Is it wrong that non-player men sometimes unknowingly marry high count women?

[Chase]

@isildur1,

I know you want to provide examples and tactics to @AbWongX.

I commend you for trying to help him. Just don't want to see you exhaust yourself on a debate like this.

You are not going to sway him with these for now. He does not have field experience. At this point, everything is 100% hypothetical to him.

Until he is out in the field, his opinions will be shaped by sheer volume of material consumed than by anything else. He's been consuming heaps and heaps of looksmax and black pill stuff. That is going to be his reality until he gets real world feedback that contradicts it.

With a guy in this stage, arguments to change his mind end up being Plato's allegory of the cave. He is tied to the post staring at shadows and you are telling him there is this whole world out there with all these colors and shapes and so on and... it doesn't compute.

The best thing you can do is tell him, "Look, they're going to cut your ropes in 30 days [or however long it is]. Don't do anything rash until you're out of the ropes and can leave the cave and look around and see for yourself."

I would also say, just in general, trying to convince guys that pickup works who are not in the field is a losing battle.

(my whole thing with Wong here has just been "dude, don't go slicing and dicing up your body yet. Just get some field experience, try to keep an open mind as you get it, then make your decisions from there" -- I just hate to see people go potentially fuck themselves up for zero reason. It's tragedy fuel)

When you get guys telling you, "I'm not in the field and don't have field experience but I don't think this could work for me," you've just go to tell them "Go get in the field FIRST... then report back."

Real Empiricists Test

In the comments of Saturday’s article about signs you’re in the friend zone, uForia makes the following comment: “Ive been a long time reader of your articles, and I can’t help but be skeptical at times. Your posts often have a tone of disliking competition from other men, and what makes you...

www.girlschase.com

Newbie Assignment

Introduction If you're brand new to the idea of approaching getting better with women and dating as a skill set, not to worry - most people in most parts of the world don't think of it that way yet, either. The great news is, anything can be learned as a skill - be that thing painting, writing...

www.skilledseducer.com

Chase

 

[AbWongX]

Ironically she's a mid chick who dyed her hair blonde. I know looks are subjective, but calling her a nine is quite the stretch. You seem to have obsession with hair dye.

Well she is very good looking according to my personal evaluation, she's a nine. Regardless, I should focus on improving my fundamentals and talking to white women in real life and seeing what happens in the real world.

Haha exactly. Man this forum has some absolute saints.

I cannot believe Chase and so many others are still writing long posts in reply to this guy. That alone deserves some awards for social service.

I admire the patience of these guys. Especially considering the fact that, it does not seem to matter at all what anyone says. Talking to this guy is like talking to a brick wall. Frankly, I think we have a better chance of persuading the brick wall to change its mind than this guy.

Lets all be honest, even when you fully believe that Game works, Game is hard enough to learn. For someone like this who is pushing back this much despite what everyone is saying, this guy has almost a zero percent chance of undertaking this journey.

I think my chances are higher than zero percent. I'm going to focus on the four fundamentals and talk to white women in real life. I'll post a picture of me and a cute white girlfriend when I succeed. Until then, I should be refraining from further debate on this forum and focusing on my progress in real life.

I know you want to provide examples and tactics to @AbWongX.

I commend you for trying to help him. Just don't want to see you exhaust yourself on a debate like this.

You are not going to sway him with these for now. He does not have field experience. At this point, everything is 100% hypothetical to him.

Until he is out in the field, his opinions will be shaped by sheer volume of material consumed than by anything else. He's been consuming heaps and heaps of looksmax and black pill stuff. That is going to be his reality until he gets real world feedback that contradicts it.

With a guy in this stage, arguments to change his mind end up being Plato's allegory of the cave. He is tied to the post staring at shadows and you are telling him there is this whole world out there with all these colors and shapes and so on and... it doesn't compute.

The best thing you can do is tell him, "Look, they're going to cut your ropes in 30 days [or however long it is]. Don't do anything rash until you're out of the ropes and can leave the cave and look around and see for yourself."

I would also say, just in general, trying to convince guys that pickup works who are not in the field is a losing battle.

(my whole thing with Wong here has just been "dude, don't go slicing and dicing up your body yet. Just get some field experience, try to keep an open mind as you get it, then make your decisions from there" -- I just hate to see people go potentially fuck themselves up for zero reason. It's tragedy fuel)

When you get guys telling you, "I'm not in the field and don't have field experience but I don't think this could work for me," you've just go to tell them "Go get in the field FIRST... then report back."

Real Empiricists Test

In the comments of Saturday’s article about signs you’re in the friend zone, uForia makes the following comment: “Ive been a long time reader of your articles, and I can’t help but be skeptical at times. Your posts often have a tone of disliking competition from other men, and what makes you...

www.girlschase.com

Newbie Assignment

Introduction If you're brand new to the idea of approaching getting better with women and dating as a skill set, not to worry - most people in most parts of the world don't think of it that way yet, either. The great news is, anything can be learned as a skill - be that thing painting, writing...

www.skilledseducer.com

Chase

Okay, I'm done arguing with you and other forum members. You are most likely right, I need to get real-world experience. But Chase, how do I, a Chinese-Singaporean man, stop feeling genetically inferior to these blonde American goddesses? If personal experience with these women is the only way to overcome that feeling, does that mean I can still attract and date an attractive white woman I perceive as superior even while I still feel inferior? And on a slightly different note, do you have any recommendations for advice and resources to help me improve my basic social skills in American English? Should I start watching and learning from American TV series? For your information, I'm an English-as-a-second-language learner and often struggle to express myself naturally.

