Are we retarded for doing cold approach?

[Water_Polo]

What's your point? I still can escalate even if I opened for networking reasons. What is your goal. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you have a point?

I'm telling you, when I approached people with the intent of "getting laid" I was seen as the creepy guy. There's NOTHING precluding me from escalating a chick once she shows interest. It doesn't have to be from the open. You can open "for social reasons" and STILL escalate. One does not preclude the other. What is your POINT?

Point is you're in a better position than you realize if they're this receptive from jump. Which is it? You describe cold approach as being amazing because stunners are gushing, hot girls wanting to give you their numbers, girls showing interest, and now you're saying that they think you're creepy.

If the creepy "intent" guy was a while ago and not recently, then congrats you changed and had a glow up. If you're getting mixed signals that's more or less where I was in the beginning. Figuring out how to get more of the hot girls gushing and trying to give you their number is where you want to be, it is confusing though. Most standard mode if thought is that it's behavior which I'm not a big fan of. It does matter but it's a little overrated. But the networking stuff isn't necessary if their as keen as you're describing in person, but there's only so much I can possibly know without being there to see what's actually going on.

 

[bgwh]

Point is you're in a better position than you realize if they're this receptive from jump. Which is it? You describe cold approach as being amazing because stunners are gushing, hot girls wanting to give you their numbers, girls showing interest, and now you're saying that they think you're creepy.

If the creepy "intent" guy was a while ago and not recently, then congrats you changed and had a glow up. If you're getting mixed signals that's more or less where I was in the beginning. Figuring out how to get more of the hot girls gushing and trying to give you their number is where you want to be, it is confusing though. Most standard mode if thought is that it's behavior which I'm not a big fan of. It does matter but it's a little overrated. But the networking stuff isn't necessary if their as keen as you're describing in person, but there's only so much I can possibly know without being there to see what's actually going on.

What is your point? What are you trying to accomplish? What is your goal? Why are you telling me to change my entire life? Why are you so into this?

1) I get benefits other than banging chicks from approaching socially. I am not doing this for pickup. I have an entire lifestyle and even income that centers around it.

2) Even I didn't. What is your point? Why would it matter if I could drop the networking angle and adopt a "I'm picking up chicks" angle (which I already don't want to do for a gazillion other reasons).

As I said, this work for me, puts me in the right mindset, and aside from having no downside, I get benefits other than picking up chicks. Why would I change it because some random dude on the internet tells me "I can drop it". Why?

Figuring out how to get more of the hot girls gushing and trying to give you their number is where you want to be, it is confusing though

It's nothing confusing, it's just auto-ejection. The single most common issue with guys. I know how to escalate, i'm not new to escalation, just new to opportunities in this context. Auto-ejection happens to everyone, regardless of their approach. I won't magically auto-eject less if I drop the networking. Auto-ejection happens when you're not used to hot girls showing you interest in a given context. Simple awareness and continuing to meet girls in that context, until you stop doing it is the solution.

But I know what's happening here... you want to take credit for "bringing awareness". We all know dude, you didn't invent the concept of not auto-ejecting. The site is full of articles on auto-ejection as is this forum. You're not informing or educating anyone on anything. My own journal says this is my next step of evolution. I'm aware. What is your point? Do you want to take credit for "bringing awareness"? What's your point.

 

[Water_Polo]

What is your point? What are you trying to accomplish? What is your goal? Why are you telling me to change my entire life? