Another pua commits' suicide Johnny Berba

[DonGately]

Anyone struggling with MH issues should speak to a therapist. It may take more than one to find one you like/vibe with. I would only recommend male therapists for men, JMHO.

 

[Atlas IV]

yeah! @Atlas IV i second on the guide idea, make sure you don't ramble and put your own samples, though not into day game would love to see the london model.... I heard does not translate to usa...

Sure, since a few guys have shown interest I'll get onto it, already drafted half of it. I'll see if I can share some his infield videos on a hosted public domain (surely nobody's going to make a fuss over copyright since he's dead and his products aren't available anywhere on the internet)

My nitpick and i may be wrong from Torero and all the day game english guys, is that they target tourist.... Tbh! for me gaming tourist is just too easy, you don't even need much game... I do have couple of routines with tourist that are so ridiculous that always work....

I wouldn't his material is specifically designed for tourists, though I can see it would work well on them because it's sexualizing the interaction very early on, and I imagine there were a lot of tourists in the European cities he gamed. A lot of (most) of his infields are with exchange students and girls working/living abroad.

 

[isildur1]

Could you make that writeup? I'd be interested to read it. Also happy to get that Google drive link

As for Johnny's suicide thanks for the writings isildur, they helped put him into perspective.

I never heard of the guy, but as I wrote when Tom took his life, this idea touted by evolutionary psychologists (cf. The Red Queen by Matt Ridley) that our sole purpose in this life is to spread our seed like Genghis Khan (and that, incidentally, that was why men created civilization, to impress women in order to sleep with them) can, if you don't pay attention to the remaining Maslow Hierarchy needs, lead you to eschew everything else, in the process becoming a social recluse.

Social isolation, lack of meaningful relationships (friendships), untreated physical and mental health problems, and the absence of a loving woman are definitely minuses. Having those sorts of comforts to call on in tough times is useful. Guys can go their whole lives without having a long-term relationship with a girl, but that is usually a red flag. If you can't get intimate with a girl, then that means you fear opening up to her.

Tom married shortly after university and then divorced - maybe his divorce put him off future ltr commitments .

whenever Tom was in a ltr with a girl he always seemed bored out of his mind - in the last year of his podcasting he was living with a Russian woman and complained he was losing the frame . He always had a negative view of ltrs criticising them as causing men to become weak and lazy which in some circumstances I believe he’s correct.

I guess in todays hook up culture where people are being replaced for the next thrill it’s easy to get drawn into the rush of finding a new partner - my gripe with his death is that out of the 100s of women he boned surely one of them could’ve helped him in his time of need? Good ltrs with high quality women can add a lot of value to your life- my current girlfriend helps me out alot and is very supportive whenever I need anything - I find it odd how torero despite having 10-20x my lay count didn’t have women to call on to help him.

with Johnny I can understand - even meeting him in 2018 he had obvious mental health issues , dressed scruffy and seemed very socially ill calibrated unlike torero . I could understand why no woman would want to stick around in his life - being with someone with ocd , mental health issues and debt isn’t very appealing for most London women who already have a lot of options in a city like London . Being 13 years in the game and with no ltr to call on is a pretty poor result for him too. But an understandable one .

for those who say women can’t save you - in some cases for me a daygame lay has been a source of great confidence boost and morale boost- my second ever daygame lay was a Taiwanese model and to this day 7 years on I still feel a confidence boost from it ( sounds weird I know but positive feedback is important )

and good women from daygame have supported me well in the past - social circles can help men move forward in the right direction of course one needs to work hard to break into them and earn them.

 

[isildur1]

yeah! @Atlas IV i second on the guide idea, make sure you don't ramble and put your own samples, though not into day game would love to see the london model.... I heard does not translate to usa...

My nitpick and i may be wrong from Torero and all the day game english guys, is that they target tourist.... Tbh! for me gaming tourist is just too easy, you don't even need much game... I do have couple of routines with tourist that are so ridiculous that always work....

I don’t agree it’s just tourist game as torero was in relationships with women who lived in London and some English women too. He gamed in over 30 nations I recall and had successes with both locals and tourists in each .

I’ve seen a lot of wings having success with his model in London- I know torero also had lay reports in Vegas and New York while gaming there too. Personally I haven’t done much game in the US so I can’t say much regarding that but do know Americans who’ve read torero’s stuff

 

[isildur1]

Sure, since a few guys have shown interest I'll get onto it, already drafted half of it. I'll see if I can share some his infield videos on a hosted public domain (surely nobody's going to make a fuss over copyright since he's dead and his products aren't available anywhere on the internet)


I wouldn't his material is specifically designed for tourists, though I can see it would work well on them because it's sexualizing the interaction very early on, and I imagine there were a lot of tourists in the European cities he gamed. A lot of (most) of his infields are with exchange students and girls working/living abroad.

