Another pua commits' suicide Johnny Berba

[Skills]

I can not relate to ever feeling suicidal or ever went through my mind, even during low down moments such as post break ups, i don't think that ever went through my head.... But you have all these puas that try to commit suicide or even kill themselves, though they have been in the space and are not beginners', kind of sad if you ask me, examples:

- Sinn
-Mystery
- Alex Rsd (who was teaching inner game)
- Tom Torero
- Jonny Berba

^ obviously i can go on and on, and i can talk about pre pua many people that were suicidal, but in these case is post pua.... Anyways, sad to see the dude even made a video which i find bizard about help in no committing suicide...

 

[Bill]

He had OCD and money issues I believe.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Never heard of the guy, but RIP.

To bring 2 threads together - a lot of the Mystery Method was about "binding a woman's soul" - and that he wanted the his conquests to stay with him forever. She's not yours unless you've banged her 3 times or something like that.

I don't know if that speaks to something deeper within his psyche, but some of us just want to get our dicks sucked on a Friday night, not find a soul mate.

A lot of that deep diving and emotional investment will obviously hook the girl pretty hard - but "strangers in the night" can be healthy as well, especially for guys 18-28 - when they're really still trying to figure out themselves AND what they like and want in a long term partner.

 

[Atlas IV]

That's incredibly sad.

I don't know much about the others, but I was (and still am) a huge follower of Tom Torero. I have most of his material/infields downloaded, and used to listen to his podcast regularly when I was going through the first couple of years of game.

He was my role model for daygame - he had so many great ways of sexualizing the interaction in that cocky, cheeky British style. I'd even planned to get coaching with him once I had enough money to afford it. By the time I could, it was too late.

He definitely struggled with depression. He often spoke about how he saw daygame as the best form of therapy. By the end of it, he was embracing the "stoic" lifestyle - a lone ranger travelling across Europe in a van, picking up girls wherever he went. I guess he was running away from some inner demons, and he probably felt socially isolated. No doubt the money problems contributed to it too (the cherry on top being crucified by that nasty journalist who made it her mission to destroy him).

I think it's logical that niche obsessions like PUA attract people with mental illness. We even see them drift into the forum from time to time.

Of course, that doesn't mean every PUA is like that. I'd like to think that the vast majority of us are normal guys, living normal lives, and that these tragic examples are just the outliers that tend to grab the spotlight whenever something like this happens.

 

[Chase]

Wasn’t familiar with Johnny Berba, but this is sad.

I met a guy at a PUA business owners mastermind in 2014 who later took his own life. Didn’t know the guy before and hadn’t talked to him since but we talked for like 40 minutes at the mastermind. He was running some kind of L.A. dance studio for women but seemed a little lost about what direction he wanted to go in life. A mutual contact let me know he’d killed himself in 2019 I think it was.

There’s a fair chunk of guys who go into PUA trying to heal some wounds they have. This space is also attractive to dudes with extreme personalities; especially true for guys who hang around and become gurus. Your normal average dude is not going to stay a PUA then become a PUA guru and make this his career. Or if he is he’s just a marketing guy who isn’t going for some public “guru” image.

I’ve known some proficient PUAs who struggled with suicidal thoughts. Banging a bunch of girls doesn’t fix this. It’s better than being an incel (lol) but if you’re still depressed after shagging a bunch, having cool girlfriends, etc., you’ve got another thing to deal with.

My recommendation as always is to tackle the depression at the root… to understand its cause within the mind and fix it there:

How to Overcome Depression

Was discussing this on a forum with a guy; I used to talk about it a fair amount, some time back, but it's sort of faded from my life in significance. It just isn't on my mind much these days anymore, but I do remember how big a deal it was for me once, and hopefully my story and process can...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[Swati]

I never even heard of the dude. Watched for 15 seconds and he came spilling the same talking points. Wanna be the man! Turn my life around!

