RadEng Going All In

[TheChased]

Great Journal radeng! Took me some days, but now I'm done reading it! hahah, actually learned some stuff too, which is great.
I do have some pointers for you if you'd like to hear it. From what I'm reading, it sounds like you're too much of a funny/high energy guy when you're doing night game. Maybe tone it down a little? (This is just what I'm getting from reading your journal). And I hope that you've gotten better at putting in some sexual/chase framing when you're out doing your thang! I really think that's what you need to get those 5% done, really helps with the LMR. I have never gotten LMR when I get her to my/her place at night. I really like teasing and talking about sex, so it comes very natural for me. That helps a lot. Also, when I'm doing night game, I never take their number, I always go for the pull. I hope this can help you. I don't know if you feel so yourself, but I really think that you have improved your game since you've started this journal.

1)Ive been drinking like a fish. I gotta cut that shit out again. Up until July I was doing awesome at sober sarging.

You're not alone there my man.. I have gotten better at not getting really drunk, now I actually like just having some beers, and not go all Hangover 4. Only problem is that it have been like 4 times a week these last two weeks. So I'm going to really cut down on the party-part in my life right now. Really liked your introduction to this journal, could really relate to the drugs part. Hope to read more from you!

Cheers
-TC

 

[ray_zorse]

hey mate

About the getting physical, if she says ANYTHING at all like she's moving house or she did a fitness activity or ANYTHING, my process is to reach out and squeeze her shoulder muscle and say "wow, you must be very strong" or "great, feels like some progress" or whatever, this is often my first touch and occurs in the first few mins, doesn't matter where she is, checkout chicks, baristas etc... you can just see the range of emotions register in their eyes / faces "uhh what is this" "ohh, he's smiling and having fun" "OMG he touched me, I don't know this dude! waaa" "yeah this dude actually doesn't give a fuck actually" "err, yeah I kind of like this, it's different" followed by a big smile and acceptance

Ray

 

[TheChased]

I get physical over the dumbest shit, just to get it out in the air. Yesterday I talked with a girl, and after about 5min, I saw a small scratch on her arm. Smallest shit ever, and I touched her arm and asked how she got it. Obviously she didn't know, but 15min later, she touched me all the time. So yeah, getting physical early is better.

As for the entertainer thing, I am actually hardly that at all. I certainly love being funny and really enjoy comedy. And in seduction, maybe a bit here and there, but most of my interactions are very very chill this year. I come from a very entertainer style reaction seeking background, but I have actually really switched it up this year and been very strong silent type even at bars/clubs. Maybe I allude in here too much to the funny stuff I say and what I think is funny.

Yeah, I was that guy too when I was younger, really had to push my self to not crack jokes all the time and be the funny guy running around doing lame shit just to make people laugh. Some of the shit you've done is really bold and funny tho, and if you don't want the chick, why not have a good time? Haha, really don't mind if you tell us the funny shit you've done. Just had to ask if you do this too often.

Looking forward to read more from you, started reading Ray's journal now!
-TC

 

[journeyman]

Radeng, I love your writing style, I am definetely going to watch your journal. This last post comes off very sincere to me, it's great to see something like that. It seems like you have reached a new level, congrats. I really look forward to reaching the stage where I can walk up to a stranger and attract her with just non verbals.

 

[TheChased]

Great to hear! I'm really taking day-game under considerations now. At least a form of it. I just signed on to a project where I have to be on stand, there I will have more practice going up to strangers and talk. Have been playing around with the idea of going out totally sober too. You are an inspiration!

Hope all goes well with the hottie! Keep your cool, and everything will go alright If not, her loss!