Torero’s podcasts were fantastic for me. He breaks down all the elements nicely

torero coached everywhere - Singapore , London , New York and gamed in nations like kahzakstan ( I believe he also got punched in the face there too) so he showed flexibility and adaptability whether he was in a conservative or liberal environment

 

[isildur1]

I'm thinking a lot of this has to do with a lack of emotional indiependence.

Both spent too much time on their own imo. Torero was daygaming solo round Switzerland and berba seemed constantly on his own the last 5 years or so and never seemed to even have a pic with a girl . Seems like both suffered from isolation in their later years

 

[isildur1]

I can not relate to ever feeling suicidal or ever went through my mind, even during low down moments such as post break ups, i don't think that ever went through my head.... But you have all these puas that try to commit suicide or even kill themselves, though they have been in the space and are not beginners', kind of sad if you ask me, examples:

- Sinn
-Mystery
- Alex Rsd (who was teaching inner game)
- Tom Torero
- Jonny Berba

^ obviously i can go on and on, and i can talk about pre pua many people that were suicidal, but in these case is post pua.... Anyways, sad to see the dude even made a video which i find bizard about help in no committing suicide...

Berba seemed the worst of them all- seemingly couldn’t hold an ltr, didn’t dress well, looked scruffy and seemed stressed and anxious when he was coaching in 2018 when I met him. He always seemed on edge even back then. Nowadays mystery seems run down too- he’s aged a lot and seems to give obscure advice in his interviews at least he’s had children and a legacy the same can’t be said for most dating coaches. Berba had suicidal issues way before he was a coach and suffered from parental abuse - Berba also had financial problems which probably crippled him along with his ocd - the fact that he was so public about everything was also a bit weird he seemed to constantly vlog every aspect of his life to everyone which I felt made him seem a bit more crazy to everyone and les calibrated - like who would want to be an ltr with someone who’s constantly vlogging with their r Al name about their suicidal thoughts , prostitution use , debt and ocd ?

Torero had anxiety and depression even at Oxford university and when he graduating - he sited daygame as very therapeutic in healing his depression i guess the loss of his YouTube channel, PayPal account blocking and public shaming pushed him off the edge along with decreased revenue from coaching during Covid .

 

[thundercock.]

I wonder what the lives of all the old school PUA gurus who have vanished from the internet have gone to. A lot of these dudes are nowhere to be found.

relevant

 

[Skills]

relevant

How is that relevant is like in a political discussion posting a feminist talking about Trump...brah! Or asking your wife what she thinks about your girlfriend?? Dude is so irrelevant to the community and a time machine seducer....

 

[Skills]

Tom married shortly after university and then divorced - maybe his divorce put him off future ltr commitments .

whenever Tom was in a ltr with a girl he always seemed bored out of his mind - in the last year of his podcasting he was living with a Russian woman and complained he was losing the frame . He always had a negative view of ltrs criticising them as causing men to become weak and lazy which in some circumstances I believe he’s correct.

I guess in todays hook up culture where people are being replaced for the next thrill it’s easy to get drawn into the rush of finding a new partner - my gripe with his death is that out of the 100s of women he boned surely one of them could’ve helped him in his time of need? Good ltrs with high quality women can add a lot of value to your life- my current girlfriend helps me out alot and is very supportive whenever I need anything - I find it odd how torero despite having 10-20x my lay count didn’t have women to call on to help him.

with Johnny I can understand - even meeting him in 2018 he had obvious mental health issues , dressed scruffy and seemed very socially ill calibrated unlike torero . I could understand why no woman would want to stick around in his life - being with someone with ocd , mental health issues and debt isn’t very appealing for most London women who already have a lot of options in a city like London . Being 13 years in the game and with no ltr to call on is a pretty poor result for him too. But an understandable one .

for those who say women can’t save you - in some cases for me a daygame lay has been a source of great confidence boost and morale boost- my second ever daygame lay was a Taiwanese model and to this day 7 years on I still feel a confidence boost from it ( sounds weird I know but positive feedback is important )

and good women from daygame have supported me well in the past - social circles can help men move forward in the right direction of course one needs to work hard to break into them and earn them.

So you are saying that if you get publicly destroyed, your income depleted and you suffer from depression a woman can help you cause you have a good girlfriend.... Brah! Context, i have a lot of mains that have helped me a lot and still helping me probably more than your girlfriend has helped you... But we have never been in that situation, to assume a girl would have a made a difference captain save pua is ridiculous... brah

 

[Skills]

I don’t agree it’s just tourist game as torero was in relationships with women who lived in London and some English women too. He gamed in over 30 nations I recall and had successes with both locals and tourists in each .

