A ray of light in the darkness

[ray_zorse]

All good here.

My alternate relationship is going quite well, I restricted my investment quite a lot and she's been initiating about once a week which is good. She seems much happier now that she's working. I have arranged to go and see her in a month's time. I have been discussing with my trainer what I can do to get in better shape before this happens. He has agreed to look at my diet and we have stepped up the training sessions to 2 a week, when I get my work under better control I also plan to do my own training a few times a week as well.

So I've been on quite a restricted calorific intake for the last 3 days and it is going very well. I feel like I can basically survive on mainly "free" foods with some protein added. My goal is 7700kJ per day, but I've actually been coming in at 5500~6500kJ since I've been really religious about making sure no unnecessary nutrients pass my lips. I've got through a shitload of vegetables, eggs, tofu, etc and bought a lot more today. The other thing I'm tackling here is my habit of grazing, although I can "graze" on free foods I feel like this is a double edged sword because I'm not reducing my stomach capacity and so I still remain hungry all the time, also when I'm in situations where only unhealthy food is available I'll still be in the habit of grazing. My current weight is 92.8kg, it has fluctuated 90~95kg for the past year. I'm hoping to see noticeable reductions in the coming weeks. I'm quite excited about this because I feel like my body has been one of the main things holding me back as a seducer, I just haven't been getting checked out or opened the way I should.

In relationship managment news well I've crossed another thing off the bucket list, which is uhh errrmmm pee sex, this came about because I was feeling a little beta, had hung out with Leticia for half the weekend and hadn't really railed her hard, had been a bit the romantic, sloppy kisses etc and although we'd had sex I wasn't fully into it. So Saturday while she was at work I was kind of masturbating a little and feeling really horny and looking at some sexts and thinking how I'm gonna fuck Leticia hard when she gets home. I picked her up from work and took her on a nice date in which we had a guided tour of a historic house and some coffee in the coffeeshop and I had a haircut, eventually we get home and get down to it, but first she wants a drink... well she had one handy so I let her drink some and then put my hard cock in her and started destroying her snatch, I was really in the mood but unfortunately she stopped me saying she needed to go to the toilet... well I found this pretty annoying because she did the same thing the other day and it felt suspiciously like a test, her seeing whether I'm really in the animalistic frame of mind where I'm just gonna take her, or whether I can be manipulated and jerked around. So I refused to let her and smilingly continued to fuck her hard, I tried various things to get her more in the mood, which worked to an extent, but she just KEPT wanting to stop and go to the toilet.

I decided to do what I've had in mind for a while, but been putting off because of the mess it would create (I had to choose a time when there was no time pressure and so on)... I pulled out and said "come here" and brought her up the stairs. I laid out 4 towels on the floor and lay down on them and then I fucked her for a bit with her on top, while she asked to go to the toilet... I then ordered her to pee on me. She wouldn't and started getting a bit upset. I physically stopped her from going to the toilet for a while, saying persuasively "come on... you can do it" and stuff (but avoiding getting into a logical discussion as to why pee sex is awesome)... she said "it is... unusual" and "I can't" and "I am worried it is dirty" and so on. I just laughed at all this. I also gave her strong eye contact and silences. After about 10~15 minutes she seemed like she was becoming (or might become) distressed and so, feeling quite disgusted by her lack of compliance, I gave up and let her go to the toilet. This wasn't the end of things by any stretch however. She then tried to climb back, on but I just looked past her at a light fitting and ignored her. She seemed pretty upset.

So I decided on a takeaway and so I just got up and started folding up some washing, this lasted for about half an hour in which time it got dark and she was just sitting curled up in the bathroom on a towel, either sulking or being upset or whatever. I ignored her and kept tidying kids room, putting washing away and so on, thinking to myself "fuck, there is a lot I am giving up in order to pursue my relationship with Leticia, I could be getting HEAPS more work done, I could be keeping the house much more tidy, I could be reading my history books etc, but instead I'm spending Friday to Sunday just hanging out with her and organizing nice activities for her and lots of sex etc... and she can't even pee on me, it's not like I was asking for anything difficult... anyway now I'm just gonna do some of that other stuff and get it done, fuck her, she can entertain herself I guess"... I got through a good part of the washing and tidying and eventually she went downstairs, I dunno what she did there. I decided to read my book and have a rest and continue with the washing later. It had been a pretty tiring week and soon I was dozing.

So eventually Leticia comes in and starts trying to get my attention -- aha the takeaway's working. She kisses me, tries to snuggle up to me etc... I just ignored her and kept my eyes closed... she found this quite frustrating and honestly I felt a bit of a dick but I was committed to the takeaway by this stage... she would have spent a good half hour trying different things to get a reaction from me, trying to put my hearing aids in, trying to link fingers with my hand etc... eventually she started tickling me and grabbing my cock and that's when I turned away from her but otherwise I didn't react. She became quite distressed, I was conscious that I had to hold my frame... I wanted her to behave in a certain way... she hadn't complied... she now wanted me to behave in a certain way... I wasn't gonna comply. She eventually said in my ear quite tearfully "sorry" and so I decided to proceed. I opened my eyes and said "hand me my hearing aids". She complied. I said "it is really very unreasonable, you want me to behave in a certain way, but when the situation was reversed an hour ago, you weren't having it". Thus chase framing her, instead of letting her set the frame I was sulking (which I wasn't really, I was just withdrawing my attention because she hadn't earned it).

She starts trying to initiate a logical discussion but I just ignored her and stared at the ceiling. At one stage I've said "trust me that I would not ask you to do something without a good reason" and she's like "I do trust you blah blah", I replied "I have never been wrong -- all the things I have asked you to do, you have eventually done and enjoyed a lot". Hmm. Eventually I said "well I'm resting now, but you obviously want something from me" and she's like "no I want NOTHING from you" but my point hit home. She's becoming a bit distressed, and starting to say irrelevant stuff and I cut her off saying "it's not that complicated. I want you to pee on me". She says "blah blah I just want to make you happy blah blah" so I smiled and said "okay. make me happy" and led her to the bathroom and lay down on the towels again. You could see her starting to waver... I was feeling pretty cocky by this stage and just giggling and getting my mojo back, teasing her a little... she started to blow me, but eventually I said "go. pee on me" and she's like "I don't need to pee anymore"... so I've said "there's a cup just there... drink some water" and spent the next 15 minutes making her drink a number of glasses of water, in which she complied. I drank one for one. After a while something's clicked and she's looked at me like "NOOooOOoo!! YOU ARE NOT PEEING ON ME" and it was so funny that I've inhaled the water I was drinking and exploded with laughter, I'm still laughing a bit thinking about it now.

Shortly after this we heard something from downstairs so we went downstairs to check it out, nobody was there so we went back upstairs and here I ordered her onto her knees, in which she complied. I then took out my cock and started trying to get the flow going, but realized to my horror that when I was just about to come on stream she was about to start giving me a blowjob. I'm like "NOOO NOT NOW" and she's jumped up and started trying to get away, well I got a goodly amount of pee on her lower body and a fair bit on the rest of the room, she looked really upset at this and starts trying to clean it off... honestly looking pretty distressed and I was kind of worried but I just sat her down on me and started rubbing her pussy on my body and ordering her to pee... and after the longest time she's like "okay. but FIRST TIME AND LAST TIME" and this was so incredibly comical (trying to negotiate with a terrorist) that I've exploded with laughter once again... after quite a while of trying, she gets the flow going and I must say it felt amazing. Even better than when you're waterskiing and you pee in your wetsuit. Next time she's to stand up so I can see, but good enough.

