Can someone please give a different perspective on being assertive and being non-reactive with a girl?

[Skills]

I've just glazed over some responses, though I guess the main issue has been addressed.
Things I'd like to point out and differentiate to clarify:
- women who string you along and have no BF
- women who string you along and do have a BF

If she has no BF, she probably thinks about you as an interesting prospect (or else she was not gonna respond). You can text her using a small amount of comfort and applying @Skills script of ping>comfort/flirt>soft close>hard close (just move things forward and do not scare her away with too much player vibes or boredom). Just don't text too much.

But If she has a BF, she probably does not know where to slot you yet, so you become the spare candidate. In those situations, you cannot give her any indication you want a relationship! This is the number one error guys make!

If she is taken, fuck, put on your lover boy pants and go straight up to flirting all the time. Even if you do not fuck her right away, you gonna cement yourself in her subconscious as the perfect candidate for a quick revenge/relieve fuck when the BF is away or goes out of the picture. Just flirt flirt flirt>soft close> (and if successful) booty call her every time you text her!!!

Last, I think it's ok the let yourself be strung along a bit as long as these two conditions happen:
- it's you leading the interaction, meaning when if try to hard close/booty call and she bails, you politely remove attention for a while and reset the situation...do not let her dictate how the interactions go!
- she is already "taken" and you are building yourself as a side fuck; You are there to meet and seduce her in a way her main guy doesn't and that's it;

^ his main problem is he got needy...... and got caught by her.... by his own admission he has not gotten laid in a year.... she left him in read in 3 hours... the move was to wait... and wait.... after 3 hours he got pissed and sent the text = game over.... In sales whoever speak first
loses...

^ Notice how he was about to talk, vin diesel actor told him to shut up and wait... A lot of time post hard close women will delay answer (i personally believe is a way of testing, you have to wait for response)



But then again that is why i do the style of texting i recommend you are not putting women ON THE DECISION SPOT? At point of high investment you test waters, you give a soft close, if she game you go for the close if no you cont. rinse wash repeat...

 

[Skills]

Yesterday I tried finding your archives and couldn't find it. Looked through your profile, did a search etc. Where are they?

Thanks again

click on my profile and then under find "find all threads by skills" clicks on the one that are about call and text... anyways i am going to make one about delay texting even though i have talk about this before, i had same issue with my now main, that can drive you nuts... But you still have to wait lol... Anyways, i will make a post about delay in texting, the thing is and again I have talk about this before, when they take long to text you start assuming you did something wrong in your game, or they are just not interest... Sometimes that is what happens, but a lot of times women are just super busy with tons of shit going on....

 

[Calibration]

when they take long to text you start assuming you did something wrong in your game, or they are just not interest...

Exactly... This!

 

[Calibration]

You're lucky because most girls won't tell you they have a boyfriend. You have to read in between the lines and play your role. And I had to learn that lesson the hard way a few times when I called girls after we shagged and their Boyfriends picked up the phone

So definitely don't call, it may blow her cover, and try your best to stay cool during texting while staying focused on setting up the meet

I should've taken this advice seriously. Holy shit!!! Today I called a girl who hadn't responded to my text in a week. She picked my call not knowing it was me and looks like her BF was around. I said "I felt like listening to your raspy voice and so called you" and very quickly she mentioned that her partner and she had went away on travel and so she didn't text me back. Damn!!! I actually felt sorry for busting her balls. I'm not going to call any girl anymore. Her voice tone was crying - "hangup the fucking call!!!" She tried asking my schedule but I said, just text me and we'll figure that out!! That was an awkward experience for both of us!!!

 

[Calibration]

click on my profile and then under find "find all threads by skills" clicks on the one that are about call and text... anyways i am going to make one about delay texting even though i have talk about this before, i had same issue with my now main, that can drive you nuts... But you still have to wait lol... Anyways, i will make a post about delay in texting, the thing is and again I have talk about this before, when they take long to text you start assuming you did something wrong in your game, or they are just not interest... Sometimes that is what happens, but a lot of times women are just super busy with tons of shit going on....

Hey @Skills I've gone through all your posts thoroughly. On Saturday I met a girl in the art gallery and had a decent conversation for nearly 10 mins. I followed your principles open > banter > soft close > hard close. She appeared like she was too invested in the conversation and was responding quickly but after the hard close text, it's been 12 hrs and she has gone radio-silent. You mentioned above and in the other post that it's a shit-test and I have to wait but is it just that she was enjoying the conversation and attention over text and was not ready to come out at all? Is there a way to weed out such girls pre-emptively to avoid wasting time or is it just part of the game and one has to go through it?

