BDSC

[ray_zorse]

Great job on your body fundamentals, acting more unfiltered and sexy, and realizing that women love you and want your cock.

About the pretty nurses comment, well done, but IMO the reason it changed her demeanor was it was a subtle (or not so subtle) sexual frame and communicated to her that you are a sexual man. Compliments are fine as a conversation starter but apart from that I am not convinced they do much for you.

Ray

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Ray,

Thanks for the comments. I agree the compliment is good for starting the conversation. It sets in her mind that you are interested in her sexually. After that it can start to look needy.

I am working on the sexy walk. I am finding that if I use the mental attitude of "I'm going to kick your ass." it helps me to get the proper stance as I walk. I have decided to change it up a little to tone it down a little to "I'm going to eat your pussy." I think this sets me as a lover towards the women plus puts me in the proper frame of mind towards women that will drive them nuts. I will see how it goes.

One interesting thing that happened with the nurse is I was hoping another nurse who was there a few days before would be working. She is in the upper 10% of looks and was very caring with my Dad. Unfortunately I was with my wife so I couldn't approach. When I came up to the desk and she wasn't there I was disappointed. This clouded my judgement of the new nurse. I didn't see her clearly. When I came back to the desk I noticed that she was a babe. That is when my attitude towards her changed and this is what made the difference in her.

This is such a learning process. Everyday I realize new things about women and how they work.

BDSC

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

An update from last night. I had my monthly evaluation at the gym. I am still at the same weight but it was a pre workout weight instead of post like I normally do. This is usually 2 pounds more than the post weight. I lost 2" on my waist and chest. 1 1/2" on my arms. Pretty good for just over a month. The trainer said to change up the routine so I don't plateau.

Regarding A.. things were a bit weird, It wasn't us but the situation. After i worked out I went to get a drink and she was standing outside the nursery. Sometimes she works the nursery. So I stopped and talked for a couple minutes.

Me: How did your meeting go with the track coach. (Her university track team).
Her: I made the team.
Me: Awesome that is great.
Her: Thanks. I was supposed to work until 8:30 tonight but I have to work to 10:00 because we are short handed. (It is almost 8:30. At first I thought she was complaining about having to work longer but then I realized she it telling me she would have been available to get together if it wasn't for work.)
Me: Well that suck. I guess you will be glad to get home then. (I couldn't stay that late. My way of telling her.)
Her: Yeah.

Next is the weird part. When this happens it changes the mood for me.

Her: I am looking for her (she points to one of the toddlers) mothers. She has a full diaper and it is leaking through. (For an instant I think I could watch the kids or go find the mother but then I think this is an investment I am not willing to make.)
Me: I guess you will have to get one of the managers. (I start to walk away.)
Her: Bye I will see you.
Me: Bye.

When I first saw A... I could tell she wasn't in a great mood. I now know why. She was dealing with a kid with a messy diaper and she wouldn't get to see me after work. It is odd that she was expecting me to be there since I don't usually work out on Wednesday nights. She either doesn't have my routine down or checked the computer and saw I had a meeting scheduled. The next time I see her it is time to get a date set up before she auto rejects.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

I am sure you guys will be getting tired of hearing about the gym but right now it is my main social outing. An update on the weight now at 347.6 lbs.

I had a little fun tonight. While I was on one of the machine two new young ladies come in. One is ok cute but the other is pretty hot. Finally a hot girl in the gym. They go over to one of the sales guys and sign up. They then go into the class room. I finish on the weight machines and being the old perv I am I get a tread mill so I can watch. My buddy the head trainer is teaching the class. As the class went along the hot girl is not keeping up with her cute friend. I see an opportunity to be the dominate male. I finish on the treadmill and go weigh. I see I have dropped the weight below 350. I had told my buddy this was one of my goals. I go into the classroom and walk over to him. I tell him and he says awesome. We high five and talk about how my evaluation went yesterday. I then give him some crap about not working out with the class. I do this all to build some social status in front of the girls. As I am walking out I point at the hot girl and say so the ladies here me

me: You need to push Princess harder. Her cutie friend is kicking her butt.
her: What did you say?
me: I said your friend is kicking your butt and you need to work harder.
her: I know.

She smiles at me as I walk out. I have set the stage as a dominate man by busting her chops in a fun way. As hot as she is I am sure she is used to guys drooling and falling all over themselves around her. I will maintain the dominate man frame and see how it goes. I really enjoy doing this kind of stuff.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

I have got to post this before I exploded. I have a lunch date with a real cutie from work tomorrow. Yes I know lunch dates are bad but I don't give a shit. This is my first date with someone other than my wife in 33 years. Damn I am nervous.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

I had the lunch date with J. It some ways it was good and in others not what I wanted. I am not ready to FR this yet so I am putting it here. We went to lunch at a restaurant I thought none of our coworkers would show up at. I was right. Right off the bat as we get in my car she starts telling me about herself. I was surprised when I found out she was from San Francisco. I had her pegged for a local. Without getting into all I found out about her I will hit some highlights.