I'm like "ahhhh it's so warm...and it's been inside you....that's soo good darling" with a huge smile on my face. I then flipped her over on the pee soaked towels and railed the fuck out of her, while having an image in my head of her driving to the shops in a little miniskirt and badly needing the toilet on the way home and not being able to hold on, and peeing all over the driver's seat and her skirt and so on... and then her arriving home and me seeing what's happened and throwing her down on the sofa and licking her pee soaked pussy and then peeing all over her and entering her... eehhh well this fantasy didn't have much of an endgame and I found it hard to come, but she came twice, once on top of me and again when I had her rub her clit while fucking her with a big hard dick from the side... after this I railed her hard again in adapted missionary, eventually I came and shot a big load on her stomach and tits. Hmmm nice going, thing is all distress evaporated after this, she was delighted with the whole scenario... she ran us a nice warm bubble bath whilst I cleaned up the pee and put the towels in the machine, and we sponged each other clean and had a lovely time for the rest of the evening. Made a few pee jokes here and there.

I'm not 100% sure why she came around in the end, could be
(1) pee sex is awesome
(2) I made her comply and therefore built loads of attraction
(3) I rewarded her compliance with great sex
(4) the takeaway made her appreciate what I do for her normally
(5) I manipulated her emotions down low and then up high

Anyway I'm keen to document all my relationship management experiences, how I get my girls to comply to various deviant sex practices, and how some quite dire situations can actually end up being big attraction boosters because of holding my frame. I'm really grateful to girlschase for helping me to understand this. Also, even though I know I should be approaching, I will consider my current break from active seduction to be well spent if I get my weight under control (as well as other things like my eye contact discpline and posture that I struggle with a lot), and build lots of relationship management expertise at the same time.

 

[Seppuku]

Hello Ray,

I read with interest your exploration of sex with Leticia, it only reminds me that I've always been very conventional... Maybe it's time that I tried some more kinky stuff ;-)

About your weight loss. It's something that I've struggled with several times. If you're into fish and meat you could try something like the Dukan diet. It's low carb and low fat, very high in protein... Just read about it. You will eat meat, fish and eggs until you're bored of it (there are also some veggies allowed). But the good thing is you won't feel hungry. The proteins take time to digest (hours) so they keep your stomach busy, for a relatively low calorie count. You end end absorbing 1500 Calories in a day (that's 6300 kJ) without being hungry. The result is amazing, maybe losing 8 kg in a month. I dropped my weight from 92 kg to 77kg in 2011 in 3 months. Recently (after 6 months of not watching myself), I gradually raised to 85kg. I followed the indication from the weight loss article in GC... Skipping breakfast, and ketogenic diet. In 3 months I'm back to 77. Not as amazing as Dukan, but much easier to follow since fats are all allowed... You can fry your veggies, fish and meat, have butter and oil, have cheese, etc... Just no carbs at all. At 77 kg, you are more attractive, and feel more energy than at 92, so it's really worth the effort. Just my experience of it. Hope that helps!

On another note, I know girlfriends take a lot of time and investment and energy, and it's rewarding. Got two in the last 12 months. But if I may, I would suggest you manage yourself some options with other girls... It what keeps you attractive to girls, and eventually benefits your current relationship with Leticia.

Anyway cheers mate ;-)
Seppuku

 

[ray_zorse]

Thanks for the shout out Seppuku, I really appreciate the feedback.

Leticia has packed her stuff and left, she's quite angry mainly b/c I was texting my other gf who responded while I was in the shower and I guess the phone lit up while Leticia was on the couch having brekky, I saw my conversation on the screen when I came downstairs and was a little concerned, that didn't seem normal. Thinking about it now I realize she must have opened the phone, well I've always had a notion this could happen but deliberately put no lock on the phone as I feel I do not want to be actively hiding stuff, that feels a bit guilty to me. I won't bring up topics that will hurt her, but if asked a direct question I will answer honestly. Well, contrary to my normal practice of soft NEXT to discourage drama, in this case I felt quite responsible and that her concerns were legitimate so I invited her to share her concerns, she wasn't able to articulate them precisely (probably because she did not want to say she'd been through my phone), and I wasn't going to help her, but I did tell her that there waa someone important to me since before we had started our relationship and this had presented some difficulties for me. We then discussed other topics and I suppose a little headway was made but she's still pretty angry so I do not expect her to contact me this week. Well, I made my bed, now I must lie in it. Overall I am sad but staying somewhat philosophical.

Leticia also referred to the pee-sex drama as a "fight" or a "problem" so I suppose the frame I projected might have been sookier or less dominant than I had thought. I dunno, it was a challenging situation and I have not experimented much with takeaways before. Next time I will ease up on the ignoring and the refusal of eye contact and be more relaxed and jokey but still noticeably less compliant and more dismissive. This worked last time I did a takeaway without raising alarm bells.

Seppuku our diet philosophies are very much in sync, I will write more but this smartphone is quite awkward for forum posting especially >1 screenful.

 

[ray_zorse]

I had some fun encounters yesterday.

Well, I pussied out on an approach I should have done to a Vietnamese (or Chinese not sure) woman with her mum at the aquarium, I did say hello to the mum when she sat down next to me towards the time we left, but I need to be more decisive. But in the afternoon in the deli I did one of my routines

Her: what can I get you today?
Me: your lipstick is very eyecatching (smile)
Her: ohh haha I just threw this on
Me: you look absolutely AMAZING... "I just threw this on" haha (I make a dismissive hand guesture)
Her: (smiles)
Me: I'll have some salad... for the kids' dinner, it's too hot to cook today
(we chat about the weather, where she parked the car etc, I should have checked logistics at this point)
(eventually we're ready to go)
Me: (to my son) say thankyou to [her name, which is on her nametag]
My son: thankyou!
Me: I'm Ray by the way... (extends hand over the counter to shake)
Her: (shakes... I continue holding her hand and turn it around to inspect the tattoo on her wrist)
Me: (reads aloud)
Her: ohh haha everyone asks about that
(I later realize it's in French and what it means, I should have teased her about it)
Me: see you!

So, although I didn't get a number or deep dive as such, I still had a much more fun interaction because I had the balls to say what I was thinking. I reckon if you are ever engaged in a commercial transaction with a hotty, a very powerful way to open is with a compliment right off the bat. Once you start the transaction if you try to take it personal it's MUCH less powerful.

Later on in the post office I approached a little Asian girl who walked in in front of me... the queue was extremely long and I said teasingly "ohh it's just a quick in/out isn't it"... she laughed but unfortunately changed her mind and didn't get in the queue. The woman in front of me in the queue was borderline attractive and she spoke to me but I just made some boring response and completely missed the chance, later on I realized and tried to correct with a situational opener which she either didn't hear or ignored. Oh well.

