Russia-Ukraine Thread

[DarkKnight]

@Winston Nobody wants nukes dropped on their yard. Deterrence is still a thing.

@climbingup extremely unlikely, how did you come to this?

 

[Invictus]

Hello,

He's okay so far. We're discussing whether it's better to remain in Kiev or try to get out.

I don't have an answer to that, but if Hector decides to move, he'll get help in Poland. I'm talking about south-west PL. If he decides to move, where can I leave contact details? I'll try to send him a PM on these boards, but I don't know if he checks it given the current situation.

EDIT: For some reason I don't see the option to PM
EDIT2: On my old account I see that option. I created the new one to have a fresh start - in the past I used to be a lurker around these parts more than anything, so that's that. Anyway, Hector hasn't been seen since last year according to his profile. How can I leave contact details without writing them here in a way he can see them?

EDIT3: I'll just tag @Chase for visibility - I would also add Hector, but for some reason I can't do that on my mobile.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

@Invictus hey man just PMd you

 

[Invictus]

Confirmed, we're in touch with Hector.

 

[Chase]

Just real quick --

EU is reacting very aggressively towards Russia, basically those "sanctions" are act of war against Russia. The rhetoric is also escalating (a French minister talk about economic war). It looks like the elites want war. Therefore we will have war.

We (ie. Europeans) are fucked. WWIII is coming.

America was goading Russia hard to go into Ukraine for months. It looks like what's happening is part of the plan.

Nordstream-2 is frozen again, and now instead of getting cheap gas from Russia, Germany is going to be forced to pay 2x-3x more for US liquid natural gas coming over on tanker ships. Europe remains bound to the US and NATO, and a new cold war is in play against Russia.

This seems to be what the Western system was really after. It doesn't want a nuke war, because then the elites just end up being kings of a bunch of ash piles.

The RAF will scramble some jets to engage Russia's forces, just in time in my opinion

That would get you a nuke war, with the elites being kings of a bunch of ash piles.

So, seems unlikely.

Chase

 

[Egor]

Beautiful Ukrainian girls are angels now, while Russia loses 5000+ young lads. @Chase how can you peddle these conspiracy theories like they are fact from your position of power?

 

[Spyce D]

What conspiracy theories is he ( @Chase )peddling ?

Beautiful Ukrainian girls are angels now, while Russia loses 5000+ young lads. @Chase how can you peddle these conspiracy theories like they are fact from your position of power?

 

[Chase]

All right, Hector's safely on his way out. He managed to jump on a train to Lviv. He should be in the clear now that he's on the train.

What conspiracy theories is he ( @Chase )peddling ?

+1. Nothing nastier than someone hitting you with a shame-label (racist, sexist, homophobe, conspiracy theorist, etc.) instead of making a measured rebuttal to whatever he views as incorrect.

(then on top of that there is the implication that "if you have a position I regard as powerful, you should only speak and act in ways I approve of." Honestly that approach has been pretty effective at helping to flip almost every corporation, institution, and celebrity into signaling all the virtuous things in unison, at least publicly. Nobody wants to be 'disapproved of' by those wielding the shame-gun)

Anyway, we can thank the decline of rhetoric education in Western schools and the everywhere-promotion of tribalism and emotionalism for that.

 

[climbingup]

If I may ask, how will the countries around Ukraine handle the refugee crisis? I read on Reddit/social media about men travelling to the border to specifically look for ukranian girlfriends from the refugees. Absolutely shocking in my opinion

 

[Chase]

If I may ask, how will the countries around Ukraine handle the refugee crisis?

There are maps showing refugee flows:



Another map I saw placed an additional 125,000 in Russia, though I believe most of those fled earlier, prior to Russia's entry into the war, to escape the Ukrainian shelling of the Donbass.

Aside from that, I think it's probably too early to predict how Ukrainian refugees will affect things in Europe.

How long will the war take? How much destruction vs. not will there be? How many more Ukrainians will leave before it's over, and how willing (or not) will they be to return when it is? Has Europe lost its taste for refugees? (Sweden, the humanitarian super power, has amusingly passed on taking any Ukrainian refugees)

I read on Reddit/social media about men travelling to the border to specifically look for ukranian girlfriends from the refugees. Absolutely shocking in my opinion

Oh, how the tides have changed!








Remember back when it was 90% young male immigrants?



Nothing stays the same!

 

[Don Giovanni]

If I may ask, how will the countries around Ukraine handle the refugee crisis? I read on Reddit/social media about men travelling to the border to specifically look for ukranian girlfriends from the refugees. Absolutely shocking in my opinion

Haha I would expect something like this…
I was in Ukraine once and these were the most beautiful girls I’ve seen so far.

I am in Budapest right now and we get around 7.000 refugees per day. That means girls too. This way my mind goes “Yay” but then I remember they’re fleein fucking war and my mind goes “You immoral pig” haha

 

[climbingup]

Haha I would expect something like this…
I was in Ukraine once and these were the most beautiful girls I’ve seen so far.