I knew she is married. Her relationship is strong with her husband.
She made several comments about me and her getting together again. She at least likes my company. She seems genuinely interested in me as a person.
Eye contact was average. In and out.
She did not mine at all when I touched her. No resistance.
I never got any sexual vibe but that could be my fault as I did not push.
I did make a sexual comment that made her laugh. She said everyone calls her grandma because she likes to garden and sit around the house. I told her she was the sexiest grandma I ever saw.
I did notice some social value increase. I caught, one of the waitress (not ours) who is reasonably cute with a hot body, checking me out a couple of times. I have seen her before and she never gave me a look when I was with the guys. It could be better fundamental and being with an attractive woman.
She said she will come by and see me in my office every so often.
She said that sometime we will have to invite T, a coworker, with us to lunch. She said I will like her. I don't want T there unless I have given up on bedding J. T will kill any shot I have at this.

My take aways.
I am concerned about being friended or becoming an orbiter. This is not what I want. I see her as a FWB.
I really can not tell if she is open to sex.
I didn't push the sexual framing enough.
I didn't touch enough.
I am nervous about not being able to escalate.
I could have done better with escalation but I was afraid of rejection.

My action plan.
We talked about how she likes history and animals. We also talked about how she doesn't get out and do much.

I am going to suggest that we go on an adventure. Take the day off from work and go to the zoo or the history museum. Of course my intent is to escalate and pull her somewhere for sex.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions or comments.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Re: I need advise

I have a second lunch date with J on Monday. At lunch I am going to ask her to take of a day from work so we can hang out and have fun. I want to be clear this is not a platonic relationship. I want to build a long term FWB relationship. How direct should I be? I don't want to screw this up if possible.

 

[Seppuku]

Hey Big Daddy,

You should first think where you're going to pull her, then find out a date idea close to the seduction place, and have some idea of how you're going to transition there. Always the goal in mind.

Make sure your "fun date" does not take too long time. The earlier in the date you pull, the better. Once you're in your seduction location it will still take time to escalate. So if she has a total of three hours, make sure you do not take more than one hour on your "fun date", and at least two hours for the escalation and sex. So you want to avoid a too fancy date.

What you really need to do with her, face to face, is to build emotional connection, build comfort, but also physical connection. When you meet her on your fun date, immediately take her hand in yours. The first minute. It's easy, just put your hand next to hers, palm up, like your silently asking her hand. She will put it by herself. There will be no doubt left in her mind, and that saves you a lot of talking. It will also make further touching more natural. This touching is the beginning of the physical escalation.

About FWB. Don't discuss this openly upfront, it will creep her out. Have sex first. Then see how you can make the relationship evolve this way.

Cheers,
Seppuku

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Seppuku,

Thanks buddy. Good advice. She came by my office about 10 minutes ago. Looking sexy and being flirty. I pretty sure she wants me as bad as I want her. I just need to keep my cool.

Another thought. Using items from our previous conversation I thought up a premise to up the sexual frame. Let me know what you think.

me: Do you have a bucket list?
Her: Blah Blah
Me: I would like to do that to. I when to the Grand Canyon this year so that is one thing off my list. I have another item that has been on my list for a long time. I want to have hot passion sex with a California girl who skated boarded, colored her hair and now lives on a farm. (This is her.) I hope to get that off my bucket list real soon.
Her: haha and blush.
Me: I was thinking we both need a fun adventure before the weather gets bad. Lets take off a day next week and have some fun together.
Her: What did you have in mind.
Me: I thought we would go to ..... (items she likes to do)
Her: Ok. Sounds good.
Me: How about Monday?

