When waiters, vendors or staff give your girl all the attention and semi ignore you?

[DarkKnight]

Still too much energy for my taste. I honestly wouldn’t give a shit but maybe it’s a personality thing

Yeah I suspect it is indeed personality thing. Just look at how we all wildly react differently. Personally I like to deal with it and then disregard it.

To each their own

 

[Will_V]

It is not a battle yet Will, just some clueless vendor who gets jolted by one remark of Karea. These guys are on auto pilot. Also competition or not being ignored for minutes when YOU are the paying customer is ridicilous

Maybe in this case that's what happened and the guy was clueless and awkward, but there are guys who know how to do it right, in a way that from the outside looks completely cool but leaves you feeling totally ignored. And what they want to do is for you to react and get belligerent so that they can charmingly pat you on the head with a little bit of attention before going back to what they were doing.

The same way that the best way to deal with a guy trying to talk to a girl you're seducing is to barely acknowledge him and focus on the girl and her attention, I think it works here too, even more so - you already have her, he's not interrupting, so there's even less reason to do anything to acknowledge him at all.

I don't know how much respect a customer service rep has a duty to give you, some people are classy and know what their goal is (to have you as a repeat customer) and others don't seem to give a crap. Not my job to correct them.

 

[Skills]

Yeah I suspect it is indeed personality thing. Just look at how we all wildly react differently. Personally I like to deal with it and then disregard it.

To each their own

seduction angle is really not to care, but if the waiter is blatantly ignoring like you are asking do you have the red wine, and the dude heard you and is like mrs. a lady of your class should get this wine you would love this, and do shit like that like couple of times, then yea i can see how the dude is totally kind of disrespecting you and is not about the girl anymore....

 

[DarkKnight]

Not my job to correct them.

I dont see it as a job, Chase had an article about this somewhere that the modern way to deal with things is disregarding, voting with your money and such it adressed this exactly. He argued something along the line of modern man being too passive my memory is a bit hazy about it by I know it was exactly about this

If I am paying somewhere I simply demand basic respect and disregarding me for entire minutes and talking to my girl is not the way to go. Ofcourse he can try to (not likely) do this:

And what they want to do is for you to react and get belligerent so that they can charmingly pat you on the head with a little bit of attention before going back to what they were doing.

but even then I got my answer ready. It is not belligerent at all by the way when a waiter makes major faux pas like this. It has a bit to do with self confidence as well, knowing you are up to the task to handle what is potentially coming to you.

I personally do not see this as a huge deal which needs to be wildly emotional. But yeah, I would adress it, I generally do when something wrong like this happens and more often than not it shifts circumstances in my favor instead of "blowing up". You need to posess the right frame.

 

[Will_V]

I dont see it as a job, Chase had an article about this somewhere that the modern way to deal with things is disregarding, voting with your money and such it adressed this exactly. He argued something along the line of modern man being too passive my memory is a bit hazy about it by I know it was exactly about this

Sounds interesting. However I think the old adage of 'when in rome, do as romans do' applies. The same thing that makes you look strong and dominant in one place can make you look clueless in another.

As far as modern man being too passive, I'd prefer to mount an opposition to that in situations that give me a much bigger payoff.

If I am paying somewhere I simply demand basic respect and disregarding me for entire minutes and talking to my girl is not the way to go. Ofcourse he can try to (not likely) do this:

but even then I got my answer ready. It is not belligerent at all by the way when a waiter makes major faux pas like this. It has a bit to do with self confidence as well, knowing you are up to the task to handle what is potentially coming to you.

I personally do not see this as a huge deal which needs to be wildly emotional. But yeah, I would adress it, I generally do when something wrong like this happens and more often than not it shifts circumstances in my favor instead of "blowing up". You need to posess the right frame.

Well if it works for you then great! But when I think about these things I always try to exaggerate the situation and see what the result is. Imagine if you were James Bond or George Clooney and you felt the need to put a waiter in their place for not giving you enough attention? I prefer that my presence, like my reputation, precedes me, and if it doesn't, I'd rather correct that than engage in correcting someone whose opinion means very little to me.

 

[DarkKnight]

Well we are not George Clooney or James Bond. And this is not about desiring respect from a waiter, this is about him doing his job, properly and not annoy me or in this case Karea, again the paying customer.

