Another pua commits' suicide Johnny Berba

[Warped Mindless]

sorry to hear that, you can always reach out to guys in the community... Including myself... Worst thing to do is to be alone and not look for help...



^ dunno if that is sustainable


yes ^

I think during times like this is when you more need likeminded guys into self development

^ during depression this happens...

^ losing money is super stressful and depressing have been there... and just like maslow everything else takes a back sit or is irrelevant... including women...

Now the economy is shit! so during economies like this is wayyyyyyyyyyyy harder....

I can't relate, but again.... If things like this happen ok to reach out..

Appreciate the words, truly!

but yeah, I’m not about to off myself or anything. Just been a crazy few months?

Did I ever tell you about the biker before I left here a while ago?

I know Swati knows. Anyways, had a biker gang member dude come looking for me.

Ended up putting him in the hospital which got legal charges on me. Eventually I got out of those chargers because it was self defense. But I was involved with a new business venture and when my investors found out that I was potentially going to prison they cut and ran. That fell apart.

Lots more but this ain’t about me. I’ll rebound, always do. Just gotta lean to stay away from women with sociopathic BFs lol

 

[Swati]

Ended up putting him in the hospital which got legal charges on me. Eventually I got out of those chargers because it was self defense. But I was involved with a new business venture and when my investors found out that I was potentially going to prison they cut and ran. That fell apart.

fuck! I didn't know it got that bad...

Apart from that, if you are facing a situation where you need a different eye, the forum's people and I are available to you.

Another person you know sometimes can see the issue and give you a different perspective, a clearer picture without being stressed at the moment and emotional. It's certainly helped me before.

With all the girls I've fucked, I never encounter a wack job BF situation like that before, but I also practice avoiding girls with BF too.

Hope all is well from now on!

 

[empath]

I wonder what is it in one that tries to live the life even when has lost everything, he has will to live even after losing his limbs, he keeps going. While other wants to stop living even when he has everything.

Well idk how much of this is genetic, because both my parents and grandparents have incredible will to live and other relatives also.

Yet I had struggled with suicidal thoughts. Till my 23 rd birthday.

I even attempted it once but couldn't, thank god I didn't succeed. I think that time I had no control on situation around me. So, maybe how control you are in of yourself is an answer.

But after seeing people other than parents I concluded how much other care about their life and concluded how stupid it is to even think about ending my own life, I built to survive.

Still sometimes those dark thoughts come but now I laugh at those.

Now I think life is indeed beautiful and few bad days should not stop me from living at it fullest.

 

[Chase]

@Warped Mindless,

I noticed your absence! Good to see you back.

Like @Skills said, the economy is absolute garbage right now.

Every business owner I know is complaining about falling sales. I'm in a marketing group where just a few months ago the head guy put together a special "intervention" webinar because he said he had so many people telling him "No one is buying anything right now!" I had a guy telling me about a coaching business where "the coaches are crying because no one is signing up for coaching anymore." If you go on Reddit there are constant threads about how atrocious the real economy is -- wages getting slashed, nobody hiring, Harvard grads needing a year+ to get hired, prices of everything exploding.

People who do contract work for us have been asking for more work, because we've been giving them less work, and a bunch of their other clients have disappeared altogether. All I can say is, "We'll have more work for you when things pick up again. Sorry."

Bet you 10 bucks your startup backers who pulled out just used your legal trouble as an excuse.

Good economy? "No problem bud, I'm sure you'll lick those charges!"

Bad economy? "On second thought, this seems like the perfect opportunity to de-risk and sit on our capital rather than betting on something to take off during a time when everything's in decline."

(the media does this whole "Economy's doing great right now! Maybe there might be a slight recession around the bend but overall it's great! Heck, unemployment is really low! Inflation is not too bad!" but they have about a bajillion funny numbers mixed in there. Most people at this point know it's pure propaganda)

You've just got to soldier through times like these. It never lasts forever. You always get a bunch of suicides at the start of a deep recession because people's expectations are so mismatched to reality, then everyone adjusts. Sooner or later things rebound.

That said, I think it also makes sense to be aware of general society / civilizational trends, economies-wise. This Ray Dalio video does a good job putting things in perspective:

All the massive inflation over the past few years came from the massive money printing they did during the lockdowns. Hopefully they'll lay off the money printer for a while and not make things worse.

...

Side note: any time I'm in a bit of a slump I like to step outside myself and say, "All right, obviously what I'm doing isn't working, otherwise I'd be excited and energetic. What am I sinking my time into right now that is not paying off, and what could I put time into instead that has potential or at least would excite me?" Then I do a little reorientation, de-prioritize the less effective stuff, ratchet up in priority whatever excites me. Helps a lot.

If the economy gets really bad, just focus on building skills for a while instead.

