Old School Direct Game Openers.... Revisited

[Warped Mindless]

Back when I only did direct game I opened a lot with “Hoy fuck, Your cute as hell. What’s your name?”

I had great results with it but you have to have the vibe and vocal tonality to make it work.

It has to be a strong statement and even when your asking her name its more of a demand and not a request.

Then I would transition into something like “Its always a shame when someone’s personality doesn’t live up to their looks.”

I would use that combo in daygame a lot when I got an approach invite (either forced or natural) and it works well if your fundamentals are handled.

Giver her a direct opener
Then make it seem like she needs to live up to the compliment
Use push-pull and other hot/cold tactics so ensure she’s uncertain how much (or even if you do) like her

Almost none of the current generation of gamers does direct game correctly. @Teevster has a great article on the difference between “neo-direct” and REAL direct game that I suggest everyone reads.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Cool would you link it?

 

[Warped Mindless]

Cool would you link it?

How REAL Direct Game Works... Compared with Neo-Direct

Real direct game has a lot of nuance and flavor that overly simplistic “neo-direct” lacks. What are the differences? All spelled out for you to see. Hey guys, and welcome back. Contents I. Real Direct Game The Use of Pre-opening Techg The Not-So-Direct Approach II. Frame Control Calibration...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Tim Iron]

This CAN work, but it is not a good opener.

You will get the same response as another person in the thread got:

"
Ask yourself the following questions:
- Do these openers set you apart from other men?
- Do these women make her curious about interacting further with you?
- Do these openers open up the way for easy transitions?
- Do these openers make her feel secure or at ease to talk to you?
- Do these openers convey attractive traits about you?

In my opinion, a good opener needs to score "yes" on three of these five factors (there are some exceptions - these are not rules set in stone by any means)

Yours currently scores on none."

Best,
Teevster

I mostly approach women on the move (walking, buying something at a store, waiting for public transportation/taxi, at the bank, on an ATM queue), so it is a good way to push me to approach. I still use it indoors in restaurants, it works well enough. And I approach women in situations that most guys would completely avoid (like a woman jogging or chatting with one or two of her friends on the street) and I almost never go to clubs and bars.

 

[Teevster]

I mostly approach women on the move (walking, buying something at a store, waiting for public transportation/taxi, at the bank, on an ATM queue), so it is a good way to push me to approach. I still use it indoors in restaurants, it works well enough. And I approach women in situations that most guys would completely avoid (like a woman jogging or chatting with one or two of her friends on the street) and I almost never go to clubs and bars.

If it works well-enough for you then, all credit to you.

I am personally never happy with "good enough" or well enough.

-Teevster

 

[DeepShadow]

Not bad, not good.

Can this work? Yes.

Are these good openers? No.

Ask yourself the following questions:
- Do these openers set you apart from other men?
- Do these women make her curious about interacting further with you?
- Do these openers open up the way for easy transitions?
- Do these openers make her feel secure or at ease to talk to you?
- Do these openers convey attractive traits about you?

In my opinion, a good opener needs to score "yes" on three of these five factors (there are some exceptions - these are not rules set in stone by any means)

Yours currently scores on none.

Best,
Teevster

well an attractive trait is that I have the balls to approach it, and apart from the clumsy attempts of men, even simple requests like these but intentional and clear can convey confidence and resourcefulness. or wanting to pose it as a semi-question is accepting and therefore at least it is not scary and accepting this opening leads to a man-woman atmosphere and therefore it is an easy transition to have a more advanced atmosphere in seduction. or am I wrong? the other questions, however, certainly do not check to be a distinctive thing and to make it curious not directly at least.

there seems to me to be similar to one of your approaches suggested in the last posts on a correct use of direct "I saw you walking, and I thought you looked kinda cute and wanted to say hi."

Also I wanted to ask you how important this is compared to the after in your opinion, and should these checklists also be applied to indirect openings? You could give examples with the differences because I think I don't understand.
I normally on the day use something like:
1) Hey I know it sounds rather impulse but I saw you, I thought you were interesting and I had to get to know you to understand it
2) A compliment on style with a linked adjective that acts as a push. I do this if it is genuine and I am getting something connected
3) if I have time like the girl is sitting etc I use some situational or comment on something around us
On the premises in the evening:
1) I almost always play on the non-verbal in pre-opening by exchanging smiles or making expressions such as "you seem to know you" and the opening varies a lot, even a lot about the fact that she has been looking at me or else to get my attention but has not done nothing.
2) Some situationals
3) Use a fake preselection, I'll post a post because it works a lot for me and is fun but I use it a little strangely.
extra: if I don't have anything lately in any context I generally use the sentences I wrote to you before or just a "how is the evening / day going"

 

[Tim Iron]

well an attractive trait is that I have the balls to approach it, and apart from the clumsy attempts of men, even simple requests like these but intentional and clear can convey confidence and resourcefulness. or wanting to pose it as a semi-question is accepting and therefore at least it is not scary and accepting this opening leads to a man-woman atmosphere and therefore it is an easy transition to have a more advanced atmosphere in seduction. or am I wrong? the other questions, however, certainly do not check to be a distinctive thing and to make it curious not directly at least.

there seems to me to be similar to one of your approaches suggested in the last posts on a correct use of direct "I saw you walking, and I thought you looked kinda cute and wanted to say hi."

Also I wanted to ask you how important this is compared to the after in your opinion, and should these checklists also be applied to indirect openings? You could give examples with the differences because I think I don't understand.
I normally on the day use something like:
1) Hey I know it sounds rather impulse but I saw you, I thought you were interesting and I had to get to know you to understand it
2) A compliment on style with a linked adjective that acts as a push. I do this if it is genuine and I am getting something connected
3) if I have time like the girl is sitting etc I use some situational or comment on something around us
On the premises in the evening:
1) I almost always play on the non-verbal in pre-opening by exchanging smiles or making expressions such as "you seem to know you" and the opening varies a lot, even a lot about the fact that she has been looking at me or else to get my attention but has not done nothing.
2) Some situationals
3) Use a fake preselection, I'll post a post because it works a lot for me and is fun but I use it a little strangely.
extra: if I don't have anything lately in any context I generally use the sentences I wrote to you before or just a "how is the evening / day going"

A lot of approaches work if you do enough volume, you have your fundamentals handled correctly and you know how to deliver the right emotional expression when saying them. Walking up to a lady on the street to ask right of the bat "are you single?" doesn't sound like it would work, but Ricardus made it work. The actual phrases you are saying isn't the only thing that women take into account before deciding to reply and continue the conversation.

 

[Teevster]

Great discussion here. Some interesting trivia, this opener which is now considered neo direct is actually not neo (new) at all. Ross Jeffries was teaching it in the 90s.

Wasn't it also featured in his first book (the one with the overly long title)?

If you analyze its structure, is almost always 1. pace and 2. compliment. We used to often add an 3. SOI to it as well, such as "so I wanted to meet you."

Yeah the issue is not the structure but the compliment showing off way too much interest.

So this opener is like a quarter century old. It started gaining huge popularity in the community when Sinn and Future took the subway in NYC one day and figured out how great it can work in day game, ca. 2007.

Three things here:
1. This is by far not Ross' best material. It was one of his early day material. I haven't seen him advocate such openers in more recent times.
2. Sinn and Future would most likely make ANYTHING work. Also, what was the deliver? Overexageration? Genune vibe? aloof?
3. What was the follow-up? Did they keep reinforcing the frame that they were interest in her? Or did act more challenging and show more mixed signals (ref: warped's comment in this thread)?

... Because nobody was ever EVER saying this to girls back then. Now it's as overused and mainstream as "what's your star sign" was in the 70s. In 2018 I met a guy who used it and he had never even heard of the community. Yet used the opener EXACTLY and verbatim.

I am not sure that many people do daygame. I can admit that London may be an exception, since last I was there, I could see dudes doing daygame near Oxford Street....