 

[ray_zorse]

Mmm hmm, let's not get overexcited, I thought daygame was a fairly boring, slow and steady process of going from smalltalk to building connection, getting her out on a date and comfortable enough to isolate? Slow and steady is key I feel -- always be opportunistic, always be approaching, getting a lot of numbers and keeping that pipeline in operation, since there are a lot of flakes and FUs and impossible cases where they just don't get comfortable enough before biology takes over and the window closes. Well having said that, there are still times when you think "OMG this shit is awesome, what did I just do?" and times when you get super lucky with an instant lay or fast meet-to-lay or you get a super hotty out, but overall I see it as a pretty boring process with long meet->lay times, maybe that's just due to acclimatization? Nightgame, now there's excitement Anyway, I saw Dude's advice on the oneitis and you've obviously taken it on board, but man I really feel for you and how crushed you will/would be if/when window closes, just prepare yourself mentally b/c not much good happens with 2nd and 3rd dates etc, even if you lay her you'll still be in a kinda bf frame which really sucks rocks. Uhhm dated this Chinese chick a while ago that could have developed into oneitis, she really got under my skin but I missed a window, hurt so bad, she was still communicating when I last checked but I wisely left it alone b/c the effort of dating and getting invested when the deck is stacked against you is too high a price to pay. Are you sure you did not miss a window with your oneitis chick? SURE?
Ray

 

[ray_zorse]

About HB oneitis I have had success with the following procedure: Introduce a game whereby she is to rub massage oil on you intimately, keep giving her instructions so she doesn't miss anywhere, and after a while swap. So you're putting it in & around her labia etc, basically not missing a spot. If necessary do this on multiple occasions until she is comfortable with the game. Then when you judge the moment to be right, just gently yet swiftly pick her up and sit her on your dick (going in raw initially) before she can object. Well, it's best with girls who are more on the petite side.
Ray
PS Another option might be to try and tie her up, tell her she is gonna give you a blowjob with her hands tied behind her back, she will love this. Make sure you have given her a code word "red" and that she understands if she uses it the game is over for the rest of the day. Have her blow you for a bit and then maybe start calling her a slut or having her say "I am a slut and I love to suck dick", maybe slap her face a few times on some pretext, then gently push her backwards and fuck her? If she's sufficiently involved she won't use the codeword, and her ASD is nullified since she was tied up. Why I said bf-frame sucks rocks is it makes these kind of IDGAF shenanigans a bit harder, but I am sure you can do it.

 

[Smurf]

Just stopping in to say I like your journal and I'm following it.

Jake.

 

[TheChased]

If you get HB oneitis and the red head together for a threesome, that would be awesome! hahaha

Awesome that you've stepped to the level where you don't get nervous, even tho you get rejected. Attitude plays a big party in life in general, so it's great to hear you're nailing it!
I don't get why you're not a master in nightgame when you're obviously good at daygame! I've always thought nightgame was easier for fast lays, but I don't have any experience in daygame tho. So I don't have any data on it.

-TC

 

[TheChased]

Actually its totally the opposite man haha. I suck at day game. My nighttime is pretty solid. I pull fairly regularly from night game when I'm really focused on it. It just seems a bit empty to me as I just never have any desire to see any of the girls I fuck again. Also, Ive pulled in tons of night game scenarios and done some pretty crazy shit in night game, Im sure I could get better but my improvement is more incremental now. I stand to gain a lot more by focusing on what I suck at which is day game and dating and starting open relationships.

My mistake then! haha

Could I just ask you a question? How do you handle girls feelings when you date them 2 or 3 times before fucking? I get this feeling of being a total douchebag when it's obvious that the girl want something more.. I have this girl I have been on 2 dates with now, and I'm gonna fuck her next time, but I'm not sure if I want to..(Couldn't bang on date #2 because her roomie came home early...) I can just see it in her that she wants more than sex with me. I've done this before, and I always end up not texting her back and shit after we fucked and then get bad feelings over it afterwards.

 

[Teparus]

If you get HB oneitis and the red head together for a threesome, that would be awesome! hahaha

her:It just wasn't there for me. And to be super honest, I've been really into girls a lot lately. You're the first guy I've hung out with in a long time. It's nothing against you at all, you're so fun. I'm just not interested.

