were always very socially capable, and pretty good with women, but with little objective status of their own, and their own lives tended to be quite chaotic and varied (sometimes in a good way, sometimes not so much). That's the sort of path I walk.

Can women see all this? Probably. Or at least some of it. I never try to hide it. And it certainly doesn't seem to get in the way of seducing them - at least not the sort of girls I want.
Sounds good. Guess I'll just have to test back and report. I hear a lot of people saying you have to do things like go out of your way to hide success, or otherwise you get instantly slotted into husband category. Your approach is elegant, and it feels like it would override those concerns, but I guess I'll just test and see.
 

bgwh

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 12, 2024
Messages
307
I think I am missing something big here, because I'm also trying to present similar things, but I don't feel it obviously leads to these results. I mean I am indeed changing career trajectories, want to explore myself, and I am not sure of what I'll be doing few years down the road, so I personify all these things extremely well.

But in general, I feel that even if I talk about things along these lines I don't get any obvious reaction that they see me as a lover and not a boyfriend. If I ask them about men, they still talk about how they like their relationships to be, and they mention attractive characteristics of guys mostly under the lens of going for a relationship. I feel I have to be extra obvious with all the exploring thing and liking new experiences in order for them to realise how this is going.

Could it be that I set the right frames but I don't see it? Because I get the feeling sometimes that ok she doesn't seem to get it, I have to start talking about how I like new sexual experiences, and how I love exciting fast sex. But then it feels like I am force feeding her all this stuff, which has the opposite result.

Another issue I have, which may be connected to the previous one is how to set all these frames without coming off as a loser that they want nothing to do with. I suspect having strong fundamentals helps, then they see you as an exciting sexy guy, and since, you have nothing else to offer you just have sex. Maybe I'm just not there yet and when I become sexier all these previous issues will disappear.



And this is exactly what I feel the goal would be. Which seems very interesting to me, because we talk about how to disqualify as a boyfriend and don't come off as provider, but in the end, as you describe here, girls absolutely love seeing this potential in you, even if you both just want sex.

Maybe this is some misunderstanding about these concepts I've had, because for me what you described is a high value male that a woman would dream of being able to tie down. So when I was reading about the idea of disqualifying from that, I was going fully the opposite way, thinking I have to present myself as someone with totally unclear future, no care about how society perceives him, fully casual and interested only in the sexual aspect of the interaction. Basically a person that you would never be seen out with, but satisfies your sexual needs.

And I think this has been my problem, because I lose all the social aspect of the interaction and go directly to the: Look, we can have amazing sex together, that's the thing I'm offering you, for the rest go find someone else.
The way I took it (because of my reference experiences) is more about trying new things in your personal and sex life, not career transition.

I noticed what happened when I told girls I installed tinder because I think I want to go through an experimentation phase.

Or for example when I asked a female friend if she could advise me on how I can tell if a girl is going through her fun experimentation phase because I'm going to be doing that myself and would like to identify girls with a similar mindset of phase of life.

Ive even told female friends about how I meet hot girls in stores because I'm looking for new adventures and things to try.

I can see how their perception of me shifts as I say this stuff.
 
Last edited:

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 31, 2023
Messages
344
The way I took it (because of my reference experiences) is more about personal transition, not career transition.

I noticed what happened when I told girls I installed tinder because I think I want to go through an experimentation phase. Or for example when I asked a female friend if she advise me on how I can tell if a girl is going through her fun experimentation phase because I'm going to be doing that for that myself and would like to identify girls with a similar mindset of phase of life.
Interesting, my idea was that by mentioning transitions and experimentation in other areas of life you imply the sexual experimentation as well, but maybe it’s not that obvious.

I guess the reason I haven’t really done what you describe so directly is because I’ve felt that they will think: Ok, another guy who just looks for sex, next!

Maybe I feel I’m not sexy enough to support it. However who knows, it could be that I’m selling myself short, and more women than I think would be interested in sexual relationships with me.
 

bgwh

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 12, 2024
Messages
307
Interesting, my idea was that by mentioning transitions and experimentation in other areas of life you imply the sexual experimentation as well, but maybe it’s not that obvious.