Then I was scheduled to drop kids to their mum half an hour early and have dinner with some dads from my son's kinder, I was REALLY looking forward to this, although it was quite difficutl to be dominant because the restaurant was extremely noisy and I couldn't hear well, so I leaned in to conversations a bit, and didn't have much interaction with the dude diagonally opposite or the dudes at the end of the table, but overall I had a really fun time. What made it particularly fun was flirting with the waitresses a bit, I got myself introduced by name to several of them and made various joking remarks, I used a lot of touch. As one example

Me: do you eat a dinner in the restaurant during your shift?
Her: ohh no only if we do a long shift
Me: ohh would you order the ribs?
Her: I can't eat a kilo but yes they are great
Me: (I gently rub her stomach) ohh but you're very slim aren't you
Her: (smiles, changes the subject)

This was after escalating touch a bit (elbow, shoulder, etc)... yes very fun indeed, I discovered later she's Italian and is being sponsored here by the restaurant, I told her "based on how you've cared for us tonight, I think you are a VERY valuable employee"... she was pretty happy. I farewelled her with lots and lots of touch at the register, I would have gone in for a kiss except her colleague was present, operating the register. I wasn't aiming for a number or anything, just being nice. But it's good to get back in practice and warm up a little. Besides the fact that, dinner is much more fun if you can set up a little flirting at same time.

None of the other dads appeared to notice that I was flirting with the waitresses, but they probably did. Might have given me some value. In the group I was really a bit beta, due to my inability to hear, but I had some good conversations with dudes near me or that I knew well. One thing that helped was to force myself to relax and not be anxious, I wanted to make a good impression on the dads and be "one of the boys", but I realized I was probably trying too hard.

Unfortunately I broke my diet, this was a conscious decision because I'd been on the diet for a week, lost some weight and I wanted to eat regularly for one night before going back to the diet. It was also partly due to social pressure because I REALLY didn't want to cancel (I think it's a GREAT idea to have boytime with the kinder dads), and I didn't want to be a dick in this group by not eating/drinking with the rest. In hindsight I went totally overboard, I consumed about 15,000kJ yesterday when I normally consume about 5000kJ. I could have handled this much more smoothly and stuck to my own priorities. Learning from it.

Note: I realized for the last 3 months I have been completely forgetting to sexually smile, and have been making beta, nervous-type smiles. I think this is a significant reason I haven't had a lot of mojo lately. I'm definitely going to correct this habit and get back into practicing my sexual smile whenever I meet eyes.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Ray,

Keep up the good work. It is good to hear that experiences guys still struggle. The super Alpha guys don't help the normal guys by always being perfect. I can't learned from that.

I did the same thing at lunch today. When I approached the gal at the counter I opened with Hello pretty lady and asked her name. I then told her mine. I was going to shake her hand but the counter was like 4.5 feet (1.5 meters) tall. Starting to build rapport for the next visit.

SGent

 

[ray_zorse]

Some news... well now that the dust has settled and I have got over my shock and implemented some tough decisions in regard to my other relationships... I am feeling pretty optimistic about things and I want to share our good news. But firstly I want to thank my wonderful support system of seducer friends for helping me sort out my thoughts, I was not journaling at the time because my thoughts changed day to day, especially as there were a lot of people I've had to speak to in order to make arrangements and their reactions mattered also.

So, Leticia is pregnant and we are having a baby in June. This was somewhat my intention as we haven't used protection in a long time, but I was still surprised how quickly this happened, I've been lazy in the past with no real consequences, but I guess if you're making love twice a day that does slant the probabilities a little, haha. I must say I've kept this up for a very long time because I believe you must always follow precedent and that if the sex drops off the relationship quickly follows, but lately I felt quite fatigued and focused on other things, so I have tried to give her quality rather than quantity. It's okay.

She told her mum last night. Reaction was okay, guardedly positive. We have an appointment for dinner with my parents coming Monday and we will tell them then. I already told them privately that I wish to surprise Leticia with a ring, as I needed their help with some arrangements. They are delighted. I must say I listened to Leticia's conversation with my grandmother two days ago and I was overwhelmed by how Leticia seems to know exactly what to say in a situation. Very genuine and honest and vulnerable and highly respectful to her elders.

Leticia has been very sick lately with morning sickness and very fatigued from the physical work she does in the days. She has also been very emotional, sad and lonely at times (we were not living together) and concerned about our future and many other matters. I have decided to allow her to move in with me so I can keep an eye on her. More about this later.

I must stop writing now, just killed a workout (3km run, 5km bike, abs workout etc) and stopped for a coffee and took a few calls and checked email and wrote this post (and approached an attractive woman in the street and some more in the coffee shop), now must battle cross town traffic to take Leticia to the doctor. All the best to my homies

 

[Rage]

That's some news, wow congrats Ray! I wish all the best for you, Leticia, and the new baby

I was reading it and at first was worried for you, and thinking man what would hapen if I got a girl pregnant, and how me and other friends of mine have worried about this in the past with the different girls we had longer histories with who we sometimes got lazy arounod. But then I remembered that, oh yeah you already have kids, plus have double the life experience and wisdom that me and a lot of the other younger guys on here have hahaha Getting pregnant is a pleasant at wonderful thing then if you are ready, willing and established for it.

In high school too (find it hilarious now), I remmeber having chats with a buddy or two who had gotten a girl preganant and it going something along the lines of "oh no, that sucks I'm sorry man, how did it happen?" ... hahahahahaha.

Its fortunate that there are other guys on here you can proabbyl get a lot of counsel from for your relationship management in the future and other things to consider as the months pass. And you have time to plan things in the months to come; good luck moving forward man, hope things go well, keep us updated!

-Rage

 

[ray_zorse]

Hey Rage thanks mate, I really appreciate the sentiments. Well, the response to my news was a bit underwhelming but a few of the guys have mentioned it here and there. Luckily, GC isn't Facebook, but again, I really appreciate your taking the time to write some kind words of support.

Hmm well since we're discussing risky sex, I have to say I had another bit of a shock today in that I found I have chlamydia. So, whilst I don't really think of myself as a guy who has risky sex (I normally use condoms), there have been more exceptions in the last 6 months than I'd like. I have placed some calls to inform girls that they might have chlamydia. I only spoke to one so far. She seemed cool with it.

Anyway, on to the good news. Lately I have not been approaching much. Pussying out you might say, but I'm not sure. I lacked momentum but this is, in part, a deliberate decision because I'm really hitting work hard right now. I haven't been in the mental space, e.g. I concentrate hard all morning, and then jump on a tram to meet my supervisor, running a bit late. I see girls I'd like to approach, but I'm too in my head. So today I impulsively did some approaches, the first was in the lift of my building. She's nice. I tried swinggcat's push-pull method and it was hilarious.

