Old School Direct Game Openers.... Revisited

[Teevster]

@Teevster , Hey thanks for the post, man . I have a question I want to have your take on it. Doesn’t opening the girl even indirectly, signaling interest, especially in a cold approach scenario?
Let’s say a girl sitting on the bench in park. What could be the other reasons you go and talk to her ? I think she would know you are interested.

thanks

I agree with what @Warped Mindless said. However I would also add that yes, it is true that most women would assume that your move to approach her is a sign of interest from your end. Nothing you can do about this, in the sense that this is an intrinsic aspect of cold approaching. However, what you can do is avoid "adding" to it by showing over the top amount of interest.

Remember also that the key is NOT to NOT SHOW ANY INTEREST. The ideal is to show mixed signals. Hence, approaching her may show interest, but then you do things that show less interest such as a tease or a playful disqualifiers or simply a challenging attitude. The idea is to find balance : that sweet spot between showing interest and showing disinterest.

Also, another thing is that even though she thinks you are into her, it does not imply a frame that you are the one chasing her or hitting on her. And this is key, because it affects the overall vibe on the interaction and limits some of her social power in that moment, allowing you to gain more control over the interaction. She cannot for example go all testy on you, because it hasn't been made explicit that you are hitting on her. You also come off as smoother and less needy. See even if women see through your game, they still like the fact that you have good game.

But the most important dimension, is that you do not force her into a corner where you has to make a quick decision of whether or not she has to reject you upon the approach (where she has limited knowledge about you) - which in most cases will lead to automatic rejections. This last part is the number one reason to not go "neo-direct".

Best,
Teevster

 

[trashKENNUT]

to approach a woman from behind and say "You have quite an amazing ass",

Sidenote:

Here's why Tribal elders, high level guys, elite guys
don't recommend this or crazy stuff.

i think it's important to let in details because whenever you see something flashy and skillful that Tribal elders do or some guy in your social circle that is popular, you want to do it too. The thing is Number 1, you are seeing it at surface level. Number 2, unlike football, the world can be more mean towards you and this act if you try to do it, especially today in the WOKE world.

Here's why.

1)Point
2)Principle
3)Play (Hyperbole/Exaggeration)

Not only is she doing something and may not see you doing something [Point], social conditioning in a public place and female causality perceives tribe [Principle], means that she's going to respond "badly". [Play]

TLDR:
You creeping her out because
- you don't understand what she is doing,
- where she is,
- you (as in your words, your demeanor, etc)

I have literally say stupid things to females. Something along the lines like "Don't Act Like You Pretty" as on opener.

to commenting "I love mums. I MEAN <insert hyperbole>" on single mums TikTok profile.

z@c+

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Eye-roll would kill my ego. Never gotten eye rolls in field, at least not for years.

Yeah that was before I had state management in solo-daygame down consistently and it did crush my ego when it happened... one day I was so annoyed that I spent the whole train ride home thinking about how the microcalibration of a direct approach is set up, and how we could get better compliance momentum.

As a result I came up with a whole new category of openers and a completely different MO of doing daygame and that worked a lot better. Opening with a compliment is basically a technical mistake, unless you take it back immediately. Torero did that nicely actually he gave a compliment and then says "BUT... but, but..." and starts teasing her... then challenging (which is a form of A3).

Even though none of this fits my style... I can totally see how this can work now. Fact remains, it is nothing like this new "trendy" neo-direct game.

I just got that distinction last week... I thought you guys meant the London daygame direct spam when you say neo-direct, but it's been cleared up now. Just constantly pulling on her basically... just drooling all over her until she's so wet that hopefully some of your saliva will drip down to her pussy... okay!

I agree that the girls there are hotter though.

They're more beautiful objectively, better facial symmetry, doll themselves up nicely, slim bodies, feminine. However I find it to be a "cold" look, a bit lifeless, almost like a mannequin. I've never been able to get into it... Eastern Europe never interested me much with the exception of Hungary (more for their culture than their beauty though). I can see why guys like EE though, they're definitely sexy.

I think that's a cultural thing more than a PUA thing, wouldn't you say?

Yes, I did say that in my post. Yes. That was cultural... and it was before smart phones. The last time I saw it was in 2011 (though I can't say for sure if it has changed since I haven't been back to either Italy or Argentina since then).

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

@Teevster , Hey thanks for the post, man . I have a question I want to have your take on it. Doesn’t opening the girl even indirectly, signaling interest, especially in a cold approach scenario?
Let’s say a girl sitting on the bench in park. What could be the other reasons you go and talk to her ? I think she would know you are interested.

You can also disqualify yourself completely on the opener and then reframe that a bit later in the set.

I have done this to good health but I would only do it where your approach would make it VERY obvious that you're approaching her specifically, when there is no plausible way to just "get into a conversation" with her. In that case it can be useful.