Btw, could I have done anything better? Posting the interaction:

https://imgur.com/a/GuSY1mv

 

[TomInHo]

Hey @Skills I've gone through all your posts thoroughly. On Saturday I met a girl in the art gallery and had a decent conversation for nearly 10 mins. I followed your principles open > banter > soft close > hard close. She appeared like she was too invested in the conversation and was responding quickly but after the hard close text, it's been 12 hrs and she has gone radio-silent.

She went radio silent because you didn't soft close. You still went for the hard close without her agreeing to the idea of meeting up.

Also, your text...

"I met this girl with a calm vibe but looks like she's high spirited...you'll have to meet her sometime" comes off as chasy to me. It makes it seem like you've already been won over

Showing interest is good, but you're not giving her any more room to impress you.

And your hard close was too overeager. Because I've noticed that girls close better when you involve them in the closing process. For example

Spoiler: Closing Date Over Text

Shawn: "You're intriguing, but they're still some things about you that I need to clear up"

Her: "I have multiple layers. What do you want to know?"

Shawn: "So many questions, so little time. Might need to learn more about your layers in person soon" --> SOFT CLOSE

Her: "I would love that. Got some questions for you too" ---> SHE AGREES TO SOFT CLOSE

Shawn: "Glad we're on the same page. What's your schedule like this week for that to happen?"--> HARD CLOSE

Her: "I'm free, X,Y,Z day and blahblahblahblah times work best" ---> "SHE AGREES TO HARD CLOSE"

Shawn: "Ever been to X location in Y city? ---> SETTING LOGISTICS... BABY STEPPING

Her: "No I haven't. What's it like?"

Shawn: " It's a dope bar that has some of the trippiest art I've ever seen. Let meet there on Wednesday..... 7pm sounds good?"

Her: "That's sounds so cool. And yes Wednesday at 7pm is perfect"

Shawn: "Wonderful. See you then. And make sure to bring all your layers"

Her: "Lol..... Deal"

By doing a Soft Close > Hard Close > Logistics in baby steps, it gives you the chance to build investment & rapport with her and greatly minimize the chances of getting ghosted or flaked on.

This makes the date feel like it was her idea too, and creates a good team dynamic between the both of you. Which relieves a lot of pressure from her compared to if you just went for the hard close from the jump

 

[Calibration]

She went radio silent because you didn't soft close. You still went for the hard close without her agreeing to the idea of meeting up.

Also, your text...

"I met this girl with a calm vibe but looks like she's high spirited...you'll have to meet her sometime" comes off as chasy to me. It makes it seem like you've already been won over

I did think about this coming across as chasy but I thought 3rd person reference softens that statement and I thought "you'll have to meet her sometime" is a soft close

Showing interest is good, but you're not giving her any more room to impress you.

And your hard close was too overeager. Because I've noticed that girls close better when you involve them in the closing process. For example

Spoiler: Closing Date Over Text

Shawn: "You're intriguing, but they're still some things about you that I need to clear up"

Her: "I have multiple layers. What do you want to know?"

Shawn: "So many questions, so little time. Might need to learn more about your layers in person soon" --> SOFT CLOSE

Her: "I would love that. Got some questions for you too" ---> SHE AGREES TO SOFT CLOSE

Shawn: "Glad we're on the same page. What's your schedule like this week for that to happen?"--> HARD CLOSE

Her: "I'm free, X,Y,Z day and blahblahblahblah times work best" ---> "SHE AGREES TO HARD CLOSE"

Shawn: "Every been to X location in Y city? ---> SETTING LOGISTICS... BABY STEPPING

Her: "No I haven't. What's it like?"

Shawn: " It's a dope bar that has some of the trippiest art I've ever seen. Let meet there on Wednesday..... 7pm sounds good?"

Her: "That's sounds so cool. And yes Wednesday at 7pm is perfect"

Shawn: "Wonderful. See you then. And make sure to bring all your layers"

Her: "Lol..... Deal"

By doing a Soft Close > Hard Close > Logistics in baby steps, it gives you the chance to build investment & rapport with her and greatly minimize the chances of getting ghosted or flaked on.

This makes the date feel like it was her idea too, and creates a good team dynamic between the both of you. Which relieves a lot of pressure from her compared to if you just went for the hard close from the jump

Above looks good but TBH.. this method actually felt stressful since waiting for the text and crafting a reply is exhausting. So, I went for the hard close:
1. To get rid of that stress
2. I feel worried that I'll fuck it up if I do too much back and forth
3. Since the time gap between every text was 3-4 hours, if I add more back and forth:
a. Doesn't it come across as trying hard and not getting to the point?
b. Doesn't the conversation go boring if it's stretched out for too long?