 

[bgwh]

how do I, a Chinese-Singaporean man, stop feeling genetically inferior to these blonde American goddesses?

You don't have to. You can start approaching while still having that belief. Here's a fun experiment:

- Approach 30 chicks asking for directions, your only goal is to note their reactions
- Then notice how many of them light up

This will start to make you doubt your incorrect beliefs.

 

[isildur1]

Dj Fuji was a short Asian coach and i really do like his 21 convention speeches i think they had geneuine value as well

Well she is very good looking according to my personal evaluation, she's a nine. Regardless, I should focus on improving my fundamentals and talking to white women in real life and seeing what happens in the real world.



I think my chances are higher than zero percent. I'm going to focus on the four fundamentals and talk to white women in real life. I'll post a picture of me and a cute white girlfriend when I succeed. Until then, I should be refraining from further debate on this forum and focusing on my progress in real life.



Okay, I'm done arguing with you and other forum members. You are most likely right, I need to get real-world experience. But Chase, how do I, a Chinese-Singaporean man, stop feeling genetically inferior to these blonde American goddesses? If personal experience with these women is the only way to overcome that feeling, does that mean I can still attract and date an attractive white woman I perceive as superior even while I still feel inferior? And on a slightly different note, do you have any recommendations for advice and resources to help me improve my basic social skills in American English? Should I start watching and learning from American TV series? For your information, I'm an English-as-a-second-language learner and often struggle to express myself naturally.

take elocution lessons with an American/English coach- this has been mentioned several times - make more American/English friends and integrate with the American community more in California go to more meetups etc try and meet other wingmen and puas in real life.

You already have tonnes of examples on this thread of people who are Asian who dated attractive western women what more do you want exactly?

 

[isildur1]

@isildur1,

I know you want to provide examples and tactics to @AbWongX.

I commend you for trying to help him. Just don't want to see you exhaust yourself on a debate like this.

You are not going to sway him with these for now. He does not have field experience. At this point, everything is 100% hypothetical to him.

Until he is out in the field, his opinions will be shaped by sheer volume of material consumed than by anything else. He's been consuming heaps and heaps of looksmax and black pill stuff. That is going to be his reality until he gets real world feedback that contradicts it.

With a guy in this stage, arguments to change his mind end up being Plato's allegory of the cave. He is tied to the post staring at shadows and you are telling him there is this whole world out there with all these colors and shapes and so on and... it doesn't compute.

The best thing you can do is tell him, "Look, they're going to cut your ropes in 30 days [or however long it is]. Don't do anything rash until you're out of the ropes and can leave the cave and look around and see for yourself."

I would also say, just in general, trying to convince guys that pickup works who are not in the field is a losing battle.

(my whole thing with Wong here has just been "dude, don't go slicing and dicing up your body yet. Just get some field experience, try to keep an open mind as you get it, then make your decisions from there" -- I just hate to see people go potentially fuck themselves up for zero reason. It's tragedy fuel)

When you get guys telling you, "I'm not in the field and don't have field experience but I don't think this could work for me," you've just go to tell them "Go get in the field FIRST... then report back."

Real Empiricists Test

In the comments of Saturday’s article about signs you’re in the friend zone, uForia makes the following comment: “Ive been a long time reader of your articles, and I can’t help but be skeptical at times. Your posts often have a tone of disliking competition from other men, and what makes you...

www.girlschase.com

Newbie Assignment

Introduction If you're brand new to the idea of approaching getting better with women and dating as a skill set, not to worry - most people in most parts of the world don't think of it that way yet, either. The great news is, anything can be learned as a skill - be that thing painting, writing...

www.skilledseducer.com

Chase

Steroids can kill- one guy did actually die of liver failure in my gym 9 years ago due to Steroid usage so someone considering that needs to really take account the risks

why not just hit the gym for a few years instead of injected all these harmful chemicals in your body that may have side effects that can ruin your mood and even potentially kill you

 

[rockstar]

Don’t you guys face similar problems with girls?

Like if a girl asks my lay count I’m not going to say “Well, I stopped counting earlier this year, but probably around 170”. If she asks the last time I had sex, am I going to say “Uhhhh….last night”?. Am I going to tell her about sleeping with models, hot 18yos, girls more attractive and feminine than her?

No lol (most of the time). It would cause me so many headaches. The girl probably won’t understand and will jump to weird generalizations about me. What if I really like her, but she’s only had 3 partners before, and thinks it’s crazy that we had sex on the second date when I wasn’t even her boyfriend yet? My past will just be so far out of her reality and unrelatable to her.

On one hand, I do believe in honesty and transparency in relationships. I want girls to be 100% honest and open with me. I think other people have the right to apply whatever standards they deem fit for dating. But I also know that people will judge me unfairly. They will lean towards drawing negative conclusions. And I believe I’m still capable of having more long faithful relationships. I want to believe I still make a better partner than most men (definitely believe this for casual things at least).

I’m glad for the people who end up in lifelong relationships with the best person they’ve ever dated. But I’ve dated some really cool and special girls now. I try to keep raising my standards and become more selective, but it’s hard to meet girls that match the best ones from my past. Every girl and connection are unique in their own ways, but some are definitely more special than others.

