I think I was too quick to respond to your previous message. Yesterday I went through your questions and post again and I think your assumption about framing is spot-on. I hadn't quite understood framing very well. So, I went through several posts from Chase relating to frame control yesterday. Also, I kept those things that you had mentioned about framing in mind and went out yesterday and tried to be aware of what I was doing and I discovered a lot of things about myself and the interaction. When I got back, I did a thorough analysis of why I do what I do and I was able to come up with reasons although I couldn't find answers. I went out today and tried implementing them and it was super hard. So, the reason I'm faltering at framing is:
1. I normally don't do street approaches since it's hard and it doesn't resonate with my personality. However, these days there are not many girls indoors So I'm trying street approaches. In steet approaches, I'll have to chase the girl literally in one way or the other and it already sets a wrong precedent like I'm chasing her and from there I can never get back the frame. How can I make her think that she's after me when I'm the one who literally went after her?
2. I mostly approach stationary girls and this is much better than stopping the girl or walking with the girl on streets. Yet, I'm the one who goes to talk to her and the vibe to begin with is again the same as me chasing her.
3. Cold-approach during normal times itself is very hard and when girls are wearing masks, it's hard to calibrate without completely seeing her facial expressions. Here in Australia, covid is still in a very bad state and everybody still wears masks. My biggest strength when approaching is my smile and it's my weapon to diffuse any tension. But with mask on, I'm at a disadvantage to show her that I'm safe. So, my approaches are not very strong and it's hard to set the right frame
Above are outer game related but there are a few inner game issues I'm having problem in setting the right frame:
4. This one is big. When I'm out approaching and get a series of rejections and finally when a girl hooks, I feel a sense of relief and I don't push too hard so as not to lose the girl. I feel like her talking to me is a win. She's doing me a favor compared to all the girls who rejected before her and I enter her frame
5. I'm on a dry spell and just having a girl open up to me makes me feel validated. I hesitate to lose this feeling of validation. I know it's not the right mindset but it's something that I'm doing sub-consciously
6. Like I mentioned earlier, having a strong frame has made me come across as rude and arrogant in the past with girls and also I lost some friends. I believe this is affecting my vibe as well
7. I've had some brutal rejections (I even posted one of that here) a couple of months ago and it kind of has affected my frame big time.
8. Since my texting is also another sticking point, I try to be extra careful and that in itself affects my frame
Despite all this, I sometimes manage to get back the frame, like the art gallery girl. I had a strong frame with her until I started texting
So, I'm now aware how my frame is bad and why I'm having problems setting the right frame but I don't know what to do about it.
Just some more ideas:
-Find a wingman/mentor. Someone who is equal to, or preferably better than you who can analyze your game real time. It's tricky to go at it alone.
This is such a wise thing that you said about someone "better" that I didn't know this and I'd say my frame got fucked up big time by hanging out with a wing who was new to this. I used to hangout with this guy for all of 2021 and most of 2020 and I got sucked into his frame big time, now I think about it. I've stopped hanging out with him in the past 2 months finally. I don't want to blame him completely cos it was also my mistake to get advice from him. He'd give me all the anti-game advice and I would buy that. I don't have any idea why I did that. I was always considered a natural since I discovered game only 3 years ago while I was getting laid through cold-approach long before I knew something like game or cold-approach existed. I was lacking a structure but I knew that what he's advising is totally wrong but since I was going through dry-spell, I just believed whatever he used to say so that at least I'll try something different. There are many things but just off the top of my head: not to tease girls cos it'll come across as try hard, should be friends with girls and take it slow, game is all red-pill and that's bad etc etc. I can go on for hours about his advices. He is the first person I saw so closely putting pussy on a pedestal. He is so sure of himself that whenever I tried to tell him that's not the right way to treat chics, he'd get so defensive that it'd make me wonder if what I'm preaching is even right. He had read pickup material for 4 years. So, I thought he at least has enough knowledge theoritically. Anyway, like I said earlier, it was just my mistake to get into his frame thinking he's "better" and I do much better solo.