BTW, she responded just a while ago which I haven't opened. In the notification: "oooooo omg - which jazz clubs are you planning to take me to ?"

Actually I've fucked up the logistics a bit with that statement cos I don't know if the Jazz gigs are still happening cos of covid. So, I'm not sure what to reply. I'm planning to get back to her after work

 

[StrayDog]

sounds like she is still responsive so it can still pan out. Some observations I am having about your texting
-you tend to use a lot of emojis. more than she does.
-you imply that she was the most interesting thing about the gallery
-you reiterate that you very much find her intriguing
-you give her a soft compliment by saying she will be jamming with the greats
-you send her a song (that she may or may not enjoy)
-Your date invitation lacks clarity "we can either do this, or that"

while she is responsive
-she does not openly tell you she is interested or intrigued by you
-She does say you are good at reading people which is kind of a compliment but it is a statement that is real focused on the compliment you gave her. Essentially "you're so good a recognizing how chill and high spirited I am!"
-The word count of your responses are sometimes similar. But a good amount of your responses are way longer.
-You ask her a question about her schedule and she responds with a different question. She does not answer your question
-Her response is "what jazz clubs are you planning to take me to" not "what jazz clubs are we going to"

This dynamic definitely creates a position where it is very clear you have bought into her and it is only slightly clear how interested in you she is.
Like I say, this can still pan out but chances are this the precedent of this dynamic will still be present on the date. My inclination would be to say that she is currently screening you for either a boyfriend or friend position in her life and hasn't yet considered you for a lover. But you are closer to the thing than me so you know the vibe more. The texting phase of things is so predicated on how the initial interaction went down and this phase can be way more simple if during that interaction you
-Gain small levels of compliance
-Use some push pull to indicate you are not quite sold
-Set some lover frames
-Land on a date idea

This puts you in a good position to lead the interaction via text. Rather than anticipating her responses you are using her responses to move the conversation in the right direction

With in a couple hours after meeting
You: Nice to meet -Shawn
Her: You too!!!
Wait a a moment to respond to her. Maybe the next day around noon or so
You: I'm still processing all that wild art work. Bet you got enough inspiration to compose a masterpiece
Her: Wild for sure. Totally inspired
You: Well, you're definitely going to be inspired by Fat Jack Slims (jazz bar). Still amazed you've never been. Suppose you can't expect musicians to know about EVERY cool thing!
Her: Lol, we can try though
You: Lol, well do try to be on time. I know how musicians love to get caught up in their music. Speaking of which, what's your week like? I was thinking Wednesday around 6 or 7
Her: oh, I have to work late wednesday
You: Well, drats!
Don't hear from her for a few hours
Her: How about Thursday, I get off early?
you wait a beat
You: Thursday! That's our day. Inspiration here we come
Her: Here we come!
Wait a few days
You: Hey Sally, we're gonna get so jazzed up. Tomorrow at 6 still copacetic?
Her: Hey Shawn, probably more like 7. Is that okay?
You: 7 it is! oh and hey, wear something inspiring! We'll hit the town in fashion
Her: Will do!
You: (Thumbs up emoji)

Now, this example is of course best case scenario with the presupposition that the ground work had already been laid upon initial meet. Regardless of all the hypotheticals you can still see how you are
A: Leading the interaction
B: Responding what she says as a way to lead the conversation in the direction of a date.

Note that there is no extraneous compliments or trying to build a bunch of comfort. Instead of asking a bunch of questions, sentences are phrased with reasonable assumptions that LEAD in the same place a question would ("Did the gallery inspire your next masterpiece" VS "I bet it inspired your next masterpiece") There is no frame of "I think you're so intriguing I really want to meet you". Emojis are only used as confirmation of milestones. The date is proposed with clarity, not giving her a bunch of options ("we can do this or that, we can meet this day or that day, we can meet this time or that time). It is good to give her a feeling of choice (6-7?) and then just give her the opportunity to decline if that day doesn't work. When she declines Wednesday there is no chasing or asking when another time works. This is generally how I like to you run my texts. Granted this is a best case scenario example and there can be a lot of curve balls or there wasn't a lot of time to lay the ground work on initial meet. Certainly I fumble. But a lot of these elements seem to hold up pretty strong in the face of it all.