But elsewhere, say Paris, I don't see too much of it (and why would you? just go sit in any terrace during the daytime and you have a satisfying pool of women to choose from!). Yet, the issues with neo-direct are still the same: men giving away all of their frame... and do nothing post-opening to balance out the directness and the high amount of displayed intent.

When you do a direct approach, you are assuming attraction. And if you have attraction you should compliance test, not give her a compliment. This is pretty basic stuff, I was shocked on 2010 that nobody has realized this... imagine now

=> Qualification....

ref: Razorjack's method:
1. Assume Attraction
2. When seeing signs of interest... start qualifying lightly in a challenging way
3. Eventually, start qualifying more heavily, together with more physical touching.

I don't think you need to worry about copy right as love systems doesn't even exist as a company anymore... They got bought out by some guys who don't even teach pickup.

Yeah, I also found the ebook these screenshots where taken from on Scribd... uploaded by no other than LoveSystems themselves.

Best,
Teevster

 

[Teevster]

It has to be a strong statement and even when your asking her name its more of a demand and not a request.

Then I would transition into something like “Its always a shame when someone’s personality doesn’t live up to their looks.”

Yeah, this is what makes the difference in my opinion.

I would use that combo in daygame a lot when I got an approach invite (either forced or natural) and it works well if your fundamentals are handled

In addition to this: screen for or trigger approach invitations...

Giver her a direct opener
Then make it seem like she needs to live up to the compliment
Use push-pull and other hot/cold tactics so ensure she’s uncertain how much (or even if you do) like her

Great Summary.

I also followed a similar model when I experimented with direct game 10 years ago.

I would be less authoritative and more aloof in my "compliments". But that's just a personal tweak. I am an aloof person, especially around women.

Best,
Teevster

 

[Teevster]

well an attractive trait is that I have the balls to approach it, and apart from the clumsy attempts of men, even simple requests like these but intentional and clear can convey confidence and resourcefulness. or wanting to pose it as a semi-question is accepting and therefore at least it is not scary and accepting this opening leads to a man-woman atmosphere and therefore it is an easy transition to have a more advanced atmosphere in seduction. or am I wrong? the other questions, however, certainly do not check to be a distinctive thing and to make it curious not directly at least.

If it works well enough for you, then I am happy for you.

there seems to me to be similar to one of your approaches suggested in the last posts on a correct use of direct "I saw you walking, and I thought you looked kinda cute and wanted to say hi."

No, it ain't similar, since you are here a bit more aloof in your compliment "I though you looked kinda cute" - which implies more mixed signals.

Best,
Teevster

 

[Rakehell]

I feel like giving compliments is sort of an autopilot/lazy response. When I see a girl and i’m not in the headspace to construct something more intricate and 1 to 1, I feel compelled to open with a compliment as it is just so easy and simple to do. I wonder why it is ingrained for most to want to go that direct route intrinsically.

I work sales and it’s the same there. On a bad day instead of sparking a genuine conversation with a costumer you just wanna say “what are you shopping for today”, which will almost always get hit with “I’m just looking around”.

 

[DeepShadow]

If it works well enough for you, then I am happy for you.



No, it ain't similar, since you are here a bit more aloof in your compliment "I though you looked kinda cute" - which implies more mixed signals.

Best,
Teevster

Have you made an article on the initial part on the part of activating invitations to approach and the various nuances on adding small words to incorporate the push / pull principle or to give less interest / non-security of interest? I mean something about push / pull micro calibration and blending and other concepts that can be very blended and micro scaled.
Because, for example, adding rather to the word cute gives me interest, in the sense that if saying cute to him expresses interest 6 for me to say kinda cute is a 7. Some semantic nuances are very personal.

And what about the non-verbal interest what do you think? Do you think giving a compliment with a neutral tone and body language not facing her is better than a push and pull opening based only on the sentence?

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Wasn't it also featured in his first book (the one with the overly long title)?