Yeah, so this one kind of hit home because I have wings who are in the field, in night game and they're learning from a different School than me which is mainly from the direct approach schools RSD people. If I were to have gone down the route of direct approach or english day game I would have been banging my head on bricks.

In each market, you have your peak depending on your fundamental, calibration, and intelligence game level that could reach. How many lays they could get, what kind of social frame they fit into, and tools at your disposal. A lot of the mainstream guys don't understand what to fix. With the minimal game and high effort, you overexert yourself, you're going to get minimum results and a lot of these YouTuber's coaches are nothing but a low intermediate level at best, not PUA, they're not social wizards. My wings, I see their passion, motivation, and characteristics that we're good at one point start to deteriorate or start to become jealous or abnormal behavior exhibited by them. Pickup could be a dangerous thing if you make it only identity. This is why I said early in the discord that if you reached a certain level you could scale back a bit and focus on other areas of life just being a normal human for a couple of months, get a girlfriend/s, and then continue again

There are dumb statements like

"If you do something 10,000 times you are bound to be a master"

"ehhhh, if you were to do something "WRONG" 10k times aren't you enforcing mistake to be correct?!"

cuz the void of the black hole will never be filled

PUA could have weirdos too, but generally, they are way smarter and have a lot of education in various fields. I appreciate that when they are "weird" they have no big ass ego about it, they are just carefree and a bit weird, and it's fine!

Cult leaders and these wannabe picking "gurus" use the typical marketing hypnosis on people who lack direction finding a common enemy and uniting together against an enemy and always having something to be striving for which mainly is the feminine, money, and women. Speaking figuratively with no directions, taking up the estate in their mental space in formless directions causes high levels of stress resulting in them committing suicide.

"Are you being yourself?! Are you alpha enough?! Are you the king in your social circle !?"

^ These types of stupid fucking questions... it works on the average people with an above average ambition. As much as it works for their customers, they got high off their own supply LMAO

retards need to learn their roles in life

"youtube coach" students could become pretty toxic and dangerous egoistic morons, I have an intuition to keep more distance from them. Attainability has to be practiced among wings cause you do too well they often seeth and become toxic.

Just thought I shared what I have seen and experienced.

Thank God Girlschase exists.

 

[Skills]

Never heard of the guy, but RIP.

To bring 2 threads together - a lot of the Mystery Method was about "binding a woman's soul" - and that he wanted the his conquests to stay with him forever. She's not yours unless you've banged her 3 times or something like that.

I don't know if that speaks to something deeper within his psyche, but some of us just want to get our dicks sucked on a Friday night, not find a soul mate.

A lot of that deep diving and emotional investment will obviously hook the girl pretty hard - but "strangers in the night" can be healthy as well, especially for guys 18-28 - when they're really still trying to figure out themselves AND what they like and want in a long term partner.

I thought i was the one that came up with the banging 3 times, I did not know mystery came to same conclusion... Are you sure mystery mentioned that... I never read or heard him...

But anyways i just feel like some guys never get to master or work on the inner game stuff.... People used to troll the inner game stuff, that is why i have always recommended models from Manson for the inner game stuff, not the outer game..

 

[Spyce D]

I know how it feels to have an extreme personality .

RIP .

 

[KJ Francis]

I thought i was the one that came up with the banging 3 times, I did not know mystery came to same conclusion... Are you sure mystery mentioned that... I never read or heard him...

But anyways i just feel like some guys never get to master or work on the inner game stuff.... People used to troll the inner game stuff, that is why i have always recommended models from Manson for the inner game stuff, not the outer game..