 

[Calibration]

sounds like she is still responsive so it can still pan out. Some observations I am having about your texting
-you tend to use a lot of emojis. more than she does.
-you imply that she was the most interesting thing about the gallery
-you reiterate that you very much find her intriguing
-you give her a soft compliment by saying she will be jamming with the greats
-you send her a song (that she may or may not enjoy)
-Your date invitation lacks clarity "we can either do this, or that"

while she is responsive
-she does not openly tell you she is interested or intrigued by you
-She does say you are good at reading people which is kind of a compliment but it is a statement that is real focused on the compliment you gave her. Essentially "you're so good a recognizing how chill and high spirited I am!"
-The word count of your responses are sometimes similar. But a good amount of your responses are way longer.
-You ask her a question about her schedule and she responds with a different question. She does not answer your question
-Her response is "what jazz clubs are you planning to take me to" not "what jazz clubs are we going to"

This dynamic definitely creates a position where it is very clear you have bought into her and it is only slightly clear how interested in you she is.
Like I say, this can still pan out but chances are this the precedent of this dynamic will still be present on the date. My inclination would be to say that she is currently screening you for either a boyfriend or friend position in her life and hasn't yet considered you for a lover. But you are closer to the thing than me so you know the vibe more. The texting phase of things is so predicated on how the initial interaction went down and this phase can be way more simple if during that interaction you
-Gain small levels of compliance
-Use some push pull to indicate you are not quite sold
-Set some lover frames
-Land on a date idea

This puts you in a good position to lead the interaction via text. Rather than anticipating her responses you are using her responses to move the conversation in the right direction

With in a couple hours after meeting
You: Nice to meet -Shawn
Her: You too!!!
Wait a a moment to respond to her. Maybe the next day around noon or so
You: I'm still processing all that wild art work. Bet you got enough inspiration to compose a masterpiece
Her: Wild for sure. Totally inspired
You: Well, you're definitely going to be inspired by Fat Jack Slims (jazz bar). Still amazed you've never been. Suppose you can't expect musicians to know about EVERY cool thing!
Her: Lol, we can try though
You: Lol, well do try to be on time. I know how musicians love to get caught up in their music. Speaking of which, what's your week like? I was thinking Wednesday around 6 or 7
Her: oh, I have to work late wednesday
You: Well, drats!
Don't hear from her for a few hours
Her: How about Thursday, I get off early?
you wait a beat
You: Thursday! That's our day. Inspiration here we come
Her: Here we come!
Wait a few days
You: Hey Sally, we're gonna get so jazzed up. Tomorrow at 6 still copacetic?
Her: Hey Shawn, probably more like 7. Is that okay?
You: 7 it is! oh and hey, wear something inspiring! We'll hit the town in fashion
Her: Will do!
You: (Thumbs up emoji)

Now, this example is of course best case scenario with the presupposition that the ground work had already been laid upon initial meet. Regardless of all the hypotheticals you can still see how you are
A: Leading the interaction
B: Responding what she says as a way to lead the conversation in the direction of a date.

Note that there is no extraneous compliments or trying to build a bunch of comfort. Instead of asking a bunch of questions, sentences are phrased with reasonable assumptions that LEAD in the same place a question would ("Did the gallery inspire your next masterpiece" VS "I bet it inspired your next masterpiece") There is no frame of "I think you're so intriguing I really want to meet you". Emojis are only used as confirmation of milestones. The date is proposed with clarity, not giving her a bunch of options ("we can do this or that, we can meet this day or that day, we can meet this time or that time). It is good to give her a feeling of choice (6-7?) and then just give her the opportunity to decline if that day doesn't work. When she declines Wednesday there is no chasing or asking when another time works. This is generally how I like to you run my texts. Granted this is a best case scenario example and there can be a lot of curve balls or there wasn't a lot of time to lay the ground work on initial meet. Certainly I fumble. But a lot of these elements seem to hold up pretty strong in the face of it all.

She was a nerdy kind and very young - 18 or 19. So from her texts, the feeling I'm getting is, she's probably intrigued by the idea of a jazz bar but also she's apprehensive since I'm pretty sure she hasn't been to one

 

[StrayDog]

She was a nerdy kind and very young - 18 or 19. So from her texts, the feeling I'm getting is, she's probably intrigued by the idea of a jazz bar but also she's apprehensive since I'm pretty sure she hasn't been to one

Yes, proposing a date someone is not into can be an element(in this case a jazz bar) , that's why it is good to tailor dates to the person. That being said If she is apprehensive it most likely has less to do with the bar and more to do with how the interaction is being lead. Like I say, you can totally land this date. The key though is doing the best we can to avoid these binds in the first place. What builds comfort with women is being able to see that you can lead an interaction in a steady way that is calibrated to her. This is built in person. And comfort is not the only element in seduction. While it might seem counterintuitive, having a lot of nice friendly talk via text only does one of two things.
-Disqualifies you as a lover
-Or straight up chases her away if she feels like the guy is projecting too much onto her. As that can come with a lot of expectations

That being said your text interaction was going well despite some framing issues (Which is definitely fundamental) and I think you reached a snafu mostly on a pacing issue, you kind of just jumped into the date proposition. Maybe could have warmed her up a little bit to the date. Probably could have done this a bit more smooth by using her responses to lead the conversation in the right direction.

