@Mali your mental model is way too simplified. You impose your own ideals on your perspective of women, which is the definition of madonna complex. This paragraph in particular is nothing more than wishful thinking:
Why do you say she would she not consider Doug? Because of your own dislike of Doug, not because of your accurate understanding of how a woman thinks. In reality many times women try very hard with Doug, and invest a lot in him, and sometimes they fail and sometimes they succeed.
Women love nothing more than a good 'fix 'im up' story. They love to take the wild, unharnessed man full of potential, and nurse him into a powerful, dominant, and skilled operator who is loyal to her. And it's a very effective strategy - in principle.
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The main problem, in my opinion, with the 'sexual marketplace' (as the red pillers like to call it) is that the foundations of effective mating strategy on both sides have been destroyed. Men are no longer capable of developing the balance of their inner beast and their inner father figure - that is, the concept associated with the desire to lead, to take care of and build things, to take responsibility for and defend things. And women are no longer capable of conceptualizing or properly enacting the path toward taming a man into something useful, because they lack any real concept of the balanced man and the process by which he is crafted from a boy. They tend to be either afraid of men or allow them to run roughshod over her, chaotically and impulsively trying to conjure into existence something they don't really understand.
This is because social conditioning has screwed everything up. Men nowadays are either puppy dogs, sheep or rampant wolves with no self control. This is because social conditioning has mercilessly attacked the concept of the wolf (the intermediary stage of the balanced man), such that the puppy dog has no chance to develop his wolf side before being railroaded into the herd as a sheep, or else escapes the herd entirely and lives a fringe, rebellious lifestyle evading the farmer and his gun, never developing any sense of loyalty and responsibility toward something greater than himself.
And because the wolf is vilified and hunted, females seldom come across this rare creature, and even though she longs to meet one and have him for herself (such is her biology), when she does so she reacts with either confusion and anxiety, or tries to mimic the farmer and whip him until he turns into a sheep, which, even when it works, does not satisfy her. She cannot conceptualize what lies in between the wolf and the sheep because society shows her no examples, and gives her no strategy to get there.
Luckily, she does have her biology (the true nature of which is again mercilessly attacked by social conditioning, because society wants to eradicate the wolf that plays a huge part in it), which gives her a certain amount of courage to try her hand with the wolf, and gives her certain instincts to be more effective, but since the wolf did not develop with any proper guidance, and has learned to fear and hate the farmer and his herd of which she is a part, the ingredients for him to become anything useful to her are severely lacking.
But even and so, the wolf is always the rarest and most valuable creature, because he alone has real potential. If he is lucky enough to find a guide who can turn him into a wise, calm, strategic, and forward-thinking pack leader without destroying him in the process, he is like refined gold and extremely rare, and any woman wants to get her hands on him. She will try again and again with wolves, often ruining herself and her future in the process, to make her dream - the dream that has been printed on her DNA - come true, but she can only do her part, and the part of the guide, which she cannot do (one cannot be the submissive, nurturing follower and the anvil that shapes the metal at the same time) is never done, and this results in chaos and failure of the whole project.
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What is missing from your model is the fact that a successful sheep is still a sheep, at least a wolf can give a woman the chance to dream. That is why Doug (besides being a lot rarer than you think) is always in the picture, that is why the only real Joe is a Joe that used to be a Doug, and that is why she is always trying to turn a Doug into her very own Joe. And if a Doug can be turned into Joe without becoming a sheep, he stands a great chance of getting and keeping her investment, because he is an exceptionally rare and valuable catch, and especially if she played a part in his development.
The problem with your situation my friend (and I don't mean this as an insult, we are all trying to get where we want to be in life) is that you seem to be something of a successful sheep, and you cannot understand why high quality women are not terribly interested. In order to feel better about yourself, you have idealized your concept of a 'high quality woman' as one which immediately rejects a wolf, but in fact the only woman who immediately rejects a wolf is one which relies entirely on her place in the herd for her security and sense of value, which is not the case for pretty, ambitious and determined women. They, like the wolf, believe they can have anything they want, and what they want is to take a wolf and nurture him and make him loyal, there is no greater sense of achievement for any woman than that.
Part of the project of this site and Girls Chase in general, as I understand it, is to help men develop their inner wolf so that they represent high-value potential for women especially (and for life in general). That is why when guys here sense your narrow perspective, the only thing they can really say is 'become a wolf, then come back and we'll talk about it'. I suggest you do just that instead of being a sheep arguing with a pack of wolves about why he can't get what he wants.