I don't remember, it's been ages since I read that one. You reckon worth revisiting?

Yeah the issue is not the structure but the compliment showing off way too much interest.

Exactly. It just hands all the power over to the girl on a silver platter. And sometimes I got the eye-roll when I used it... not every set has to hook but you shouldn't really get the eye-roll! lol

Three things here:
1. This is by far not Ross' best material. It was one of his early day material. I haven't seen him advocate such openers in more recent times.

Yeah I think Ross is underrated actually. His performance on Louis Theroux is extremely impressive.

2. Sinn and Future would most likely make ANYTHING work. Also, what was the deliver? Overexageration? Genune vibe? aloof?

They said it was "powerful man making himself vulnerable to a beautiful woman"... so yeah I guess genuine vibe. Still a numbers game though obviously, not something that they would expect to have a high hook rate... they did it because they figured, no time for Mystery Method on a short train ride, compliment better than nothing. This was the very early days of structured daygame, we're talking literally 2006 or something.

3. What was the follow-up? Did they keep reinforcing the frame that they were interest in her? Or did act more challenging and show more mixed signals (ref: warped's comment in this thread)?

So when the time is very short, he followed up with a BIG qualification hoop like "what makes you special... then if he got compliance on that, he'd say "listen I gotta run but why don't we exchange numbers and if we like each other over the phone, maybe we'll meet up." Then a LONG phone call to prevent flakes.

If he has more time he will go into teasing and qualification and other regular game.
To be fair the London daygamers do this too... they do tease after this opener, and they do qualify.

I am not sure that many people do daygame. I can admit that London may be an exception, since last I was there, I could see dudes doing daygame near Oxford Street....

Interesting. Maybe they're all flocking to Eastern Europe because of the perception that girls are hotter there and easier (I disagree on both counts but I guess it was true at some point until 2014 or so).

But elsewhere, say Paris, I don't see too much of it (and why would you? just go sit in any terrace during the daytime and you have a satisfying pool of women to choose from!).

Very interesting also. The only countries where I've seen a lot of daygame (naturally, as part of their culture, not PUAs) is Italy... and Argentina. Of course Argentina was colonized by lots of Italians and their version of Spanish sounds almost like Italian so it's almost the same thing.

ref: Razorjack's method:
1. Assume Attraction
2. When seeing signs of interest... start qualifying lightly in a challenging way
3. Eventually, start qualifying more heavily, together with more physical touching.

This is very similar to what I do also... I told you this in private chat a couple of weeks ago, I start with very simple compliance tests / qualification hoops and gradually ratchet them up until eventually I prompt massive compliance and at that point I almost always get it because now the psychological concept of "commitment and consistency" comes into play. And I do the exact same thing with sexualization. Very gradually ramping up compliance and sexualization.

-Karea.

 

[DeepShadow]

Molto interessante anche. Gli unici paesi in cui ho visto molti giochi diurni (naturalmente, come parte della loro cultura, non PUA) sono l'Italia... e l'Argentina. Ovviamente l'Argentina è stata colonizzata da molti italiani e la loro versione dello spagnolo suona quasi come l'italiano, quindi è quasi la stessa cosa.

In Italy not or certainly not in recent years. So much so that the seduction community is practically non-existent in Italy. Many know how to do it but it is more cultural than Italian to be a great lover. The only seducer I find competent is gio di lorenzo he has a course that shows his approaches and interactions in the field but maintains verbal levels etc. for beginners because he says that seduction in Italy among those who follow it is at level 0 and consequently he disseminates it with simple concepts that a specific target can understand.

 

[Teevster]

I feel like giving compliments is sort of an autopilot/lazy response. When I see a girl and i’m not in the headspace to construct something more intricate and 1 to 1, I feel compelled to open with a compliment as it is just so easy and simple to do. I wonder why it is ingrained for most to want to go that direct route intrinsically.

I work sales and it’s the same there. On a bad day instead of sparking a genuine conversation with a costumer you just wanna say “what are you shopping for today”, which will almost always get hit with “I’m just looking around”.