Also nothing to do with in Rome being like the Romans, the waiter is breaking rules commonly accepted in the developed world, if anything else the waiter is not being the Roman.

Will at this point we are just disagreeing to disagree with eachother so I will leave it at this because my aim was helping Karea. I tend to see little sense in it when convoluted discussions like this start . Well talk later hopefully on more common ground.

 

[Will_V]

Well we are not George Clooney or James Bond. And this is not about desiring respect from a waiter, this is about him doing his job, properly and not annoy me or in this case Karea, again the paying customer.

Also nothing to do with in Rome being like the Romans, the waiter is breaking rules commonly accepted in the developed world, if anything else the waiter is not being the Roman.

Will at this point we are just disagreeing to disagree with eachother so I will leave it at this because my aim was helping Karea. I tend to see little sense in it when convoluted discussions like this start . Well talk later hopefully on more common ground.

I think these discussions are good, brings out different points of view and hopefully everyone learns something

 

[Chase]

@Karea Ricardus D.,

Doesn't personally bother me. I view it as the guy undermining his own frame. This is not the type of guy I care too much about getting respect from, unless I specifically need it from him.

If you think of a hierarchy of people, you've got the powerful dudes at top, then the beautiful women, then the low status dudes who are all kind of bumping around in a haze of only vague status awareness pursuing things in a more instinctual, groping manner. A shrewd guy knows if there are powerful dudes around he needs to pay them heed. If he's too low self-control and gets sucked in by a beautiful woman's charms I know he's lower status. The gal I'm with can toy with him if she wants (have him tell her his life story, etc., all while he just stands out in space hovering around) and I know he's not a threat. He's unable to acknowledge or respond to the dominant male in the situation. I'm locked in; he isn't. I'm chill and have her, while he's fawning over her, gushing to her. Etc.

The only time a guy like this would be a threat would be if he skillfully handled you as well and actually took leadership of the frame, getting the girl to comply with him while neutralizing you. He'd need to actually engage with you enough to impose a frame there though, not be getting attention-sucked by the girl.

I prefer letting the woman deal with service people if that dynamic appears, unless it's a hot girl servicewoman . If the service guy wants to get sucked in by her, great. She can make all the requests, deal with everything, etc. I can lounge back like a king while she does the administration and he provides the services. Works perfect for me! If he's going to show me from his behavior that he is not a high value guy, I just don't have a lot of motivation to deal with him.

If I need to talk to someone specifically who is not paying attention (say I want a meal made a certain way, or have some instructions I want followed to the letter, or want to ask some questions about the restaurant or the area and I don't want to trust the girl to nail all my points perfectly), here is what I do to make sure I'm commanding the attention of a server or whoever I want to command attention of:

1. Wave at the guy and end the wave by motioning back to yourself (attention getter --> self-point).
   
   
2. Lean in, to show you are being attentive and subcommunicate that you expect the same.
   
   
3. Very strong, laser-focused eye contact with a "serious" smile (as opposed to a friendly/open one).
   
   
4. Once he's paying close attention, communicate what you need his attention for, "Hey, I've got a question for you, man. Let me get your take on this." If he's a bit far away you may also be at the same time beckoning him over with a few fingers.
   
   
5. If he looks away, you stop talking, just continue to stare at him but with a still-smiling-yet-somewhat-less-patient expression, and wait for him to look back. When he looks back, you continue. Rinse and repeat.
   
   
6. Once you're finished and don't need his attention, thank him, lean back, optionally gesture for him to go, and in essence 'release' him so he is free to continue fawning over your girl if he so chooses to.

I only do this if there's something I genuinely need from the guy, or if he's hovering around so long drooling over the girl to the point of being annoying about it and I want to make it extra clear what the pecking order is here (by having him focus on me -- which is compliance for him; after all, he wants to ogle my girl, not focus on me -- and move closer to me, also complying; then release him back to go ogle again once done with him).

But yeah, generally, I think of the woman I am with as my secretary. I don't want to be bothered with details too much. I'd rather let the woman deal with the service people most of the time. If some guy is captivated by her he's just a low status guy not minding the hierarchy. The woman and I both know that. It is ALWAYS more valuable to make a connection with a high value guy (may provide all kinds of value you can't even predict yet) than it is to hit on the high value guy's girl in front of him (you won't get her)... any guy who doesn't realize that is in scarcity. The guy, in the back of his head, surely knows this too. You don't get anywhere ignoring the guy she is with, unless she really hates that guy or she wears the pants.