BDSC

 

[ray_zorse]

Yeah, radeng basically hit the main points that occurred to me reading your report/date plan, I also wanted to mention that I FU'd with a very early girl ([C] in my journal, I hadn't run out of letters at that stage), she was definitely keen but I FU'd by trying to kiss her in a bar, kissing her at the end of the date (ruining the tension and letting her know what would happen on the next hangout), then meeting her platonically for coffee to suggest a trip down the coast for one night. Definitely too much compliance, I cringe a bit thinking about it now -- if I wasn't a total rookie I would have laid her on the first date. Anyway, there is a lot working against you here, you're married, you're colleagues, and whether or not she has a partner it works against you either way (she's looking for a man -> you're unavailable, she's attached -> you're asking her to cheat), so if she has to make a logical decision, which is what you're proposing with your multi date idea, answer will be NO. It must be an emotional decision due to her being caught up in the whirlwind you create with your date. IMO you have one shot at this, which is to be a total badass, nail her with strong EC and long silences and lots of touch and sexual framing, move her early in the date, and try to pull off either a hotel checkin, take her standing up in the restaurant toilets, take her to a secluded park with a picnic rug and blanket, or do her in your car. All pretty challenging for a new guy. Hmm.
Ray

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Man this is complicated. Thanks for the advise. Outside of work hours I have a very narrow time window. I know hers is bad too. Her being married with a young daughter leaves little opportunities. That is why I was thinking taking off from work. So discretion, build compliance and pull.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Update on weight loss. Saturday morning I weighed 343.6 lbs which is 48.4 lbs lost.

Update on A at the gym. She definetly auto rejected me. I saw her on Saturday as I was leaving the gym. She saw me and quickly looked away with a pissed look. She did not look back. To me this is awesome because this is an 18 year old cute blonde who is pissed because I, a 56 year old guy, didn't ask her out. I understand why she is pissed. She let her friends know she was interested in me and then I didn't come through. Several things I learned on this site made this happen.

I am changing my user name. I feel I have progress pasted the old name. Sophisticated Gent fits where I am headed.

 

[Seppuku]

Hey SG,

To me this is awesome because this is an 18 year old cute blonde who is pissed because I, a 56 year old guy, didn't ask her out.

I know the feeling man. I'm myself a 46 years old guy and in the last 12 months I slept with 11 girls aged between 24 and 33 years old. Plus many more dates. I couldn't agree more, it's awesome. It shows than man's value does not grow old.

And they're not expecting you to ask them out. They're expecting you to fuck them, purely and simply, whether they admit it to themselves consciously or not. I look back and see how many dates I lost because all I was doing is asking them out. My dates last year, and earlier this year. Learned my lesson.

Anyway keep up the work!

Cheers,
Seppuku
PS. Was getting used to Big Daddy but OK ;-)

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Seppuku,

It is cool and it like nobody know this. None of they guys I know have a clue. I want to keep it that way. More for me. My biggest issue is logistic with being married. I have some ideas how to work around it but it is tough. If I was single like you I would be bedding them left and right. I still wouldn't have bedded the 18 year old at the gym because she is in high school. Even when they are 18 here there is a big social stigmatism to bedding high school girls. Once they graduate that goes away.

SGent

 

[ray_zorse]

Yeah, the time management issue is pretty tough.

Although my current relationship is evolving towards live-in (she's asleep upstairs right now) and satisfies basically all of my sexual needs, I have occasionally grabbed a no. in recent months because it seemed like a layup, but have discovered it's pretty difficult to match my schedule to theirs, since every weekend is out (either spent with my kids or with my girlfriend or both), and Wednesdays I'm busy with kids, so that only leaves 3 evenings a week, and I need that time anyway.

You could try joining some kind of society etc with meetings on weeknights (in my case I go to the Codependents Anonymous group which is like Alcoholics Anonymous but is for people with relationship problems e.g. neediness and dependence on their partner, control issues, etc... there's another one which is a support group for divorced dads, although I have only attended once, did not like it very much and it clashes with CoDA in any case)... that can easily be skipped.

But overall I honestly feel for myself that since my sexual needs are basically satiated (I felt rather tired last night, did not really feel like sex, but since I had not laid her that day and she was clearly horny, I stepped up to the plate and fucked her and ended up having a good time, even if it took until 2am)... it's better I just focus on my work and hobbies and body fundamentals for the time being, I have little enough work time as it is, so it's better I don't do lots of approaching/dating.

Kudos to you for juggling a difficult situation and still striving to improve with girls, I know how difficult it is. By the way I'm curious as to your relationship with your wife, are you having regular and satisfying sex? Have you put any of the relationship management advice from GC into practice? Because I'm finding my current relationship is A LOT SMOOTHER having been run according to GC principles from the start, with me basically being a boss and maintaining lots of attraction.

Ray

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Ray,

Unfortunately the sex life with my wife is none existent. Being big I have diabetes and was taking some meds which kill things a few years ago. I am off those meds now which happened about five months ago. It has been so long that the appeal has totally gone between us. It sounds sad but it is not bad. She hasn't taken care of herself so the emotional love is there just not the intimacy. Honesty, as I am finding all this attraction to other women it doesn't bother me to be with her and find sex elsewhere. I am sure if she finds out she will be hurt but I don't think she will leave. She really has no interest in sex anymore. Just so you know she is an awesome person who care deeply for everyone. I really couldn't find a better life partner. We really do enjoy each others company. A lot of people would think of me as a real asshole if they knew but they don't understand the dynamics. People are a lot more complex than our society give room for. My biggest thing I have to do is not get emotionally involved with the other women. I have always been able to do this with one exception that happened 15 years ago. I learned from that situation.