 

[Calibration]

Yes, proposing a date (in this case a jazz bar) someone is not into can be an element, that's why it is good to tailor dates to the person. That being said If she is apprehensive it most likely has less to do with the bar and more to do with how the interaction is being lead. Like I say, you can totally land this date. The key though is doing the best we can to avoid these binds in the first place. What builds comfort with women is being able to see that you can lead an interaction in a steady way that is calibrated to her. This is built in person. While it might seem counterintuitive, having a lot of nice friendly talk via text only does one of two things.
-Disqualifies you as a lover
-Or straight up chases her away if she feels like the guy is projecting too much onto her. As that can come with a lot of expectations

She's a musician and we talked about jazz music and about jazz bar when we met and she said she'd love to go there. So, I took that route and probably I shouldn't have. These are the texts after that:

Her: ooooo.. omg - which jazz clubs are you taking me to?
Me: it has kickass vibes.. gotta see it to believe it.. doesn't someone like surprises?
Her: hahaha...is it an inconceivable bar?
Her: I wantttt to knowww
Me: Woah! I already gave away a lot of info... Are you an FBI agent?
Her: lollllllll

I haven't seen or answered her last text. Not sure where to go from here

 

[StrayDog]

She's a musician and we talked about jazz music and about jazz bar when we met and she said she'd love to go there. So, I took that route and probably I shouldn't have. These are the texts after that:

Her: ooooo.. omg - which jazz clubs are you taking me to?
Me: it has kickass vibes.. gotta see it to believe it.. doesn't someone like surprises?
Her: hahaha...is it an inconceivable bar?
Her: I wantttt to knowww
Me: Woah! I already gave away a lot of info... Are you an FBI agent?
Her: lollllllll

I haven't seen or answered her last text. Not sure where to go from here

Well, I can at least observe that she is ahead of the interaction right now. She has put you in the position where you have to tell her what bar for the interaction to continue. This means she is setting the pace. Also, just straight up telling her doesn't guarantee that she has bought into the date. What happens after you tell her is to be determined. You have done a decent job turning it around and creating some intrigue but you run the risk of things falling flat once this moment is resolved. Instead of moving steadily towards a solid date you have fallen into a little game that is only slightly related to the two to you meeting up. I can't say what move to make but maybe this is a good moment to step back be like "Don't worry I fill you in on all the deets. I gotta catch some zzzs though. We'll touch base soon" and then text her in a day or two like "Hey Kendra, jam packed couple days. Bars called Haven, it's downtown. Been around for ages. I was thinking Friday around 5 or 6. Whats your scene" just my two cents

 

[Calibration]

Well, I can at least observe that she is ahead of the interaction right now. She has put you in the position where you have to tell her what bar for the interaction to continue. This means she is setting the pace. Also, just straight up telling her doesn't guarantee that she has bought into the date. What happens after you tell her is to be determined. You have done a decent job on creating some intrigue but you run the risk of things falling flat once this moment is resolved. Instead of moving steadily towards a solid date you have fallen into a little game that is only slightly related to the two to you meeting up. I can't say what move to make but maybe this is a good moment to step back and text her in a day or two like "Hey Kendra, jam packed couple days. Bars called Haven, it's downtown. Been around for ages. I was thinking Friday around 5 or 6" just my two cents

lol.. I think I fell into the ditch I myself dug up and don't know how to get out of it..

Your idea seems ok but if I don't reach out to her for 1-2 days, her buying temperature may go down or she might auto-reject. Now I have another problem.. Holy shit!!
I called around the bars that were having live jazz events in the past and all of them have suspended them until things get better with covid situation.. so, I'm planning to send this text:

Me: I have a plan.. let's meet and grab a juice/bubble tea and if I'm convinced you're not an FBI agent, I'll take you to the Jazz bar.. Does Wednesday or Thursday evening work for you?