I wonder how I’ll move on as I continue to get older. I find it hard to imagine going from dating attractive 20yos to average 30yos. The latter just doesn’t really do much for me. Does that mean I’ll be “alpha widowed” after I cross the point where it starts getting harder for me to get hot young girls? How will I handle settling with less? I imagine I’ll just do it eventually.

Idk, I just find the former hot girl more relatable than the beta guy when people talk about things like this

 

[Chase]

@AbWongX,

Okay, I'm done arguing with you and other forum members. You are most likely right, I need to get real-world experience. But Chase, how do I, a Chinese-Singaporean man, stop feeling genetically inferior to these blonde American goddesses? If personal experience with these women is the only way to overcome that feeling, does that mean I can still attract and date an attractive white woman I perceive as superior even while I still feel inferior?

Most guys start out fearing women will judge them inferior on the approach.

You go up, talk to girls, they don't all bite your head off, and your views start to shift a little bit.

More talking, more not getting your head bitten clean off, still more shifting views.

You make some friends who are your favorite type of girl, get comfortable around them, discover they are totally normal humans, discover you are actually way better than them at X and Y and Z, then you start asking yourself, "Whoa, how did I ever think these girls were, like, superhuman or something? They're just girls!"

Then you shag a few girls like them. Then you date a few girls like them. Them you get totally used to girls like them.

Then some guy comes along and is like, "Whoa, how are you with that girl, I could never even get a girl like that!" and you are like... dude, WTF are you talking about? Just go talk to girls like this and ask them out!

Then you remember, "Oh yeah... whoa, girls like that used to totally intimidate me. That seems like another life back then..."

Something nobody tells you: a lot of guys who pedestalize other country/ethnicity girls go through this cycle where they come in, feel deeply insecure, push through it, eventually start dating those dream girls, get one or two as girlfriends, date exclusively that type of girl for a while, then start complaining about them, talk about cultural differences, and ultimately marry a chick of their own ethnicity and/or nationality. Not every single one, but I have seen it happen a lot.

And on a slightly different note, do you have any recommendations for advice and resources to help me improve my basic social skills in American English? Should I start watching and learning from American TV series? For your information, I'm an English-as-a-second-language learner and often struggle to express myself naturally.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it very much.

East Asian accents are fine. There are a bunch of girls who find them sexy now. When I was in California there were Asian dudes all over with white/blonde girlfriends.

One of my buddies on the US East Coast was always fussing over his Fujianese accent. I think it was probably my fault... I used to tease him about, "Dude, I have no idea what you just said" sometimes (his accent was really thick). So he would always be talking about looking into these accent-reduction classes. But he didn't need it (I told him that too). He was always getting hot white girls who thought his accent was "cute."

If it really bothers you, just get an American girlfriend once you get there and refine your accent with her. I did that with a Peruvian girlfriend... just say stuff in her accent as part of your relationship flirting. Now any time I use my limited Spanish around native Spanish speakers I have them telling me I sound like I'm from Peru.

Chase

 

[AbWongX]

Steroids can kill- one guy did actually die of liver failure in my gym 9 years ago due to Steroid usage so someone considering that needs to really take account the risks

why not just hit the gym for a few years instead of injected all these harmful chemicals in your body that may have side effects that can ruin your mood and even potentially kill you

Well, I thought steroids might help me overcome racial stereotypes in dating as a Chinese man by giving me more muscle and making me look more physically dominant. But you're right, the risks are too high. Building muscle naturally seems like the safer and smarter option at least for me.

@AbWongX,



Most guys start out fearing women will judge them inferior on the approach.

You go up, talk to girls, they don't all bite your head off, and your views start to shift a little bit.

More talking, more not getting your head bitten clean off, still more shifting views.

You make some friends who are your favorite type of girl, get comfortable around them, discover they are totally normal humans, discover you are actually way better than them at X and Y and Z, then you start asking yourself, "Whoa, how did I ever think these girls were, like, superhuman or something? They're just girls!"

Then you shag a few girls like them. Then you date a few girls like them. Them you get totally used to girls like them.

Then some guy comes along and is like, "Whoa, how are you with that girl, I could never even get a girl like that!" and you are like... dude, WTF are you talking about? Just go talk to girls like this and ask them out!

Then you remember, "Oh yeah... whoa, girls like that used to totally intimidate me. That seems like another life back then..."

Something nobody tells you: a lot of guys who pedestalize other country/ethnicity girls go through this cycle where they come in, feel deeply insecure, push through it, eventually start dating those dream girls, get one or two as girlfriends, date exclusively that type of girl for a while, then start complaining about them, talk about cultural differences, and ultimately marry a chick of their own ethnicity and/or nationality. Not every single one, but I have seen it happen a lot.



Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it very much.

East Asian accents are fine. There are a bunch of girls who find them sexy now. When I was in California there were Asian dudes all over with white/blonde girlfriends.

One of my buddies on the US East Coast was always fussing over his Fujianese accent. I think it was probably my fault... I used to tease him about, "Dude, I have no idea what you just said" sometimes (his accent was really thick). So he would always be talking about looking into these accent-reduction classes. But he didn't need it (I told him that too). He was always getting hot white girls who thought his accent was "cute."

If it really bothers you, just get an American girlfriend once you get there and refine your accent with her. I did that with a Peruvian girlfriend... just say stuff in her accent as part of your relationship flirting. Now any time I use my limited Spanish around native Spanish speakers I have them telling me I sound like I'm from Peru.

