Is game harder than it was 10 years ago?

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Great post man. And good news for me haa... because I am "genuinely novel" as you say. Just gotta get deep enough into the sets to convey that.

I've noticed a pattern in the responses... all the guys with a lot of experience, success and rep say things are still great if you work it right.

Many of the guys with low rep say it's horrible everything is worse and pickup isn't even real, just a numbers game.

Interesting pattern. I think I know which group I'll choose!

 

[Teevster]

@Teevster: I was hoping you’d chime in here. You probably have the most useful data since you’re so active and successful (plandemic rules permitting). Wow you’ve done 3 for 3… that’s impressive. So is your average of 1 in 3. The stats I quoted from Mystery and CJ aren’t their averages, they were streaks.

A little precision here: my 1/3 ratio is my avg ratio when I am on high momentum. On low momentum it is far from it. Hence my OVERALL average is probably around 1/5... at least it used to be (during my prime in 2017-2019: before the pandemic basically) ... maybe now with the rust, probably 1/7... but I am sure I will get back to 1/5. Hard to provide a clear picture during "covid".

I think CJ’s average was 1 in 5 but he said that in the 2000s and he got even better later. I know he believes 1 in 2 as a consistent average to be very possible. His best month he did 16 cold approach lays… I give up even competing with that guy lol.

Well.. I did some marathon backs in the days and I am not far from his records. But these days I simply do not have the drive to go 100% (do marathons and fuck girls non-stop). 1-2 girls a week is enough for me. I also really struggle to pull 2 days in a row due to lack of motivation (tired, no sex drive, no motivation...)

Regarding CJ and chur: CJ retired from game a few years ago, married a really pretty girl half his age. They seem super happy together. I doubt chur would come back either, he seems to have reached a skill level where he doesn’t really feel the need to talk about game much anymore. He seems to be in total abundance with women naturally at this point.

Happy to hear they are both doing fine. Regarding chur: one can still discuss pu and want to learn more, discover more, experiment, innovate even if one has abundance. I have abundance... yet I am still discussing pick up I could have left the community probably 7 years ago and just "enjoy the skills". But you either love the game for itself, or you use the game as a mean to an end.

I’m surprised to hear you say that girls have weaker frames now. I would have thought all the attention they get online would have inflated their egos and made them more confident. And that this confidence would spill over into their real life interactions. Not the case, huh? That’s very interesting.

May seem contradicting, but it is not.
- Online interactions is not the same as IRL interactions. Hence women do not get in person, in real time, in real life social skills-training.
- They are used to the validation, and assume everybody loves her, and will do anything she asks.... until she meets a real man in real life (who would never simp her online).... and suddenly her whole system shuts down. She doesn't know how to deal with the situation, her brain cells are frying and she is clueless about what to say or do, because she lacks reference points.
- Men in general have shittier game, weaker frame and crappy social skills. Why would a girl need a strong frame to deal with guys like this (the vast majority of men have gotten worse in the past)
- And think about it, if all you practice your frame with have weak frames, you frame won't get stronger. It is like working out - if you only lift 3 kg and do 30 reps a day you want grow strong. Still did many reps... but it wasn't "heavy".

I also agree with @Warped Mindless 's points.

Best,
Teevs

 

[Teevster]

As pointed out before, PUA isn't novel anymore. So that means the quantity of PUA's has gone up....

Were you around in 2009?

 

[Hue]

Great post man. And good news for me haa... because I am "genuinely novel" as you say. Just gotta get deep enough into the sets to convey that.

I've noticed a pattern in the responses... all the guys with a lot of experience, success and rep say things are still great if you work it right.

Many of the guys with low rep say it's horrible everything is worse and pickup isn't even real, just a numbers game.

Interesting pattern. I think I know which group I'll choose!

Yeah I mean, as @Teevster kinda pointed out, I'm relatively new to pick up.

In any situation, 2021 was my best year so far (my medium-sized city has gone fairly easy on quarantining compared to bigger cities).... I've got no reason to believe that hard work, experimentation, and planting yourself somewhere conducive to growth wouldn't get a person where they need to be.