Yes here on his site S3 says "it is necessary to do this several times to begin the sexual relationship"

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/20d726_05f53fa7c5ce4addabef7fdb9f1b7c22~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_786,h_743,al_c,q_85,enc_auto/M3-Model.jpg

in the Venusian Artist Handbook "It is necessary to have sex several times before the sexual relationship actually begins. During and even after this point she will continue testing you for congruence"

He says "it's not until you've had sex three times where you see a pattern of it being a sexual relationship" Here at 1 hours and 59 seconds

 

[KJ Francis]

I don't know if that speaks to something deeper within his psyche, but some of us just want to get our dicks sucked on a Friday night, not find a soul mate.

ok, done derailing...

R.I.P. Johnny

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

But anyways i just feel like some guys never get to master or work on the inner game stuff.... People used to troll the inner game stuff, that is why i have always recommended models from Manson for the inner game stuff, not the outer game..

IMO, there's "inner game" in regards to pick up - and then there are people with traumas, unresolved issues, deep self esteem problems, etc.

The latter, imo, need to see trained professionals.

Pick Up is like improv, sales, comedy, roleplaying games, making pottery, drag racing, doing crossword puzzles - it's a hobby, it's a pursuit - but it doesn't fix all of your problems.

I think most of us early in our success, end up with more girls than we know what to do with.

 

[Skills]

Yes here on his site S3 says "it is necessary to do this several times to begin the sexual relationship"

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/20d726_05f53fa7c5ce4addabef7fdb9f1b7c22~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_786,h_743,al_c,q_85,enc_auto/M3-Model.jpg

in the Venusian Artist Handbook "It is necessary to have sex several times before the sexual relationship actually begins. During and even after this point she will continue testing you for congruence"

He says "it's not until you've had sex three times where you see a pattern of it being a sexual relationship" Here at 1 hours and 59 seconds

Jesus! I wish i read that tbh lost a lot of girls after my break up, due to not knowing this... And even posted on nextasf asking for help... Nobody told me including west who was around back then... Well there goes my patent...

IMO, there's "inner game" in regards to pick up - and then there are people with traumas, unresolved issues, deep self esteem problems, etc.

The latter, imo, need to see trained professionals.

Pick Up is like improv, sales, comedy, roleplaying games, making pottery, drag racing, doing crossword puzzles - it's a hobby, it's a pursuit - but it doesn't fix all of your problems.

I think most of us early in our success, end up with more girls than we know what to do with.

Excellent point

 

[isildur1]

Johnny Berba (Jonathan O’Halloran) Commits Suicide – My Thoughts

Disclaimer: I am not a dating coach nor am I selling any dating products or services this blog is really for recreational usage to reflect on my previous experiences in daygame and to share my insi…

mindful-masculinity.org

Johnny Berba (Real name Jonathan O’Halloran) who passed away November 12th 2024 became the second UK dating coach to commit suicide in the span of three years – the first being Tom Torero who passed December 2021 . Johnny was known to have suffered from anxiety, depression,OCD, parental trauma from an abusive dad and financial issues including tax debt (which he talked about on his blog) . In one of his final Youtube videos he was recorded to have said it was difficult to make it through the day highlighting major problems with his OCD . His death marks a dark few years with the manosphere, with Alan Roger Currie , Tom Torero , Kevin Samuels and Coach Redpill all having passed in a short space of time.

Ill make it clear I am no Johnny Berba fan- but was saddened to hear about his death yesterday morning. I first met Johnny while day gaming in London in 2017 when a wingman of mine was taking coaching from him and to be honest I wasn’t that impressed with him as an individual- he appeared in pretty mediocre dress , seemed a bit anxious overall gave off a weird vibe . He complained to me that his interactions weren’t going as well as pre- online dating boom of 2014 with him stating that his reactions were getting considerably worse in 2017-2018 than they were during 2010-2014 – was this due to online dating ruining romantic love or to do with Johnny himself declining as an individual I am not so sure. But “smv” wise I was underwhelmed – my wing who coached under him would note that during sets he would spam approach a huge amount too in Covent Garden at one stage security even got involved – I am not so sure of his social calibration and watching YouTube videos of him he seems a bit agitated and too self-help gimmicky – uploading blow out infields as a sign of authenticity which might be interpreted in some situtions lack of social calibration rather than anything else due to his high “sasha daygame” like aura . You’d have thought after 10 years in the PUA sphere the guy would’ve at least dressed a bit better and be clean shaven, socially calibrated and not spam so much but maybe I am coming across arrogant and dickish in my analysis .