That's Confucius's advice: when there's no opportunity to make advances, pull back and work on yourself for a while until opportunities open up again for you to put those skills to use.

Chase

 

[isildur1]

You can't compare torero a decent coach with berba a guy with all due respect had no biz coaching, he should have been taking coaching. . The idea that you can't be honest about a person by the way cause he is dead is ridiculous, the other dude point...

I said before on both my blog posts I didn’t like him as a coach and I didn’t really think his game model was good. Then again I winged with two of his clients and saw the clients improve and get results with my own eyes ( also looking at YouTube comments he seemed to inspire a lot of people to get out there ) Berba was never my cup of tea and even upon meeting him in 2018 I could tell he was mentally off , poorly dressed and groomed - seemed rough even then. I can’t deny though he had an impact on London daygamers though anyone with an ounce of experience would see past him quite easily. His clientele that I winged with were quite social recluses and also suffered from social anxiety and porn addictions similar to Berba so maybe it was the relatability aspect of him that drew the sales in ( again not defending him here just trying to make a balanced observation)

Oddly enough the more he hit the gym and looked after his physical health he seemed to look worse now than he was when he did ( I don’t think I’ve seen that in someone ever) he seemed to loose excessive weight making him look quite obscure

Torero as a coach and from his podcasts was obviously a lot better than berba and when I met Tom in 2018 he was in good spirits and really helpful-

both however had history of anxiety and depression in their early 20s

Both faced strikes on YouTube which no doubt would’ve impacted on their sales

Both seemed to be quite active in solitude in their last 12 months of their life with torero gaming alone in Switzerland and Berba vlogging alone in the gym

Both struggled to maintain ltrs - I believe Torero had a divorce post university graduation. Berba I never saw him date anyone on Instagram - he blogs that his first relationship from daygame ended after two months but other than that there’s little I can note there’s seemingly not a single picture with him dating someone

Also both had a significant slump in their viewership post 2019 in light of the bbc media crusade on pickup I have no doubt that must have impacted them financially in terms of clientele

I have a friend who coached for the natural lifestyles and he also noted post Covid that their sales slumped massively - pua coaching is definitely on a decline and that puts financial pressure on the coaches

 

[jackgignac]

I'm thinking a lot of this has to do with a lack of emotional indiependence.

 

[iceberg slim]

Wasn’t familiar with Johnny Berba, but this is sad.

I met a guy at a PUA business owners mastermind in 2014 who later took his own life. Didn’t know the guy before and hadn’t talked to him since but we talked for like 40 minutes at the mastermind. He was running some kind of L.A. dance studio for women but seemed a little lost about what direction he wanted to go in life. A mutual contact let me know he’d killed himself in 2019 I think it was.

There’s a fair chunk of guys who go into PUA trying to heal some wounds they have. This space is also attractive to dudes with extreme personalities; especially true for guys who hang around and become gurus. Your normal average dude is not going to stay a PUA then become a PUA guru and make this his career. Or if he is he’s just a marketing guy who isn’t going for some public “guru” image.

I’ve known some proficient PUAs who struggled with suicidal thoughts. Banging a bunch of girls doesn’t fix this. It’s better than being an incel (lol) but if you’re still depressed after shagging a bunch, having cool girlfriends, etc., you’ve got another thing to deal with.

My recommendation as always is to tackle the depression at the root… to understand its cause within the mind and fix it there:

How to Overcome Depression

Was discussing this on a forum with a guy; I used to talk about it a fair amount, some time back, but it's sort of faded from my life in significance. It just isn't on my mind much these days anymore, but I do remember how big a deal it was for me once, and hopefully my story and process can...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

Sounds like a potentially excellent article Chase!

That's incredibly sad.

I don't know much about the others, but I was (and still am) a huge follower of Tom Torero. I have most of his material/infields downloaded, and used to listen to his podcast regularly when I was going through the first couple of years of game.

He was my role model for daygame - he had so many great ways of sexualizing the interaction in that cocky, cheeky British style. I'd even planned to get coaching with him once I had enough money to afford it. By the time I could, it was too late.

He definitely struggled with depression. He often spoke about how he saw daygame as the best form of therapy. By the end of it, he was embracing the "stoic" lifestyle - a lone ranger travelling across Europe in a van, picking up girls wherever he went. I guess he was running away from some inner demons, and he probably felt socially isolated. No doubt the money problems contributed to it too (the cherry on top being crucified by that nasty journalist who made it her mission to destroy him).

I think it's logical that niche obsessions like PUA attract people with mental illness. We even see them drift into the forum from time to time.

Of course, that doesn't mean every PUA is like that. I'd like to think that the vast majority of us are normal guys, living normal lives, and that these tragic examples are just the outliers that tend to grab the spotlight whenever something like this happens.