Hue

 

[Teevster]

Yeah I mean, as @Teevster kinda pointed out, I'm relatively new to pick up.

That was not what I tried to convey here. Point was that the popularity in pick up peaked in 2009. There were more men into pu in 2009 than today... FAR MORE.

That's the point i tried to convey.

Best,
Teevster

 

[Hue]

That was not what I tried to convey here. Point was that the popularity in pick up peaked in 2009. There were more men into pu in 2009 than today... FAR MORE.

That's the point i tried to convey.

Best,
Teevster

Gotcha. "Into pu" meaning actively participating, right?

I'll be out and about and I'll hear guys drop a phrase like "approach anxiety" or "I opened her with.."... but those guys aren't very good at what they do.

So - I'd assume some of the mainstream stuff has leaked into the culture in one way or another. Or more guys read principles about pickup and escaping the matrix, yet never put it into practice... it's diluted - I think the amount of guys actively participating, grinding, and learning have gone down significantly. Hope that clarifies any confusion with my reply.

 

[Alpha13SC]

In an era of feminism, comfort, where more and more boys who should become men are getting into these illusion creates by women's drama and misinterpreting their actual desires(consent, safety, etc) you can t but win versus the bad competition.

I was watching some scenes from Fury(2014) and too few men can pull some toughness like that.

These days I get called insensitive a lot, and I still work with my emotions. Makes me think how dafuq are other guys.

Regarding online dating, it can be a tool, since you can still go out with the girl and play with her mind.

Even if I know you just from your writing, I hope you ll get healthier and pull girls like never before.

Alpha13SC

 

[Rain]

Fear is one of my biggest issues right now, momentum will cure it but AA is pretty intense. I do a mental drill before the approach where I embrace the fear of death (because that is what approach anxiety really is, deep down)… then I go in.

What is the mental drill that you do?

 

[pancakemouse]

<photoshopped meme>

Not real: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/im-literally-the-guy-in-the-pic

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

A little precision here: my 1/3 ratio is my avg ratio when I am on high momentum. On low momentum it is far from it. Hence my OVERALL average is probably around 1/5.

Interesting. Same as CJ's when he gave actual numbers, I'm pretty sure that was either in 2009 or 2011. He said he got better later, but not sure what his average was in the end. In any case it sounds like 1 in 5 is a great average to shoot for as a real and realistic but very high-level goal.

Btw what would you say for direct street stops on walking sets in daygame? I feel like 1 in 20 to 1 in 30 isn't too bad in that case. Depending a bit on the environment (weather, lighting, mood, rushed spots vs. more slow paced ones, etc.)

Well.. I did some marathon backs in the days and I am not far from his records. But these days I simply do not have the drive to go 100% (do marathons and fuck girls non-stop). 1-2 girls a week is enough for me. I also really struggle to pull 2 days in a row due to lack of motivation (tired, no sex drive, no motivation...)

Same. I don't even really wanna have sex more than twice a week. I don't think I've ever banged more than 11 girls in 1 month... may have done a few more than that in Thailand once or twice but that doesn't count.

Regarding chur: one can still discuss pu and want to learn more, discover more, experiment, innovate even if one has abundance. I have abundance... yet I am still discussing pick up I could have left the community probably 7 years ago and just "enjoy the skills". But you either love the game for itself, or you use the game as a mean to an end.

Yes, I agree. I love the game for the game also. And always looking for that extra edge. I was actually really bored with it all when I quit in 2012 but lately I've been really excited about it again.

- Online interactions is not the same as IRL interactions. Hence women do not get in person, in real time, in real life social skills-training.
- They are used to the validation, and assume everybody loves her, and will do anything she asks.... until she meets a real man in real life (who would never simp her online).... and suddenly her whole system shuts down. She doesn't know how to deal with the situation, her brain cells are frying and she is clueless about what to say or do, because she lacks reference points.
- Men in general have shittier game, weaker frame and crappy social skills. Why would a girl need a strong frame to deal with guys like this (the vast majority of men have gotten worse in the past)
- And think about it, if all you practice your frame with have weak frames, you frame won't get stronger. It is like working out - if you only lift 3 kg and do 30 reps a day you want grow strong. Still did many reps... but it wasn't "heavy".