(I open with a simple hi and an introduction and some questions about her accent and name etc, blah blah)
Me: So you work and study... that's very good. When do you have time for your homework?
Her: Ohh mainly the weekend (blah blah explaining)
Me: Oh - in that case we cannot hang out. Because you will be doing homework all weekend and neglect the housework. I don't like that.
Her: (blah blah qualifying herself on housework)
Me: (touching her and smiling) You are very good. You can balance things.
(etc... blah blah she asks about my day)
Me: I'm running late for my meeting, because of you. I'm upset about that. (I break eye contact and look straight ahead and withdraw physically)
Her: Because of me? (blah blah explaining herself)
Me: (touching her and smiling) But you are nice. I would have liked to go to the supermarket with you.
(etc... blah blah I close out with a kiss on the cheek)

Another one on the tram

(I open by telling her it was kind of her to buy me clothes... she's holding a shopping bag from some upmarket clothing store... she smiles... I ask her about the clothes... something about t-shirts)
Me: Oh, really. (disappointed tone) And I had such high hopes for you before. Tsk, tsk. (I withdraw briefly, then make eye contact again)
Her: (smiles)
Me: (smiles and re-engages) In fact, I couldn't find my favourite t-shirt today, so I really do need the clothes and thank you.
(compliment her appearance... ask about her day, it's her day off, I high five her and qualify her on doing something with the day... we chat a bit, I tell her I'll have to get off)
Me: so where are you off to now?
Her: I have a meeting now.
Me: Oh - mixing work and pleasure. Then we cannot hangout, I don't like that. (I withdraw physically and look straight ahead for a bit)
Her: (smiles)
Me: (I reverse the push with a pull... cannot remember what... lean in and kiss her on the cheek and get off, she's happy)

Another one, this one was REALLY cute, in the doctor's surgery... engaged her in some verbal fencing for quite a while before FU'd by becoming serious and giving logical answers to her questions

(blah blah)
Me: you are very young.
Her: (qualifying herself) I'm Master's student
(blah blah)
Her: what about your course?
Me: I'm in the faculty of... (pause) making women smile
Her: (wheels turning)... (eventually smiles)
Me: (teasing) you smiled! (pause) But we can't be friends. I don't like women who are slow to smile. (I disengage)
Her: ...
Me: (some pull to counteract the push... can't remember what it was)
(et cetera... she's hooked and spends a long time trying to persuade me she asked first, so I have to explain my course before she hers... eventually I give her a hint and she guesses and I qualify her)

I was thinking number grab here, but I still have some mental issues surrounding the fact I have a girlfriend. Especially with conservative girls like this one, I feel like it's wrong to date her if I can't deliver the goods. It's fine to fuck her and put her in a casual relationship as long as there's SOME POSSIBILITY that she could chase me down in the future. I really need to get over this mental issue and convince myself that she just wants a good fuck, which in reality she probably does. I think I would feel better about this if I qualified her on sexual adventurousness before going for the pull. I'm considering what to do about this.

Another one, this is a hairdresser that I visited on the spur of the moment and made an appointment, came back an hour later for my haircut, chase framed her several times and did some more push-pull

(I've explained what haircut I want, she starts doing the side with clippers)
Me: I will take these out [my hearing aids] to make it easier for you. I will put them back in later (pause) so you can chat me up.
Her: (smiles, does not object to the frame)
(we discuss washing the hair and scalp massage)
(she answers the phone and enters an appointment in the book mid haircut)
Me: (her name), I am going to need your full attention here. (I pause, looking angry) It's fine to answer the phone, but if you lose concentration and (pause) cut my ear off, I will be very angry. (I break rapport, but then I cannot help smiling)
Her: (qualifying) ohh no these clippers are very blunt that won't happen
Me: (chuckles) you are very good - multitasking is a good attribute.
...
(she has me come over to the basin saying she will wash my hair)
Me: You know you just wanted to give me a scalp massage
Her: (smiles, does not object to the frame)
(I really appreciate the scalp massage, we return to the chair and she starts on the top)
Me: During this week as I'm styling my hair, if any at the back sticks up and I have to cut it off, then I will fine you one dollar each time, okay? (I look stern)
Her: (qualifying) ohh then I had better make sure I get it all then
Me: (smiles) It's good that you're using scissors, you'll thin it out on the top a bit for me too?
Her: (qualifying) of course
...
(I ask her why there's no-one else in the store, she says her boss normally works today but is sick, other days there are 3 hairdressers)
Me: okay. But as you know, no chatting to your friends while you're cutting my hair. (I disengage)
Her: (chuckles... she's cottoned onto the game and doesn't take me seriously anymore)
...
Me: Meeting you really made my day today. I had a lot of fun teasing you.
... (I pay)
Me: Bye darling.

To make the push-pull work better I need to concentrate on being more stern and serious and really breaking rapport. Swinggcat has a really great example of a girl doing this to a guy -- cutting him down about his height and his ugliness and then saying "but I find you cute" and so on... it's really interesting to see it from the other perspective, the perspective of somebody who is really quite insecure.

Anyway, I want to make a real focus on adding techniques to my repertoire, I really don't care if I get laid atm, I just want to be technically better. I do have a slight problem with not going for the number or date, which I solved in about March/April by making my own opportunities and setting goals in regards to this. But right now it's not a focus, I know I can do this but I want to get better at other things.

 

[Lover]

Wow Ray, these interactions are awesome. Your pushes seem so dominant and smooth. I liked this one in particular

Her: what about your course?
Me: I'm in the faculty of... (pause) making women smile
Her: (wheels turning)... (eventually smiles)
Me: (teasing) you smiled! (pause) But we can't be friends. I don't like women who are slow to smile. (I disengage)

Can't wait to see more of your push-pull conversations!

 

[Rage]

Hey Rage thanks mate, I really appreciate the sentiments. Well, the response to my news was a bit underwhelming but a few of the guys have mentioned it here and there. Luckily, GC isn't Facebook, but again, I really appreciate your taking the time to write some kind words of support.

Hmm well since we're discussing risky sex, I have to say I had another bit of a shock today in that I found I have chlamydia. So, whilst I don't really think of myself as a guy who has risky sex (I normally use condoms), there have been more exceptions in the last 6 months than I'd like. I have placed some calls to inform girls that they might have chlamydia. I only spoke to one so far. She seemed cool with it.

Hey I'm glad Ray, you know I was talking about that with my friend today, that all adult guys we know are fucking pussies (not to be mean but in a factual way) and I was thinking about that, that its likely very few guy friends of mine I have (unless they're players as well) who I’ll find getting married or having children or any of that and can very deeply feel happy for them and that they're doing the best with their lives and potential and choices.

I care for friends I've bonded with and yeah in ways it kind of breaks your heart seeing tough driven friends turning into pussies after getting a girlfriend. Likley this scales up as they get married and have kids too; likely you’ve seen this a ton with many peers and coworkers and the like throughout the years.

Feel very happy for you man, and yeah really do hope for all the best.

I know exactly what you mean about feeling like reaction to the news might have been a bit underwhelming; I recall feeling the same way a bit when I talked about getting done with my book and stuff (which btw thanks immensely for being one of the few who checked it out and gave me feedback and criticism on it; that meant a great deal to me too).

People probably do care and have good feelings and sentiment; but I remember Chase explaining something about this to me, that there's a bit of a disconnect between online and real life in terms of emotions and how we bond with each other and other things related to that. He said that even if you skype or whatever, its not quite the same as in person; and we don’t really have a true relationship with friends or women or whatever till it is in person. For whatever reason that is.