He’s the second British dating coach in the space of three years to commit suicide – Tom and Johnny had similar problems that might have contributed to their deaths- For they both had histories with anxiety and depression and both seemingly could have had financial issues that contributed to their deaths- with Tom’s PayPal account and YouTube blocked after that Danya Hajjaji article that exposed him and his real name. Johnny had financial issues and seemingly a tax burden which he was vocal about on his YouTube . It seemed he was under financial stress burdened with mental health issues this financial stress seemed to make his OCD even worse as he noted in his Youtube dairies. With Tom it was the loss of income streams, with paypal shutting his account , the exposure of his identity online and similar depression issues that drove him to kill himself. It’s sad to see two British daygame coaches meeting a similar premature fate. I am not Johnny Fan but with 36k YouTube subscribers his influence is obvious and watching his infields in 2017- though not really liking them myself it was clear to see he was inspiring people from reading the comment sections so who gives a fuck what I think.

Dating Coaches With Mental Issues become “Life Coaches” and “daygame instructors”

What I found hypocritical about the men’s self help dating scene was seemingly men with overburdening mental health issues becoming self help coaches and trying to lead men out of their own dating and sex relationship problems. The whole thing seemed a bit daft to me how Johnny Berba has been making 10-15 years of self help content but was unable to help himself out of a his own mental issues and financial problems. The same could be applied to Tom Torero who was often telling people on his podcasts to man up and take responsibility- this is echoed by Mystery who seemingly looked very depressed in his comeback interviews (albeit of course he had recently lost his mother and sister – plus the loss of custody of his children) For all the “you can do , and never give up bro” these people seemingly gave up and paid the ultimate price . Which begs the question to the people looking up to these guys If the gurus that I look up-to can’t hold it together themselves is it really worth taking advice or coaching from them? When I met Johnny as I said before I wasn’t impressed there was something off about him- but looking at comments on youtube he was inspiring thousands and my wingmen enjoyed his content and one even hired him for coaching- I disagree with John Anthony’s thesis that Berba was a complete flop of a PUA – he did get results for two people that I winged who were coached under him with but still I saw him as someone who looked drained even seeing him 7 years before his suicide.


Johnny in his later years seemed himself to have lost weight and seemed to be continually blogging about his life – I’d consider this oversharing , if you have a financial issue why share it with the world it just looks weak and desperate in my opinion and isn’t something that people who are socially calibrated should do. He’d share details about his addictions to porn and prostitution – this may have drawn him a lot of clientele but I’d say some problems are best kept anonymously to yourself- also I found it weird how 15 years of pua and dating he seemingly failed to draw proper LTRs in the recent years – maybe his mental health was a reason behind the relationships failing to hold for the long term. It seems that the likes of him , Mystery , Ross Jefferies have failed to lock in a proper LTR despite years of study and coaching on dating. His consistency in the gym didn’t seem to be helping out either despite him making improvements to his body he still came across looking rough in the last few years which he’s been releasing content. He most definitely needed some psychiatric help with his OCD which he was unable to control – for me personally my mental health issues were solved with infrared sauna , clean diet and exercise – Infrared Sauna for me personally got rid of approach anxiety. Im not sure if this is an adequate cure for OCD but it seemed that Johnny was very isolated for someone who should be a social dating coach he seemed to have few friends that could be with him at a time of need and no woman there to support him which again I find odd- even Torero after sleeping with 100s of women seemingly didn’t have one to take care of him in his time of need.