I'm looking at Tom's youtube channel and it looks like mostly theory, I'm not seeing any infield. Can you point me in the direction of his in field if it's available?

The travelling around Europe in a van picking up girls sounds great but also sounds like a man chasing highs and not opening up to his inner issues.

 

[Skills]

I'm thinking a lot of this has to do with a lack of emotional indiependence.

are you nextasf jack giant??

 

[Skills]

Sounds like a potentially excellent article Chase!

I'm looking at Tom's youtube channel and it looks like mostly theory, I'm not seeing any infield. Can you point me in the direction of his in field if it's available?

The travelling around Europe in a van picking up girls sounds great but also sounds like a man chasing highs and not opening up to his inner issues.

probably took it down due to youtube,nothing to watch, is horrible with all due respect... i don't even do day game and i can smoke him...

 

[Atlas IV]

probably took it down due to youtube,nothing to watch, is horrible with all due respect... i don't even do day game and i can smoke him...

Tom Torero? His are some of the best daygame infields in existence IMO.

Perhaps you just saw some random vids on Youtube, but the infield videos included in his products Stealth Seduction and Street Hustle were incredibly useful. Every step of the seduction is labeled in the video, and detailed explanations of all his gambits and techniques are provided in the handbook so you can see exactly what he's doing and understand why it works.

I studied his stuff over the years and I would say it took my daygame from 0 to 60. Was actually thinking of doing a writeup on Torero's style of game, because I think it can help a lot of other guys too who understand the theory but struggle to put into practice because they haven't seen how it looks in action.

 

[Atlas IV]

I'm looking at Tom's youtube channel and it looks like mostly theory, I'm not seeing any infield. Can you point me in the direction of his in field if it's available?

Yeah they were all taken down by Youtube. I have most of his videos from his paid content downloaded on my computer though. DM me if you want them and I'll send you a Google Drive link.

 

[Skills]

Tom Torero? His are some of the best daygame infields in existence IMO.

Perhaps you just saw some random vids on Youtube, but the infield videos included in his products Stealth Seduction and Street Hustle were incredibly useful. Every step of the seduction is labeled in the video, and detailed explanations of all his gambits and techniques are provided in the handbook so you can see exactly what he's doing and understand why it works.

I studied his stuff over the years and I would say it took my daygame from 0 to 60. Was actually thinking of doing a writeup on Torero's style of game, because I think it can help a lot of other guys too who understand the theory but struggle to put into practice because they haven't seen how it looks in action.

Berba genious

 

[FunGuy]

I can not relate to ever feeling suicidal or ever went through my mind, even during low down moments such as post break ups, i don't think that ever went through my head.... But you have all these puas that try to commit suicide or even kill themselves, though they have been in the space and are not beginners', kind of sad if you ask me, examples:

- Sinn
-Mystery
- Alex Rsd (who was teaching inner game)
- Tom Torero
- Jonny Berba

From that PUA's on that list, from memory I recall in the book The Game that Mystery was depressed due to a breakup but haven't read that book in like 15 years so I don't remember much. Did he still struggle with depression after that?

I'm curious if Sinn ever disclosed how he overcame his depression because I remember him mentioning in a video how getting laid actually made his depression worse. I wonder if he ever fixed it and what did he have to do to overcome it.

I wonder what the lives of all the old school PUA gurus who have vanished from the internet have gone to. A lot of these dudes are nowhere to be found.

 

[isildur1]

Sounds like a potentially excellent article Chase!

I'm looking at Tom's youtube channel and it looks like mostly theory, I'm not seeing any infield. Can you point me in the direction of his in field if it's available?

The travelling around Europe in a van picking up girls sounds great but also sounds like a man chasing highs and not opening up to his inner issues.

Tom’s YouTube channels all got taken down and deleted - what you’re seeing now is most likely a re upload from fan- he had around 70k subs at one point

 

[Bismarck]

Tom Torero? His are some of the best daygame infields in existence IMO.

Perhaps you just saw some random vids on Youtube, but the infield videos included in his products Stealth Seduction and Street Hustle were incredibly useful. Every step of the seduction is labeled in the video, and detailed explanations of all his gambits and techniques are provided in the handbook so you can see exactly what he's doing and understand why it works.

I studied his stuff over the years and I would say it took my daygame from 0 to 60. Was actually thinking of doing a writeup on Torero's style of game, because I think it can help a lot of other guys too who understand the theory but struggle to put into practice because they haven't seen how it looks in action.

Could you make that writeup? I'd be interested to read it. Also happy to get that Google drive link

As for Johnny's suicide thanks for the writings isildur, they helped put him into perspective.

I never heard of the guy, but as I wrote when Tom took his life, this idea touted by evolutionary psychologists (cf. The Red Queen by Matt Ridley) that our sole purpose in this life is to spread our seed like Genghis Khan (and that, incidentally, that was why men created civilization, to impress women in order to sleep with them) can, if you don't pay attention to the remaining Maslow Hierarchy needs, lead you to eschew everything else, in the process becoming a social recluse.

