anyone know what is going on in the pickup industry

[Mr.Rob]

Most girls you run into have never run across articles on PUA etc. or if they did it was just "another headline" before being replaced by the 1,000 other news headlines for the week. Just because its pertinent in our little community doesn't mean its a mainstream thing.

When the RSDJulien blowup happened when I was in college I never met a single guy or girl that had heard of Julien Blanc.

The internet is a big place with A LOT of corners. The odds that any one girl your going to approach has an inkling of a clue about pickup/seduction is very low. Plus even if she does... well if your the right type of guy she'll make an exception anway

 

[Rain]

https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/before-after-ugly-duckling-beauty-transformation-30-586bb2ee19d07__700.jpg

Do you know the guy in that photo that had that transformation?

 

[Tony D]

We weren't supposed to talk about fight club... and then it became a billion dollar industry. Back when I found this stuff in 2006 I was using a Razr flip phone. Most people were just starting switching from Myspace to the new thing, Facebook, which didn't even have a wall yet. Information didn't spread so quickly. There was no Whattsapp, Instagram, and Twitter was still niche. Basically, information didn't go super viral, and most people weren't part of giant online communities.

Now, if someone makes a perceived social error, it's broadcasted to millions in a few minutes. Everyone has an HD camera in their pocket, connected to dozens of social media avenues. Even my Mother, my Aunts and Grannies use social media. So when something pisses off women, gays, or hipsters, everyone hears about it because the mainstream media gets their news from them.

The Internet used to be the wild west, but it's become "civilized," which means outlaws like men who study and practice social science to get their dicks wet will have to find private places to talk about it, once again.

 

[Watts]

Here's a core belief that should help anyone being tested by SJW's or girls on the street or whatever for approaching women.

If men don't approach women, how will they get together?

Women aren't going to make the first move, unless she's a normal cute girl and he's a celebrity, so how are regular people supposed to find each other and start dating?

In the west the birth rate is declining, divorce is way up, people aren't having kids or even getting married.

The thing is anyone who complains about pickup has no answer as to what to do about this, and when you call them out, it stops whatever kind of aggression towards you.

And yes, approaching women should be done in a calibrated way, by guys with good fundamentals, and weird guys who look weird and smell weird are used as an counter-example for it (also, I don't like them either!).

A tangent, connected to this, there is an interview between Jerry Seinfeld and a left leaning female reporter after the Louis C.K. scandal, and she's doing the standard thing "Did you know about this!?" trying to paint him as a collaborator (although not too aggressively), and then he says "You know, it's hard to say what to do, because men and women have to get together." and she's silent "...Men and women have to get together, right?" and she finally agrees lol. I guess her plan was to have men locked underground and milked for their jokes and semen!

 

[Chase]

If men don't approach women, how will they get together?

Women aren't going to make the first move, unless she's a normal cute girl and he's a celebrity, so how are regular people supposed to find each other and start dating?

In the west the birth rate is declining, divorce is way up, people aren't having kids or even getting married.

The thing is anyone who complains about pickup has no answer as to what to do about this, and when you call them out, it stops whatever kind of aggression towards you.

I always like to just ask them if they think people should stop flirting.

"Oh, do you think men should stop flirting with women? Do you think if a woman flirts with a man, he's better off to just ignore her?"

In, you know, a totally open, curious tone. Not being cynical. I really just want to know if this is what she thinks.

That stops any of that cold. Then they can fiddle around and try to define what the differences is between this dastardly "P-U-A" stuff they've been hearing about wherever and this other thing flirting which is so good and they love.

And if they go into something about how you shouldn't talk to strangers, then you just say "I see. So you should only flirt with people you really know, right? Like, if you meet a cute guy at a party, he should not talk to you, because you guys aren't friends, right?"

And then watch them struggle again as they realize the implications of what they're suggesting.

Then if you want you can do the mini speech of how it's great for men to learn how to flirt and recognize women's signals and be able to meet women anywhere, and do so in a calibrated way, because so many women feel so disappointed when they see a cute guy in the grocery store or the shopping mall or the café, and they try to get his attention, but he doesn't notice or he's too shy or who knows what happens. And that men and women should be able to meet each other if they like each other, and this is a good and positive thing.

Or you can just leave it off with them realizing that outlawing flirting would not actually be a situation they'd be comfortable with, or that would benefit them personally.

Either way, it's fun!