I think you know what you have to do.

 

[ray_zorse]

Hey mate HB redhead is just a standard failed escalation scenario, you really have to nail her on date 1, you can get lucky sometimes but basically if you make out with her and don't do the deed, you're fucked in 90% of cases. Actually, the more into you she is, she harder she crashes due to missed window/failed escalation. Such a shame that. Weird how women's attraction works so differently to men's, haha. What I would suggest is to really look at your escalation game. I'm sure I wrote about this somewhere before but in summary, (1) build compliance from the get-go, (2) go for the pants not the tits, (3) prepare to wash/rinse/repeat over a long time, hours if necessary, (4) never try to convince her, just playfully brush it off and do something else, (5) realize that different women have different triggers, nibbling on her ear, kissing/caressing her neck etc is pretty reliable but keep trying different things until she melts, (6) get investment by having her touch you, unbutton your shirt or even just your cuffs, (7) consider doing takeaways, (8) look for unexpected windows, for example you give up and walk her home, but she spends a long time fiddling with her keys or whatever... means you are to come inside and do the deed, as you built a lot of comfort during the walk home.
Ray

 

[ray_zorse]

PS. Ignore the reasons she gives. They are always bullshit. She doesn't know why she lost attraction, she doesn't understand escalation windows, failed escalation, etc, so she makes up a plausible-sounding reason after the fact, which then becomes the truth (for her). TBH I would not have replied to her text. It's rude but when they act like this they can get fucked as far as I am concerned, also I don't want to cement their bullshit excuse in their mind b/c if I bump into them by accident around town I want to insta-date, build more comfort and try to escalate. Not replying to their text gives a slight advantage in mystery and possibly rudeness -> anger -> more mental investment on her part. Just act like never received it.
Ray

 

[ray_zorse]

Interesting. Admittedly I am not going off a big sample, maybe 2~3 girls in Japan and 3~4 in Australia that I felt a strong connection with and kissed on the lips on the first hangout but never laid despite attempts to set something up... with up to 3 dates but usually just no second date cos they went cold... as compared with just 1 (to my recollection) -- Leticia -- who put out on a subsequent date. But my experience tallies so perfectly with what GC teaches that it's difficult for me to doubt it. Anyway I think your statistics might be biased by the fact you only asked for 2nd dates in a few select cases, whereas I (not having a solid level of abundance) pushed harder in nearly all cases and got excuses, no's or silence.

I personally would make it all about first date sex, I think you sre definitely on the money about not wanting to push hard in an uncalibrated way, but I think you're not taking into account that a lot can change in the course of a date. If she's already making out with you, chances are that she's not going to hurry off for no reason, so you might just be able to spin things out long enough to seal the deal. Basically whatever you were planning to do on date 2, do it on date 1 part 2. That's my opinion anyway. Just tell her she's not allowed to leave, tickle her, whatever but don't fucking let her go w/o a fight (unless it's a takeaway and you have gambled incorrectly).

Chase really cautions against chickening out on that last 5% or getting fatigued and dropping the ball with the rationalization that there will be a date 2. If you assume there will be no date 2 ever (an assumption that IMO would be right in 90% of cases) then you will really think twice about throwing in the towel after you've made out with her!! Don't throw away all that work! And save yourself a lot of stress and worry about date 2!!

It's possible also that sex is basically expected by both parties if it's a nightgame pull, whereas with a daygame pull she will probably be quite out of her comfort zone (especially an insta-date pull) and will need more warming up. Doesn't mean she won't put out, it's just more of a challenge to your escalation game. When you say you get zero LMR from nightgame I think
we might be talking about different seduction scenarios or a different demographic, I usually get LMR, so I think you have to take into account that what you are seeing as a need to build comfort over many dates might just be garden variety LMR.

