- Joined
- May 22, 2024
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This is basically what I did
Is it wrong that non-player men sometimes unknowingly marry high count women?
- Thread starter bgwh
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2024
- Messages
- 16
I'm loving this thread. I'm loving the first two posts but I read the entirety. I'm not a big forum guy but I should be. This is a good group full of smart people worthy of respect.
I like how will_g started off and challenged the red pill outlook or really more precisely exposed or "profiled" a lot of the psychology behind it. This hit for me. It was like an exposé on their situation that was a little bit relevant for me, a little warning and urgent notice.
I like how bgwh followed up. We live in an unfair world (and perhaps a civilization that has gone to a certain extreme and may soon regress towards the mean, but who knows), but I like his views on informed consent. They're good and just. They're ideals, but of course the men in question have a responsibility to take care of themselves and be wise or forever hold their peace (or not forever: they can get a divorce).
I always took alpha widow to mean less someone with higher standards for men having had some alphas, but more like someone with a wrenched heart, a woman pining not so much after a "type" but a particular individual who she's missing, who's lost some of the ability to attach to the next guy who might be really good. "And still I dream he'll come to me, and we will live the years together". I've seen woman like this. They need not have started out like materialist thrill seekers (and some who do, rebellious teenage girls, I've seen settle down and be happy) and the 'alpha' who widowed her need not even be that "alpha" or thrilling, or even a player. Even just a man who broke a heart and left a void, even a kind of nice and kind guy who just left, maybe under pressure or whatever. I've always viewed alpha widow more like she has a void, as opposed to insane standards but I could be wrong.
I like how we talked about using the term "manosphere" over "red-pill". In theory the red pill is about accepting truth and reality, but I have a shocker for people: This has been a hard truth to accept but sometimes reality is more favorable than unfavorable, and people reject it because they want to be "red pill" or "conservative", but isn't red pill about actually accepting reality, and doesn't this include anything that could be favorable, where being cynical is actually being blue pilled? Btw I'm not the biggest fan of those Matrix movies anymore. I feel like I've outgrown fantasy to try live in reality but my favorite character by far is the Merovingian. I agree virtually 100% with his outlook on causality and that the best we can is know why.. and I like his style. You say people can choose x,y or z. Can they?
. Is it not already baked into the cosmos? But that's another topic.
It seems in all these posts there is a tension here between two paths or two sentiments- the cold self interest and altruism. Heck it's the stuff of movies, like Casablanca (which too I think is highly overrated). It can be summed up as "care and serve" vs free yourself and live. Personally, I've gone back and forth with respect to the game and knowledge like this. I can't pick a lane. I'm a born centrist. I think you can win in any lane though. Many men win and marry and have kids never knowing any things about female nature as we talk about here. They get their understanding of female nature from their wives, or other guys at church talking, and yet they're perfectly happy and raising families. There's something to be said for being where you belong and being well adjusted and fit to your environment..
..but for me life tossed me around. Made me not fit perfectly anywhere. I'm no virgin but I mostly lose at dating, for different reasons. I can't pick a lane and prolly have some Aspie issues. Now that that's identified, I think I can understand and correct. At 42 I know more about myself. I'm a very very late late late bloomer. That's how I see myself , if I do bloom. I know I'm speaking to great and worldly men here, but in general I'm far more well rounded and life experienced than most ppl I meet on a day to day basis, and I finally know what to reject too. I like meat. It's healthy. I know my line of work. I know my strengths and weaknesses. That makes life easier, but dating is still a mess now, my last main holdout, stronghold.
We all I think both want to make the world a better place AND not be victims, but get our necessary pleasures, some more than others. I think that old cliche applies: "please secure your mask before assisting others", and lead by example, whether than means being a player or being married with kids. I think the ego temptation is great to try to serve and save the world without serving yourself first. Look at everyone in power who's making a difference today: Trump, Musk, Vivek. They didn't try save the world. They got that call much later after having much personal wealth and pleasure, and they're having 1 million times more impact than I ever will! Yes, things tug at the heart. Sometimes you can't let them do that. If you can just tune out, then you don't have to fight it or burn willpower. Sometimes it's more than a heart tug. It can be pain and heartache that makes you want to sympathize, or rationalize serving, not in a bitter blue pill way but a kind eyed Christian way, like you can feel good about giving and being above needing- until you're not.