(note: the framing here is you are flipping it around, such that men are responding to women's signals, cute men whom women want to meet are flirting with them, etc. In this case, it is all in service to the woman. The woman realizes what she's proposing would mean an end to men responding to her signals, and a wave of men ignoring her and giving her the cold shoulder. You aren't stating that outright, you're implying it, by talking about cute guys she wants to meet ignoring her because that's what they "should" do. Cute guys they want to meet ignoring them is, of course, a nightmare scenario for every woman out there... so they tend to see the light rather quick when you phrase things this way )

Chase

 

[Watts]

(note: the framing here is you are flipping it around, such that men are responding to women's signals, cute men whom women want to meet are flirting with them, etc. In this case, it is all in service to the woman. The woman realizes what she's proposing would mean an end to men responding to her signals, and a wave of men ignoring her and giving her the cold shoulder. You aren't stating that outright, you're implying it, by talking about cute guys she wants to meet ignoring her because that's what they "should" do. Cute guys they want to meet ignoring them is, of course, a nightmare scenario for every woman out there... so they tend to see the light rather quick when you phrase things this way )

This whole reply was actually a much more detailed breakdown of step by step how to stop the attack, reframe, and drive home your point.

Thanks for explaining it all out that way.

I agree with all of it, and will do something similar when I am at my most persuasive.

I hadn't thought about the part of her not being able to talk to a cute guy she wants to approach her, or that she approaches, and that's actually a more immediate and universally agreed upon drive than "the declining birth rate / marriages not happening or if happening not working".

Also good to note, not being cynical but simply curious, as it's easy to move over to cynicism particularly with sexual politics and particularly when someone is aggressively judging you. I think that's another great point.

 

[naturalmikey]

i've never actually met one of these anti pua women. i assume they're mostly purple haired lesbians who aren't really open for dialogue. but i could be wrong. most attractive chicks are pretty cool, at least once you get to know them. but they're not the ones getting all this shit shut down. i am more curious about what is going on behind the scenes. there's more to it than the "girls don't like to be approached" argument made by some women. i saw a guy on reddit saying women who found out they were in infields are bringing lawsuits. i don't know if there is any truth to that.

regardless every pua who hasn't already been nuked by youtube has deleted their infields. youtube made a change to their policy that they can nuke any channel for no reason beginning december 10. i think we'll see a lot of redpill, blackpill, and pua content go down on that day. we'll see.

 

[Watts]

i've never actually met one of these anti pua women. i assume they're mostly purple haired lesbians who aren't really open for dialogue. but i could be wrong. most attractive chicks are pretty cool, at least once you get to know them. but they're not the ones getting all this shit shut down. i am more curious about what is going on behind the scenes. there's more to it than the "girls don't like to be approached" argument made by some women. i saw a guy on reddit saying women who found out they were in infields are bringing lawsuits. i don't know if there is any truth to that.

regardless every pua who hasn't already been nuked by youtube has deleted their infields. youtube made a change to their policy that they can nuke any channel for no reason beginning december 10. i think we'll see a lot of redpill, blackpill, and pua content go down on that day. we'll see.

The purple haired lesbian idea is a strawman, although quite a few of them make noise on the internet. You're right, those are the most vocal critics of men, and the least invested in the fate of men (indicated by "lesbian"), at least the straight girls yelling "men are trash" still want good dick (and love and affection ).

But there are plenty of liberal minded girls out there who are attractive.

You just need to look at the breakdown of party affiliation, Democrats have more women, Republicans more men. Democrats greater percentage of single women; Republican married women.

What I tend to say is Democrats have the most women, Republics have better looking women (on average, I'm hesitant to claim this in absolute terms).

Which also makes sense in terms of patriarchal structures (and marriage is a prime patriarchal structure), that the women who are most accepting of the old exchange of "youth + beauty" for a husband's "money + status" will be the ones with the most "youth + beauty" to bargain with.

And, to your purple haired point, Camille Paglia wrote about "The Purple Menace" that invaded the Feminist movement I think between the 2nd and 3rd waves. These were the lesbians who tried to turn all women against men, instead of women who wanted more of their rights recognized, but still wanted men in their lives. This was also the origin of slogans like "All sex with men is rape", and other radical man hating nonsense.

Also by the way, I'm not sure what style of game you generally practice, but in nightgame a solo set is rare. Usually you have to at least deal with the friend(s) in some manner. So your girl can be pretty, thin and cool, but her "purple haired lesbian" friend (physically, or spiritually haha!) might pose a challenge to you. And handling as detailed above in a smooth way is probably going to win both your girl and her friend over some.