It might be an adaptive thing. A desperate guy probably stands a better chance of hooking up with a girl by always focusing on the girl, and peeling away a few chicks mad at their boyfriends or who wear the pants, than he does acknowledging the guy, which isn't going to get him anything with women at all unless he's willing to out-frame his customers, etc.

Either way, he's just a scavenger sniffing around for loose table scraps when he's behaving this way. This is a "pick your battles" type of situation.

You won't be able to get scavengers to obey polite rules of etiquette. Those are for high value people to follow.

The only thing you can do with scavengers is let your woman handle them herself while you ignore them, or if they are really bugging you then pull them into your frame, make sure they understand who's boss, and let them go again, dominance hierarchy fresh in their minds, back to their scavenging, albeit more warily this time.

Chase

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Interesting how many of you say to just let this stand. Personally I'm with @Skills and @DarkKnight , I still don't think this is acceptable.

Also, many of your responses came from the viewpoint of "the waiter is miscalibrated and low value" (especially Chase's)... that's maybe half the situations.

The other half is high value guys basically trying to flirt in front of me. And with a certain (rare) kind of girl, this happens a lot, not a one-off.

So let me ask you this: where do you draw the line? He clearly wants her, this is coming from a place of him desiring her sexually. How much do you let him get away with then?

1. Just doing his job describing the menu, but only talking to her while he does it?
2. Describing the menu while adding small talk, and only talking to her while he does it?
3. Describing the menu while adding small talk and flirtatiousness, and only talking to her while he does it?
4. Describing the menu while adding small talk and a time bridge (inviting her to some thing)?

Like where do you draw the line?

I say nip it in the bud. It's disrespectful to the max at point 1, if you let it go on it can morph into 2, 3 and 4 in front of your eyes while you're being unreactive. I've always disagreed with "never showing jealousy" because the alpha marks his territory.

I don't lord it over waiters by the way, but I take the lead so I tell my girl which chair to sit in and then I address the waiter. I'm very friendly with them and tip well, I don't treat them as subservients. But yeah I'm not gonna let them hit on my girl.

@Skills how would you troll him?
@DarkKnight you said you'd address it right away, not a couple of minutes in - how would you do that?

 

[TomInHo]

Also, many of your responses came from the viewpoint of "the waiter is miscalibrated and low value" (especially Chase's)... that's maybe half the situations.

The other half is high value guys basically trying to flirt in front of me. And with a certain (rare) kind of girl, this happens a lot, not a one-off.

Aren’t you talking about a waiter though? Wouldn’t consider that a High Value Guy to worry about

So let me ask you this: where do you draw the line? He clearly wants her, this is coming from a place of him desiring her sexually. How much do you let him get away with then?

The man has desires and you cannot control that or his attraction but let’s see here…

1. Just doing his job describing the menu, but only talking to her while he does it?

Wouldn’t care

2. Describing the menu while adding small talk, and only talking to her while he does it?

Still wouldn’t care

3. Describing the menu while adding small talk and flirtatiousness, and only talking to her while he does it?

Still wouldn’t care. But if he’s taking too long I would interrupt him so I can place my order then let them get back to it

4. Describing the menu while adding small talk and a time bridge (inviting her to some thing)?

If a waiter could take her from me then she was never with me in the first place. Would see it as a blessing and would wonder how I got with a woman that’s so daft

Because let’s say he does use a time bridge and they exchange numbers. I would realize I have been treating a booty call like a Queen so it was my mistake

No mores dates for her and strictly dickly going forward because she clearly doesn’t know how to act right

Like where do you draw the line?

I see the real issue here. I suspect it’s some kind of insecurity and you feel you could lose her at any second

Look man, if she’s a hot woman she’s used to getting hit on. Meaning she also knows how to diffuse a situation if necessary

I say nip it in the bud. It's disrespectful to the max at point 1, if you let it go on it can morph into 2, 3 and 4 in front of your eyes while you're being unreactive. I've always disagreed with "never showing jealousy" because the alpha marks his territory.