-Keep a journal of your approaches and really break them down (like: this is the moment the energy changed, what are 5 things that it could have been?)
Yes, I've done it in the past, I should do it more regularly now
-Screen harder for dtf women, or women who are free at the moment for instant dates. I have had pretty solid success at tap rooms in the evening. It is more lowkey so you can run day game style approaches like you would at coffee shop, but the women are generally more available and open (both in schedule and otherwise)
It's really hard to find girls just to even approach atm as I mentioned above
-Never be too certain that your fundamentals are exactly where you need them. One time I straight up asked a women "We seemed to have awesome energy, what changed?" and she told me I smelled too strongly of BO. I asked a few close friends and they told be that I did not have that on lock. I thought I did. I could have sworn I did. But I didn't and quickly became aware of where I was slacking in the hygiene department. I thought back on all the times I just couldn't put my finger on why the vibe shifted. Was it just because I stunk? Fixing that changed so much about my mindset and my approaches and there was a discernable improvement in my game
Girl is a big mirror of one's fundamentals. In the past when I've got lazy and went out with bad dressing, that's when mostly I got brutal rejections. But ya I'm trying my best but I don't know what else can I do
-I know you said day game suits your energy level more, but sometimes changing arenas just for a bit can I prove game in our preferred arena ten fold. There was the longest time when I just wouldn't fuck with night game. I felt out of my element. I decided to take a leap and try to crack that egg just for one month. At this point I can't even say with arena I prefer.
Like I mentioned earlier, there's no night game scene at least for sometime now but when we get back, I'll probably have to try
-This might be a tough pill to swallow but maybe lower your standards for a moment. I don't know what kind of women you are approaching, but maybe connecting with some gals who are super cool but not all the way up in the looks department could you help get back in the swing. Going all the way through the seduction process. Yes looks add a different element to it all, but ultimately women are women. Still takes game to sync up with a 6
Hmm.. I'd take this advice with a grain of salt honestly. Most of the brutal rejections I've had were all from below average looking girls, ironically. I won't say, hot girls won't reject but there's something about below average girls that doesn't sit well with me when they reject. I've tried this too but what I've noticed as you said is, girls are girls. It doesn't matter how she looks, she'll accept or reject you based on many different reasons
-It sounds like you are also developing other aspects of your life already, but taking off days to just hang with homies and all that is key.
Ya bro. This is big. I really need to do this more. I used to hangout most of the time with the wing that I mentioned above but after I've stopped hanging out with him, I really don't have an active social life. I'm all the time out cold-approaching or working
-Move to a city with a more desirable sexual market place (if this applies)
This is hard rn. I was thinking of doing it but I have many things that I'm comfortable with where I'm living now and in fact those are the things that help me with having time day gaming. So, although there's not enough volume where I live, I'm on fence with this
Also, I think you might be psyching yourself out a bit here as well. It makes sense, especially when there has been a string of rejections. It can be easy to falter in the home stretch. When you start to feel your legs tremble, so to speak, take it as a sign to quickly get your head in the game and trust you know where you are going. You have done this before, you can do it again.
If you're saying not to stop what I'm doing, I agree but these days I'm feeling very depressed and I'm just physically pushing myself to go out. I've lost the enthusiasm after grinding for this long
The comfort vs tension aspect of game is a tricky balance for sure. Building tension at the wrong times and in the wrong ways kills attraction just as much as building comfort at the wrong time and in the wrong ways. Maybe there is something to be examined there. How and when are you applying these elements? Teasing at an inopportune moment, like when tension is already too high, is just as bad as being comforting when there is no energy
This is true. I don't know what I can do about that either
wish I could give you more concrete things. But again it's tricky to do so not seeing you game real time. And besides, I have my own sticking points as well
Oh btw, I truly appreciate your help bro. It means a lot to me. You're taking time to analyse and write detailed suggestions/answers, I can't be more thankful