Mindblowing. And really good news.

-Karea.

 

[trashKENNUT]

- They are used to the validation, and assume everybody loves her, and will do anything she asks.... until she meets a real man in real life (who would never simp her online).... and suddenly her whole system shuts down. She doesn't know how to deal with the situation, her brain cells are frying and she is clueless about what to say or do, because she lacks reference points

My brother is getting engaged soon and i don't talk about Girlschase to him. Belief systems are far too different.

So..... I was in a family visit to the girlfriend family and all i see is ambiguity, slowly VALUE-ASS-essing starts and then the main goal, objective (who has the ultimate power).

TLDR: If there is anything more that i ask from Girlschase members, Empathy might be closest word to it. As Teev mentioned, the whole system breaksdown. From physical to mental.

And i wish this was only just one place!

Because when you mix religion, culture and asia, while the father of the family starts poking you instead, the elder brother doesn't look at you on the eye, the elder sister eases the tension, the middle brother looks at you as the beacon of 'out'. Ultimately, you can feel that there is a need for someone on the steering wheel.

So yea... You kinda see that it is really bad and the media and covid really don't help.

It is hard for me to say to members here to take care of other people because at the end of the day, people are selfish. I am just saying that if you can, try to.

z@c+

 

[killerman]

Couple of points I’d like to make as someone who’s been doing daygame since 2006.

Note that all of this is coming from the prospective of an American who has approached and bedded women in almost all major cities (former dating coach and now I travel a lot on business).

1: What you are calling direct game does seem to be a little less effective. That said, I believe that Europe has way more guys actually out approaching women than here in the states (Outside of a few cities).

2: Things might be different in Europe but 1 in 30 isn’t that great for over here in the states. 1 in 100 is ridiculous anywhere and everywhere and I’m not sure why so many people seem to think it’s good.

3: While certain aspects are a bit harder, overall, seduction is even easier in 2022 because women are CRAVING real men. The hard part for some “puas” is that they must evolve. Many community guys simple have very low emotional intelligence and just can’t keep current. For example: I used to be one of the guys that preached “text less and mostly only use it for logistics.” Now being able to text and seduce her mind over texting is highly important and really helps with the flaking issue but it must be done right. I’ll make a post on this.

4: There are some average looking dudes out there killing it on Tinder; I am not one of them. I hate online shit. They are dressing very stylish and getting professional pics taken of them doing cool things. They then look up metrics of the best times to message, the best days, the best length of the message, etc. Some of these dudes are getting 40+ lays a year from a combo on Tinder, Bumble, and other swipe apps. The ones that have been doing it for a long while says it’s not ”harder” just takes more upfront effort getting the professional pics and such.

I agree with your overall assessment and am really glad you are back!

what do you mean by 1 in 30? 1 lay for every 30 women you approach or 1 phone number for every 30 women you approach?

 

[hey_lover]

Forget 10 years ago, Covid has dramatically changed the landscape and some forms of game have become less viable than in the past. I've had two long stints in day game, first was between 2015-2018 and the second was 2020-Current. Interestingly, my approach to hook and hook to number ratios have halved but the ratio of numbers to dates and dates to lay have doubled. My process is quality based, I don't take numbers unless I'm 100% sure the interaction went really well and if the girl responded positively to a future date. Furthermore, I don't ask girls out on a date unless she's responsive over text and has consistently replied over several days. Yet, I'm experiencing unprecedented levels of flaking where girls jump through both hoops and still flake. I've had three just this week! Girls had agreed to a date and then pulled the rug on the day. I got the occasional flake in the past but now it's most girls.

In order to combat this, my current thoughts are to address the Covid factor head-on. I've largely ignored the entire pandemic since it began and haven't ever brought it up as a topic of conversation with girls. However, like Cosy said when he wrote second gen verbals, rather than implying a position, it's better to verbalise it so it eliminates any doubt on her part.

As for other forms of game, hearing through the grapevines, they've become easier. If girls are defying guidance and going to high risk venues then that should makes them easier to seduce, even if the total number of girls going out has reduced. I went to Wales last month and although we were out of town, I pulled one in one night, and my friend who went the night before pulled 3 in 2 and had a booty call from a potential fourth he had number closed.