I guess the reason I haven’t really done what you describe so directly is because I’ve felt that they will think: Ok, another guy who just looks for sex, next!

Maybe I feel I’m not sexy enough to support it. However who knows, it could be that I’m selling myself short, and more women than I think would be interested in sexual relationships with me.
Well yeah, you imply it. So for example I don't say "I installed tinder to bang a bunch of chicks". Tinder is a hookup app, so the name itself implies thing.

Telling them I'm charming random girls with cold approach kind of implies playerness, and then you also throw in "new stuff", "experimenting", "adventures". They know what that means. It doesn't mean I'm the provider looking for someone to provide for.

The "how can I recognize girls into that adventoruous phase" is a bit direct, but still not "hey, how do I identify girls who are DTF?" And I think I always did it with previous lighter dating (or male-female) related topics, then transitioned to it.
 

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
1,927
I think I am missing something big here, because I'm also trying to present similar things, but I don't feel it obviously leads to these results. I mean I am indeed changing career trajectories, want to explore myself, and I am not sure of what I'll be doing few years down the road, so I personify all these things extremely well.

But in general, I feel that even if I talk about things along these lines I don't get any obvious reaction that they see me as a lover and not a boyfriend. If I ask them about men, they still talk about how they like their relationships to be, and they mention attractive characteristics of guys mostly under the lens of going for a relationship. I feel I have to be extra obvious with all the exploring thing and liking new experiences in order for them to realise how this is going.

Could it be that I set the right frames but I don't see it? Because I get the feeling sometimes that ok she doesn't seem to get it, I have to start talking about how I like new sexual experiences, and how I love exciting fast sex. But then it feels like I am force feeding her all this stuff, which has the opposite result.

From your reports (and I've read most of them) it seems to me that you simply don't embody and express the person you want to be.

Remember, she's not responding to the fact that you're changing course in life and exploring new things, she's responding to how that makes you feel. Does it excite you? Does it make you feel free and happy? Does it fill up your senses with possibilities? You still have to express, in your emotions and body language, the other 95% of the frame that you set with your words. It's not something you can just make up on the spot. A person's real emotions effuse out of them like a vapor without regard for their intentions, and it either smells good or it smells bad.

It seems to me, from what you write, that you feel internally as if you are struggling and somewhat lost in life. Perhaps you also feel many other things, but what is coming through to her is your internal state of tension and frustration, which robs your emotions of power and affect when it's time to express yourself.

The way I see things - and maybe some other guys feel differently, maybe it goes against the idea that game is just some technical thing you learn and put out regardless of your internal state - but I don't think anyone can spend very long being someone they're not, at least not me.

For me, game is 50% seducing myself, and 50% seducing her. If I'm not enjoying myself already, if I'm not at peace with myself and who I am, or if I'm stuck in my head because the present moment is not pleasant enough for me to want to be there, I can't succeed. It doesn't work. All the worst experiences I've had in seduction, that horrible, cold feeling of grind, and the most unpleasant rejections, have been when I thought I would just ignore the fact that my mind is in the gutter, and act like everything is fine.

That doesn't mean you have to be on cloud nine all the time, but you have to be able to stay within a sort of garden inside your own mind, where you are able to live in the moment, project your attention and your expressions outward, and smell the roses. Because if we aren't offering looks, money, or status, we are offering to share with her the world that we experience. And it has to be a good one.

Another issue I have, which may be connected to the previous one is how to set all these frames without coming off as a loser that they want nothing to do with. I suspect having strong fundamentals helps, then they see you as an exciting sexy guy, and since, you have nothing else to offer you just have sex. Maybe I'm just not there yet and when I become sexier all these previous issues will disappear.

Yes, I strongly suggest to work on your fundamentals, I think you are being neglectful of it. That's one of the great things about Girls Chase, the emphasis on fundamentals and having a strong and powerful seductive base. If the base is not there, a few words won't help.

Sounds good. Guess I'll just have to test back and report. I hear a lot of people saying you have to do things like go out of your way to hide success, or otherwise you get instantly slotted into husband category. Your approach is elegant, and it feels like it would override those concerns, but I guess I'll just test and see.