Might be a reason that people give less care or empathy or seeming concern about things a bit over internet; the other thing too might be that just many people didn’t read it… cause journals don’t get read a ton, and I think just in gc in general views on any of the threads weven throughout their life aren’t veery many. It’s a small intimate boards we’ve got; I’m sure others do feel just as optimistic and happy for you though man
…

That sucks about the chlamydia; calling up past flings for STD talk reminded me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=264s-sFqvTA lol maybe you find this funny, or find it fucking stupid hahaha…

…

I was discussing something with my friend and me and him were both wondering about this. And I've hd a ton of times wondering about this I was wondering what you thoughts or insight would be on the topic.

If you're settled into a relationship and it’s good too, I see how it is important to be talking to other girls still to at least be retaining some of your attractive qualities and past skill.

But do you think that it is important to be sleeping with other girls too? It seems from reading your lat post that you're trying to work back to being able to do this?

This is shit that stumps me, and I feel like it’s a question that solves itself through more experience and life experience and this question will inevitably answer itself when I get older, wiser, and have been with many more women.

But do you think that all seducer guys settle full monogamously eventually?

Or that it is possible to or a route that many may go? I know chase said that all the guys who swear they won’t are tehe first to get into heavy committed relationships. But I wonder whether even within those they endeavor to still sleep with other women, and whether they go and do so or not.

I see how emotionally it would be really tough to be even getting the numbers and setting up dates with other girls as you mentioned; but yeah am curious as to whether settling fully happens or not… or whether that’s the right question to be asking at all in the first place.

Maybe you get to a point where you get so damn good at sleeping with girls that, you'll have your primary relationship but other girls that you just oops end up sleeping with as well (and don’t really think about them all that much). I listened to the black dragon podcast recently and it was on this topic; but even that guy I wonder if he or any others do at some point quit it all and end up with one woman and raise kids with just her.

Just curious; and interested in hearing what you think especially since you’ve experienced raising a few kids yourself

Cheers,

Rage

 

[ray_zorse]

Yes, interesting philosphical points you raise.

Lately in Mr.Rob's and your journals I read descriptions of seriously successful seducers. Laid back, radiating charm and charisma, fundamentals on perfect lock, makes you feel you're the only person in the room when he turns to you... this really resonates with me and this is what I aspire to be. Another phrase that stuck in my mind was Chase, explaining that even at his level he often gets rejected and shot down: "Due to years of practice I almost always know exactly what to say in any given situation... yet even then, some girls just don't like me". (I'm paraphrasing here, as I have no idea where to locate the quotation). I want to be the guy who almost always knows exactly what to say in any given situation... I want to be a fuckin boss and never submit to social pressure.

As an example I submitted several times to social pressure recently. Once was my sister-in-law who guessed that we were having a baby from something I said about another sister-in-law's newly decorated nursery. Instead of just being charming and mysterious and saying something like "haha, well if we were, I wouldn't even tell you anyway", I blab-blabbed under pressure. It was only 1 day before the official announcement but I still felt really bad for breaking my agreement with Leticia and not telling our parents first. I hastened to damage control explaining the announcement was one day away and she was to shut up till then, but I bet she didn't. As another example, the other night I was feeling really low and I called my platonic buddy (a sexy Thai woman) for a late drink after work. She guessed that something was up, and weaselled it out of me about the chlamydia. I had a plan to tell her in a way that would increase my value, but this fell by the wayside, as I was unprepared to deal with the situation or tell a lie. Cracking under social pressure REALLY FUCKING BOTHERS ME, I improved a lot but...

My fundamentals need a lot of work, particularly eye contact, posture, voice, body... even my fashion, is pretty good but when I have more money and a better body I will take it to a new level. Not breaking circle and scanning... very important but areas where I fall down a lot lately. My unfilteredness also needs work... being too much of a platonic buddy/wanting to be accepted... etc...

So anyway, how do I improve all these things? Simply by approaching lots of women, lots of groups... learning how to AMOG dudes and get the honey... I'm really interested in the bootcamp that Mr.Rob just did. Sounds like really tough medicine to get me to a new and more aggressive level. My game at the moment is a lot more connection-based, I throw in a lot of IDGAF antics and sexual stuff but nothing all that aggressive. In fact my target demographic to date has mainly been shy Asian women (although I've dabbled here and there, fucked some Aussies, Latinas etc) and so it's taken a bit of a specialist approach. But I'm feeling I'm gonna have to change my demographic slightly now that I'm in a relationship because it just feels completely wrong to present myself to these girls as somebody they can get excited about, and then reveal later I'm only in it for FWB and probably not even that, since my available dating window is pretty low and logistics not fantastic either. No problem but I will have to adjust inner+outer game a bit.

Another area I'm struggling with a bit is how to apply game around other guys, I want to be the AMOG and I need to be okay with stuff like tooling guys in my circle, also doing things like chase-framing guys (subtly accusing them of wanting to hang with me and enjoy my value) and being mysterious, I feel an UTTER DICK refusing to tell a guy I'm a researcher and instead saying I'm a secret agent, whereas I'd do this without a second thought when talking to a girl. I need to find compromises that don't make me a dick, but don't make me an open book either. I need to be reflexively gaming girls and guys, even those platonic friends that I'm not interested in, rather than reverting to being a boring girlfriend to them which is what's happening currently (if I'm not "on" I'm not doing all the mysteriousness and so forth). I also need to embrace competition more and hang out with really masculine men so we can practice tooling each other and being dicks, currently I avoid this and prefer to hang out with gentler more feminine men.

End of the day though, it's about attractiveness, and with some minor caveats to do with (1) being nonreactive (2) having my own values (3) being unfiltered regardless of if it kills my attraction with others (4) my social life with men... THE BOTTOM LINE IS WHETHER SHE'S WILLING TO FUCK YOU. I believe it is not possible to practice game without fucking lots of girls on an ongoing basis. Even if it were possible it would not be fun. And this is the thing I've been struggling with... I entered into a monogamous relationship in late July (although in fact I was cheating and this I do not feel good about, lately I ended my other relationship where I had emotional involvement, and I feel better about myself) and for 3 months did basically no approaches. Why did I do no approaches? I couldn't be bothered. It wasn't worth the effort if I couldn't get the honey. Since I'd decided to be monogamous there was just no point gaming... and my whole everything suffered, my fundamentals tanked, my conversation tanked, I stopped being mysterious or challenging and started to be a platonic girlfriend to everyone... I really felt terrible. Exactly how I felt when I was married and emasculated. This simply won't do, and I will never go that path again, EVER.

So, taking into account all the above facts, my current philosophy is, GAME IS A NECESSITY FOR ME, IT IS NOT AN OPTION... there is simply no other way I can become the man I aspire to be, without fucking lots of random women. Leticia has to get on board with this. What she needs to understand is that I still love her, it's just I have my goals, I'm not fucking other women because I don't love her. I've told her that I intend to have extramarital sex but I won't become emotionally involved. My reasoning here (which I didn't explain to her) is, given I want to become GREAT, I couldn't afford emotional involvement with any of my targets anyway, at least not until I hit absolute abundance. She was not totally okay with this, but she didn't actually object or leave. Overall I'm pretty confident of my psychology here, firstly that I'm never going to apologize for my maleness and going aggressively for what I want, secondly that being with a guy that all girls want is going to give her a wet pussy on an ongoing basis, regardless of any drama she might create on a superficial level. Leticia is quite drama-free although not totally. She took the chlamydia episode pretty well, seemed a bit sad/disappointed, and I cringed with embarrassment when our conservative Vietnamese doctor (with whom I've carefully built the impression I'm a devoted family man) shut all the doors of his office and said "WHEN DID YOU HAVE SEX WITH THIS OTHER WOMAN"... but overall Leticia's been fine to just do what we need to do... have the tests and drugs etc and move on... she knows I've been calling former partners and I think everyone (she and they) really respect my honesty. The entire incident has really built my value, since it's reinforced in all these female minds that I have a lot of preselection, while showing them that I respond to difficulties forthrightly and with integrity.