 

[naturalmikey]

The purple haired lesbian idea is a strawman, although quite a few of them make noise on the internet. You're right, those are the most vocal critics of men, and the least invested in the fate of men (indicated by "lesbian"), at least the straight girls yelling "men are trash" still want good dick (and love and affection ).

But there are plenty of liberal minded girls out there who are attractive.

You just need to look at the breakdown of party affiliation, Democrats have more women, Republicans more men. Democrats greater percentage of single women; Republican married women.

What I tend to say is Democrats have the most women, Republics have better looking women (on average, I'm hesitant to claim this in absolute terms).

Which also makes sense in terms of patriarchal structures (and marriage is a prime patriarchal structure), that the women who are most accepting of the old exchange of "youth + beauty" for a husband's "money + status" will be the ones with the most "youth + beauty" to bargain with.

And, to your purple haired point, Camille Paglia wrote about "The Purple Menace" that invaded the Feminist movement I think between the 2nd and 3rd waves. These were the lesbians who tried to turn all women against men, instead of women who wanted more of their rights recognized, but still wanted men in their lives. This was also the origin of slogans like "All sex with men is rape", and other radical man hating nonsense.

Also by the way, I'm not sure what style of game you generally practice, but in nightgame a solo set is rare. Usually you have to at least deal with the friend(s) in some manner. So your girl can be pretty, thin and cool, but her "purple haired lesbian" friend (physically, or spiritually haha!) might pose a challenge to you. And handling as detailed above in a smooth way is probably going to win both your girl and her friend over some.

i live in california. all the attrractive girls here are liberal. i've never met one who even really knows anything about pua, let alone is anti pua. friends are the biggest challenge in night game. but have you really seen a hot girl with a purple haired lesbian friend. granted the girls i get are considerably hotter than what most puas get (at least in america) and i realize that. but still i don't even see cute girls out with that kind of girl.

 

[Watts]

i live in california. all the attrractive girls here are liberal. i've never met one who even really knows anything about pua, let alone is anti pua. friends are the biggest challenge in night game. but have you really seen a hot girl with a purple haired lesbian friend. granted the girls i get are considerably hotter than what most puas get (at least in america) and i realize that. but still i don't even see cute girls out with that kind of girl.

I once bedded a former pro cheerleader, same night, who had a copy of "The Game" by Neil Strauss on her nightstand lol

Pickup is fairly mainstream. And it's usually not cast in a positive light. That Gillette "man up" commercial a few years back is a good example.

Also, attractive women get harassed a lot, I know my former main girl made up a fake name and everything to give to the guys who approached her on the street.

So I'm sure these attractive girls you interact with know enough about it to form a (mostly negative) bias (although some women who have good empathy towards men won't do this, and ones who are more self-aware and attempt objectivity will be more sympathetic to their male counterparts).

Where we agree is that you don't normally find a huge variance in attraction with girls, not a 10 with a 2, but there are plenty of closer ones. And also as I said, there are "spiritual purple haired lesbians", as well as just women who hate men for whatever reason (they could have been raped or experience other trauma, you never know).

So I'm not really sure what you mean by no "cute girls with purple haired lesbians", but I think this conversation is getting academic.

But keep talking only to uber hotties who only ever have cute friends and above, and enforce strict "no fat chicks" and "no purple hair" on their friend group! If we could all only be so lucky! haha

 

[naturalmikey]

i didn't say they don't have chubby friends. they almost all do. they don't have purple haired lesbian friends. never seen it.

the game came out in what 2006 and the pickup artist aired a few years later. then julien got a lot of attention in 2014. you think hot 22 year olds have any idea what pua is? clearly you don't have much experience with young girls. because they don't have a clue. if you like older chicks, maybe. idk what older chicks know about pua. maybe they remember the game, probably. so i guess it's just a different perspective depending on the kind of girls you're hooking up with.

 

[Watts]

i didn't say they don't have chubby friends. they almost all do. they don't have purple haired lesbian friends. never seen it.

I don't think you got the joke.

the game came out in what 2006 and the pickup artist aired a few years later. then julien got a lot of attention in 2014. you think hot 22 year olds have any idea what pua is? clearly you don't have much experience with young girls. because they don't have a clue. if you like older chicks, maybe. idk what older chicks know about pua. maybe they remember the game, probably. so i guess it's just a different perspective depending on the kind of girls you're hooking up with.