This way,
1. Once I get her out, I can make up some bullshit excuse and divert her attention - but it may still be hard since she'd have come out for that and would be disappointed
2. If she's apprehensive about meeting me at a bar, it'll relax her
3. Since there are no jazz events happening and if I tell her that, she may not agree to meet
4. I'll pretend like that jazz bar is open and we go there and find out that it's closed and so I can bounce her home. That way, I'd have bounced her to 2 locations

What do you think?

 

[StrayDog]

Sometimes we just get in the weeds. Good reference points though regardless of outcome. And no matter what happens always good to build on what fundamental works in the first place.
Could be right about the buying temperature, it would definitely be a balance of timing. You do seem to air on the side of overly eager though and sometimes just the right amount of silence builds a good tension. Why not just tell her the bars aren't doing jazz and just brush it off? seems kind of elaborate to still work it into the mix.

Also, what would happen if you just gave her a call? That might help as well

 

[Calibration]

Sometimes we just get in the weeds. Good reference points though regardless of outcome. And no matter what happens always good to build on what fundamental works in the first place.

Texting is my biggest sticking point but I think I'm learning and it's super hard tbh

Could be right about the buying temperature, it would definitely be a balance of timing. You do seem to air on the side of overly eager though and sometimes just the right amount of silence builds a good tension.

You think so? I've lost more girls going silent than being eager. I used to only go after latinas in the past and they're very chatty cathys and I've lost a lot of them for not texting too much. But you're right, I need to find a balance. If you notice my texting in the screenshot and later texts, she replies me within an hour and I'm taking 2-4 hrs every time but if I go beyond this, I think I may risk pushing her away

Why not just tell her the bars aren't doing jazz and just brush it off? seems kind of elaborate to still work it into the mix.

I'm still not clear if she's into me or into jazz bar. If I at least meet her, I'll get to know that or I can try to turn around the situation but over text, my chances are slim

Also, what would happen if you just gave her a call? That might help as well

She's responding quickly. So, I'm not sure if a call is required. Also...lol.. did you see what happened yesterday? I posted this yesterday:

I should've taken this advice seriously. Holy shit!!! Today I called a girl who hadn't responded to my text in a week. She picked my call not knowing it was me and looks like her BF was around. I said "I felt like listening to your raspy voice and so called you" and very quickly she mentioned that her partner and she had went away on travel and so she didn't text me back. Damn!!! I actually felt sorry for busting her balls. I'm not going to call any girl anymore. Her voice tone was crying - "hangup the fucking call!!!" She tried asking my schedule but I said, just text me and we'll figure that out!! That was an awkward experience for both of us!!!

Btw, surprisingly she texted me today to thank me for calling her yesterday. So I'm also texting her.

 

[StrayDog]

You think so? I've lost more girls going silent than being eager. I used to only go after latinas in the past and they're very chatty cathys and I've lost a lot of them for not texting too much

Your intuition could be right, a lot of times though our assumptions about what we are going wrong are partially or totally inaccurate. I don't have the answers to what it is you are doing wrong but I would venture to say a large element of it is your framing. The way an interaction if framed from the get go accounts for a lot. By using frames that are conducive to the seduction we can trim a lot of fat off of things and make moves that otherwise wouldn't land. Our text game is definitely a reflection of everything that paved the way before it.

But you're right, I need to find a balance. If you notice my texting in the screenshot and later texts, she replies me within an hour and I'm taking 2-4 hrs every time but if I go beyond this, I think I may risk pushing her away

I got you. I guess I meant eager in tone not in text times. Perhaps a combination of being eager in tone then waiting a a while to text is somehow muddying your process. Sometimes waiting a long time can come across like you are trying, especially if she gets the sense you have already bought in. Or even the concern that the buying temperature is so low and you might push her away. The more hooked you can get her from the get go the more leeway you have on the timing of texts.

Also, a huge part of game is patience. Sometimes you can't get a women out right away. But you play your cards right, 6 months later and all of a sudden...

I'm still not clear if she's into me or into jazz bar. If I at least meet her, I'll get to know that or I can try to turn around the situation but over text, my chances are slim

If you are questioning weather she is more into you or the bar that is an indication that something about your initial interaction was off. It seems like maybe there is a lack of clarity in the way you lead the interaction.

She's responding quickly. So, I'm not sure if a call is required. Also...lol.. did you see what happened yesterday? I posted this yesterday:


Btw, surprisingly she texted me today to thank me for calling her yesterday. So I'm also texting her.

Calling women is a powerful tool when used at the right moment. It can also be great for working out for nuanced logistical elements (Like when jazz bars aren't playing jazz anymore). Great for re hooking women, building up intrigue, building momentum and so on. Worth getting more reference points on phone calls and learning to work it into your game.