Chase

Chase, thanks for the insightful response. I appreciate your perspective on overcoming insecurity and the potential for transformation. I like your point about how approaching and interacting with white women could help me overcome my feelings of inferiority as a Chinese man. It's definitely something I can and should try.

You mentioned that many minority guys who pedestalize women from other countries or ethnicities eventually end up with someone from their own background. While I can understand this phenomenon, I don't get their situations. I've dated a couple of Chinese girls in Singapore during my high school and early twenties, and while I enjoyed those relationships with some women of my own ethnicity and my own nationality, I never felt a desire to marry any of them. I wasn't so excited about their looks to be honest. I realize this might sound harsh and politically incorrect, but I don't like the idea of settling for some Asian woman just because we share similar cultural backgrounds and have similar facial traits. I dislike how modern society promotes this restrictive idea. And the vast majority of Asian men in the West who ended up marrying Asian women never managed to date any of their dream girls. And I should do my best to be unlike them and go for what I desire.

Not trying to be too critical of other Asian men's experiences, but if these Asian PUAs managed to get their "dream girls" in the US, couldn't they marry one of these dream girls and having biological half-Asian children? I'm not seeing the logic behind it.

I'm not gonna lie, Chase, my very specific ideal type would be tall, fit blondes and redheads. Those 5'8" goddesses with killer jawlines? They're my kryptonite. Seriously, if I managed to get very lucky and date one of those beauties, I'd feel like I'd won the lottery in life. Forget settling down with some nice Chinese woman just because we're the same race. I'd be popping out half-Chinese babies with this blonde [or redhead] girlfriend and loving every second of it.

Call me shallow, but I realize that for me personally, if I am to marry a woman, health and looks are everything. If God existed and forced me to make a decision between marrying one healthy blonde american woman and marrying one healthy Asian woman, I'd rather personally have a smoking hot blonde girl with a bit of a narcissistic streak than a humble Asian girl any day of the week. Even if the blonde woman's a little bit crazy. That's the kind of woman who would make me very happy.

I appreciate your advice on not worrying too much about my accent. However, I'm still considering taking an accent reduction class, especially as I'll be in a new cultural environment. I'll continue working on improving my English to feel more confident and comfortable expressing myself.

Thanks for your insights, Chase. I hope to learn from your experiences and those of others in the community as I decide to enter the dating pool in the USA and hopefully manage to get lucky and marry an attractive white woman.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Should I start saving some money and looking into limb lengthening surgery and double jaw surgery and steroids before trying to approach any attractive blonde (or brunette or redhead) woman in the US? Is that the only way I can overcome these potential obstacles? I personally would not mind going this risky way if it really increases my chances of success with attractive blonde American women.

I need practical strategies, actionable steps that take into account the realities of being a shorter, Chinese man with a weird accent entering the competitive dating scene in California.

I'm not looking for platitudes or irrelevant examples or sympathy. I need concrete advice that acknowledges the realities of my personal situation and offers a path towards achieving my goals.

Wow.

No.

I feel bad for you. Whatever has led you believe that you have to take such drastic action to be worthy of American blonde women has done you a serious disservice.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Well, I thought steroids might help me overcome racial stereotypes in dating as a Chinese man by giving me more muscle and making me look more physically dominant. But you're right, the risks are too high. Building muscle naturally seems like the safer and smarter option at least for me.


Chase, thanks for the insightful response. I appreciate your perspective on overcoming insecurity and the potential for transformation. I like your point about how approaching and interacting with white women could help me overcome my feelings of inferiority as a Chinese man. It's definitely something I can and should try.

You mentioned that many minority guys who pedestalize women from other countries or ethnicities eventually end up with someone from their own background. While I can understand this phenomenon, I don't get their situations. I've dated a couple of Chinese girls in Singapore during my high school and early twenties, and while I enjoyed those relationships with some women of my own ethnicity and my own nationality, I never felt a desire to marry any of them. I wasn't so excited about their looks to be honest. I realize this might sound harsh and politically incorrect, but I don't like the idea of settling for some Asian woman just because we share similar cultural backgrounds and have similar facial traits. I dislike how modern society promotes this restrictive idea. And the vast majority of Asian men in the West who ended up marrying Asian women never managed to date any of their dream girls. And I should do my best to be unlike them and go for what I desire.

Not trying to be too critical of other Asian men's experiences, but if these Asian PUAs managed to get their "dream girls" in the US, couldn't they marry one of these dream girls and having biological half-Asian children? I'm not seeing the logic behind it.

I'm not gonna lie, Chase, my very specific ideal type would be tall, fit blondes and redheads. Those 5'8" goddesses with killer jawlines? They're my kryptonite. Seriously, if I managed to get very lucky and date one of those beauties, I'd feel like I'd won the lottery in life. Forget settling down with some nice Chinese woman just because we're the same race. I'd be popping out half-Chinese babies with this blonde [or redhead] girlfriend and loving every second of it.

Call me shallow, but I realize that for me personally, if I am to marry a woman, health and looks are everything. If God existed and forced me to make a decision between marrying one healthy blonde american woman and marrying one healthy Asian woman, I'd rather personally have a smoking hot blonde girl with a bit of a narcissistic streak than a humble Asian girl any day of the week. Even if the blonde woman's a little bit crazy. That's the kind of woman who would make me very happy.