Called it

Thinking in fantasy land now but you also have to ask yourself… why would your woman entertain this in the first place?

If it’s such disrespect why is this woman you are fucking and taking out flirting with a waiter and exchanging numbers in front of you

Thats the real question there… the man is just being an uncalibrated idiot and your woman can stop it too you know

Maybe she is the one you should be more worried about and not the waiter

I don't lord it over waiters by the way, but I take the lead so I tell my girl which chair to sit in and then I address the waiter. I'm very friendly with them and tip well, I don't treat them as subservients. But yeah I'm not gonna let them hit on my girl.

Why are you tipping waiters and treating them “well” if they hit on your girl lol

Just ignore em, don’t need to be an ass but don’t need to be fake friendly with people that are imposing on your space

 

[topcat]

So let me ask you this: where do you draw the line? He clearly wants her, this is coming from a place of him desiring her sexually. How much do you let him get away with then?

what i’m interested in getting to the root of is why “flirting” is an issue?

Even if he does invite your girl to do something with him, the one you should be watching is the female. If she is willing to comply then that is an issue with you picking the wrong woman or some chink in your relationship management in general.

What you’re describing is mate guarding. Which is essentially marking your territory to deter other men from incurring on it. This does nothing to influence the behaviour of the other active agent in your relationship (the woman) and actually contributes to damaging her view of you even if subtly at first.

Why is flirting a problem? Why is it disrespectful? How is it a threat to your relationship?

I ask to understand, honestly, because we are clearly on complete opposite ends of a spectrum and i find the opposing view intriguing.

 

[topcat]

Aren’t you talking about a waiter though? Wouldn’t consider that a High Value Guy to worry about



The man has desires and you cannot control that or his attraction but let’s see here…



Wouldn’t care



Still wouldn’t care



Still wouldn’t care. But if he’s taking too long I would interrupt him so I can place my order then let them get back to it


If a waiter could take her from me then she was never with me in the first place. Would see it as a blessing and would wonder how I got with a woman that’s so daft

Because let’s say he does use a time bridge and they exchange numbers. I would realize I have been treating a booty call like a Queen so it was my mistake

No mores dates for her and strictly dickly going forward because she clearly doesn’t know how to act right



I see the real issue here. I suspect it’s some kind of insecurity and you feel you could lose her at any second

Look man, if she’s a hot woman she’s used to getting hit on. Meaning she also knows how to diffuse a situation if necessary




Called it

Thinking in fantasy land now but you also have to ask yourself… why would your woman entertain this in the first place?

If it’s such disrespect why is this woman you are fucking and taking out flirting with a waiter and exchanging numbers in front of him

Thats the real question there… the man is just being an uncalibrated idiot and your woman can stop it too you know

Maybe she is the one you should be more worried about and not the waiter



Why are you tipping waiters and treating them “well” if they hit on your girl lol

Just ignore em, don’t need to be an ass but don’t need to be fake friendly with people that are imposing on your space

A-fucking-men

 

[DarkKnight]

II highly suspect he means he tips and is friendly to waiters in general. Not that he is tipping the specific guy who is trying to flirt with his girl.

If a waiter could take her from me then she was never with me in the first place. Would see it as a blessing and would wonder how I got with a woman that’s so daft

I definitely agree with this by the way. But not sure if this is happening in the current situation (?)

@Karea Ricardus D.
When I sense disrespect like ignoring I would propably just cut in with "hey Im talk to you" said in a sharp way to get him into attention.. but needs to be congruent can come off tryhard. It is not about what you say spefically but rather the vibe and demeanour you bring with it. I also tend to be touchy so a tap to the arm or shoulder with which I impose myself

But this behavior is very natural for me, I am not shy with imposing myself while keeping a veil of civility. I really believe it can come off overbearing when it comes from the wrong place.

1. Lean in, to show you are being attentive and subcommunicate that you expect the same.
   
   
2. Very strong, laser-focused eye contact with a "serious" smile (as opposed to a friendly/open one).
   
   
3. Once he's paying close attention, communicate what you need his attention for, "Hey, I've got a question for you, man. Let me get your take on this." If he's a bit far away you may also be at the same time beckoning him over with a few fingers.
   
   
4. If he looks away, you stop talking, just continue to stare at him but with a still-smiling-yet-somewhat-less-patient expression, and wait for him to look back. When he looks back, you continue. Rinse and repeat

Chase uses a lot of dominance as well..

 

[Chase]

Yeah, if I think he’s deliberately ignoring me when I’m trying to get his attention because I would like to chat a bit or place an order, and instead he is just too sucked into my chick, I will be doing that process I talked about.

For me it’s less about the fact that he’s macking on the chick I’m with and more about the fact that I am trying to talk to the guy and he does not seem to understand the hierarchy here. The woman is my lieutenant — when the commander is talking, you don’t ignore him to speak to the lieutenant.

After I have done that with a guy once my experience is that they will generally be very cautious to appease me on future interactions (with a waiter, future visits to the table, etc.). Looks at me first, checking to make sure I approve, etc.

(if there’s an actual sexy/skilled waiter guy macking on the chick I’m with… I can only think of a few times it’s happened, since I do not take women to restaurants much, lol, but when it has my default is to ignore the guy and stare at the girl in an annoyed way, then stare off into space if she doesn’t get the hint, then look back at her with the bored look even more pronounced, maybe tap my hands in irritation, until she takes the hint and stops flirting back with the guy. She’s my chick; she’s the one in most dire need of policing if she’s encouraging it. Meanwhile I will basically ignore the guy as much as possible, look through him / past him; he is a non-entity… and if he addresses me I will just give him very curt responses with strong but cool eye contact and a serious smile. I want him to feel uncomfortable, and that he has overstepped. With the girl I will just be as normal. After that whenever the guy returns I’ll just be normal with the girl, meanwhile treating the guy like a servant. I always treat waitstaff extremely well, unless they start pulling nonsense like this, just FYI. I reserve petty treatment for people who’ve earned it. The rest of the time everybody is my friend)

Chase

 

[TestY]

Interesting topic. I believe it is a specific instance of a wider class of situations: One is out with another person (friend, girlfriend, etc.), and for some reason, the other person gets more, or all the attention. I've seen a C-celebrity complain that this always happens when he is out with a B-celebrity. Some ideas:

Leadership
I believe one counter could be to clearly lead the situation, such that you engage the person for maybe 1 second before she comes along - for example before getting seated. That might "cement" you as the leader of the interaction and the one he should interact with first. Or you could perhaps try to increase the resonance, depth and volume of your voice, making it harder to ignore you. Or perhaps to be conscious to put a lot of self-respect-subcommunication in your talk.

The positive aura/Direct flash
Perhaps you could try Theron Dumont's "Direct flash" from his book on Personal Magnetism? Alternatively, his writings on the "positive aura".
[For reference for other readers, chapter 14 and 16 here]

By the way, @Karea Ricardus D. I remembered another quote by Dumont/Atkinson in his book "Mind Power" that might be worth trying. The cause isn't necessarily the same, but the situation is pretty similar, and the cure just might work.

 

[Skills]

Interesting how many of you say to just let this stand. Personally I'm with @Skills and @DarkKnight , I still don't think this is acceptable.

Well Karea, to clarify i agree with the does not bother me, cause it does not.... My problem is not the girl with the seduction aspect is the autistic waiter totally crossing boundaries or disrespecting you, nothing to do with the girl in other words if you were with a male friend that is just rude and unacceptable, disrespect is disrespect, again nothing to do with a girl, like those prank shows, but this is super unusual to be honest i have never experienced this in the usa and i go to restaurants all the times with women, so your scenario i never have experience on dates, obviously as me and teevester discussed in another post in night game is normal this behavior of opportunistic dudes, and/or amog (though i don't get amog tbh)... My point is i am in kj territory cause i have never experienced it...

Just out of curiosity, was the waiter like a cool player and you by body language and micro expressions saw your date and his vibe there to the point that it may have threaten you???

The other half is high value guys basically trying to flirt in front of me. And with a certain (rare) kind of girl, this happens a lot, not a one-off.

^ this does not bother me at all tbh, high value or low value, the girl will go home with me...specially if i have been inside the pussy walls... even if he is a rockstart or rapper like drake, women don't operate like that (though i know the red pill paranoia with hypergamy), she is already more invested in you... Unless is like the end of the relationship were the relationship in life line and she is half in, but even then is like out there sample, is unlikely lottery type shit....