Dangers of Falling Behind in your Social Life

It was clear that Johnny had a rough life – issues with mental health and seemingly a lack of social awareness – his excessive sharing of his private life for me was one thing that made me feel like he wasn’t right in the head. But for men today social isolation at a young age, trauma and abuse has its costs further down the line- if men can’t build and form relationships with other men, if they can’t build solid relationships with women , if they can’t get their finances in order than this can leave them being vulnerable. For me personally my failure to land a proper girlfriend until my 4 year of daygame in 2022 aged 28 – I had realised I’d missed on a lot of social opportunities – luckily through daygame some of those social opportunities were resurrected and now i finally have a loving girlfriend but I was still very lonely from the ages of 16-24 and I do regret not doing daygame earlier on – it would’ve made my life a lot easier today. For many men they miss out on these opportunities and resort to porn or prostitution to fill the void – to give them the illusion of love and a sense of belonging (especially those with video game addictions) Falling behind has consequences and getting back on the bandwagon can be tough for some and maybe impossible to get back on that horse- either starting too late or just being too anxious and procrastinating, making excuses so to never start at all. Johnny’s death has reminded me of the importance to keep going, to show mental strength and vigour and continuing to improve my social circle and my SMV – I don’t have mental health issues but I am also aware that its important for those who do to seek help and support- my thoughts on anti depressants? I think I really don’t know enough to have an opinion but know that they can have some really bad side effects sometimes the cure can be worse than the disease but of course it varies from person to person .

Concluding Thoughts :

I think its tough to analyse this as I don’t know about OCD, I think that might not have been the only thing to take him into suicide as there was also the issue of his financial issues and the history of depression and anxiety both of which had plagued Tom Torero in the past too. But it should be known that whoever you look up in life everyone has their problems and their issues – a lot of dating coaches out there have mental problems heck even Jordan Peterson much loved by the manosphere is hooked on antidepressants and opioids. You only got one life to live so continually seek to improve it so you never end up indebted and alone like Johnny did- its a ruthless world out there and takes a lot of determination to survive it and don’t ever take what you have for granted. I am not a Johnny Berba fan but with 33k Youtube subscribers and seeing his clients get genuine success his impact is undeniable. It may not have been to the heights of Tom Torero and he most definitely lacked the Social Suave of The Natural Lifestyles but his impact will live long in the lives of many.

 

[Skills]

Johnny Berba (Jonathan O’Halloran) Commits Suicide – My Thoughts

Disclaimer: I am not a dating coach nor am I selling any dating products or services this blog is really for recreational usage to reflect on my previous experiences in daygame and to share my insi…

mindful-masculinity.org

Johnny Berba (Real name Jonathan O’Halloran) who passed away November 12th 2024 became the second UK dating coach to commit suicide in the span of three years – the first being Tom Torero who passed December 2021 . Johnny was known to have suffered from anxiety, depression,OCD, parental trauma from an abusive dad and financial issues including tax debt (which he talked about on his blog) . In one of his final Youtube videos he was recorded to have said it was difficult to make it through the day highlighting major problems with his OCD . His death marks a dark few years with the manosphere, with Alan Roger Currie , Tom Torero , Kevin Samuels and Coach Redpill all having passed in a short space of time.

Ill make it clear I am no Johnny Berba fan- but was saddened to hear about his death yesterday morning. I first met Johnny while day gaming in London in 2017 when a wingman of mine was taking coaching from him and to be honest I wasn’t that impressed with him as an individual- he appeared in pretty mediocre dress , seemed a bit anxious overall gave off a weird vibe . He complained to me that his interactions weren’t going as well as pre- online dating boom of 2014 with him stating that his reactions were getting considerably worse in 2017-2018 than they were during 2010-2014 – was this due to online dating ruining romantic love or to do with Johnny himself declining as an individual I am not so sure. But “smv” wise I was underwhelmed – my wing who coached under him would note that during sets he would spam approach a huge amount too in Covent Garden at one stage security even got involved – I am not so sure of his social calibration and watching YouTube videos of him he seems a bit agitated and too self-help gimmicky – uploading blow out infields as a sign of authenticity which might be interpreted in some situtions lack of social calibration rather than anything else due to his high “sasha daygame” like aura . You’d have thought after 10 years in the PUA sphere the guy would’ve at least dressed a bit better and be clean shaven, socially calibrated and not spam so much but maybe I am coming across arrogant and dickish in my analysis .