I appreciate your advice on not worrying too much about my accent. However, I'm still considering taking an accent reduction class, especially as I'll be in a new cultural environment. I'll continue working on improving my English to feel more confident and comfortable expressing myself.

Thanks for your insights, Chase. I hope to learn from your experiences and those of others in the community as I decide to enter the dating pool in the USA and hopefully manage to get lucky and marry an attractive white woman.

It wouldnt matter if you were a super model white man. As long as you keep seeing these women as the prize and yourself as “lucky” if they give you the time of day, you will never have much success with them.

Tell me, other than their hair color and looks.. what makes these women so amazing?

After you meet a hundred or so of them you will be wondering the same thing…

Most of them are just basic chicks who happen to be somewhat more attractive than the average woman.

She goes to school or work, comes home, scrolls thru tiktok for a few hours, has Netflix on in the background while she spends an hour taking the perfect selfie to get likes on Instagram, and then she goes to bed. Occasionally she will hook up with whatever cool guy had the balls to approach her and she will shop with her friends on the weekends.

Most have no real goals they work towards, no real interest or hobbies that are cool, don’t make much money, aren’t overly intelligent.

How are they the prize? Are you not working on yourself? Working out and becoming healthy and fit? Having big ambitious goals that will give you wealth and success? Do you not have fun hobbies that you can introduce her to?

If you can’t figure out why YOU are the prize over a girl whose only value is mostly looks, then you have work to do.

Even if your took away my wealth, my status symbols such as cars and other things of that nature, and my connections…. When I walk up to a girl I know that she would be lucky to have me. A true rock solid belief that I’m the prize. Why?

1. I can give her amazing sex. I took the time to learn and understand what turns women on in the bedroom and I love making them feel pleasure. Because of this I’m a generous lover and make sure they get off multiple times before the sex is over. Most guys absolutely do not do this.
2. I understand how to connect with a woman’s emotions and amp them up and down as needed to give her all the emotional feelings she needs.
3. I have big goals and I work on them ruthlessly. My SMV will continue to rise because I’m going to keep making more money, get fitter, get better in every way because I work on myself. This is the exact opposite of most men.
4. If I choose to let her be a part of my life for more than a night she doesn’t have to worry about me becoming some beta. To often a woman meets a guy that seems all alpha and then six months later he tuned into a little beta and she felt like she got “bait and switched.”
5. I have no major red flags. I’m not a druggie, I don’t commit serious crimes, etc.
6. Because I have lots of life experience and like to learn about a vast array of things, anything she seeks to accomplish, it’s likely I have advise and/or connections that would be able to help her. Can most guys say that? Not really.
7. I will impress the fuck out of her family and friends. I’ve put in the work. I know how to dress, how to charm people, how to make her look good with me beside her. May sound silly but women thrive on validation and she will get lots of it by being with me.
8. I can go on and on but the point is, you need to come up with your own reasons on why you are legitimately the prize. You need to understand the value that you bring to any woman. And if you can’t think of anything, that’s your cue that you have bigger problems and need to get to work on developing yourself so that you truly know what you have to offer.

 

[swontario]

today I saw a real hot white girl with her asian boyfriend
pretty fashionable chick!

he was too (she was hot, he was mid... and they're together)

later in the gym saw this real rich guy kinda being paraded around by his hot girlfirend. real tall dude but a bit of a nice guy... "picture perfect boyfriend"

bet she'd fuck bruce lee if her white boyfriend was out of town sending her pictures from the beach

 

[Chase]

Not trying to be too critical of other Asian men's experiences, but if these Asian PUAs managed to get their "dream girls" in the US, couldn't they marry one of these dream girls and having biological half-Asian children? I'm not seeing the logic behind it.

Haha. You are not very good at putting yourself into other people's shoes, are you?

Blonde girls' shoes, other PUAs' shoes, etc.

Anyway, this is a journey you need to go through yourself.

Every guy says the same thing before he goes through it.

Some guys don't swing back to their own ethnicity, nationality, etc. But I used to be surprised by the ones who do. Not so anymore though.

IME, the guys who pedestalize other-race/culture girls the most are the ones who swing back to their own race/culture the hardest in the end.

But you see that in all kinds of things. The guys who treat you like some kind of god-tier celebrity guru eventually turn on you and view you as horrible, start talking shit about you as being "not all that", etc.

Just your run-of-the-mill basic splitting: the guy starts with idealization then once he gets close enough to the idol to discover imperfections he switches over to devaluation.

That's one more reason why women are wary of men putting them on pedestals... a lot of them have been burned by guys idealizing then devaluing them. It's an unpleasant enough experience.

Chase

 

[ChrisXKiss]

You make some friends who are your favorite type of girl, get comfortable around them, discover they are totally normal humans, discover you are actually way better than them at X and Y and Z, then you start asking yourself, "Whoa, how did I ever think these girls were, like, superhuman or something? They're just girls!"

Chase regarding this, I understand its importance, I only wanted to ask how long one stays in this face, and how he should go about it.

I mean that let’s say you want fashion models. Then you start going where they hang out and start chatting them up, and you don’t try to seduce them, just to get to know them.

I guess that if you really like one of them, trying to just befriend her will not go that well, and it’s better to get friends of her type that you are not that much into sexually.

And then you do this for a while, until you have some close fashion model friends, at which point you start going after other fashion models sexually by warm and cold approaches?

I just don’t want to get to a scenario where I have all these fashion models I know and hang out with as friends without sleeping with any of them in the end.