Ray

PS Having said all that, some people reckon that high value women just won't put out first date and that's what makes them high value. There's something in that, for sure. But even with such women you're best off just persisting like fuck as you'll lose value in her eyes if you fall at the first (or second, third, fourth ...) hurdle. She feels very attractive if you push hard for sex with her, which helps your attainability too.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

In bad things, I have been smoking more weed recently than is good. I really want to be 100% sober, but weed helps me sleep soo much! Im not too worried about it tho. Also, sometimes I let my emotions and imagination get out of control when I am thinking about oneitis. Its shitty, I realize objectively how immature my thoughts are sometimes and how bad it is, but at the same time, feeling those feelings is a bit of guilty pleasure. I just know its not smart at all. Ive been ok and I meditated a lot the last few days which I hadn't done in a long time and am feeling much better.

If I had to pick any vice, it'd be weed. Most of my best naturals are huge potheads and slay tons of bitches high. However, sober gaming is the best and I go out sober 80% of the time (also I do mostly day game now and I do that sober 95% of the time; have had some fun approaches while high as fuck though haha).

If you're gonna smoke, do it when hanging out with friends or doing creative work (indicas for the former, sativas for the latter). Make it a hard rule to go out sober, though. Also, my high dies by ~11:30, so it really doesn't matter anyways, unless you're bringing spliffs with you out to the clubs (not gonna lie, have done that before). If I'm not mass approaching, I just chill at the bar or even stand in the middle of crowds (people really don't even notice and you look like quite an imposing individual when you do it stoically), so being high actually helps center me.

You should PM me sometime; I'd love to crack the code on gaming high and/or working with someone to overcome dependency on it.

- Hector

 

[ProblemSolving]

Anyway, we chilled and she was feeling really sick from a cold and she left and said wed hang sometime during the week(I should have told her id set it up instead of letting her be responsible).

Why should you be responsible? She WILL contact you when she gets needy enough. When she initiates, THEN you set something up. This way you're never chasing and you're never asking for a meet up when she's not hungry to see you.

So she texts me and says she really busy the next day and I don't hear from her the rest of the week.

Whenever you get that need to reach out to her first, you should instill a desire in yourself to meet other girls instead of contacting this one. For whatever reason, you're not on her mind at the moment. No need to panic, direct your energy towards finding other girls until this one comes around again.

I text her on friday, and she takes 3 hours to respond and I ask her what she is doing and she responds shortly that she is studying. I text her the next day to see when she's free again. She takes 5 hours to respond and just asks if I'm free wednesday. It seem uncharacteristically short.

C'mon Radeng you're better than this haha. She's pulling away for whatever reason, and you're chasing now. Cut it out haha.

Stop trying to analyze why she's acting the way she is because the possibilities are endless at this point. Don't waste your energy thinking about it and go approach more girls. When she wants to hang out, she will let you know. Then just be the fun, cool guy that rocks her world in the sack.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Hey mate HB redhead is just a standard failed escalation scenario, you really have to nail her on date 1, you can get lucky sometimes but basically if you make out with her and don't do the deed, you're fucked in 90% of cases. Actually, the more into you she is, she harder she crashes due to missed window/failed escalation. Such a shame that.

Ray

Ray, I am beginning to disagree with this sentiment because I have not experienced this extensively.

Now in this case I think you are right. I think she wanted to be fucked on date 1 and I just didn't step up. However I don't think this is the case most of the time.

I'll just have to look at my stats:
I just counted and this year starting in April I have laid 10 new girls. My only lay last fall was I'm gonna throw in the data and make it 11.

Out of those: 7 were same night pulls. Nearly 0 LMR for all 7. I think one or two had a bit of LMR but not much. 2 were first date lays and 2 were second date + lays.

Soo this is out of about 30-45 dates I'm guessing. 4/45. That's really low. All of these girls were interested.

Out of all of those I only tried to get second dates with probably 5-7 of them and out of those I laid 2.

To me- the data is showing that subsequent dates are a more reliable way to get laid than first dates. I at least made out with all the girls on date 1. They are at least as good a way and I think a lot of those girls would have gone for a date 2. Ateast a lot more than I asked.