I gave you clear, concrete, irrefutable evidence that you were wrong... and you moved the goalposts! haha

It's Saturday morning. I just got back from hooking up with a sexy 24 year old... is that young enough for you? And she knew I was 34. There was a very sexy 19 year old at a concert a little while back, her friends told me "she liked older men" lol. Does that count?!?!

Although admittedly I definitely didn't ask them (or the ex cheerleader) if they knew about "game", seems counterproductive to me. Maybe that's what you do though, I'm not sure, feel free to let us all in on your process.

But it seems to me you want to have a pickup competition whereas I'm trying to learn and grow with like-minded people.

I get the sneaking suspicion we're not going to have very productive exchanges. I could be wrong though. Hope that's not the case.

 

[naturalmikey]

I don't think you got the joke.



I gave you clear, concrete, irrefutable evidence that you were wrong... and you moved the goalposts! haha

It's Saturday morning. I just got back from hooking up with a sexy 24 year old... is that young enough for you? And she knew I was 34. There was a very sexy 19 year old at a concert a little while back, her friends told me "she liked older men" lol. Does that count?!?!

Although admittedly I definitely didn't ask them (or the ex cheerleader) if they knew about "game", seems counterproductive to me. Maybe that's what you do though, I'm not sure, feel free to let us all in on your process.

But it seems to me you want to have a pickup competition whereas I'm trying to learn and grow with like-minded people.

I get the sneaking suspicion we're not going to have very productive exchanges. I could be wrong though. Hope that's not the case.

you may want to look up the term anectdotal. look bro pua is deader than elvis. all the forums are gone. pua peaked after the game. also got a lot of attention with rsd julien. since about 2017 i've noticed the community getting smaller and smaller to the point where it seems completely underground again.

 

[Carousel]

Pickup is known to the masses in diluted, commercial form. The Game by Neil, RSD guys, Roosh etc - all of these have been subject to much press coverage. Lots of videos available at Youtube with PU content also.

However, highly technical pickup is NOT mainstream.

 

[Watts]

i live in california. all the attrractive girls here are liberal. i've never met one who even really knows anything about pua, let alone is anti pua.

you may want to look up the term anectdotal.

Anecdotal -Of anecdote, an example of one. lol

And like I said (and you didn't answer), you don't ask these girls about their knowledge of game, so you really don't know what they do or don't know.

Also, you ignored it when I mentioned the Man Up Gillette Commercial, which portrayed men approaching women on the street negatively, and which was a huge scandal on social media in just January this year.

But not really sure what you're trying to prove with this? That the persuasion stack that Chase posted isn't worth knowing? If you don't care for it, move on.

Either way, I'm done responding to you in this thread.

Pickup is known to the masses in diluted, commercial form. The Game by Neil, RSD guys, Roosh etc - all of these have been subject to much press coverage. Lots of videos available at Youtube with PU content also.

However, highly technical pickup is NOT mainstream.

Thanks Carousel. And the point is not that these girls are going to recognize a neg or call out the "who lies more" gambit, but that there is pushback on men approaching women, which is related to a pushback on gender norms.

And, it's already been dealt with over half a dozen responses ago.

 

[naturalmikey]

there is pushback on men approaching women, which is related to a pushback on gender norms.

And, it's already been dealt with over half a dozen responses ago.

that i’ll agree with. but it’s not all men. i have actually never had a fuck off reaction. i do get a lot of polite rejections. i’ll start asking girls if they’ve heard of pua and guys learning game. i don’t mind science.

 

[Skills]

i’ll start asking girls if they’ve heard of pua and guys learning game.

wowow! that is cringe...

 

[naturalmikey]

wowow! that is cringe...

nothing is cringe when girls find you hot lol i’m gonna do it on tinder. cringe is basically anything you do when girls find you unattractive.

 

[Watts]

i’ll start asking girls if they’ve heard of pua and guys learning game. i don’t mind science.

Nevermind mikey. You're alright in my book. Subscribed for your results. lol

 

[naturalmikey]

wowow! that is cringe...

i’ll be honest man. you thinking you can’t do that in a way that makes it not cringe makes me question everything about you and at nextasf i trusted your opinions. i guess i’m the only one who gives proof so maybe everyone is full of shit. but how would asking a girl in set “so what do you think of these pickup artists guys?” be cringe. the fact that you think there’s a question that can’t be asked when frames the right way without being cringe is a pretty clear sign you have weak verbal game.