I've always believed you should never try to work against your own identity. Every guy (and this goes back to the fundamental point that attraction is not a rare commodity) every guy has an archetype, an identity, that a lot of women desire. He's more close to that archetype than all the other archetypes, but he isn't able to present it in an exciting way, or with the right frames. To succeed, he needs to find out how to present the archetype, not simply how to present some universal generalized attractive identity.

The reason is that when you internally feel at one with your archetype, your expression is at its most powerful, you are happiest with yourself, you are congruent, and you are exceptionally attractive to girls who are particularly attracted to that archetype. The same way that game is not about creating attraction, neither is it about creating an archetype from scratch. It's about learning how to channel your archetype in a sexually evocative and stimulating way, learning how to tune down the boring parts and tune up the exciting parts, and how to make girls see a side of it that turns them on.

That's why some guys succeed being arty and moody and seducing her with his internal world, other guys succeed by being social and 'alpha', other guys succeed by being witty and giving her an enjoyable experience with him as a 'third party observer of life'.

That's what makes the difference, in my opinion, between seduction making you feel like a weird chameleon, and it making you feel like the more you do it, the closer you get to the person you always felt that you could become. Disqualifying is not about becoming something else entirely, it's about making that archetype attractive in a transitory context.
 

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 31, 2023
Messages
344
It seems to me, from what you write, that you feel internally as if you are struggling and somewhat lost in life. Perhaps you also feel many other things, but what is coming through to her is your internal state of tension and frustration, which robs your emotions of power and affect when it's time to express yourself.
No it's true that I feel that. The interesting thing is that I thought this was the perfect boyfriend disqualifier. That this guy is totally lost, has nothing else to offer me, so it's just about sex. So I wasn't even trying to change it that much, since I felt that by getting more focused and excited about the future, I would have girls really liking me due to that and wanting to hang out and have relationships.

I guess I lived most of my life in this paradigm of being the great guy who does things in his life and that is a perfect partner but not really exciting. So I thought that ok throw everything away, and now they have no reason to want you as a partner, there is nothing to offer to them. But then you end up like a total loser, without the right fundamentals.

For me, game is 50% seducing myself, and 50% seducing her. If I'm not enjoying myself already, if I'm not at peace with myself and who I am, or if I'm stuck in my head because the present moment is not pleasant enough for me to want to be there, I can't succeed. It doesn't work. All the worst experiences I've had in seduction, that horrible, cold feeling of grind, and the most unpleasant rejections, have been when I thought I would just ignore the fact that my mind is in the gutter, and act like everything is fine.
Yeah that's totally my experience as well. Even if I know how to do something well on paper, I can feel that what really makes or breaks it is the way I express it, and if I don't embody the desired state, it's extremely difficult to technically emulate it.
That doesn't mean you have to be on cloud nine all the time, but you have to be able to stay within a sort of garden inside your own mind, where you are able to live in the moment, project your attention and your expressions outward, and smell the roses. Because if we aren't offering looks, money, or status, we are offering to share with her the world that we experience. And it has to be a good one.
This is beautifully true.
Yes, I strongly suggest to work on your fundamentals, I think you are being neglectful of it. That's one of the great things about Girls Chase, the emphasis on fundamentals and having a strong and powerful seductive base. If the base is not there, a few words won't help.
I had this mindset that fundamentals will do nothing until I can at least do some basic things seduction wise. Like why would the girl care you can dress well, have a nice body or good posture, if you cannot be playful, set the right frames and move the interaction forward. You may get some initial attraction, but it won't materialise to anything. So I decided to focus on them more after I had some basic stuff down, and knew I could at least get some success.

That said you can really work on them in parallel, and I do feel I am at a place that I do some basic things already and I should work more on them in order to make everything more effective in general. In the end, it's also the case, that some fundamentals help in ways that you don't see. For example a healthy body is not just nice to look at, but also gives you more energy and helps with this positive approach towards life and the future.
 

Atlas IV

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
May 21, 2023
Messages
245
The guys who spout “you can’t generate attraction in women” and that “you can only get women who are already attracted!” Are missing a very big point…

It’s not hard to be someone that women find attractive. I don’t fully agree that you can’t generate “attraction” with a women who didn’t initially feel it but we will leave that aside for a moment.