 

[Calibration]

Your intuition could be right, a lot of times though our assumptions about what we are going wrong are partially or totally inaccurate.

Agree. I realised this only after what you wrote below:

I got you. I guess I meant eager in tone not in text times. Perhaps a combination of being eager in tone then waiting a a while to text is somehow muddying your process. Sometimes waiting a long time can come across like you are trying, especially if she gets the sense you have already bought in.

This was an excellent analysis above. I can now clearly see the mistakes that I did with this girl about "eagerness". I have a couple of questions though:
1. Doesn't hesitation/procrastination to ask her out come across as less confident? If she was already into me, doesn't going slow show that I'm not sure about something/myself?
2. Doesn't dragging it too long make her lose interest?

I may be wrong here. But I want a different perspective on this

Also, a huge part of game is patience.

True.. have learnt it the hard way.

If you are questioning weather she is more into you or the bar that is an indication that something about your initial interaction was off. It seems like maybe there is a lack of clarity in the way you lead the interaction.

No.. I'm very confident in in-person interactions and when I met this girl, I felt she was into me. It's only when I switch to text and when I see her reactions are not in-line with my assumptions, I start doubting myself. For ex, in the above case, I thought this girl was sold and when I asked her schedule she didn't get back to my question. That's when I don't get where I stand.

Calling women is a powerful tool when used at the right moment. It can also be great for working out for nuanced logistical elements (Like when jazz bars aren't playing jazz anymore). Great for re hooking women, building up intrigue, building momentum and so on. Worth getting more reference points on phone calls and learning to work it into your game.

Hmm.. I think depending on the girl, I think I can use phone calls

I must say, your analysis above actually helped me a lot.. Looking at most of my past interactions with many girls, this is where I was going wrong. I can't thank you enough.. it's a big turning point

I read this after I sent her that text and now when I see the subcommunication of that text, it's clearly "needy"

 

[StrayDog]

1. Doesn't hesitation/procrastination to ask her out come across as less confident? If she was already into me, doesn't going slow show that I'm not sure about something/myself?
2. Doesn't dragging it too long make her lose interest?

Pacing is different than hesitation or procrastination. While pacing can highlight your hesitation it is all about context and tone. If the tone is confident and your pacing is wise for a given context then it won't read like you are unsure of what to say. When the tone is right we can often have bursts of fast frequent texts without coming across as too eager. If a cluster of texts are left in a smart place, pregnant pauses are more accepted without having the woman cool down too much and lose interest. It is really all about context. The greater context is all of course determined by the over frames that have been laid.

when interacting with women it can be tricky to know when to be aloof and when to show interest. If you are doing both simultaneously it throws up red flags for her, and sends out strong player vibes. I think a good rule of thumb is show interest when a women is genuinely interesting and be aloof when she is failing to help move the interaction forward. And only show deep invested interest when it has truly been earned. It's really more of a natural thing than one might think

No.. I'm very confident in in-person interactions and when I met this girl, I felt she was into me. It's only when I switch to text and when I see her reactions are not in-line with my assumptions, I start doubting myself. For ex, in the above case, I thought this girl was sold and when I asked her schedule she didn't get back to my question. That's when I don't get where I stand.

It sounds you could have started the texts with a little more momentum right out the gate. You went straight into a more rapport building sort of scenario. While an element of that is good you stand to dilute the momentum, get off on weird tangents that are not progressive, or say something that just doesn't come across right. If you had a solid interaction in person you can probably stream line things a little bit more. If you look back up a few posts you can see how I might run the texts, as well as what a lot of these other guys on here are saying. You just got to trim the fat and come in with a little more gusto.

Also confidence in in person interactions absolutely counts for a lot. But setting the right frames is key and not necessarily related to how confident you were. You can be confident and still be slotted into the boyfriend category, the friend catagory, or even just entertaining guy I have no intention of really going anywhere with. I think it's fine to have your frames be somewhat ambiguous on initial opening but you definitely want to be laying some good ground work to develop those frames later on

read this after I sent her that text and now when I see the subcommunication of that text, it's clearly "needy"

From what I have read of your interaction it seems like she is still into you bro. Even if the frames aren't quite where you would like them to be at this point, it's not over till it's over.

 

[Calibration]

Pacing is different than hesitation or procrastination. While pacing can highlight your hesitation it is all about context and tone.