So let me ask you this: where do you draw the line? He clearly wants her, this is coming from a place of him desiring her sexually. How much do you let him get away with then?

1. Just doing his job describing the menu, but only talking to her while he does it?
2. Describing the menu while adding small talk, and only talking to her while he does it?
3. Describing the menu while adding small talk and flirtatiousness, and only talking to her while he does it?
4. Describing the menu while adding small talk and a time bridge (inviting her to some thing)?

^ karea this very unusual is weird, now i know this is not a possibility but did the girls know the waiter? or did the girl was sending micro ais that you did not see (i doubt either scenario).... But again super unusual, for a waiter to be that autistic at least in the USA. Plus why would a waiter jeopardize the tip, it is really weird...

Like where do you draw the line?

I say nip it in the bud. It's disrespectful to the max at point 1, if you let it go on it can morph into 2, 3 and 4 in front of your eyes while you're being unreactive. I've always disagreed with "never showing jealousy" because the alpha marks his territory.

no man, cause women shit test with jealousy, and some of them do it on purpose, totally disagree with mate guarding i went through a period of being like that, once i joined nextasf (all that stuff changed when out the window with influences of teevester, jws, nwp, bd etc...)

I don't lord it over waiters by the way, but I take the lead so I tell my girl which chair to sit in and then I address the waiter. I'm very friendly with them and tip well, I don't treat them as subservients. But yeah I'm not gonna let them hit on my girl.

good because women always are looking on how you treat others such as waiter, servers etc.. and how you tip them if you do good is a dhv if you don't do good for some is deal breaker, cause most hot women have been in higher gun positions and still have friends in those industries.

@Skills how would you troll him

So first i have a different personality i am one of those cocky funny trolish naturals (think of tucker max type), the reason i am saying this is cause your personality may not be congruent....

but what i would do is lets say the waiter is more muscular/better looking than me, I would be like inflating his ego while making him feel uncomfortable and her on the spot....... So when i deal with guys my style is different is like i help dudes to get or hook up with women, this is the style that has worked for me always.... it seems when you help the dude get the women the dude overreaches, the women is confused why are you giving her away, and you just sit there and predict the mess.... it never fails, in my personal style, any other jealousy, territorialsm, fights etc... i believe kills attraction, is needy and backfires (even as an alpha i went through stage of territorialism and m/w prior to nextasf)... and/or you fail her shit test, in clubs for example women love jealousy plots 90% clubs fights happen due to this...

So lets say the waiter is a cool, hot jacked dude........ in a way he can hear me like having a 3 way convo....

me: Lizzett look at this waiter his hot and jacked looking like a male super model, he is trying to look like me, look at him, you are almost there....

if he has more money.... me: look at you, i should take an internship in your co. i want to be like you when i grow up...

^obviously is ridiculous shit, at this point he is uncomfortable and she is uncomfortable...

i also do self deprecation: Dude she just dump me, and left me for a black guy name tyron, she did not like that i had 2 inches, but now she is back giving me another chance...

is hard to think of me i have not been in that situation but this is from a lay report were the guys were cooler, younger and better looking:

Some strangers from south Africa come and open us trying to take her from me…

Me: this is my wife she left me for a black dude name Tyrone cause I have 2 inches now she is back and I am so happy…
Strangers: weird look on the face…
Me: she is intro 3 somes, 4 somes and bukakke (bukakke is a fetish were women have multiple strangers cumming in her face)

Now cockblocks neutralized: “nah we are not into that”

this is kind of what i do the dude going to the dude with 2 women 3:26:

^ in other word i inflate the dude and make him higher value and cool to ridiculous levels, he gets uncomfortable and throws them off the game.... And/or they over reach and overgame due to excitement of smelling blood in the water, and women feel this and get turn off (trying too hard effect) while i am here chilling helping them hook up, knowing it will totally backfire cause i seen it so many times never fails...

or they both get kind of weirded out and uncomfortable my girl and the amog dude, that he does not want to deal with it... women risk adverse, they rather not deal with weird situations...

my 2 cents...

 

[Will_V]

I think perhaps there's a bit of talking past eachother going on here where guys are emphasizing one part of their frame and neglecting to explain another.