Because most men are uncomfortable with tension and ambiguity. With the compliment, you attempt to cut out the ambiguity: you know rather quickly whether she accepts the compliment or not.

Best,
Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Have you made an article on the initial part on the part of activating invitations to approach and the various nuances on adding small words to incorporate the push / pull principle or to give less interest / non-security of interest? I mean something about push / pull micro calibration and blending and other concepts that can be very blended and micro scaled.

Yes I have, but not for daygame, but maybe Dan or Gun did.

Push and pull is a concept discuss to death. Can't remember if I have written a post about it. I am sure Chase has. Do a little search on Girlschase for "approach invitation" and "chase frames"/"push and pull"/"push & pull".

Best,
Teevster

 

[Teevster]

I don't remember, it's been ages since I read that one. You reckon worth revisiting?

No, it is pretty meh.

Exactly. It just hands all the power over to the girl on a silver platter. And sometimes I got the eye-roll when I used it... not every set has to hook but you shouldn't really get the eye-roll! lol

Eye-roll would kill my ego. Never gotten eye rolls in field, at least not for years.

Yeah I think Ross is underrated actually. His performance on Louis Theroux is extremely impressive.

Agreed.

They said it was "powerful man making himself vulnerable to a beautiful woman"... so yeah I guess genuine vibe. Still a numbers game though obviously, not something that they would expect to have a high hook rate... they did it because they figured, no time for Mystery Method on a short train ride, compliment better than nothing. This was the very early days of structured daygame, we're talking literally 2006 or something.

Same logic as the "go direct during the 30 minutes before closing time".

So when the time is very short, he followed up with a BIG qualification hoop like "what makes you special... then if he got compliance on that, he'd say "listen I gotta run but why don't we exchange numbers and if we like each other over the phone, maybe we'll meet up." Then a LONG phone call to prevent flakes.

Exactly, the follow-up is nice. A technique should not be seen in isolation, but as a part of a whole. This is something noobs always miss out on.

If he has more time he will go into teasing and qualification and other regular game.
To be fair the London daygamers do this too... they do tease after this opener, and they do qualify.

Even though none of this fits my style... I can totally see how this can work now. Fact remains, it is nothing like this new "trendy" neo-direct game.

Interesting. Maybe they're all flocking to Eastern Europe because of the perception that girls are hotter there and easier (I disagree on both counts but I guess it was true at some point until 2014 or so).

I agree that the girls there are hotter though.

Very interesting also. The only countries where I've seen a lot of daygame (naturally, as part of their culture, not PUAs) is Italy... and Argentina. Of course Argentina was colonized by lots of Italians and their version of Spanish sounds almost like Italian so it's almost the same thing.

I think that's a cultural thing more than a PUA thing, wouldn't you say?

Best,
Teevster

 

[DeepShadow]

I think that's a cultural thing more than a PUA thing, wouldn't you say?

Best,
Teevster

yes I wrote it in the comment before. And it is obvious to me in Italy because the seduction community is practically non-existent but at the same time we have a culture about being the best lover and generally more aggressive, part of the Latin culture present in us I believe. Similar to Spain.

 

[RedNeck]

@Teevster , Hey thanks for the post, man . I have a question I want to have your take on it. Doesn’t opening the girl even indirectly, signaling interest, especially in a cold approach scenario?
Let’s say a girl sitting on the bench in park. What could be the other reasons you go and talk to her ? I think she would know you are interested.

thanks

 

[Warped Mindless]

@Teevster , Hey thanks for the post, man . I have a question I want to have your take on it. Doesn’t opening the girl even indirectly, signaling interest, especially in a cold approach scenario?
Let’s say a girl sitting on the bench in park. What could be the other reasons you go and talk to her ? I think she would know you are interested.

thanks

Not teev but I’ll give my two cents….
Many women just assume al guys that talk to them are interested in them, the key is to make them believe that their looks have no power over you and letting them subtly know that your trying to find if they have other good qualities besides just a pretty face