Social isolation, lack of meaningful relationships (friendships), untreated physical and mental health problems, and the absence of a loving woman are definitely minuses. Having those sorts of comforts to call on in tough times is useful. Guys can go their whole lives without having a long-term relationship with a girl, but that is usually a red flag. If you can't get intimate with a girl, then that means you fear opening up to her.

 

[Skills]

Could you make that writeup? I'd be interested to read it. Also happy to get that Google drive link

As for Johnny's suicide thanks for the writings isildur, they helped put him into perspective.

I never heard of the guy, but as I wrote when Tom took his life, this idea touted by evolutionary psychologists (cf. The Red Queen by Matt Ridley) that our sole purpose in this life is to spread our seed like Genghis Khan (and that, incidentally, that was why men created civilization, to impress women in order to sleep with them) can, if you don't pay attention to the remaining Maslow Hierarchy needs, lead you to eschew everything else, in the process becoming a social recluse.

Social isolation, lack of meaningful relationships (friendships), untreated physical and mental health problems, and the absence of a loving woman are definitely minuses. Having those sorts of comforts to call on in tough times is useful. Guys can go their whole lives without having a long-term relationship with a girl, but that is usually a red flag. If you can't get intimate with a girl, then that means you fear opening up to her.

yeah! @Atlas IV i second on the guide idea, make sure you don't ramble and put your own samples, though not into day game would love to see the london model.... I heard does not translate to usa...

My nitpick and i may be wrong from Torero and all the day game english guys, is that they target tourist.... Tbh! for me gaming tourist is just too easy, you don't even need much game... I do have couple of routines with tourist that are so ridiculous that always work....

 

[Skills]

From that PUA's on that list, from memory I recall in the book The Game that Mystery was depressed due to a breakup but haven't read that book in like 15 years so I don't remember much. Did he still struggle with depression after that?

correct on the post break up, and yes happened after....

I'm curious if Sinn ever disclosed how he overcame his depression because I remember him mentioning in a video how getting laid actually made his depression worse. I wonder if he ever fixed it and what did he have to do to overcome it.

I wonder what the lives of all the old school PUA gurus who have vanished from the internet have gone to. A lot of these dudes are nowhere to be found.

They moved on to other things, @Chase talks about this multiple times throughout the forum...

What happened to some of the forum members????

@Lofty @Gunwitch @fluxcapacitator cost of success forgot his name here @Vision i even miss zack journals entries j/k anyways as i said in my review seduction community is getting lonely...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[KJ Francis]

Jesus! I wish i read that tbh lost a lot of girls after my break up, due to not knowing this... And even posted on nextasf asking for help... Nobody told me including west who was around back then... Well there goes my patent...

Maybe he got it from Courtney Love!

From The Game:

Of all the problems in Courtney’s life, the one that seemed to consume her
most was romantic. The video director wasn’t returning her calls. It was a
problem common to all women, no matter what they looked like or how famous
they were.
“I have a theory,” she said. “You have to sleep with a guy three times for him
to fall in love with you. And I only slept with him twice. I need one more night to
get him.”
This director had captured her heart by playing push-pull. He’d walk her
home, make out with her, and then tell her he couldn’t come inside.
Whether by accident or design, he was following David DeAngelo’s technique
of two steps forward and one step back.

 

[KJ Francis]

From that PUA's on that list, from memory I recall in the book The Game that Mystery was depressed due to a breakup but haven't read that book in like 15 years so I don't remember much. Did he still struggle with depression after that?

He went in to an Ontario hospital mental ward early in the book, then Style took him to a mental health center in Hollywood later on as well and he was put on Seroquel.

I circled around to the back of the house and entered Mystery’s room through
the patio. He was lying on top of his bed in jeans with a laptop computer resting
on his bare stomach. He was watching Back to the Future II.

”When I was in tenth grade, I wanted to kill myself because I had nothing left
to live for,“ he said. ”Then I heard that Back to the Future II was opening in
twenty-three days. I had a calendar, and I would mark off each day until I could
see the movie. It’s the only thing that kept me from killing myself.“

He paused the movie and lifted the laptop off his stomach. ”When I saw it and
heard the opening music, I cried, dude. It was my reason to live. I know all the
props.“ He held up the DVD box and showed me the cover. ”I touched this car.“

 

[KJ Francis]

Just gotta lean to stay away from women with sociopathic BFs lol

Thus solves the mystery of the beach report part 2...? I remember one of the girls had a boyfriend in jail... assuming maybe him...

I noticed your absence as well... just thought you had nothing left to learn here lol! Glad to see you back and hope you get some wins that help you rebound soon!