It’s not hard to improve your looks and fundamentals to the point where most women will find you “attractive.” The problem is that men thinks her finding you attractive is the same as her wanting to fuck you. This is confusing male thinking with female thunking.

Women will use your looks (how fit you are and how your dressed and posture), and combine it with your behaviors and actions (do you look confident, do you hold eye contact, sexual facial expressions, etc) to determine if you are attractive. This is subconscious for her.

The worse your physical looks the more you need to make up for it with attractive behaviors.

But, most men, with some work, will be initially considered attractive ENOUGH by most women that they won’t initially write you off based on your attractiveness alone. This is called meeting her “attraction threshold.”

Time and time again it’s only when they open their mouths and display bad game (via being weird, doing dumb shit, being uncalibrated, sending bad vibes, etc) that women will then consider you unattractive.

Seduction is where you take their initial attraction and turn it into romantic and/or sexual desire for you.

Game is the process of carrying out seduction. How quickly, efficiently, and effectively can you transform her attraction into genuine romantic and/or sexual desire?


So when people say that “game doesn’t work” it tells me they don’t understand the nature of attraction, or what seduction and game really are.

When people say “game only works if she finds you attractive” it tells me they don’t understand that women are ATTRACTED to dozens and dozens of men they see a day. They think that ATTRACTION is the goal and that it is hard to create.

So why aren’t women sleeping with a ton more guys than they do if they become ATTRACTED to dozens every day?

Lots of reasons but for our purposes the big one is that very few of these men turns her attraction into genuine desire. They lack a process to do so. This process is called “game.”

Actually working on your fundamentals will improve your looks and behaviors to a point where you are “attractive enough” to the vast majority of women. Your game is then the process of taking that initial attraction and turning it into burning desire so she wants to sleep with you.

If she finds you highly initially attractive, it may take less “game” to bridge the gap between Attraction and Desire.

If she doesn’t find you all that initially attractive it may take a lot more game.

Of course there are other factors such as how horny she is, if she’s actively looking for a man to fuck, if she’s taken and committed to someone already, etc.

There is also some stuff we could cover here about and how you can get her to fuck you even without attraction. @Teevester has written some stuff on that before and I won’t rehash it here.

What if based on your observable looks and behaviors she has zero attraction for you? Can “game” turn that 0 attraction into genuine burning desire?

Sometimes simply the act of approaching her in a confident manner can give you enough “points” to push her perception of you over that “attractive threshold” in her mind.

And what if you approach indirectly? Initially maybe she had zero attraction for you but you approached her in such a way that pinged her curiosity. Then you performed a cold read and bought your self some more time by “hooking her “ to show her some more attractive behaviors and qualities. Sometimes this becomes enough to push you over that “attraction threshold.” Remember, for women it’s not all about physical looks.

I could go on and on here but time is short. I’ll make a full post with more concise thoughts on the subject.
@Chase, I haven't read through this whole thread yet but this post right here from @Warped Mindless is absolutely on point. It would be great to see a full article on this subject of Attraction vs Desire because I think it's a very important distinction that MANY guys are missing these days (since most seem to be equivilating game with "LooksMaxxing").
 

Warped Mindless

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
488
@Chase, I haven't read through this whole thread yet but this post right here from @Warped Mindless is absolutely on point. It would be great to see a full article on this subject of Attraction vs Desire because I think it's a very important distinction that MANY guys are missing these days (since most seem to be equivilating game with "LooksMaxxing").
Thank you! And I already wrote it a couple days ago lol

 

James Cruse

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
106
@Chase, I haven't read through this whole thread yet but this post right here from @Warped Mindless is absolutely on point. It would be great to see a full article on this subject of Attraction vs Desire because I think it's a very important distinction that MANY guys are missing these days (since most seem to be equivilating game with "LooksMaxxing").

I wrote about this subject on the discord a few weeks back and of course, this was re-written here by Warped.

Here is my expanded article of what I wrote on the discord a few weeks ago regarding the relationship and the differences between Attraction & Seduction.

Differences & Relationship between Seduction & “Attraction” & Sex itself
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers
Top