Seduction = Doing Less, Not More.

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

but he always added a caveat: "unless you are TVA_Oslo (me) and run sex talk (nobody was doing that back then -

are you talking about forum posts?

because i have all his courses and books and 60 never mentions you in those.

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

CJ who focused on sexual framing

holy shiet this brings back memories.

all the way back in 2014 i was working directly with captain jack to learn this style.

what a massive waste of time and money that was.

but CJ is amazing guy and was a net positive on my life overall but his style of game never ever made any sense to me.

i remember he was famous for some strawberry routine and rings on fingers ....holy shiet time flies....cannot believe all that stuff was almost 10 years ago

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

No

Many great contributors don't make products because most are "pu-practitioners", not coaches!

-Teevster

Sometimes i wish more made products and sold it

Guys would happily pay for it

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

holy shiet this brings back memories.

all the way back in 2014 i was working directly with captain jack to learn this style.

what a massive waste of time and money that was.

but CJ is amazing guy and was a net positive on my life overall but his style of game never ever made any sense to me.

i remember he was famous for some strawberry routine and rings on fingers ....holy shiet time flies....cannot believe all that stuff was almost 10 years ago

How does sexual framing not make sense lol

I've used the strawberry routine a lot and it gets results

 

[Teevster]

what are your thoughts on my theory that Sleazy success was mainly due to his amazing ability to get on sexual state in nightclubs that he had because of his decades of meditation.

He was a master at meditation and has an insane state control. He always looked entranced in field. His meditations and meditation skills most likely played a role.

after reading sleazy stories i spent months trying to lean that style and this led me to a a guy who used to be called illuminatus on sedfast

Illuminatus! I remember him. He used to go under the username of Corvette! I miss that guy!

Well most "sleazy" material that was actually useful was posted on mASF. His books don't teach you much. For some reason, one day he decided to screw everything he knew, and teach a perverted version of game (looks money status) which ironically never really defined him or his success (he was never rich, mostly unemployed, had a limited social circle, no social value, and although was tall and had an interesting face, was never good looking in the strong sense).

Funnily, he turned into the whole "looks money status" during the time he stopped going out, after entering a long term relationship (that did not turn well, which might explain the changes in him!).

so do you agree this was sleazy's secret to success with physical style?

Sleazy's secret was that he was the most patient seducer on the planet. He would wait for the right girls, approach at the right moment, and if it wasn't there, he would create it but he would take the time he need!

People believe Sleazy just went over to girls and just cavemanned them. True his interactions were usually short. But where he spent most of his time, was all the "pre-work" prior to his approach.

He was THE SNIPER.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Sometimes i wish more made products and sold it

Guys would happily pay for it

They wouldn't. If you only knew what the "market" wants, you'd cry and depress.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

i remember he was famous for some strawberry routine and rings on fingers ....holy shiet time flies....cannot believe all that stuff was almost 10 years ago

Strawberry fields.

Never used it myself. But I know many liked it.

No wonder you struggle understanding my style if you struggle understanding sexual framing.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

are you talking about forum posts?

because i have all his courses and books and 60 never mentions you in those.

Forum posts yes. We interacted a lot on forums (mASF and private forums) as well as in private. We did at some point talk about making a product together, but yeah, mostly just brainstorming.

-Teevster

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

They wouldn't. If you only knew what the "market" wants, you'd cry and depress.

-Teevster

Actually yeah in 2023, it would be tough to sell stuff like that given the rise of red pill, black pill etc but good marketing and positioning can help a bit

But it definitely would have sold hot cakes pre covid. It depends on the marketing. "Market" what they want. Give them what they need

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Funnily, he turned into the whole "looks money status" during the time he stopped going out,

yeah anyone blackpill basically i know they never go out.

i honestly have no patience for blackpill guys.

to me blackpill guys are the flat earters of the dating community.

anyone with eyes who actually goes out will see that NO it absoultelly is NOT just looks. not even close.

and i have legit male model looks so if anyone would benefir frim success with women being 100% looks it would be me.

i know short ugly naturals who fuck way more girls then me who is tall have has literally the face of model.

so yeah im not suprised sleazy went blackpill when he stopped going out.

it's impossible to be blackpill if you actually go out in filed regularly.

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Sleazy's secret was that he was the most patient seducer on the planet. He would wait for the right girls, approach at the right moment, and if it wasn't there, he would create it but he would take the time he need!

People believe Sleazy just went over to girls and just cavemanned them. True his interactions were usually short. But where he spent most of his time, was all the "pre-work" prior to his approach.

He was THE SNIPER.

what was his quality like?

reading sleazy stories he seems to always go these punk rock venues and also seemed to spend a lot of time in gay clubs.

so i always suspected his quality was bad like 6s mostly.

i say this because in my experience the hottest girls go to high end/mainstream venues.

these punk/rock places in my experience the quality is much lower.