You can also do it as a calibrater if she gives you too much of a "you're hitting on me" vibe, disqualify yourself completely and reframe it later. It's not an ideal move in most sets, but in some situations it is the highest probability move.

 

[SexualHero]

Here is few of the openers I like. I am not sure if they can be classified as direct openers, but they are somewhat more direct then usual indirect stuff.

There is something intriguing about you, and I can't just walk by without figuring out what it is.

Tell me something... Have you ever seen someone you'd like to talk to, and didn't, and kind of regretted that afterwards

 

[SexualHero]

I feel like giving compliments is sort of an autopilot/lazy response. When I see a girl and i’m not in the headspace to construct something more intricate and 1 to 1, I feel compelled to open with a compliment as it is just so easy and simple to do. I wonder why it is ingrained for most to want to go that direct route intrinsically.

I work sales and it’s the same there. On a bad day instead of sparking a genuine conversation with a costumer you just wanna say “what are you shopping for today”, which will almost always get hit with “I’m just looking around”.

I like compliment openers more then "neo direct" openers. For example, "I just have to say you look really good in that dress" is better then "You look cute I wanted to say hi"

 

[Warped Mindless]

opener I’ve used a bit here lately...

“Fuck covid!”

And go in for an immediate fist bump. I like this because it screens out all the women I want nothing to do with.

 

[Just a Man]

If by any chance, you still do not see how neo direct game (stating all your interest right away, lose all your frame, and be a simp: e.g. "hey I saw you walking by and I just wanted to say you look gorgeous") differs from good old school direct game, then perhaps you would like to check out this short section from the Love System's Routine Manual.

Notice how they label direct openers as something that "explicitly express some degree of interest. It doesn't mean reveal all your cards and give away your frame. It also has some ambiguity to them (in regard to the level of intent you express) and they also convey attractive traits (mostly... a shitlot of confidence). It is nothing like this neo-direct crap...

I could totally see myself use many of these openers. I consider most of them quite good. I have personally used the "If you're going to look at me like that, you should at least talk to me". It is an amazing openers, with a 50% success rate (much higher than any neo-direct opener). When it does work, it truly WORKS.

And that I think is true to all these openers. They are higher risk and higher reward than most indirect openers. They do the screening job perfectly, without making you come off as a chump or lose frame - and when successful, will speed up the seduction process - everything direct game was initially designed to accomplish. Good stuff

Just jumping in her now, way behind others. But anyway, my thoughts...

Back in the 1990s, guys would occasionally stick their necks out and say something like "Hey gorgeous" to a girl. I think it seemed assertive to the guy but I think I already realized, obscurely, that it seemed corny to the girl. (Does anyone still do this?)

For years of my life, I had no knowledge of the lingo of "game". I was not a "seducer". But I think it's always been true that stating a specifically sexual interest too overtly too soon sets off the ultra-available, low-value, too-needy, probably corny/boring, possibly creepy, scenario.

But there is also a flip-side, and it comes down to what I now know is called "calibration". In specific circumstances, where you sense a girl is either DTF or ultra-strongly interested, you need to signal sexual intent very fast.

So on one occasion, I said to a girl the first time I met her, in a bar, "My only interest in women is sexual". I was effectively telling her that she's meat to me. But it was already a "hot" conversation, and she enjoyed it. We ended up in an LTR. But I absolutely must emphasize that that was not an opener. We'd already shot the breeze about non-sexual topics and found a rapport.

Another girl who tried to chase frame me one time as having a crush on her, I broke that frame in a few steps, one of which was just to say: "The attraction is physical. I don't know you well enough for it to be more." But again, this was well into a dynamic that involved me trying to undo her auto-rejection, so it was complex, with a lot else already going on.

 

[Rain]

Indirect direct openers on the main site

Easy Opening with Indirect Direct

Something I like prescribing for newer guys as a very low-pressure but high-impact and really quite easy opener is something I’ve begun referring to as “Indirect Direct”, for lack of a better term. Your run of the mill, general indirect opening – or, engaging a woman in conversation under...

www.girlschase.com

eg

[to girl next to Starbucks] Me: Excuse me, can you tell me where there’s a Starbucks around here?
Girl: Uhhh… right there.
Me: I know, I’m kidding. I just thought you were cute and wanted to come say hi. I’m Chase.

and

[to woman leaning against bar] Me: Hey, you’re taking up all the prime real estate.
Girl: What? / [or clever remark back]
Me: I’m just kidding. I thought you were cute and I wanted to come introduce myself. I’m Chase.

and

[to woman waiting in line] Me: Do you mind if I cut in front of you? I hate waiting in line.
Girl: Uh, no / Okay, go ahead.
Me: Relax, I’m kidding / Thanks, but I’m just kidding. I thought you were cute and wanted to introduce myself since we’re stuck waiting here anyway. I’m Chase.