I mean admittedly there are things I could probably do to get more 1st date lays but I think the emphasis on it should be removed. I don't think she subconsciously thinks your a pussy for not fucking her, imo she consciously thinks your an asshole for trying to push past her boundaries which I am not completely comfortable doing. idk. I don't think I'm perfect or couldn't improve but there are times I look back on failed escalations and think I should've pushed harder and times when I think damn I should have back the fuck off. I'd rather be first guy everytime. But really id rather be able to recognize when to push and when to delay and make that into a system rather than blanketing everything under "must fuck on first date!"

Oo this is interesting. Before finding GC and super-focusing on the first-date lay, I mostly fucked girls after seeing them 2 or 3 times. I notice a pattern with these girls, too - I wasn't very aggressive and invested more than I should have. They knew I wanted sex but I took my time. It's a good approach for reputation and the ego, but it's not as effective. Why?

1. Puts you more into the BF-zone than you'd probably want to be with most of the girls
2. You're really not as dominant as a guy who does it in just a few hours
3. You're spending time with her that you could be spending with 2 or 3 MORE girls
4. You're not pushing yourself to get faster (i.e., more dominant, sexy, etc)
5. You're investing more than you probably want to emotionally/temporally

If you're okay with all of this and are happy with your sex life, then no biggie, stick with it! And for most guys, that's what's best. But there's something to focusing on first-date lays.

1. You'll have to be more dominant, so overall, you'll become higher value than the guy who takes his time
2. You're going to have more failures, but also more successes. Instead of 2 or 3 dates with one girl, he spends that time with 2 or 3 different women
3. You're very in the Lover category, which is good for a lot of reasons
4. You'll invest less time and emotions, which is always optimal

So, in a way, you are correct. Date-compression is more reliable and stable, but as with anything that is safer and more consistent, it might not be optimal. It all depends on what level you want to be, man!

I'm curious - with the girl that you're really crushin' on, how many dates did you have before fucking? If you have a link to the LR, I'd love to read it.

But the coolest part of this discussion is this - does she think you're a pussy for not fucking her on date one? Yes and no.

Relative to the men who DID fuck her the first time meeting her or on their first date, you are more of a pussy than them. But you may still rock her world and be the man of her dreams after 2 or 3 dates - in that regard, you're not a pussy. But I personally strive to be her most dominant lover all timezz. And when you shag her on date 1, you are in the runnin' for the title. This is why girls go ghost when you escalate to sex on the first date but don't deliver - you chose the hardest but most rewarding path. If you make it, then the man you offered yourself as, Big Pimpin', is the real you. If you don't, well, then she thinks "ah, he SEEMEED like Big Pimpin', but then proved to be just another try-hard. Glad I dodged that one."

Pussiness and dominance is relative to the precedent you set (what you can control) and her experience (what you can't control). When it comes to the precedent I can set, I choose to go all in.

- Hector

 

[ray_zorse]

hey homies

Thinking about HB oneitis... as others pointed out, the dynamic is moving towards chasiness and not in your favour... I think the #1 most important thing here is BE WILLING TO CUT THE CORD, and it sounds like you really are, even though you have to convince yourself of it. So you are fundamentally in a rock-solid position. I think she probably really is keen on you but is either (1) playing you, being scarce and short with you to make you chase, or (2) testing you, seeing if you'll get all needy and chasey the minute she isn't available. She might really be busy, but I don't believe there is a female in existence who can go for a whole hour without checking her phone, unless she's prevented by work or whatever. Usually they also get back to you saying "ohh sorry I couldn't reply because XXX YYY whatever", so if she is repeatedly taking hours to respond, it is a concern.