I could write more (for instance I haven't touched on kids very much in the above comments), but I think this gives an overall view where I stand. Thanks Rage for asking.

 

[Rage]

Really neat analysis Ray, and yeah you know it does make sense everything you say about becoming sort of less of a man when you aren't working to sleep with other girls (makes sense in how you describe it).

I feel like it is all sacrifices and we as guys who want big things in our lives set goals and work towards shit, but come to find years down the road that eveyrthing takes sacrifices and if you sacrifice more for one you fall short on another. You can decide to appease your emotions and stay with the girl only and spend aly our time with her and go more deeply into that relationship; but i suppose loss of game and abilities sets in with time (i didnt experience this THAT much but this is because the couple relatioships i was in in the past were not that serious and not that long either).

I feel this way with passions too; go more towards one and can kind of focus less on the other(s). Kinda like how you talked about focusing more on work lately and that affecting your game and stuff.

It is cool that you were able to successfully frame it that way with Leticia and set the crrect precendents; hope that i make good choices and work to do similar when time comes.

Cheers,

Rage

EDIT: btw Ray I got a girl's number yesterday named Ray. She was gorgeous. Haha, will see if anything comes of it

 

[ray_zorse]

Hey thanks for the comments Rage.

I must say I haven't completely been acting on the above manifesto in recent days, I took Leticia to a festival in which thousands of people were getting fucked up and dancing outdoors to wicked techno music, but I felt somewhat responsible for her (since she'd never been to a festival before) and I spent the entire time with Leticia except for brief breaks for shower or toilet etc. I did get slight hints in her behaviour that she might have wanted some space or time alone to explore, but then I'd say something like "I'm thinking of going to get some food, will you be okay for a while" and she'd be like "I'll just be 10 minutes to get ready" so I'm guessing that, like me, she enjoyed spending the time together. I was keen to spend some quality time with Leticia because I'll be going to Japan (to game) in 2 days. We had a really awesome time at the festival.

So a few interesting things happened. Relationship-management wise, I felt myself beta sliding a bit, she was asking for compliance in various things (mostly sensible things) and I felt she was testing me, also I'd fallen back to politeness "could you please do this, ..." etc. So while we were waiting in 2hr queue for entry I ordered her to give me a backrub and she refused compliance saying I had to "say please". She knows I never do this. I laughed and set up a game where I'd eat a delicious mango and say "yum, yum, this is very delicious" while grinning devilishly at her (if she wanted some I'd trade it for the backrub), but she didn't play... we had a fun tussle over the noodle snacks but after this she sulked for a number of hours. I didn't let it faze me. Just ignored her back.

She initiated a little discussion, I tried not to get into a logical argument about it but she framed it as "I think you challenge me" and I wanted to defuse this "I really do want a backrub". Then "Why you don't be polite to me" and I'm like "I don't see you saying please... more like: Close the door. I want fruit. etc" and she's seemed to process this. I could have said something like, "I've been fuckin running around all day organizing shit so that YOU can have a good festival, it's been very expensive and stressful and I've just driven 2hrs and you owe me a fuckin backrub" but this wouldn't have worked, it's very important to avoid logical discussions with women.

We had to speak a little like "here's your passport -- you'd better line up with me in case they check ID"... but otherwise I just froze her out, and after a number of hours she cracked "What do you want from me"... I thought about this for a moment, laughed and said teasingly "Doesn't matter anymore"... point is she cracked. She then started this whole needy act "I'm cold... I'm hungry... get me a XXX" and I'm like "they're in the car, it's over there"... then started saying her back hurt, needed a backrub... I've like cracked up with laughter "NO! ENN OHH! NO! I can't believe you are trying this on! haha! NO!". Women's tests! Well it's reassuring to know that Leticia is a highly feminine woman, able to test me frequently and in all situations.

So after this she was very warm and affectionate, as always happens when you stand your ground to your girl. In fact we got to the dance floor eventually after setting up the camp, and she was dressed in very sexy clothes with lots of makeup on, and going crazy to the music, and frequently grinding on me like to say "This is MY FUCKING MAN... keep your distance chicks". We were doing lots of sexy shit, I reciprocated her attentions and did lots of teasing stuff, but I made sure she was chasing just a little bit more. It never works if you get clingy. In fact I introduced myself to lots of guys and girls and generally had a sweet time. My radar picked up about 5-6 women who were DTF and were paying me lots of extra attention. Two of them I met in the brief periods when I didn't have Leticia with me, and they seemed a bit excited to meet me, was wondering if I could secretly game them but this didn't eventuate (met them later and introduced to Leticia, but continued to flirt a bit, cuddle them etc).

My eye contact flirting was very on point this weekend. I was wearing eye makeup, in fact I have these blue and green tailored suits with flared pants that I wear to dance parties for a sexy James Bond look, I wear them with no suit and with blue and green eye makeup and painted nails, my hair done in a Daniel Craig style and it's very fuckin popular, lots of girls come up to me to compliment me etc... I could definitely have made something of these interations... peacocking is so powerful... but I digress, I was wearing eye makeup, and I'd catch a sexy girl's eye and then narrow my eyes and give her a sexy stare... then if she held that for a bit I'd slowly lick my lips... makes them wet. Mmm it's very important to get in a good habit, so that if you accidentally catch eye contact with a sexy woman you can capitalize rather than looking away etc.

Another interesting thing that happened was partway through the festival I started to feel really fatigued and a bit lightheaded, I told Leticia I was fine and would get my energy back with a bit of dancing, but she was really worried about me (I think in hindsight because I was not leading strongly)... we sat down for a bit... I wondered if maybe I'd accidentally ingested some drugs. I took her to the dancefloor, but then meekly allowed her to lead me right past it and back to the tent. I was worried about my poor leadership "Leticia we cannot go to the camp now... it is 40 degrees and there is no shade, we cannot sit in the tent, it will be too hot", but then I realized we had a spare tent which is designed as a beach shelter so continued "ahh no it's okay I know what to do". Salvaged a LITTLE leadership here.

Leticia told me I had a temperature and would not allow me to get up or do anything until the sun went down, so I just lay on my back and let her put cold towels on my body, it felt kind of good, even though I don't agree with manipulating one's body temperature when one has a fever (I think it's a natural mechanism your body uses to fight illness and should be left alone). Eventually we realized we had a first aid kit in the car so she got me some aspirin and a thermometer, my temperature was 38.6. Yeah, I really didn't feel good. But I was happy to just relinquish leadership for a while and be a patient. I must say that Leticia is a really fantastic partner, she really cares for me deeply and no amount of attention is too much for her to pay. I had never experienced anything like this prior to GC.