He’s the second British dating coach in the space of three years to commit suicide – Tom and Johnny had similar problems that might have contributed to their deaths- For they both had histories with anxiety and depression and both seemingly could have had financial issues that contributed to their deaths- with Tom’s PayPal account and YouTube blocked after that Danya Hajjaji article that exposed him and his real name. Johnny had financial issues and seemingly a tax burden which he was vocal about on his YouTube . It seemed he was under financial stress burdened with mental health issues this financial stress seemed to make his OCD even worse as he noted in his Youtube dairies. With Tom it was the loss of income streams, with paypal shutting his account , the exposure of his identity online and similar depression issues that drove him to kill himself. It’s sad to see two British daygame coaches meeting a similar premature fate. I am not Johnny Fan but with 36k YouTube subscribers his influence is obvious and watching his infields in 2017- though not really liking them myself it was clear to see he was inspiring people from reading the comment sections so who gives a fuck what I think.

Dating Coaches With Mental Issues become “Life Coaches” and “daygame instructors”

What I found hypocritical about the men’s self help dating scene was seemingly men with overburdening mental health issues becoming self help coaches and trying to lead men out of their own dating and sex relationship problems. The whole thing seemed a bit daft to me how Johnny Berba has been making 10-15 years of self help content but was unable to help himself out of a his own mental issues and financial problems. The same could be applied to Tom Torero who was often telling people on his podcasts to man up and take responsibility- this is echoed by Mystery who seemingly looked very depressed in his comeback interviews (albeit of course he had recently lost his mother and sister – plus the loss of custody of his children) For all the “you can do , and never give up bro” these people seemingly gave up and paid the ultimate price . Which begs the question to the people looking up to these guys If the gurus that I look up-to can’t hold it together themselves is it really worth taking advice or coaching from them? When I met Johnny as I said before I wasn’t impressed there was something off about him- but looking at comments on youtube he was inspiring thousands and my wingmen enjoyed his content and one even hired him for coaching- I disagree with John Anthony’s thesis that Berba was a complete flop of a PUA – he did get results for two people that I winged who were coached under him with but still I saw him as someone who looked drained even seeing him 7 years before his suicide.


Johnny in his later years seemed himself to have lost weight and seemed to be continually blogging about his life – I’d consider this oversharing , if you have a financial issue why share it with the world it just looks weak and desperate in my opinion and isn’t something that people who are socially calibrated should do. He’d share details about his addictions to porn and prostitution – this may have drawn him a lot of clientele but I’d say some problems are best kept anonymously to yourself- also I found it weird how 15 years of pua and dating he seemingly failed to draw proper LTRs in the recent years – maybe his mental health was a reason behind the relationships failing to hold for the long term. It seems that the likes of him , Mystery , Ross Jefferies have failed to lock in a proper LTR despite years of study and coaching on dating. His consistency in the gym didn’t seem to be helping out either despite him making improvements to his body he still came across looking rough in the last few years which he’s been releasing content. He most definitely needed some psychiatric help with his OCD which he was unable to control – for me personally my mental health issues were solved with infrared sauna , clean diet and exercise – Infrared Sauna for me personally got rid of approach anxiety. Im not sure if this is an adequate cure for OCD but it seemed that Johnny was very isolated for someone who should be a social dating coach he seemed to have few friends that could be with him at a time of need and no woman there to support him which again I find odd- even Torero after sleeping with 100s of women seemingly didn’t have one to take care of him in his time of need.