But I suppose if you keep sleeping with other kinds of women in the meantime, it won’t be that bad, because you will be satisfied sexually while building yourself this new funnel.

 

[AbWongX]

Haha. You are not very good at putting yourself into other people's shoes, are you?

Blonde girls' shoes, other PUAs' shoes, etc.

Anyway, this is a journey you need to go through yourself.

Every guy says the same thing before he goes through it.

Some guys don't swing back to their own ethnicity, nationality, etc. But I used to be surprised by the ones who do. Not so anymore though.

IME, the guys who pedestalize other-race/culture girls the most are the ones who swing back to their own race/culture the hardest in the end.

But you see that in all kinds of things. The guys who treat you like some kind of god-tier celebrity guru eventually turn on you and view you as horrible, start talking shit about you as being "not all that", etc.

Just your run-of-the-mill basic splitting: the guy starts with idealization then once he gets close enough to the idol to discover imperfections he switches over to devaluation.

That's one more reason why women are wary of men putting them on pedestals... a lot of them have been burned by guys idealizing then devaluing them. It's an unpleasant enough experience.

Chase

Chase, your point about idealization and devaluation in some minority men is interesting. It makes me wonder if these white girls lied and cheated on these minority guys or something, leading to the devaluation you described. I've heard the stereotype that Western/white women are more promiscuous and likely to dominate and cheat on you in relationships, especially compared to Asian women.

My past girlfriends were all Chinese-Singaporean just like I am, and they were indeed quite feminine and didn't try to dominate me. But honestly, I didn't value them enough to consider marriage. I used to feel guilty sometimes, especially when I remembered my high school girlfriend who wanted to get married, and I didn't. Luckily, she's now married to a friend in Singapore and has two children.

I think for me, regardless of whether a young woman is a feminine virgin or not, as long as she's healthy, very good-looking, and mentally stable enough, I'll value her and think of marrying said woman. And, political correctness aside, I honestly find European facial features to be the most attractive. Even my traditional Chinese father has admitted that white women, like prime Sharon Stone, are the most beautiful. We happen to not care much about body type as long as it's not overweight. We're talking about only facial beauty here.

However, the stereotype that my father and many other Chinese men believe is that you can't marry these pretty Western/white women because they're feminist sluts who will dominate and cheat on you. And my father said that apparently these white women in the Anglosphere only want white guys or occasionally black guys. But the Asian guys who believe in this stereotype have no personal experience with white women, just like me. So, I'm not sure if it's true or just sour grapes.

Honestly, Chase, I do have to take this personal journey as an Asian man in the West. I want to challenge my own assumptions and see what's truly possible. Maybe I'll find that those stereotypes about Western women are totally off-base, or maybe I'll discover something new about myself and what I'm really looking for in a wife. For now, the specific idea of attracting, dating, and marrying a young, beautiful, kind, and intelligent white woman, blonde, redhead, or otherwise, is very appealing to me.

And this whole "white women" thing brings up a lot of conflicting thoughts. On one hand, the stereotype is that they're more promiscuous and less reliable globally than East Asian women. But then I see rich powerful men still consistently choosing them as partners, which contradicts that idea. It makes me wonder if it's just a sociocultural difference or if there's something more to it. Are white women undesirable because of their supposed promiscuity, or is that just a myth perpetuated by many men who can't get them?

And then there's the dilemma of choosing a wife based on her potential as a mother. Let's say you are a beta man with limited sexual options. You cannot get young healthy women that are both beautiful and virtuous. By virtuous, I mean a young virgin who is nonfeminist and respects men OR a young sexually experienced woman who truly repents to God and embraces her femininity. Should the beta man prioritize a beautiful blonde [or redhead] woman's looks and genes, even if it means accepting a higher risk of infidelity or instability? Or should he prioritize loyalty and stability, even if it means settling for a less physically attractive wife? The "red pill" "logic" would say to go for the reliable plain-jane woman that looks like you, but my other "logic" would tell me to go for the blonde beautiful woman even if she is narcissistic and selfish. I am not tall. I am not good-looking. I am not white. Wouldn't my biological children appreciate inheriting those good genes from a healthy, beautiful mother? It's a tough choice, and I'm probably going to wrestle with it.

Of course, this is all just mental masturbation for now. I don't even have any relationship with any white woman in my life to apply these theories to. But it's something I can't help but think about. I guess it's all part of my personal journey as a Chinese man in the West.

 

[bgwh]

Chase, your point about idealization and devaluation in some minority men is interesting. It makes me wonder if these white girls lied and cheated on these minority guys or something, leading to the devaluation you described. I've heard the stereotype that Western/white women are more promiscuous and likely to dominate and cheat on you in relationships, especially compared to Asian women.

My past girlfriends were all Chinese-Singaporean just like I am, and they were indeed quite feminine and didn't try to dominate me. But honestly, I didn't value them enough to consider marriage. I used to feel guilty sometimes, especially when I remembered my high school girlfriend who wanted to get married, and I didn't. Luckily, she's now married to a friend in Singapore and has two children.

I think for me, regardless of whether a young woman is a feminine virgin or not, as long as she's healthy, very good-looking, and mentally stable enough, I'll value her and think of marrying said woman. And, political correctness aside, I honestly find European facial features to be the most attractive. Even my traditional Chinese father has admitted that white women, like prime Sharon Stone, are the most beautiful. We happen to not care much about body type as long as it's not overweight. We're talking about only facial beauty here.