I’ve seen a lot of wings having success with his model in London- I know torero also had lay reports in Vegas and New York while gaming there too. Personally I haven’t done much game in the US so I can’t say much regarding that but do know Americans who’ve read torero’s stuff

Again, i will repeat what i tried to explain for me personally traveling and gaming tourist models are not and indication of true skill, though i recommend both in my end of the year guides is not the same a local dude gaming local vs a tourist or gaming tourist... I seen guys bringing that objection about the london day game models... But atlas says it does work and improved his day game 60 percent... I do trust Atlas cause he is actually one of the few guys that go out and field test just making sure it doesn't work only with tourist... Hopefully when he post the guide we can all field test...

 

[isildur1]

So you are saying that if you get publicly destroyed, your income depleted and you suffer from depression a woman can help you cause you have a good girlfriend.... Brah! Context, i have a lot of mains that have helped me a lot and still helping me probably more than your girlfriend has helped you... But we have never been in that situation, to assume a girl would have a made a difference captain save pua is ridiculous... brah

I think having a good social circle can make a difference to some people? It obviously varies from person to person - I assume Tom had 10-20x as many girls as I’ve ever had so probably could have had access to circles and more support systems than I or your normal Joe could ever he also has a massive fan base even now people still discuss his work and rightly so . He also most likely had A lot of clients that could’ve done something too. Yes some women can help some people it depends on the context of course it’s all subjective there are no absolutes in relationships and dating .

the last year or so he was doing a lot of solo game in areas without much of a pua community - remote areas of France , Russia and Switzerland so his isolation was a warning sign to begin with I don’t even recall with him being with any wings for the last year of his life if the podcasts he was recording were accurate

Of course his income took a massive hit no doubt that’s a huge mental strain on anyone both him and berba took a huge reduction of viewership after 2020 I think the bbc documentary definitely resulted in a clamp down and shadow banning of pua content which hurt anyone looking to make a living from coaching

incidentally the natural lifestyles YouTube channels viewership is up 3-4 x in the last couple of years but from my source from the inside told me that their sales are at an all time low- seems for whatever reason pua coaching is becoming less popular and even for the non cancelled channels it’s becoming a grind to make money

 

[isildur1]

It applies to berba too the guy seemed constantly alone in all his vlogs for years on end , also he had close friend commit suicide , he seemed incapable of forming ltrs and all in all visually looked distressed even from when I met him in 2018 he spoke in an anxious vocal tonality -

tom I met in 2018 he seemed happy on the face of things of course people can conceal emotions and a lot of people have experienced mental health declines post Covid especially dating coaches who probably lost a good bunch of clientele during that time

 

[isildur1]

From that PUA's on that list, from memory I recall in the book The Game that Mystery was depressed due to a breakup but haven't read that book in like 15 years so I don't remember much. Did he still struggle with depression after that?

I'm curious if Sinn ever disclosed how he overcame his depression because I remember him mentioning in a video how getting laid actually made his depression worse. I wonder if he ever fixed it and what did he have to do to overcome it.

I wonder what the lives of all the old school PUA gurus who have vanished from the internet have gone to. A lot of these dudes are nowhere to be found.

Some have had successes

liam McRae - married a model- on instagram living a good life

Robbie Kramer - married a model roo living a good life on instagram

Tony solo - married now

Paul Janka - married with kids

pat steadman - married with kids

Zan Perrion - has a girlfriend lives in Romania and a daughter from another relationship

James Marshall - has a villa in Portugal seems to be doing very well

So yeah seems that some can get out of this good

Subjectively


Ross Jeffries - single with no kids and seemingly no ltr

mystery - divorced lost custody of two kids

Neil Strauss - divorced

Jonathan Neil Thomson - the natural life styles coach- frequent mental breakdowns and single now

Jesse from simple pickup- paying for sex on seeking arrangements - selling scam online dating products

Kong from simple pickup stole his business partners girlfriend

torero and Johnny berba- committed suicide

In between failiure and success :

Nick Krauser- seemingly looking for a wife

James Tusk - was daygaming in Venezuela last time I heard

again even those who struggled still had a global impact and will most likely never be forgotten even if their relationships haven’t been optimal what they achieved is no doubt impressive

And everyone’s definition of success and failure is different some could be having a solid nuclear family with no divorce others can be marrying the hottest girl possible regardless of children or not. Again everyone has different metrics of success .

 

[thundercock.]