I made something of a recovery, we had a dance that evening and then slept all night (meaning I missed one of the two acts I'd wanted to see, but whatever... my brothers and cousins apparently were going sick, taking a lot of drugs and partying till the sun came up, pity I missed it but I was REALLY sick)... the next day still didn't really feel all that social and wasn't tearing it up on the dancefloor, but around midday I recovered a bit and started introducing myself to people... one girl really had eyes on me, we turned it into a kind of a dance battle where I was grinding on Leticia and she was grinding on her hot girlfriend and making kissy faces at me. If I'd been in state I might have done a swap and ground on her, but I suppose I was being a bit beta and considering Leticia's feelings... bad idea, but I suppose balance is needed. When we're having real quality time and being very close I think it might be a bit of an asshole move to go grinding on other girls, SHE KNOWS I CAN GET GIRLS, no need to prove it.

I had an interesting discussion with my cousin (before I got sick, this was on the first night when Leticia was sleeping and I woke up and went to the dancefloor to see if my family had arrived yet)... congratulated me on the pregnancy and so on... then he asked if I was taking myself off the market. He knows I game, he's into game himself although he has a cute blonde girlfriend now... I said "ohh for the most part"... he's like "what?" so I explained some GC theory about how women don't respect you once you cut down your options and he's like "yeah I can certainly see how that works"... I've then explained that I've successfully kept Leticia chasing for over a year and that's why we're still acting like teenagers in love and getting people come up to us on the dancefloor and commenting on it... I explained that Leticia has to always be a little bit uncertain of whether she's really got me 100% pinned down, because she knows I AM or MIGHT BE laying other girls. He's like "hmm interesting theory" and I'm like "well the proof is in the pudding, look at her behaviour..." then explained that nothing I do actually hurts her, in fact I'm doing her a big favour by sending her the subconscious message "MY MAN is a man that ALL GIRLS WANT"... making her value me and herself more highly and thereby feel good about herself, despite any superficial drama.

So, things are in a pretty good state with Leticia... I spent the weekend having quality time with her and doing all sorts of lovey-dovey stuff, but I watched my investment level and didn't become clingy, which might have been a risk had I not been careful. Her attraction seems to be in a good place at the moment. I'm happy (but still sick).

 

[ray_zorse]

I have been having breakup talks with Sayuri over the past 3 weeks. Although I should not really be apologizing for my masculine needs and frame, it is hard not to get drawn into her frame of how I had betrayed her and hurt her and blah blah. Mostly I've avoided this, but... well, around the time of the chlamydia diagnosis she randomly decided to NEXT me which has been quite concerning, hasn't replied to my texts or calls, even though I've been quite anxious to contact her and get her to take a test. Eventually this morning I decided I was out of options and I had to put the information in an email and hope she'd read it instead of deleting unread. She did reply and we've had quite a good talk since then. Having said that, I was pretty beta, and I wonder if the talk was more to satisfy my own needs than hers. But whatever. If there was any possibility of salvaging this as an FWB then it's gone, but I wouldn't have wanted to do that anyway. Women should not be expected to handle a backward step in your relationship. But, given my behaviour hadn't been 100% good, I decided it was important to give her closure. I let her understand that, as long as I still dreamed of a future for us eventually (which I did), then I was okay to continue the relationship, but if that changed I had to end the relationship immediately. Also that I felt taking our relationship to a serious level (meeting parents etc) was a mistake, for the reasons I'd explained to her at the time, and I wished I had been stronger in keeping things fun and sexy rather than serious. She appreciates my honesty, and we agreed that we had a fun and sexy time together. No regrets. So I feel somewhat better about things. I hope that I can meet with her.

 

[ProblemSolving]

explained that nothing I do actually hurts her, in fact I'm doing her a big favour by sending her the subconscious message "MY MAN is a man that ALL GIRLS WANT"... making her value me and herself more highly and thereby feel good about herself, despite any superficial drama.

This is really what it's all about. Brilliantly said. Too bad most guys have too much scarcity to handle the superficial drama that comes with keeping a girl's attraction red hot. A bit of relationship insecurity is required to keep both parties in a relationship lusting after each other, but a man's natural instinct is to kill any hint of insecurity, and ultimately kill attraction in the relationship.

 

[ray_zorse]

Hmm so yesterday I spent time with a girl with whom I friendzoned myself/put myself in an orbiter slot some years back prior to GC when I was still in scarcity... kind of mixed feelings about this. NEXTed her when I realized she was using me as an emotional tampon and I would probably never get where I wanted to go with her... if she can be believed she really respects and looks up to and admires me etc... and certainly seemed thrilled that I had contacted her after 2~3yrs and would be in her area... and anxious to hang out. OTOH I am sure lots of girls say that shit to their orbiters and mean it, just as an unconscious part of the beta-ization process... sigh, things might have been very different if I hadn't already had a gf when we met. Thing is that knowing her as well as I do, I am just not sure I am attracted anymore, except in a physical sense... hmm so my goal for this meeting was keep my fundamentals in check and use preselection, like dropping details of girls I've fucked around with here and there (without being too obvious or qualifying myself) and lots of bf-disqualification (no intention of any LTR or marriage or any of that shit)... I think I mostly succeeded in these goals although I drank more than I would like and loosened up somewhat, but I don't think this had any ill effects. I was really only doing this for practice since I have no intention of taking things anywhere with this girl... ehh still feel quite beta and that I am not being true to myself, but I think it is far too late to express attraction now. Frustrating thing is I had her in my hotel room for 40min or so and did not make a move, not so much that I pussied out but I just wasn't getting flirtatiousness or excitement on her part other than (close) friendliness so I just didn't think it would be successful, also I guess she's part of an ecosystem that I did not want to disturb (I ended up having dinner with her older sister's family at their house and it was a wonderful experience as usual -- I wished I could tell them about Leticia and my baby though, but I acted as if I'm a single playboy). I remember Drexel's comment that his reputation and standing is more important to him than sex with any particular girl, and I guess that was my reasoning in not making a move (I'm convinced it would have been a "Hail Mary" situation and resulted in undesirable consequences, even though it's true I wasn't being true to myself here). Besides which, she told me she has a fiance now, ehh he sounds like a good guy, JP guy, but probably more of a platonic girlfriend to her than a real man. Based on past knowledge of this girl I bet they have not had sex yet. I foresee big problems for her since she is, like all hot girls, quite adept at beta-izing dudes and thereby killing attraction, but ehh her shit is her shit and IDC anymore... that's reason I do not want to get involved with her though, if I was meeting her for the first time I could set lots of sexually free and non judgemental frames and force her to qualify herself to them and thereby make her into the sort of girl I want, but what has actually happened is in her long sessions of blab blab and using me as an emotional tampon and soliciting long and detailed advice from me that she never follows... she has painted herself as a "no sex before marriage" type girl and accordingly I believe the best I could hope for is a makeout. Fuck that. Well, anyway my homies will see from reading this detailed analysis that I am still quite invested mentally, but that's for historic reasons and I feel better having written this. Would appreciate others' opinions. I did about 3 approaches the last 3 days that I was proud of, umm but pussied out on many more. Anyway just trying to get over my flu right now.