It's nice if every man who wanted it had the power to be a player but truth is that wouldn't be best for them or society, but it also wouldn't even be everyone's first choice. I think there's a lot of meaning in family and is by far my biggest regret. I get horny, and have always wanted choice and dominance. Who doesn't? What i want is 1000 girls. What i think is best is 1 great woman in her 20s and 10 kids with her. Best for me, not (just) society
I'm probably off topic.. but I've shared some of my story because I am that guy, that guy who saw these paths and felt these struggles and burned decades. My 20s and thirties were waaay too empty. I travelled a lot, and then boom: monk mode, but the pain and maybe the aspie autism, and lack of clear momentum kept me from truly getting ahead at dating and settled down. I always assumed more work, getting a career, all that would fix things up and something would give. Actually I have had a lot of opportunities come my way by doing very little but I never managed to close, not LTR close.
There's much I resent about the current state of society but I think resentment and bitterness are common now. Actually where I grew up i think it wasn't as common as now. I do think things just worked better in the past and work better in other places, other countries, smaller cities, smaller sub communities, and I also think resentment spreads from one group to another - from woman to men, minorities to general public, etc.
The manosphere is toxic but not, or not just, for reasons the public always harps on about. More for the reasons you guys have described. The public just brings out the standard tropes, misogyny, PC crap that's boring to hear. Not that there's not truth in it but it's tweedle dumb tweedle dee at best. I respect the criticisms here a lot though. I actually hardly ever hear it, at least so well put. Some have tried, saying it will harm young men and their mindset, but they have failed to articulate it half as good as was articulated here.
People are bitter and resentful. It is to be expected. I like the story of the guy fighting his demons and winning. Truth is not everyone will win, and bitterness and resentment can be understandable and justifyable. Actually before the term red pill was coined, people used to say and still say "bitter pill (to swallow)". Remember sometimes the truth is sweet or favorable and if you're trying to be most truthful and see most of reality, you HAVE TO accept the good with the bad.
The manosphere is entertaining but beware. Don't gaze too deep in it. It is Maya. Illusion as chase has described. You've been warned.
---
Btw i actually had a lot of people hit on me or give me very strong signs last two years, in a church community, so I'm not a complete dunce. I just need community. I think it solves a lot of Aspie issues. I was looking for marriage, they were good women. What happened then, why am I back to square one? It's embarrassing but I focused on the wrong woman, put l my eggs in one basket. She was the best though, or had a deep and profound effect on my state of mind and energy. I'm alpha widowed lol
. I few other women would have been really good too and I regret missing them, ones who did show more interest too. I probably should have shot my shot but was being old fashion. I should clarify, virtually all of the dozen or more women had great character and good morals and manners, and a few I even found pretty attractive). I was also protecting my reputation which was a huge asset in such watched groups as ours, and in the distant past I have been thrown out of different groups.. for complete misunderstandings but ones which stung. I see now, that's probably Asperger's related- wow that explains a lot, because I never meant no harm and in some cases, I wasn't even hitting on a girl or interested but she thought I was. So focused on one, old fashioned and concerned about my reputation, as if I was man with golden gun, with one shot to take down. AND to be fair a lot of successes happened in that group like that, a lot of marriages before it ended. I've gone to older adult groups, more my age, but not only is there less young women (go figure) but also they are not as fun, open minded, intelligent, good people so even if I was barred from ever dating anyone on account of age differences, I would still strongly prefer the young adult groups even though I like the idea of older men groups.
But another reason was fear of committing to one woman on the edge of what I considered attractive enough to marry, committing everything I worked so hard to achieve, after I'll I'd been through holding out for the right partner. Maybe it was her looks, maybe it's that she was in her 30s. After all my struggle and work and holding out to just settle in the end with wasted years.. I didn't want to. This issue would have been solved by Christian polygamy (or even just more casual dating but in the church), but that's another topic. I've thought a lot about that though. In brief it could be win win, only the church and the men and community would be upset and scandalized. Many of the candidate ladies would really win big though I think. I'm sure a lot of them are virgins in their 30s, not only wanting kids but also to experience the pleasure of a man once in their life. I have a lot of compassion for them AND found a lot of them very attractive and good but if you have only one bullet, it's not going to be for them, but if you have many bullets, I would have been much more open and everybody could win and get some love and we can also fight the declining birth rate, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. I am easily suppressed too I think, and always want to be square with the world, but that too is another topic.