All in all, I've noticed that girls who are dismissive or anti Covid tend to make the best targets at this point.

 

[Teevster]

All in all, I've noticed that girls who are dismissive or anti Covid tend to make the best targets at this point.

This is part of the reason why night game is ideal (when the field is open without too much restrictions), since clubs automatically does this screening for you: girls who are most scared of covid won't head to a bar, and even less to a club.

Getting ONS' from clubs has not become harder. However, the more the covid cases goes up, the worse the ratio in the club gets and the harder it is to pull. However, when cases goes down or stay stable, it is an ideal time to hit the field at night.

Best,
Teevster

 

[trashKENNUT]

Deleted my rant.

Fucking hell. :/

 

[Warped Mindless]

I think flaking may be worse in Europe than over here in the states because a lot of women over here in the states, outside of major liberal hotspots such as California and NYC, don’t really care about Covid anymore. They decided they rather live their life.

Also, the whole “texting only for logistics” thing that many people (including myself) used to preach is now less effective. Use texting Only to build enough intrigue in her part to get her on FaceTime or another video chat app. This has drastically reduced the amount of women who flake on me.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Also, the whole “texting only for logistics” thing that many people (including myself) used to preach is now less effective. Use texting Only to build enough intrigue in her part to get her on FaceTime or another video chat app. This has drastically reduced the amount of women who flake on me.

Now being able to text and seduce her mind over texting is highly important and really helps with the flaking issue but it must be done right. I’ll make a post on this.

Hey WM have you had a chance to write that post yet and if so would you link me please?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Also, the whole “texting only for logistics” thing that many people (including myself) used to preach is now less effective. Use texting Only to build enough intrigue in her part to get her on FaceTime or another video chat app. This has drastically reduced the amount of women who flake on me.

You are right. That keyword here is "enough", not full on.

which is what guys do. Like walking on a minefield.

z@c+

 

[Warped Mindless]

Hey WM have you had a chance to write that post yet and if so would you link me please?

Sorry I haven’t!

I have quite a few post I’m supposed to write but haven’t been able to get to them.

But the general outline is:

Use curiosity bait over text to get her to respond -> tease her and bust her balls a little and just be fun for a few text-> aim to set up a FaceTime meet as soon as possible. Usually it works best to set up a FaceTime meet on Monday - Wednesday nights as she likely has nothing going on-> use FaceTime kinda like you would a simple coffee date. The goal is to build intrigue about you and to make her comfortable talking to and seeing you. Sometimes a few short video calls work better than one longer one-> use texting and or her Snapchat to get sexual after a good FaceTime call. Use pictures (not of your dick) and flirt hardcore. Get her horny (I’ll show examples in my texting guide) -> pitch or reaffirm the meet up at either your place or hers. The FaceTime calls often will allow you to short circuit the regular public place first date and skip to going right to your place or hers for “Netflix”

 

[Swati]

Wow, awesome discussion here. I'm going to reply a lot more detailed tomorrow, but I just had to take a second to reply to this AWESOME GEM of a post by pancakemouse:

I used to think the highest compliment a PUA could ever receive is "you knew her before right? Wow, that approach looked like you guys already knew each other." Now I realize the highest compliment a PUA could ever receive is: "these feats you and your friends are doing regularly and consistently are so far outside my reality that they might as well be actual magic: I do not believe it is real."

Reminds me of this youtube clip (ironically that guy's screen name is also mouse, just like yours):

By the way I agree that 1 in 30 aren't bad numbers for direct street game. But 1 in 100 is just spam. Those guys should get their skills up some other way before they burn a whole city.

I'm not knocking anyone's game who's doing direct street game and gets 1 in 30. That's not bad game. The whole point is, it's a low probability shot and largely a numbers game, not "pickup artistry". Artful pickup can be FAR more consistent.

For precisely that reason, other ways that massively increase the success ratio are preferred. ALL the best guys I know - off the top of my head Sinn, Mystery, CJ, Bacchus, Teevster, Vision, myself back in the day - all preferred them whenever possible (but were competent at both, as the situation required).

Welcome back