I am in Budapest right now and we get around 7.000 refugees per day. That means girls too. This way my mind goes “Yay” but then I remember they’re fleein fucking war and my mind goes “You immoral pig” haha

Those guys think they've found a shortcut. Don't they know that as soon as she gets stable, more than likely she's going to leave. It will end up being like an episode of 90 day fiancé. Not to mention those who have partners who are still alive and in Ukraine. I wonder how many refugees will end up going back to Ukraine after the war.

I guess there will always be guys looking for girlfriends in refugee situations like the one now.

 

[Winston]

America was goading Russia hard to go into Ukraine for months. It looks like what's happening is part of the plan.

Yep, that was I thought as well. USA probably wanted Russia to attack Ukraine, that was part ot the plan.

In the media narrative, every politicians insist on the word "unprovoked russian agression", of course the truth is probably the opposite of that. They put Russia in a corner and leave it no other choice, they wanted to make Russia looks like the bad guys. And they want a crisis, a crisis on which they can blame all the coming economic problems, like inflation.

And now EU is acting as a quasi sovereign state, they use this crisis to accelerate the creation of one big EU state and to remove the last chunk of sovereignity of the traditional states.

And I bet they will opportunistically juggle between the war narrative and the covid narrative (I cannot wait for that new dangerous variant coming somewhere this year!) to strenghten the yoke on Westerns citizens.

For people who might think this is complotism: wherever there is power, there is machination. It's very naive to think those in power act transparently and benevolently. It is an historical and sociological fact that power is intrinsically linked to machinations. "Complotism" is just reading and decoding social dynamics unfolding at the highest level of politics.

 

[Will_V]

I get so pissed off when every media, social media tries to portray Putin as a madman psychopat, like that is the only reason why he invaded Ukraine. Surely this is not the case and the manipulation again is so obvious.

I have trouble reading the news, I just can’t trust them a single bit anymore. I listened to Ben Shapiro to get some understanding on this situation, but beyond this I’m clueless.

Are there any specific sources you get your info from @Will_V and @Chase (or anyone else)? Anything you recomend?

I think Chase gave a great answer. The problem is there is very little information out there that isn't partisan. Information on the internet isn't regulated, and often, even when you find stuff that accepts one part of reality, it will reject another.

The only way is to cross examine all the evidence against eachother. One good approach is to begin with history, since all the great conflicts in the world originated hundreds or even thousands of years ago, like a volcano they erupt every now and then, looking like something isolated, but connected deep down to the core conflict. Many of them (if not most) are in fact religious conflicts originating in biblical times. And historical information is not policed as strongly as the narrative on unfolding events - most of the time anyway.

For example, if you know something of the history of the last half a century between the USA and Russia, it's very difficult not to be suspicious of what is happening now in Ukraine. The US has been surrounding Russia with missiles and attempting to strangle it in every way possible behind the scenes, even as people thought the US and Russia had virtually nothing going on between them, trying to cut them off economically from the rest of Europe, and repeatedly rejecting attempts by Russia to develop mutually acceptable disarmament treaties. The US intelligence agencies have meddled in so many governments, funded so many revolutions, and created so many conflicts, from the Middle East to South and Central America, Asia, and Europe, that once you understand that it would seem unrealistic for it not to have been the case here.

Like a detective, you have to create a picture that spans across as large a timeline as possible, with as few internal contradictions as possible, and then you will have something that is probably close to the truth.

Unfortunately that means you have to spend a good amount of time collecting and cross examining information, but that's the only way to get to the reality of things. Most people don't have the time or interest, and that's why they are easy to lead astray.

 

[POCCN9lHNH]

 

[climbingup]

Crazy Russia were winning before but now it seems Ukraine has turned the tables

 

[Winston]

Crazy Russia were winning before but now it seems Ukraine has turned the tables

That is the Western narrative.

In 1939, Germany took 1 month to invade Poland, with the help of the USSR. And this military campaign is universally considered as the textbook blitzkrieg.

Ukraine is a bigger country than Poland and it has been only 2 weeks.

 

[POCCN9lHNH]

 

[metalbird]

This site still amazes me from time to time. In my day to day IRL, I feel like I'm the only human in America who thinks these things. Then I come here, and people are talking about it, they get it, and they're speaking the truth. Thanks guys. Gives me hope.

My question is, what do we, as individuals, do? What choices can we make in our daily lives? Or at least, how can we orient ourselves to maximize our happiness and success?

Move to China?
Accept hedonism and just go party?
Adopt a K-selection strategy and just go sire a bunch of children, hope one of them has better luck?
Try to "play the game" and accumulate wealth from the mistakes of the more ignorant or cowardly?
Go fight some physical violence somewhere?
Buy a farm or a missile silo and stockpile it with rations and solar pannels?
Create educational material to try to educate or enlighten people?
Start or back a political movement?

It kills me that I believe I understand certain things that are going on in my world much better than 99% of the people around me, but I either don't know what to do with that information, or I don't seem to be in a position to profit or take advantage of it.

I know @Chase and some other members here are reasonable well-off/wealthy. What strategy are you guys taking?

 

[POCCN9lHNH]