Also

Having Trouble With Daygame

That could be a problem right there. In my opinion, 99% of daygame results depends on state. It's no coincidence that you see some of the best daygamers out there espouse meditation and place a lot of emphasis on state control in general. James Marshall (who probably more than anyone inspires...

www.skilledseducer.com

From the thread

You: "Excuse me... hey there. Hi. Do you have any idea where the Mangrove Coffee is around here?"
Her: "Mangrove Coffee? Hmm. I'm not sure I know that one." [curiosity]
You: "Yeah, I'm looking for this new coffee place. Kinda hard to find. Hey, that's a really nice scarf you have on. Great complement for your outfit."
Her: "Thank you!" [arousal]

Does this last one here, is that also indirect direct, I'm thinking probably yes?
@Teevster would these 'indirect direct' work better or worse or same than old school direct?
For daygame incase that variable affects it.
If these don't belong in this thread, feel free to have them removed.

 

[Teevster]

Indirect direct openers on the main site

Easy Opening with Indirect Direct

Something I like prescribing for newer guys as a very low-pressure but high-impact and really quite easy opener is something I’ve begun referring to as “Indirect Direct”, for lack of a better term. Your run of the mill, general indirect opening – or, engaging a woman in conversation under...

www.girlschase.com

eg

and

and


Also

Having Trouble With Daygame

That could be a problem right there. In my opinion, 99% of daygame results depends on state. It's no coincidence that you see some of the best daygamers out there espouse meditation and place a lot of emphasis on state control in general. James Marshall (who probably more than anyone inspires...

www.skilledseducer.com

From the thread

Does this last one here, is that also indirect direct, I'm thinking probably yes?
@Teevster would these 'indirect direct' work better or worse or same than old school direct?
For daygame incase that variable affects it.
If these don't belong in this thread, feel free to have them removed.

The last example contains an indirect opener followed with an eventual light SOI (statement of interest). The opening is clearly indirect, however, the light SOI brings the interaction closer towards a direct approach - all depending on how you follow up. If you eventually start balancing it out by challenging her, or lightly teas/disqualify, then it can still be considered indirect in the strong sense. Even if you don't, the SOI is so light that you won't be giving away too much frame anyway.

What you refer to "indirect direct" is actual real direct game - i.e. old school direct.

And as you mention, it was mostly used in daygame.

Best,
Teevster

 

[PureGold]

It is an amazing openers, with a 50% success rate (much higher than any neo-direct opener). When it does work, it truly WORKS.

Why wouldn’t work when it does not work? The other 50%

 

[Teevster]

Why wouldn’t work when it does not work? The other 50%

Because not every woman enjoys overly confident/cocky type of guy. Some women find that deadly attractive, some don't.

Best,
Teevster

 

[PureGold]

Because not every woman enjoys overly confident/cocky type of guy. Some women find that deadly attractive, some don't.

Best,
Teevster

Isn’t confidence an universal attractive quality? How some wouldn’t like it?

 

[Teevster]

Isn’t confidence an universal attractive quality? How some wouldn’t like it?

Yes but it confidence can be conveyed in different ways that may or may not suit all girls on a social level (social frame).

 

[PureGold]

Yes but it confidence can be conveyed in different ways that may or may not suit all girls on a social level (social frame).

"If you're going to look at me like that, you should at least talk to me"

Why wouldn’t this linesuit all girls on any type of social level?

 

[Teevster]

Why wouldn’t this linesuit all girls on any type of social level?

Because the last one is ballsy and cocky. Cockyness is one of many forms of displaying/conveying confidence, a form that not all women like on a social level.

Best,
Teevster

 

[PureGold]

Because the last one is ballsy and cocky. Cockyness is one of many forms of displaying/conveying confidence, a form that not all women like on a social level.

Best,
Teevster

And why those set of women that you say wouldn’t like Cockyness on a social level?

 

[PureGold]

a form that not all women like on a social level.

This implies that there are many forms of Confidence. Right, then

What is the form with higher success rate? Above 50%
If there is. Why would I use a form like this with 50%?

 

[StrayDog]

This implies that there are many forms of Confidence. Right, then

What is the form with higher success rate? Above 50%
If there is. Why would I use a form like this with 50%?

If by forms you mean displays. That seems about right. There are different displays of confidence. Whether that display connects with an individual woman depends on a number of variables. That's what calibration is for. Adjusting your display of confidence in a way that increases the likely hood of it connecting with the individual woman you are interacting with. Not speaking for @Teevster here, that's just the way I see it

 

[PureGold]

Well welcomed @StrayDog

Whether that display connects with an individual woman depends on a number of variables.

What are those variables?

If you open a girl with “Hey, you have a great ass I wanted to say hello? -> that is Confidence but it won’t work due to ASD variable

However,
If you open a girl with "If you're going to look at me like that, you should at least talk to me" -> that is Confidence and there is no variable for a girl not liking that unless confidence is not…..lol