I like how will_g started off and challenged the red pill outlook or really more precisely exposed or "profiled" a lot of the psychology behind it. This hit for me. It was like an exposé on their situation that was a little bit relevant for me, a little warning and urgent notice.
I like how bgwh followed up. We live in an unfair world (and perhaps a civilization that has gone to a certain extreme and may soon regress towards the mean, but who knows), but I like his views on informed consent. They're good and just. They're ideals, but of course the men in question have a responsibility to take care of themselves and be wise or forever hold their peace (or not forever: they can get a divorce).
I always took alpha widow to mean less someone with higher standards for men having had some alphas, but more like someone with a wrenched heart, a woman pining not so much after a "type" but a particular individual who she's missing, who's lost some of the ability to attach to the next guy who might be really good. "And still I dream he'll come to me, and we will live the years together". I've seen woman like this. They need not have started out like materialist thrill seekers (and some who do, rebellious teenage girls, I've seen settle down and be happy) and the 'alpha' who widowed her need not even be that "alpha" or thrilling, or even a player. Even just a man who broke a heart and left a void, even a kind of nice and kind guy who just left, maybe under pressure or whatever. I've always viewed alpha widow more like she has a void, as opposed to insane standards but I could be wrong.
I like how we talked about using the term "manosphere" over "red-pill". In theory the red pill is about accepting truth and reality, but I have a shocker for people: This has been a hard truth to accept but sometimes reality is more favorable than unfavorable, and people reject it because they want to be "red pill" or "conservative", but isn't red pill about actually accepting reality, and doesn't this include anything that could be favorable, where being cynical is actually being blue pilled? Btw I'm not the biggest fan of those Matrix movies anymore. I feel like I've outgrown fantasy to try live in reality but my favorite character by far is the Merovingian. I agree virtually 100% with his outlook on causality and that the best we can is know why.. and I like his style. You say people can choose x,y or z. Can they?
. Is it not already baked into the cosmos? But that's another topic.It seems in all these posts there is a tension here between two paths or two sentiments- the cold self interest and altruism. Heck it's the stuff of movies, like Casablanca (which too I think is highly overrated). It can be summed up as "care and serve" vs free yourself and live. Personally, I've gone back and forth with respect to the game and knowledge like this. I can't pick a lane. I'm a born centrist. I think you can win in any lane though. Many men win and marry and have kids never knowing any things about female nature as we talk about here. They get their understanding of female nature from their wives, or other guys at church talking, and yet they're perfectly happy and raising families. There's something to be said for being where you belong and being well adjusted and fit to your environment..
..but for me life tossed me around. Made me not fit perfectly anywhere. I'm no virgin but I mostly lose at dating, for different reasons. I can't pick a lane and prolly have some Aspie issues. Now that that's identified, I think I can understand and correct. At 42 I know more about myself. I'm a very very late late late bloomer. That's how I see myself , if I do bloom. I know I'm speaking to great and worldly men here, but in general I'm far more well rounded and life experienced than most ppl I meet on a day to day basis, and I finally know what to reject too. I like meat. It's healthy. I know my line of work. I know my strengths and weaknesses. That makes life easier, but dating is still a mess now, my last main holdout, stronghold.
We all I think both want to make the world a better place AND not be victims, but get our necessary pleasures, some more than others. I think that old cliche applies: "please secure your mask before assisting others", and lead by example, whether than means being a player or being married with kids. I think the ego temptation is great to try to serve and save the world without serving yourself first. Look at everyone in power who's making a difference today: Trump, Musk, Vivek. They didn't try save the world. They got that call much later after having much personal wealth and pleasure, and they're having 1 million times more impact than I ever will! Yes, things tug at the heart. Sometimes you can't let them do that. If you can just tune out, then you don't have to fight it or burn willpower. Sometimes it's more than a heart tug. It can be pain and heartache that makes you want to sympathize, or rationalize serving, not in a bitter blue pill way but a kind eyed Christian way, like you can feel good about giving and being above needing- until you're not.