This. Reason I have problem with texting is exactly this. I do ok pacing when she is in front of me with her subcommunication. But with texting, how do I pace her reality? If we take the example of this girl:
1. She could be excited to meet me but she may be scared to meet a stranger
2. She could be excited to meet me and I'm unnecessarily moving slowly
3. She may be just playing along for fun and not interested to meet me at all
4. She may be on the fence due to a number of reasons that I don't know or I can't see from her texts

If all the above happened in-person, it's much easier to pick on them

I think a good rule of thumb is show interest when a women is genuinely interesting and be aloof when she is failing to help move the interaction forward.

If she is failing to help move the interaction forward, doesn't being aloof further slow it down?

And only show deep invested interest when it has truly been earned. It's really more of a natural thing than one might think

Hmm.. Ya

It sounds you could have started the texts with a little more momentum right out the gate. You went straight into a more rapport building sort of scenario. While an element of that is good you stand to dilute the momentum, get off on weird tangents that are not progressive, or say something that just doesn't come across right. If you had a solid interaction in person you can probably stream line things a little bit more. If you look back up a few posts you can see how I might run the texts, as well as what a lot of these other guys on here are saying. You just got to trim the fat and come in with a little more gusto.

I see what you're saying

From what I have read of your interaction it seems like she is still into you bro. Even if the frames aren't quite where you would like them to be at this point, it's not over till it's over.

This last text that I sent definitely is reeking of neediness. I won't be surprised if she doesn't get back to me. I totally realised it after you told me about my "eagerness tone" in your last message

https://imgur.com/a/EgPTn1R

I should've at least broken that message into 2 of them; logistical part in the next message. It sounds like I'm in a hurry in saying that

 

[StrayDog]

This. Reason I have problem with texting is exactly this. I do ok pacing when she is in front of me with her subcommunication. But with texting, how do I pace her reality? If we take the example of this girl:
1. She could be excited to meet me but she may be scared to meet a stranger
2. She could be excited to meet me and I'm unnecessarily moving slowly
3. She may be just playing along for fun and not interested to meet me at all
4. She may be on the fence due to a number of reasons that I don't know or I can't see from her texts

You really have no idea how she is truly feeling. If you go in sending texts that are trying to anticipate how you think she might be feeling then you run the risk of putting up unnecessary road blocks. In this instance it seems like you thought maybe she wasn't comfortable yet and came in from an angle of trying to build comfort. For all you know she was ready to jump your bones ASAP. Your job with text is not to pre-empt her feelings. It is to keep momentum headed in the right direction. If she throws up things that our counter to that momentum you diagnose and adjust accordingly. Since you often don't have direct information about why she is putting up road blocks you have to diagnose base on what information is presented to you. While you can sometimes outright ask "Seems like you have become hesitant?" that is often not the best strategy so you have to read the situation more basically. She is giving only two word response, how do you move momentum beyond this? Sometimes it means giving a little less sometimes a little more. Yes be clear on the subtext you are sending but don't get hung up trying to anticipate what she is feeling. Think, how to I smoothly move this forward, which believe it or not sometimes means backing off a bit in a smart way to get her to buy in more.

If she is failing to help move the interaction forward, doesn't being aloof further slow it down?

Not if it is done well. She needs to be an active participant in the process. You can't carry things forward all your own. If you keep pushing it will just turn to chasing. A solid ball in court text is the perfect example of how to implement this. (Which by the way, I used chases model on ball in court texts today and it worked like a charm. Had her be like "You're right sorry, I do need to sort somethings out. I really do want to connect I'll reach out soon, promise"

Hmm..

I see what you're saying

This last text that I sent definitely is reeking of neediness. I won't be surprised if she doesn't get back to me. I totally realised it after you told me about my "eagerness tone" in your last message

The changing of the date last minute is also a hard left turn and could come off as "This guy is all over the place" or worst "something's not adding up here, I'm getting alarm bells maybe this guy is dangerous." This is what I meant in an earlier post when I said comfort is built through how you demonstrate your leadership. Just like you can't really know exactly what she is truly feeling, she can't know exactly where you are coming from. When there is a lack of clarity in where the momentum is headed it leaves her to interpret the situation in a myriad of ways. You have to be clear about where everything is headed. When she gets off track you find smooth ways to keep it moving in the right direction, or you risk the interaction losing clarity

I like to see seduction as collaborative. Yes you have to do the initial work of compelling her to be on your team but once you got her you can do wonders. That's why I personally would have called her here, gabbed a bit in a flirty way and then used that energy to Collab on a solid date idea in light of new developments. When a women wants to connect, you are taking a solid lead and managing whatever she throws at you, she will join in to make it all happen.