Will_V: Why do you say she would she not consider Doug?
^ She would be stupid, risking too much. I know I'm repeating myself but think about it, if she is looking for LTR and she meets two guys:
1. Doug who is sexy, cool, laid back, has good options .... but he won't stay around.
2. Joe who is sexy, cool, laid back, has good options .... but he is planning to stay around.
Barbie can't even "keep" Doug around because by definition he will leave sooner or later. Doug is not going to orbit around her, he will try once or twice to bed her and he is gone. Why would she risk losing her reputation and Joe? She will hide Doug, keep him away, she will make sure Joe doesn't see or hear about her being with Doug. Simplest way is just dump Doug and fully focus on Joe. Barbie likely has many other orbiters around, just in case. Or she can walk to any bar, smile twice and get sex with every single guy she looks at there. So Doug doesn't really have that much value as he'd like to believe.
Will_V: Women love nothing more than a good 'fix 'im up' story. They love to take the wild, unharnessed man full of potential, and nurse him into a powerful, dominant, and skilled operator who is loyal to her. And it's a very effective strategy - in principle.
^ Yes, but that rather sounds like a provider (guy interested in LTR), a guy who is willing to stay and have her fix him into somebody 'better'. She knows that lover won't stick around, so why bother? I'm only assuming she is not a dummy.
Will_V: Men are no longer capable of developing the balance of their inner beast and their inner father figure - that is, the concept associated with the desire to lead, to take care of and build things, to take responsibility for and defend things.
^ Agree. Men are acting more feminine and women more masculine, as a result nobody is happy. I personally believe that women want men who have solid masculine frame, who lead the relationship forward. A guy who make a space with his masculinity so she can relax around him and be feminine.
-I call this guy 'high end provider', only because lover is not interested in relationship. Otherwise both can have the same qualities
-Lover only creates sex frame. High end provider creates sex frame plus relationship frame.
-'Low end provider' creates poor sex frame and poor relationship frame. Sex with him sucks and relationship is boring.
Will_V: Men nowadays are either puppy dogs, sheep or rampant wolves with no self control.
^ My words. Guys like that can be called 'low end providers'
Will_V: And because the wolf is vilified and hunted, females seldom come across this rare creature.
^ I agree, nicely described. I'm only adding, this wolf doesn't have to run away from relationships either. He can remain wolf. Imagine she gets this rare creature into LTR. She will love him, she do everything for him. She will dare to sleep around with Dougs because they lose value to her, they are too much of a risk. There are many wolfs just like that are in good relationships. Just try to seduce married woman who is happy with her wolf, you will have no chance no matter what you try.
Will_V: What is missing from your model is the fact that a successful sheep is still a sheep, at least a wolf can give a woman the chance to dream.
^ Successful sheep is just a 'low end provider': boring and immature guy, some sex, average job, frustration, not so many options with women.
Successful wolf is (or can be) 'high end provider'. Guy who has options, who takes care of himself, leads healthy lifestyle, invests into his future etc. Guy who knows what he wants, who hunts around and brings trophies home to share with her. If woman is looking for family and solid relationship, she wants guy like that, as long as he proves that he stays around so she can safely raise her kids. See her dilema when she meets guy just like that (lover), but he wants to run away? He may provide great and exciting sex, but he is not that great of overall value to her because sex is only one part of successful LTR.
Will_V: The problem with your situation my friend (and I don't mean this as an insult, we are all trying to get where we want to be in life) is that you seem to be something of a successful sheep, and you cannot understand why high quality women are not terribly interested.
^ Remember, wolf doesn't only hunt little rabbits. Wolf hunts for other pray, many times large ones. For top education and jobs, for good income, for great life. These may seem boring and sheeply from outside, but unless you accomplish anything yourself you just have no idea. It does take a lot of energy, ambitions, planning, dedication and many years to achieve anything in this highly competitive world. So I disagree here with you, I am a top wolf. Just not in bars or on the street.
Also, remember I'm talking about work environment, so there are little bit different rules. Lover frame doesn't apply that well which makes perfect sense, the 'high quality woman' who is very careful about her reputation can pay very high price should attractive wolf change into an ape! Rejection of lover's frame can be expected, it is pretty much given. Presenting lovers frame to a woman at work is actually a good way to test her slutiness. If she accepts, she is likely easy going. If not, well, you might have a good one.
Great readings!