It's nice if every man who wanted it had the power to be a player but truth is that wouldn't be best for them or society, but it also wouldn't even be everyone's first choice. I think there's a lot of meaning in family and is by far my biggest regret. I get horny, and have always wanted choice and dominance. Who doesn't? What i want is 1000 girls. What i think is best is 1 great woman in her 20s and 10 kids with her. Best for me, not (just) society
I'm probably off topic.. but I've shared some of my story because I am that guy, that guy who saw these paths and felt these struggles and burned decades. My 20s and thirties were waaay too empty. I travelled a lot, and then boom: monk mode, but the pain and maybe the aspie autism, and lack of clear momentum kept me from truly getting ahead at dating and settled down. I always assumed more work, getting a career, all that would fix things up and something would give. Actually I have had a lot of opportunities come my way by doing very little but I never managed to close, not LTR close.
There's much I resent about the current state of society but I think resentment and bitterness are common now. Actually where I grew up i think it wasn't as common as now. I do think things just worked better in the past and work better in other places, other countries, smaller cities, smaller sub communities, and I also think resentment spreads from one group to another - from woman to men, minorities to general public, etc.
The manosphere is toxic but not, or not just, for reasons the public always harps on about. More for the reasons you guys have described. The public just brings out the standard tropes, misogyny, PC crap that's boring to hear. Not that there's not truth in it but it's tweedle dumb tweedle dee at best. I respect the criticisms here a lot though. I actually hardly ever hear it, at least so well put. Some have tried, saying it will harm young men and their mindset, but they have failed to articulate it half as good as was articulated here.
People are bitter and resentful. It is to be expected. I like the story of the guy fighting his demons and winning. Truth is not everyone will win, and bitterness and resentment can be understandable and justifyable. Actually before the term red pill was coined, people used to say and still say "bitter pill (to swallow)". Remember sometimes the truth is sweet or favorable and if you're trying to be most truthful and see most of reality, you HAVE TO accept the good with the bad.
The manosphere is entertaining but beware. Don't gaze too deep in it. It is Maya. Illusion as chase has described. You've been warned.
---
Btw i actually had a lot of people hit on me or give me very strong signs last two years, in a church community, so I'm not a complete dunce. I just need community. I think it solves a lot of Aspie issues. I was looking for marriage, they were good women. What happened then, why am I back to square one? It's embarrassing but I focused on the wrong woman, put l my eggs in one basket. She was the best though, or had a deep and profound effect on my state of mind and energy. I'm alpha widowed lol
. I few other women would have been really good too and I regret missing them, ones who did show more interest too. I probably should have shot my shot but was being old fashion. I should clarify, virtually all of the dozen or more women had great character and good morals and manners, and a few I even found pretty attractive). I was also protecting my reputation which was a huge asset in such watched groups as ours, and in the distant past I have been thrown out of different groups.. for complete misunderstandings but ones which stung. I see now, that's probably Asperger's related- wow that explains a lot, because I never meant no harm and in some cases, I wasn't even hitting on a girl or interested but she thought I was. So focused on one, old fashioned and concerned about my reputation, as if I was man with golden gun, with one shot to take down. AND to be fair a lot of successes happened in that group like that, a lot of marriages before it ended. I've gone to older adult groups, more my age, but not only is there less young women (go figure) but also they are not as fun, open minded, intelligent, good people so even if I was barred from ever dating anyone on account of age differences, I would still strongly prefer the young adult groups even though I like the idea of older men groups.But another reason was fear of committing to one woman on the edge of what I considered attractive enough to marry, committing everything I worked so hard to achieve, after I'll I'd been through holding out for the right partner. Maybe it was her looks, maybe it's that she was in her 30s. After all my struggle and work and holding out to just settle in the end with wasted years.. I didn't want to. This issue would have been solved by Christian polygamy (or even just more casual dating but in the church), but that's another topic. I've thought a lot about that though. In brief it could be win win, only the church and the men and community would be upset and scandalized. Many of the candidate ladies would really win big though I think. I'm sure a lot of them are virgins in their 30s, not only wanting kids but also to experience the pleasure of a man once in their life. I have a lot of compassion for them AND found a lot of them very attractive and good but if you have only one bullet, it's not going to be for them, but if you have many bullets, I would have been much more open and everybody could win and get some love and we can also fight the declining birth rate, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. I am easily suppressed too I think, and always want to be square with the world, but that too is another topic.
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