 

[Mr Mistah]

I would not call Sleazy's old game "caveman" style

By caveman I mean his game was mostly focused on raising buying temperature fast.

Screening was of course important from what he says in Sleazy Stories.

I think he also mentioned being a tall good looking lad or thereabouts.

This however sounds quite different from 60 who isn't trying to raise buying temperature fast.

His game sounds more slow burn and with less fancy footwork.

I feel like as the game evolved we kind of got swept up in the wave of 2nd gen verbals that we lost some recipes around physical game/ sexual tension.

Don't get me wrong I think sex talk and your gambits are revolutionary and I've used them a lot to set the right frames.

However talking/ having a high verbal IQ doesn't come naturally to me - building tension and seductive listening does... hence me being drawn to 60, ijjjji, Cosy etc.

There were a few people that were deeply into that whole trend:

- PerfectMoxie
- TheLetter
- 60_Years_of_Challenge
- Kinethi[c]harm (a norwegian physical game legend)
- Sleazy (RIP)

Would love to hear more abou these dudes... maybe apart from Sleazy who I figured was more focused on picking targets & raising BT

Also if 60 was against fancy verbals in exception to your sextalk what was his consistency like compared to yours?

He seemed to pre empt things like ASD, resistance while also communicating discretionary frames by creating Its On Moments i.e mutual escalation physically.

Isnt this the exact thing thay your sex talk strives to do?

Can we switch sex talk with IOM/micro escalations to get the same result?

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

He was a master at meditation and has an insane state control.

what about sexual state/horniness specifically.

you yourself have talked baout how key that is for physical game.

i remember your dancflorr series of articles talked about this.

how was sleazy when it comes to sexual state/horniness?

do you think he was way better then most guys in his ability to enter such a state when in field?

 

[Teevster]

what was his quality like?

reading sleazy stories he seems to always go these punk rock venues and also seemed to spend a lot of time in gay clubs.

so i always suspected his quality was bad like 6s mostly.

i say this because in my experience the hottest girls go to high end/mainstream venues.

these punk/rock places in my experience the quality is much lower.

The quality of his girls was pretty good. I haven't seen him pull anything ugly.

He lived in Eastern Berlin, so go figure Most of his girls were East berliners - "altnerative" girls, although he was not limited to that stereotype. Remember that half of london/berlin is like that. Different demography and you cannot compare them to say American metropolises - Especially (East) Berlin which really is its own thing.

i say this because in my experience the hottest girls go to high end/mainstream venues.

Generally yes, unless you live in London, Berlin or Paris. For instance, the world's most selective club (Berghain) is a techno alternative venue.

He and I both loved hanging in gay-clubs. You can find real gold in gay clubs. That is a FACT.

-Teevster

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

You can find real gold in gay clubs. That is a FACT.

wtf?

are you honestly saying that you believe the hottest girls in the nightlife are found in gay clubs?

is that honestly what you are saying?

if yes, have you gamed in north america?

I have never been to a gay venue in 10+ years in the nightlife but i love the nightlife and have gamed in huge nightlife cities like los angeles, miami, vegas and this just does not sound right at all to me.

in my experience the hottest girls are in high end mainstream venues and you can also find super hot girls in venues that have college/student night or things like that.

 

[Teevster]

This however sounds quite different from 60 who isn't trying to raise buying temperature fast.

His game sounds more slow burn and with less fancy footwork.

60: "I want to be able to get a chick to lick my bum in a bathroom after 10 minutes.

I will say no more

feel like as the game evolved we kind of got swept up in the wave of 2nd gen verbals that we lost some recipes around physical game/ sexual tension.

Don't get me wrong I think sex talk and your gambits are revolutionary and I've used them a lot to set the right frames.

However talking/ having a high verbal IQ doesn't come naturally to me - building tension and seductive listening does... hence me being drawn to 60, ijjjji, Cosy etc.

Yeah well, no offense taken.

I personally love their style of game, and in periods I love playing around with it. I think it is a totally legit way of doing things and I wouldn't mind people discussing it again.

I guess the reason behind sexual "verbal" take-over from that crowd was accidental, namely that I was younger and most likely to stick around, compared to them.

Sometimes, things are just accidental.

Was style of game does not exclude another.

Would love to hear more abou these dudes... maybe apart from Sleazy who I figured was more focused on picking targets & raising BT

Can't remember the stuff they wrote 10+ years ago. So sorry... I simply can't remember old quality posters. Maybe @Chase can enlighten you. You know, after almost 15 years on forums, you simply can't remember everything you read.

Also if 60 was against fancy verbals in exception to your sextalk what was his consistency like compared to yours?

I think there is most nuance here. He wasn't against "fancy verbals". He was against the whole "clowney" approach to game that was populare during that era. Because being a dancing monkey would kill all the tension.