However, the stereotype that my father and many other Chinese men believe is that you can't marry these pretty Western/white women because they're feminist sluts who will dominate and cheat on you. And my father said that apparently these white women in the Anglosphere only want white guys or occasionally black guys. But the Asian guys who believe in this stereotype have no personal experience with white women, just like me. So, I'm not sure if it's true or just sour grapes.

Honestly, Chase, I do have to take this personal journey as an Asian man in the West. I want to challenge my own assumptions and see what's truly possible. Maybe I'll find that those stereotypes about Western women are totally off-base, or maybe I'll discover something new about myself and what I'm really looking for in a wife. For now, the specific idea of attracting, dating, and marrying a young, beautiful, kind, and intelligent white woman, blonde, redhead, or otherwise, is very appealing to me.

And this whole "white women" thing brings up a lot of conflicting thoughts. On one hand, the stereotype is that they're more promiscuous and less reliable globally than East Asian women. But then I see rich powerful men still consistently choosing them as partners, which contradicts that idea. It makes me wonder if it's just a sociocultural difference or if there's something more to it. Are white women undesirable because of their supposed promiscuity, or is that just a myth perpetuated by many men who can't get them?

And then there's the dilemma of choosing a wife based on her potential as a mother. Let's say you are a beta man with limited sexual options. You cannot get young healthy women that are both beautiful and virtuous. By virtuous, I mean a young virgin who is nonfeminist and respects men OR a young sexually experienced woman who truly repents to God and embraces her femininity. Should the beta man prioritize a beautiful blonde [or redhead] woman's looks and genes, even if it means accepting a higher risk of infidelity or instability? Or should he prioritize loyalty and stability, even if it means settling for a less physically attractive wife? The "red pill" "logic" would say to go for the reliable plain-jane woman that looks like you, but my other "logic" would tell me to go for the blonde beautiful woman even if she is narcissistic and selfish. I am not tall. I am not good-looking. I am not white. Wouldn't my biological children appreciate inheriting those good genes from a healthy, beautiful mother? It's a tough choice, and I'm probably going to wrestle with it.

Of course, this is all just mental masturbation for now. I don't even have any relationship with any white woman in my life to apply these theories to. But it's something I can't help but think about. I guess it's all part of my personal journey as a Chinese man in the West.

So how many women did you approach today and ask for directions?

 

[Chase]

Of course, this is all just mental masturbation for now.

Yes, exactly.

If you have never played basketball before, and you spend months dreaming and imagining what it would be like to play basketball, then fearing that you would never be able to shoot the ball correctly because your hand is too small, then asking some basketball coaches 500 questions about foot positioning and the mechanics of stealing the ball and when to take a shot versus pass to a teammate and everything else under the sun... at some point you are finally going to hit the court and that is all going to go right out the window, all the theory and all the hypotheses and all the endless hours of Q&A, because you are going to be a total beginner who is purely worried about, "Holy crap, where did the ball go?" And, "Which one of these guys are my teammates again???"

So how many women did you approach today and ask for directions?

Yup.

Go out in Singapore. Day game. Night game. Learn to pick up NOW.

The skills translate. So does the momentum.

Waiting for the "dream move to the golden land with the dream girls" is all-or-nothing betting, so built up in your head that when you finally get there, can't approach out of fear, then get ignored by the one hot blonde girl in your class, you're going to end up falling back on, "Welp, guess that settles it: I need to get my legs lengthened."

Yeah, the girls aren't especially cute in Singapore. Also very short. The British just imported a bunch of lower class coolies to come in and build that rock up. Immigrant stock is very often less attractive, except in special cases. The hottest girls don't need to move usually. (goes for America too -- the hottest blondes never left Europe; they are not in the immigrant-descended States)

But practice is practice.

You gonna start a journal and go through the Newbie Assignment or just keep making up scenarios in your head?

Chase

 

[Chase]

@ChrisXKiss,

Chase regarding this, I understand its importance, I only wanted to ask how long one stays in this face, and how he should go about it.

I mean that let’s say you want fashion models. Then you start going where they hang out and start chatting them up, and you don’t try to seduce them, just to get to know them.

I guess that if you really like one of them, trying to just befriend her will not go that well, and it’s better to get friends of her type that you are not that much into sexually.

And then you do this for a while, until you have some close fashion model friends, at which point you start going after other fashion models sexually by warm and cold approaches?

I just don’t want to get to a scenario where I have all these fashion models I know and hang out with as friends without sleeping with any of them in the end.

But I suppose if you keep sleeping with other kinds of women in the meantime, it won’t be that bad, because you will be satisfied sexually while building yourself this new funnel.

Depends on the guy, I guess?

There are some guys who love to have female friends and always have tons of them. @Cody Lyans and @Michael Chief are both this way. Duncan North (creator of the Tao of Steve) was this way.

If you're not a big "female friends" kind of guy, then you just hang out with them until you start sleeping with girls like them, then your friends who are like them start to get a bit jealous, then if you don't bang them/date them too they get pissy and start parading guys around in front of you, then those friendships kind of fall apart and drift away.

How long does that take? I don't know. Guys progress at all different speeds. A guy can be a lot closer than he realizes and also gaming hard and then it's happening within 4-6 months. Or maybe he is not gaming much and is pretty far and he'll be platonic friends with these girls for years.