In problems like this my mind always goes straight to 'why did this happen in the first place, and how can I change that'. Whereas some people go straight for 'how do I kung-fu this into a win?'.

If this happened to me yes I would move to take back the frame, because I am someone who likes to be in that position, but not to the extent of calling it out or reacting in any overt way. More like - when attention came my way I would try to use it very well to flip the frame. Sometimes that means 'doing' something, and sometimes it means doing less.

I like @Chase's methods of commanding the frame, and I think it would be good in all cases to communicate to the guy that you are aware and in control, the same way that it's good to do so with anyone who is looking for opportunities. But this for me would be at a level of body language and tone that is difficult to satisfyingly describe on the internet. I think the best way to describe it is that the guy should feel awkward continuing to do what he is doing. This is not as difficult to do as it seems, people are generally very consistent and will not ignore what their subconscious tells them is a shaky move, as long as the signals are not corrupted by a poor internal frame.

But my view is that when someone has this frame, presence, and subcommunication nailed down it would be difficult for the problem to have happened in the first place. Which makes reacting to it by definition a suboptimal move. Which is why I think if it does happen, it's more important to not worsen your own internal frame and mental self control than it is to correct one instance, and that's where my emphasis lies.

One thing I've noted from daygame is that when you give a girl who's with her boyfriend attention (in a subtle and intriguing way of course) the way she reacts tells you a lot about what kind of relationship they have. And when they are tight and she deeply respects him and is psychologically fulfilled by him, what she will do is give a slightly submissive posture BUT move her body language slightly toward her boyfriend. This is her way of saying 'I won't be dealing with you, but you'll be dealing with him'. And that's when you know it's not worth playing around with, because it is a body language that is instinctively picked up on by any red blooded male and it will psychologically reinforce him, as it is really both a submission toward him and a 'call for assistance'.

Obviously when a girl stares back and eyeballs you and whatnot that's when you know the other guy is already half out of the picture. And the worst (i.e. most fun for me) is when she's completely distracted by me, and he's trying to assert himself and be 'dominant' but can't really do anything because it's not even clear to him what's going on.

So what your girl should be doing is the first behavior, and if she's not, there's probably some work to do to improve things.

 

[Teevster]

I would simply stare the guy down with a cold poker face. No emotions whatsoever expressed on my face. It makes men feel so uncomfortable. I do so while seeming relaxd.

My go to amog. Works often.

Reactive without coming off as reactive.

 

[Teevster]

4. Describing the menu while adding small talk and a time bridge (inviting her to some thing)

If some waiter does that, i will ask him if he wants to fuck my girl and if so, that he can join us for a threesome but only if he shows us his dick. He will freak out and leave you the fuck alone. If he says yes, report him to his manager.

Field tested although in other contexts. They usually freak out and leave you alone.

The key to amoging is to make the other man uncomfortable.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Aren’t you talking about a waiter though? Wouldn’t consider that a High Value Guy to worry about



The man has desires and you cannot control that or his attraction but let’s see here…



Wouldn’t care



Still wouldn’t care



Still wouldn’t care. But if he’s taking too long I would interrupt him so I can place my order then let them get back to it



If a waiter could take her from me then she was never with me in the first place. Would see it as a blessing and would wonder how I got with a woman that’s so daft

Because let’s say he does use a time bridge and they exchange numbers. I would realize I have been treating a booty call like a Queen so it was my mistake

No mores dates for her and strictly dickly going forward because she clearly doesn’t know how to act right



I see the real issue here. I suspect it’s some kind of insecurity and you feel you could lose her at any second

Look man, if she’s a hot woman she’s used to getting hit on. Meaning she also knows how to diffuse a situation if necessary




Called it

Thinking in fantasy land now but you also have to ask yourself… why would your woman entertain this in the first place?

If it’s such disrespect why is this woman you are fucking and taking out flirting with a waiter and exchanging numbers in front of you

Thats the real question there… the man is just being an uncalibrated idiot and your woman can stop it too you know

Maybe she is the one you should be more worried about and not the waiter



Why are you tipping waiters and treating them “well” if they hit on your girl lol

Just ignore em, don’t need to be an ass but don’t need to be fake friendly with people that are imposing on your space

You basically said all the things I was thinking when reading this thread.

Something feels off in the relationship he is having with the girl.

-Teevster