Dangers of Falling Behind in your Social Life

It was clear that Johnny had a rough life – issues with mental health and seemingly a lack of social awareness – his excessive sharing of his private life for me was one thing that made me feel like he wasn’t right in the head. But for men today social isolation at a young age, trauma and abuse has its costs further down the line- if men can’t build and form relationships with other men, if they can’t build solid relationships with women , if they can’t get their finances in order than this can leave them being vulnerable. For me personally my failure to land a proper girlfriend until my 4 year of daygame in 2022 aged 28 – I had realised I’d missed on a lot of social opportunities – luckily through daygame some of those social opportunities were resurrected and now i finally have a loving girlfriend but I was still very lonely from the ages of 16-24 and I do regret not doing daygame earlier on – it would’ve made my life a lot easier today. For many men they miss out on these opportunities and resort to porn or prostitution to fill the void – to give them the illusion of love and a sense of belonging (especially those with video game addictions) Falling behind has consequences and getting back on the bandwagon can be tough for some and maybe impossible to get back on that horse- either starting too late or just being too anxious and procrastinating, making excuses so to never start at all. Johnny’s death has reminded me of the importance to keep going, to show mental strength and vigour and continuing to improve my social circle and my SMV – I don’t have mental health issues but I am also aware that its important for those who do to seek help and support- my thoughts on anti depressants? I think I really don’t know enough to have an opinion but know that they can have some really bad side effects sometimes the cure can be worse than the disease but of course it varies from person to person .

Concluding Thoughts :

I think its tough to analyse this as I don’t know about OCD, I think that might not have been the only thing to take him into suicide as there was also the issue of his financial issues and the history of depression and anxiety both of which had plagued Tom Torero in the past too. But it should be known that whoever you look up in life everyone has their problems and their issues – a lot of dating coaches out there have mental problems heck even Jordan Peterson much loved by the manosphere is hooked on antidepressants and opioids. You only got one life to live so continually seek to improve it so you never end up indebted and alone like Johnny did- its a ruthless world out there and takes a lot of determination to survive it and don’t ever take what you have for granted. I am not a Johnny Berba fan but with 33k Youtube subscribers and seeing his clients get genuine success his impact is undeniable. It may not have been to the heights of Tom Torero and he most definitely lacked the Social Suave of The Natural Lifestyles but his impact will live long in the lives of many.

Excellent...who wrote this
.. make sure you quote and give credit to author, if is not you...i 100 percent agree, which is the point of me posting about puas commiting suicide.... That being said with all the respect to him, he had 0 biz coaching, he is close to between beginner and intermediate level...his fundamentals were shit too...which is why i gave a list of real coaches that had suicidal issues in the past..

 

[AspiringStoic]

I think many folks have a tendency to idolise people. Especially people that represent or seem to have something that they don't have and are trying to get.

Pickup as I see it is ultimately a tool. You can use it to find one or more girls you like and keep them around, get a girlfriend or wife, or just use it to have a varied sex life. We can also use the skills to build social and work connections in other areas etc.

When you see a "coach" its just a person who has a skill that you don't have. So you learn THAT skill from him and then you move on. There is no need to learn or mimick other areas of his life.

If I want to learn programming and I know a guy who is a great programmer, I will learn programming from him. But if he is also an alcoholic, degenerate gambler and a drug addict, I don't have to take on those habits from him.

Dating coaches are also similar. You learn cold approach, seduction related things from them and move on. There is no need to either idolize them or villianize them or pass judgment on others parts of their life.

We are here passing judgment on a person who has met an unfortunate end whom none of us know personally. What is the need for all this?

The only takeaway from all this is that, pickup is not a be all and end all solution for all your problems. But it just is a tool to help you improve your dating life and if it ends up improving your dating life, its going to end up giving you a few other fringe benefits which is great. But thats it.