@orkie123,
Your ability to explain things is incredible, this was extremely helpful.
Glad to hear that explanation was a help.
Hopefully not to derail the thread but I have a few follow up questions on frames:
1) When people set frames you disagree with, do you always need to engage with them?
For example, if a girl says "I would never date a Trump supporter". I hardly care about politics but I also don't agree with such a statement. I get the urge to say something along the lines of "Personally, unless they were extreme about their political views, I care more about common goals and girls who have a fun, energetic vibe then who they vote for. If you met Mr Perfect for you that makes you feel butterflies in your stomach all the time, would you really care if he votes for Donald Trump as long as he isn't some crazy extremist?"
But I've found even statements like that get certain girls angry. "Yes, if he supports Trump he is a woman hating blah blah blah". So lately I go with "haha that's wild, by the way did you know that #Change topic#. This avoids the risk of an unhealthy debate, but at same time, I'm not sure if I want to be with a girl who has such blank statements and will stand her ground without good justification. It also feels like she has won the frame and I've lost masculinity points.
I'm a big fan of "
agree and amplify" for women spouting off various inane/pointless opinions (you know the old saying: "Opinions are like assholes: everybody's got 'em.").
HER: I would never date a Trump supporter.
YOU: [over the top tone] I hear they all have 1" dicks!
HER: [laughs] Really.
YOU: Yep. I also heard they shoot illegal immigrants on sight.
HER: [laughs]That's not true!
YOU: It totally is. Anyhow... [change topic]
Once you get to the point where the girl is arguing with you and saying, "Come on, they're not THAT bad!" or else she is playing along with it and agreeing with obviously absurd, outlandish statements, you are out of "share a bunch of stupid opinions" territory and back into flirtation again.
(making fun of someone's inane position is you superficially taking their side while at a deeper layer poking fun at them. People realize this subconsciously even if they don't realize what you are doing consciously, which is why it pulls it back into flirtation and teasing again -- because by agreeing & amplifying you are, in fact, teasing her on her silly statements)
P.S. You can 100% use this stuff even if you are the thing the chick is inveighing against. If you're joking around that Trump supporters have 1" dicks and shoot illegals on sight, and then it comes out later in actual serious conversation that you are a Trump supporter, it just makes you look like even more of a boss that you can sit there unruffled and poke fun at a woman's inane ideas about people "like you" and not feel the need to start arguing or declaring "But wait, I am that!" etc.
Anyway, if a girl tells me "Pick up artists are so sleazy" I will typically respond with something like "I hear they all live in their mothers' basements and bang chicks who look like Quasimodo" with a totally straight face so she won't know if I'm kidding or serious.
2) How to set casual frames when she is looking for a relationship?
Even when girls say they are not looking for one, their words and actions often make it seem like they do. I can say things that explain how casual relationships can be amazing for both people. How society judges girls unfairly for wanting sex. But sometimes, she will even agree with what I'm saying but rather than joining my frame, she kind of just separates the two.
She realises I'm not what she is looking for and mentally moves on. Now, if this is genuine, then it's a good thing. I don't want to convert 100% relationship girls. But reality is, most of these girls would then go on something casual with someone who was more successful in setting the right casual frame. I don't get where I'm going wrong
This is predominantly about actions much more so than it is what words you say.
These two articles are relevant here:
There's something in a normal relationship called the "honeymoon period." The honeymoon period is the period in the relationship where both parties are blissful and neither one feels the other can do any wrong and everything about one another seems special and amazing and great. Your girl thinks...
www.girlschase.com
I've fielded a number of comments and questions from guys over the years on how to start a relationship off right with a new girl they've just started seeing. After all, you've used all the material on this site on how to turn yourself into a smooth, edgy, sexy man; and you've learned everything...
www.girlschase.com
If you are having girls drop you because you aren't getting serious but then move on to date other guys in casual relationships, that can have one of a few different causes:
- You are treating them too much like serious girlfriends. Seeing them too often, building too deep a connection, letting them sleep over, meeting their friends or having them meet yours, doing stuff in public together where you are acting like a couple, etc. Your words say "Let's keep it casual" but your actions say "This is getting serious" and the girl cannot handle the cognitive dissonance and bails for a guy able to keep it more straightforward for her.
- You are not getting the casual lover job done. A man is worth keeping around as an FWB if he is really good at scratching her itches. i.e., he fucks the stuffing out of her and makes her cum like a champ. If you're fucking the daylights out of her, she is usually going to be VERY conflicted about leaving no matter WHAT the relationship frame is. If your sexual performance is lacking, you can sometimes keep FWBs around for a while just by being a really cool, chill guy who they like hanging out with, especially if their friends are pretty lame or they don't have a lot of friends right now. But really, as FWB, you have ONE job, and that is banging her well. Make sure that part is in place.
- The FWB lifecycle ran its course and they moved to the next guy. If your FWBs are lasting 3-4 months before they move on, then there's a good chance you are not doing anything wrong at all and these relationships are simply running their course. The usual FWB lifecycle is 3-4 months, at which point if it does not turn serious the girl will bail and try the next guy. You will see guys online (and I have had friends doing this) talking about having FWBs for a year or more, but these are special cases: high sex drive avoidant attachment style women who maintain multiple ongoing FWBs and eschew committed relationships, for instance. In other cases they are guys dating chicks much lower SMV than them who stick around for the moon shot of hoping to get really lucky and end up in an LTR with this otherwise out-of-their-leagues guy.
Some guys like setting verbal FWB frames at the outset, like, "Let's not put any labels or pressure or rules or anything on this. But it'd be cool to continue hanging out after this sometimes." I haven't really liked doing this a whole lot traditionally but women are getting more autistic and retarded these days so it's kind of getting more important to verbally spell it out for them.
You can drop various frames throughout, like that you are very busy or that you don't tolerate drama, which tell women in no uncertain terms, "I'm not interested in investing too much in you."
But ultimately you set far more palpable frames through your actions than you do through your words.
Act like an FWB, fuck her stuffing out when you see her, and your FWBs should stick around at least till the 3-month mark, and longer if they lack options, or lack options of your caliber, or are avoidant attachment style.
Chase