 

[ray_zorse]

So I am in Japan about halfway through my trip, when I realized I was sick I scheduled a trip to Tokyo to hang out with buddies, and although I was not gaming hard I ended up with various numbers in my phone. In fact girl just texts me as I am writing this, I pulled her from club but failed to persuade her to come to my hotel or I go to hers "Wan naito stando no thankyou!" she says, a test that I failed (passed a few of her tests but eventually got tired and dropped the ball)... so I dunno if she is a time waster or what. Other girls seemed receptive, I was to meet one today but she overslept, she was quite apologetic but I had already left for Osaka. I really need to hit it hard from tomorrow and generate new leads, fuck these Tokyo girls I am not going back there so deal with it...

Anyway facing some mental issues but I think I just have to get back to basics and set myself a target like 10 approaches before I can go home. Normally isn't necessary but I realize Mr.Rob's post from RSDTyler was quite true, I was seeing myself as a guy who had paid his dues and didn't need to take massive action anymore. Well I do need to. So there.

 

[Seppuku]

Ray,

So many things you write ring a bell here. I have two long distance relations with two girls, Olivia and Jenna, from my previous trips in Asia. I can see their wild attempts at beta-izing me. It starts with owning my time and brain with constant solicitations for chats and video calls, then trying to get me say things such as commitment etc... Then throwing me drama (because I didn't give in). It really helps to push back and use the soft NEXT veto power. The first I radio silenced for a month. The second I rejected her calls for some time then explained that the next time she'll be out without warning. Sounds tough, but what they were doing was tough, too. And in the end, it works like a charm. But the vigilance cannot end... it's just a matter of time. They will test and test and try again to beta-ize. It's also important that they sort of guess that there are other girls... without mentioning it explicitly. Keeping them on their toes. You need to give a bit of what they want, but not too much. They must feel they have a shot, but without being able to own you completely. It's being attainable, but just enough. Seems you manage a good job with Leticia, by framing the interaction right since the beginning. What I'm trying to do with Jenna. So far so good, but if I move to Cebu in 6 months time (where she lives) how will I be able to simultaneously be with her, and continue to enjoy a good sex with all these beautiful girls there... What you are facing with Leticia.

Now what is the point of learning seduction, if it's only about getting numbers. I see it also as a way to get better relationships with women, i.e. on much favorable terms for you. Here, there are still tons of things to learn. And the first thing is to constantly have new inflow of girls. It's too easy to fall into complacency and lay back, as you say "The guy who has paid his dues", and this is what I have experienced already two times (like right now). Can't afford to relax. Will need to kick my ass again into action... Like you're doing.

This girl from your pre GC days, it's a lost case. I know the feeling too well! So hard to put the frame right after having fucked so massively. Don't worry I have tons of similar cases from my past and I think all guys do. Easier to focus on doing things right with new girls.

Being a specialist with Asians. I don't have a problem with that. As a middle age white guy you are automatically high value for them. It saves you half of the trouble. Why not enjoying it. The only thing you need to worry about is attainability, plus the sexy side. Same holds with black girls, by the way.

Enjoy Japan! By the way my pseudo, Seppuku, is from the Seppuku Maru, special place for the ritual suicide, in Himeji Castle, Japan. Very impressive. I was there in 1997.

Cheers,
Seppuku

 

[ray_zorse]

So I have done some approaching in Tennoji and Namba, had 5 or 6 longer convo including a kind of coffee insta date with nurse of incredible hotness I met in Starbucks queue, unfortunately my inner game wasn't quite up to it as I kept thinking "I cannot believe this beautiful woman is sitting with me and chatting", convo was small talk with a few attempts at deep dive, got no. but think lost attraction later, who cares I am happy that my approaching habit is coming back. I can add frills when I am having more conversations. Unfortunately, runny nose and particularly BLOCKED EARS are sabotaging my interactions, finding it hard to hear except brief moments of clarity, but I'm having a funny time so that's what matters.

 

[ray_zorse]

Ah so. After my last post I gathered some mojo, went to another place and had various conversations including a useful coffee insta date with a girl I was quite excited about, connected very well... unfortunately the date today was a disappointment, although I am happy that I pulled her to my hotel room a few minutes in, will have to emulate that in future. Unfortunately didn't capitalize, but picked up some useful reference points on MOVING FASTER and dealing with well meaning cockblocks. So after the disappointing end to the date my mojo was pretty much fucked and I was gonna just throw in the towel but I'm proud of the fact I bounced back and did bar, club and restaurant and night street game till 2am, hit it off with 4 or 5 chicks to varying degrees, tried to pull one after some "Nice to meet you" type disappointment with another girl I really liked but nogo. Anyway I am pretty pleased with myself, I did not get laid but I am taking massive action and that's what counts. Honestly I am back to pretty much where I was at when I started (mostly platonic interactions and not being a challenge to women) but with a better approaching habit I can start re-adding those things. Fuck, it is not easy...

I engaged about 20-25 women in conversation, introduced myself to another 20-25 and spoke to (or waved at or blew kisses to) a further 40-50 in the last few days. Unfortunately because I was sick the first 5 days of the trip were a total waste and now I'm about 7 days in. This is the point I usually stop collecting numbers and focus on instant dates/lays, although there are a few interactions (several pairs of younger girls in the train or the station, plus an older woman heading to meer her friend who seemed very receptive) where I now wish I had grabbed a number. Well shit eh. Getting better at these kinds of snap decisions really takes experience doesn't it.

So the thing is that just now that I am hitting my stride I have committed myself to take time out for tourism, well I could cancel but I think my ego needs a break and I genuinely want to do tourism. So with some regret I realize I probably won't get laid this trip, which is unusual, but shit happens. I will go to see the Seppuku Maru (means suicide circle) recommended by Seppuku. Thanks Seppuku! Original plan (on my part) was that my ex-gf Sayuri would either join me, or I would go a couple of hours out of my way to meet her in her home town as part of the journey, but frankly she is being a bitch. I am really disappointed because I thought we had a good thing going, IDGAF about relationship or sex, I have never really cared much about that b/c I can get it elsewhere, but I care about HER and I miss her and I want to hug her and talk about things and assure her that I still care no matter what. Well fuck her. I feel quite disappointed by her behaviour given that my feelings for her never changed and my relationship with Leticia was basically my private business that unfortunately became public knowledge due to the pregnancy. But Sayuri seems to feel she has the fuckin monopoly on being injured and hurt, and that I do not care for some reason. She's often been like this, basically minimizing or trivializing my feelings, and I think it is quite selfish and immature. I have almost had enough of her shit and I am thinking of blocking her and deleting her number and emails... but it's reactive and too much work to do so. Anyway I KNOW she could make time to see me in coming days if she wanted to... claims she does not know what time she finishes tomorrow which is bullshit, but nevertheless I replied "I hope you message me when finished", thus allowing her to hold leverage. Message read and no reply. Honestly I will have to cut all contact before I do any more damage. This will be really hard. FUCK FUCK FUCK, a very shitty situation.

Anyway. I will sleep now and do my tourism in the morning. At least I have a pornographic video sent to me by Leticia tonight to masturbate to. And various other chicks including disappointing-date chick messaging me and wasting my time.