I have a new situation that may happen soon that will change my ability to have more free time. When it happens I will be able to give more details

SGent

 

[ray_zorse]

Interesting man, I have been pondering this all day and, I know I've lectured a bit in the past, and I wouldn't want to give the impression of butting into another dude's business, but I couldn't help running a few thoughts by you here. I will try not to give unsolicited advice, my idea is just to stimulate discussion.

The obvious thing that occurs is, why not just tell your wife (or strongly imply) you'll be late home because you're meeting some girl for sex? Obviously, don't do this at the dinner table haha... but if as you say, mutual attraction is nonexistent from BOTH sides yet a great friendship exists, wouldn't she be happy for you?

Or is the situation a little more complex... I mean, to help me get an idea of the situation here, what would happen if you made some moves on her? Would she be pleased... is it that attraction is gone from YOUR side (I'm taking it that her body isn't as attractive to you as it once was) and you feel a bit guilty about this?

What makes you feel that she isn't sexually attracted to you anymore? Is it that situations occurred where you were too needy/beta and attraction died? Somehow this doesn't fit my image of you. Is it a body thing? What evidence do you actually have that she feels this way? Have you discussed it with her?

As a backdrop I'm aware that social position, church etc, and how things look through your daughters' eyes is also important to you, and you don't want to upset the applecart. But still... you must surely be aware that you're REALLY tying your hands behind your back here (logistically speaking at the very least).

I have a bit of experience with sexless relationships, or difficulty with mutual attraction or getting sex in relationships. For instance (as one of many examples), after my 2nd child was born my wife wouldn't have sex with me for more than a year. Looking back I'm surprised I put up with this, it would never happen today. Although I suppose I was hoping the situation would improve, and that I could continue to honour my commitments, and superficially the situation did improve eventually. My strategy was to act like I didn't care that much, as I didn't want to be vulnerable (this was probably sensible, given she eventually turned out to have a personality disorder). Is that what's preventing you from acting? It appears here, that you've lost all hope of an eventual resolution. Why persevere then?

Ray

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Ray,

The lose of sexual attraction is mutual. We have discussed this. I feel on her part it is a lose of her sexual desires completely. Why I don't know. For me I just don't find her sexy anymore.

It was not a needy issue with me. I have always been the Alpha in the relationship. She knows I have always had choices of women outside the marriage but I never chose to act on them. When I look back now I had even more choices than I realized.

As far as telling her about other lovers the religion issue plays a big part. I don't think she will ever be able to deal with it without being hurt. She was raised by a strict conservative father. She is very close with her family. If they find out it will hurt her because I will become the ostracized by her family.

Yes it ties my hand but I have to deal with it. I need the sexual attention and now that I am getting it in large quantities it is driving me even more.

When I have more time I will tell you about A that I worked with years ago. She plays a role in the situation.

I appreciate you keeping track of what is going on with me. I have only one guy that I can talk with about this stuff and we don't see each other very often.

SG

 

[ray_zorse]

I see, what you've described is caretaking your wife's emotions, and this is something that Nice Guys(tm) learn to do from a very young age, because it "feels" socially acceptable -- after all what could be more honourable, more admirable, than putting someone else's needs before your own? But caretaking is actually a rationalization that hides the real (subconscious) reason that Nice Guys(tm) don't express their needs, the real reason is they deep-down feel it's not okay to be exactly who they are. I mean look at the situation here, you're basically living a lie for the sake of appearances, to your daughters, your wife's family, the rest of the congregation etc, it's a successful marriage, but in reality it's a friendship. That says to me that deep-down you feel you'll be judged by all these people if you express exactly who you are -- a sexual man who wants to shack up with a hot 21yo and have lots of sex. But in actual fact the latter is a NORMAL GUY whereas the former is a NICE GUY(tm). Unfortunately as Nice Guys(tm) (myself included) we actually lose sight of our true needs and motivations because they're hidden under so many layers of rationalizations (people need us, etc). Read this book for more information. The good thing is you're on these boards, digging up the real you and expressing yourself piece-by-piece in a safe place (like I do in CoDA).
Ray

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Ray,

I know you are exactly correct. My issue is the risk of losing those things (people, security, my home, financial stability and social standing) in my life are very difficult to rationalize. I am definitely struggling with what to do.

SGent