Also, no talking at all will almost always generate more sexual tension than talking. Which is good. The problem is... not every situation, will allow you to do exactly that. Hence some screening is required.

Like everything... pros and cons.

He seemed to pre empt things like ASD, resistance while also communicating discretionary frames by creating Its On Moments i.e mutual escalation physically.

Isnt this the exact thing thay your sex talk strives to do?

Can we switch sex talk with IOM/micro escalations to get the same result

Sure an IOM will reduce some ASD, but it will mostly qualify her while establishing comfort.

ASD busters are aimed at busting... ASD.

Some ASD may be reduced through qualification (such as IOMs), but his main tool against ASD was.... isolation and discret isolation (like most physical gamers).

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

what about sexual state/horniness specifically.

you yourself have talked baout how key that is for physical game.

i remember your dancflorr series of articles talked about this.

how was sleazy when it comes to sexual state/horniness?

do you think he was way better then most guys in his ability to enter such a state when in field?

He was calm and relaxed but horny. Always in control. Not the "young kid going nuts" type of vibe.

I do meditate but nowhere at his level. I usually just cut down on fapping and focus on a healthy lifestyle (health food etc).

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

wtf?

are you honestly saying that you believe the hottest girls in the nightlife are found in gay clubs?

is that honestly what you are saying?

if yes, have you gamed in north america?

I have never been to a gay venue in 10+ years in the nightlife but i love the nightlife and have gamed in huge nightlife cities like los angeles, miami, vegas and this just does not sound right at all to me.

in my experience the hottest girls are in high end mainstream venues and you can also find super hot girls in venues that have college/student night or things like that.

You can find some of the hottest girls in certain gaybars yes. Most gay men work in the fashion industry and thus know many hot girls. Also lots of gay men work as flight attendants, hair-dressers, etc... and have generally tons of female coworkers (that are hot - hairdressers can be hot, so can models, so can flight attendants). Also gay men usually have tons of (hot) female friends.

This is no secret.

How about you test out a few gay venues and find out

-Teevster

PS: I do agree that high end venues tend to have a higher concentration of hot girls. I tend to go only for high end and gay venues lately.
Some of my favourite venues currently.

https://www.instagram.com/silencioclub/ (David Lynch's private club)

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[Skills]

By caveman I mean his game was mostly focused on raising buying temperature fast.

Screening was of course important from what he says in Sleazy Stories.

I think he also mentioned being a tall good looking lad or thereabouts.

This however sounds quite different from 60 who isn't trying to raise buying temperature fast.

His game sounds more slow burn and with less fancy footwork.

I feel like as the game evolved we kind of got swept up in the wave of 2nd gen verbals that we lost some recipes around physical game/ sexual tension.

Don't get me wrong I think sex talk and your gambits are revolutionary and I've used them a lot to set the right frames.

However talking/ having a high verbal IQ doesn't come naturally to me - building tension and seductive listening does... hence me being drawn to 60, ijjjji, Cosy etc.

Would love to hear more abou these dudes... maybe apart from Sleazy who I figured was more focused on picking targets & raising BT

Also if 60 was against fancy verbals in exception to your sextalk what was his consistency like compared to yours?

He seemed to pre empt things like ASD, resistance while also communicating discretionary frames by creating Its On Moments i.e mutual escalation physically.

Isnt this the exact thing thay your sex talk strives to do?

Can we switch sex talk with IOM/micro escalations to get the same result?

I never lost it, i have done BOTH the last 5 years or so, before that the screening, and micro escalations and yes a lot of my lays are none verbal saying almost nothing, just like 60 describes... the thing is, you can not really put on lay reports for obvious reasons, there is nothing to teach... again, this style of game may come back, clubs are getting super physical like back then, crossing my fingers...but again you can combine both.... those guys including 60 have not been in the field for YEARS... aroon sleazy is a waste of dudu...he is now a kj, women hating troll... his last book on club game is pupu...

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

He was calm and relaxed but horny.

this is interesting.

it's crazy how underrated horniness/sexual state when to me its literally the #1 key to anything.

all my asperger issues dissapear when im in sexual state.

i can act instcitively without overthinking.

but in the community its a subject that is not given the attention it deserves.

In his video course that i listen to weekly 60 says horniness/sexual state is by far the most important thing when going out and illuminatus from sedfast once wrote that the main difference between guys who got laid in nightclubs or not is that the guys who got laid could get into sexual state consistently in the chaos of the nightlife.

ijjj also talked about this a lot. going as far as saying that the most important thing he looked for is how horny he felt for the girl when he saw her in field and would focus on looking for that.

all this matches my experience, my best most memorable moments in field where when i was able to enter sexual state.

but it's weird how no one really seems to talk about this in the community.