Chase

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Hey Chase thanks for the answer!

then your friends who are like them start to get a bit jealous, then if you don't bang them/date them too they get pissy and start parading guys around in front of you, then those friendships kind of fall apart and drift away.

This is particularly interesting to me. So the guys that keep a lot of girls as friends generally sleep with them from time to time to keep the friendships going?

Because in my mind I had this idea that you become friends with some girls, then you sleep with others, and well too bad for the first ones, you are friends already, you are not gonna ruin a good friendship for some sex you can find elsewhere.

And I felt that a lot of dating advice was basically about not mixing your friend groups with the girls you sleep with, but I suppose at an advanced seduction level the secret society seducer is even expected to sleep around with his female friends.

Could be why I don’t manage to keep female friends myself for long. I’ve heard stories of people sleeping around with everyone in their friend groups and couldn’t grasp it. I literally treat girls as friends when they do so as well. And if we start like that, I may not even recognise signs of interest later, and I’m finding it strange to even think of doing something more since we have been good friends for a while.

 

[swontario]

K I dunno if this is just like when you're shopping for a certain make of car and then all of a sudden start seeing them everywhere...

But in the grocery store today I saw another couple, maybe mid 30's... Beautiful white girl... Slim average Asian.

Nothing out of the ordinary... Just a regular ol couple. Both dressed maybe a little better than average, but nothing special.

I was staring at them in bewilderment... I think he caught on and gave me a wink, then slipped me a card for his leg lengthening surgeon. Just kidding. He was like 5'7"

 

[Chase]

@ChrisXKiss,

This is particularly interesting to me. So the guys that keep a lot of girls as friends generally sleep with them from time to time to keep the friendships going?

Really depends on the guy.

If he is sexy, there will be constant sexual tension between the girl and him. He may shag her or he may not; his call.

The guys who are not sexy end up friend zoned. That is when you hear girls saying stuff like, "I could never date him; he's like my brother!" Usually the guy will have a big secret crush on the girl though.

Sometimes you will see the guys who transition from unsexy to sexy. Then the girl goes from "seeing him like a brother" to all of a sudden now there is all this sexual tension there. At that point they may sleep together, but she will typically have very conflicted feelings (mostly because she saw him as provider material for so long and suddenly now they're banging like he's a lover... very confusing to a lot of girls).

Because in my mind I had this idea that you become friends with some girls, then you sleep with others, and well too bad for the first ones, you are friends already, you are not gonna ruin a good friendship for some sex you can find elsewhere.

And I felt that a lot of dating advice was basically about not mixing your friend groups with the girls you sleep with, but I suppose at an advanced seduction level the secret society seducer is even expected to sleep around with his female friends.

I would not say it is "expected." Again, depends on the guy.

I won't fuck female friends. Can't stop them getting attached after, no matter how freewheeling they are. Also, I know all the guys they have fucked, and let's just say there is no way I am going to be able to fuck the girl without feeling like I am getting some dude who I have seen and know's sloppy seconds (it's a different story if I have no visual impression of who a girl's priors are. Then who cares, unless the dude was a REAL dirtbag. But as soon as I have seen a girl with a guy, and his face is imprinted into my mind associated with her, her chances = ).

But different guys' brains work different. If a guy can meet other guys a girl is nailing, and he is fine to nail her after them, and he is good at neutralizing his BF value post-sex so the girl doesn't get attached or try to run a bunch of jealousy plotlines to make him chase her, then he can be the guy who sleeps with all his female friends and keeps it totally cool and casual with them after. IME these tend to be guys with less visual memories.

I have buddies who I have passed girls to after I shagged them, the buddy shagged the girl too, and then they became friends. Years later they are still friends. Meanwhile I cannot be friends with the girl because she will be angling for a relationship around me the entire time, and also I don't want to shag her anymore either because now my friend has shagged her and any time I think about fucking her I see my buddy's face grinning back at me (fuck that!).

Human dynamics are frickin' weird, what can I say.

Could be why I don’t manage to keep female friends myself for long. I’ve heard stories of people sleeping around with everyone in their friend groups and couldn’t grasp it. I literally treat girls as friends when they do so as well. And if we start like that, I may not even recognise signs of interest later, and I’m finding it strange to even think of doing something more since we have been good friends for a while.

Well, the first trick with female friends is you need to totally nuke your boyfriend value to them.

I can do that so long as we do not fuck. My approach to doing it is basically being very cool with them but just a bit outside of the attainability range. However, if we shag, there is this sea change that occurs in girls where you can see them realize, "Wow... I really CAN have him!" and after that there is just no stopping it.

If you fail to nuke your pre-sex boyfriend value, then female "friends" will basically hang around only so long as they think they still have a shot with you, but after a certain point they will auto-reject because they decide you aren't going to do anything and won't go for them.

(the other route I suppose is to be a totally platonic nice guy, and then they are happy to have you around forever as a neutered "friend"... but if you are learning pickup it is basically impossible to be this guy past a certain point)

But nuke the pre-sex boyfriend value and then you can have a flirty friendship with them... just don't push it so hard that they get really horny and start angling for you to fuck them that night. Because when that happens, if you do not, they lose a bunch of respect for you, and then once again the friendship dynamic gets fucked up.

So basically the recipe is:

1. Disqualified as a boyfriend
2. Keep flirtation going, but never so heavy she's ready to fuck
3. If you DO fuck, you'd better not actually have boyfriend value that she is going to "discover" post-sex

Chase