How is that relevant is like in a political discussion posting a feminist talking about Trump...brah! Or asking your wife what she thinks about your girlfriend?? Dude is so irrelevant to the community and a time machine seducer....

huh? Sleazy did went all black pill & politics, etc, but in the linked post he just disusses Ross Jeffries...
isildur1 made a better list of where many puas ended up and ... many of them aren't exactly examples of success - old, broke with issues that they didn't really fix, like Ross; as Sleazy points out, they would have been better off if they took a more conventional life path

 

[Skills]

huh? Sleazy did went all black pill & politics, etc, but in the linked post he just disusses Ross Jeffries...
isildur1 made a better list of where many puas ended up and ... many of them aren't exactly examples of success - old, broke with issues that they didn't really fix, like Ross; as Sleazy points out, they would have been better off if they took a more conventional life path

Yes i am sure many on this forum would like to grow up to be like sleazy
... Oh my bad... Everyday i wake oh fuck my life... God why have you punished me, why i am not like sleazy... My bad! I stand corrected
..

 

[Skills]

Some have had successes

liam McRae - married a model- on instagram living a good life

Robbie Kramer - married a model roo living a good life on instagram

Tony solo - married now

Paul Janka - married with kids

pat steadman - married with kids

Zan Perrion - has a girlfriend lives in Romania and a daughter from another relationship

James Marshall - has a villa in Portugal seems to be doing very well

So yeah seems that some can get out of this good

Subjectively


Ross Jeffries - single with no kids and seemingly no ltr

mystery - divorced lost custody of two kids

Neil Strauss - divorced

Jonathan Neil Thomson - the natural life styles coach- frequent mental breakdowns and single now

Jesse from simple pickup- paying for sex on seeking arrangements - selling scam online dating products

Kong from simple pickup stole his business partners girlfriend

torero and Johnny berba- committed suicide

In between failiure and success :

Nick Krauser- seemingly looking for a wife

James Tusk - was daygaming in Venezuela last time I heard

again even those who struggled still had a global impact and will most likely never be forgotten even if their relationships haven’t been optimal what they achieved is no doubt impressive

And everyone’s definition of success and failure is different some could be having a solid nuclear family with no divorce others can be marrying the hottest girl possible regardless of children or not. Again everyone has different metrics of success .

Success and failure is relative to your own personal goals.... If is money... You have multi-million dollar men like gll, rsd nick and Tylor, more plates more dates, karea and hundreds others some in this forum... If you want hedonism many including myself, if you want marriage or relationship 0, razor, manson, papa, julien.. i mean i can name drop all day...

 

[thundercock.]

Yes i am sure many on this forum would like to grow up to be like sleazy
... Oh my bad... Everyday i wake oh fuck my life... God why have you punished me, why i am not like sleazy... My bad! I stand corrected
..

sleazy has his own issues, yes

 

[isildur1]

huh? Sleazy did went all black pill & politics, etc, but in the linked post he just disusses Ross Jeffries...
isildur1 made a better list of where many puas ended up and ... many of them aren't exactly examples of success - old, broke with issues that they didn't really fix, like Ross; as Sleazy points out, they would have been better off if they took a more conventional life path

Interesting when you dive deeper

parental abuse :
Johnny berba - abused by his father for long periods of his childhood
Sasha Daygame - abused by his mother for large periods of his childhood his mother horded cash rather than spending it on his own son.
james Marshall - dad cheated on his mother and divorced he wrote about it in his book had a negative effect on him
Jonathan Neil Thomson of tnl- parents joined a religious cult and he was sexually abused
James McLean of 21 convention- talked about how he was abused by his parents

Suffered divorces prior to pickup:
Nick Krausser divorced by his Japanese wife after 6 years
Tom torero divorced after marriage during his time at university

Divorced during coaching days

James Marshall - cheated on by his Ukrainian wife when she got a better job offer moving from Eastern Europe to Australia - essentially was used for visa

Out of the book the game
Neil Strauss
Ross Jeffries
Mystery

are all single now - only Zan Perrion who was in the book is still in a relationship now

some other positive ones I missed out on:
Adam lyons - despite being a marketer scammer is married to two women and has done very well in business

Richard La Runa- whatever the spelling is - seemingly made a lot of money has a flat in Barcelona now and is living well

 

[isildur1]

huh? Sleazy did went all black pill & politics, etc, but in the linked post he just disusses Ross Jeffries...
isildur1 made a better list of where many puas ended up and ... many of them aren't exactly examples of success - old, broke with issues that they didn't really fix, like Ross; as Sleazy points out, they would have been better off if they took a more conventional life path

Ross Jeffries never impressed me even in his peak- his seduction techniques nlp just come across as fake acts that i don’t believe could ever have worked in the first place

he made a lot of money publishing a book at the right time but now dating dynamics have evolved it’s easier to see through the gurus now thanks to communities like this one