By the way, do you get the feeling she might have other fuckbuddies? If so it can only be a good thing for you, provided you can man up and avoid getting jealous... but that might be a reason she hasn't been too available (I obviously do not check my phone regularly when I'm with my girlfriend because I prefer to be in the moment). No biggie really, just something to be aware of. Frankly I would LOVE to have a girl with fuckbuddies and a genuinely relaxed attitude to sex, but so far I only have conventional girls who fall for me hard. Anyway, whether it's that she's busy with her work / hobbies, or other fuckbuddies, or that she's just not that into you, my suggested remedy would be the same. Ease up on the phone and text contact, and when you do eventually hangout, just act a bit bored and disinterested... wait until she invests hard and SLOWLY begin to reward it.

There's a chapter about this in Chase's ebook and I honestly think it's one of the most valuable things you could master in seduction, I'm only about 20% of the way towards implementing it, but I do see results. The way to reward her attention and engagement is by subtly rotating your body more towards her, and asking more questions and being more animated. And reversing the process if you see she begins to invest less. The other thing to do, which is another side of the same coin, is when you're hanging out, e.g. at your place, REALLY REMEMBER to reward her with touch and appreciation if she e.g. carries a plate to the kitchen, or whatnot. She really needs to feel the feedback loop in operation, to use Chase's phrase. I reckon she's getting bored and disinterested and withdrawing because she realizes your affection is not conditional upon her behaviour. Meh.

One reason why I suggest to focus on this area a lot is that she sounds like a bit of a spoiled bitch (and I know you love these types -- you were saying so only a few posts back when you were making out with the sorority girl and her friend), nothing wrong with that but she's obviously used to a fair bit of validation and attention from her peers without her really doing much to earn it except laying back and being chilled and directing her valuable attention as appropriate. Not to mention that she sounds quite experienced with guys, and as we all know, social interactions can get to a bit of a zero-sum game especially when competitive personalities are involved. I'd suspect she just isn't happy with her relationships unless the guy is chasing a little bit. Whereas in your case you're actually hoping she's "different" and you can let your hair down with her... uhm don't do it.

Anatman I liked your points regarding the first-date sex. But I'm not really on board with getting high for any reason, I can't really understand the idea of gaming while high because it just makes me go totally into my head (I find it difficult to even order a meal in a restaurant while high because I'm paranoidly wondering what impression I'm making and so on)... granted it affects people differently, and use in small amounts is different from abuse... I used to do a lot of creative work while high, but I have trained myself to not need it, and I actually see better results now that I'm more focused while I'm being creative. Weed use tends to send my brain on long and interesting sidetracks, but impedes the ability to get stuff finished in my view. Also radeng I feel the weed use immediately before sleep might be contributing to your undesirably high mental investment in HB oneitis.

Ray

 

[Lawliet]

Subscribed!
//inb4 youtube lol

Keep it up, bro!
Lawliet

 

[ray_zorse]

Good decision mate.

Unfortunately any FWBs (or open relationships or any similar thing) are going to make you get lazy and have time management issues. To me that's the overriding factor, quite apart from anything else. If you want to get really good you have to have a clear mind and the maximum possible dating window open.

As to this specific situation, it felt to me like HB oneitis wasn't chasing the way she should have, your analysis is probably correct. A great learning experience. It does appear to me that continuing down the current path will involve your contacting her often to set up dates etc, and this is going to get annoying after a while. The other alternative, really limiting your investment, is hard to do and frustrating in my experience, if you can't enjoy her wholeheartedly then NEXT is sensible.

You might want to consider exactly how to do this -- I would try to leave a small window open that she can contact you in the future if she has a change of heart, so not being a COMPLETE asshole about it, but also trying not to give her any closure and to keep her wondering, so from that point of view, just going ghost. I suppose a kind of middle course might be just stop contacting her altogether, respond with long delays, don't suggest any hangouts, and see what she does then.

If you haven't contacted her since "the talk" and you start doing this now, it will clearly set up a lack-of-attention dynamic as a punishment for "the talk" and hopefully not reward her behaviour. Remember that the person who breaks the tension loses, so if you contact her again after the talk it's like agreeing to open r/ship.

Ray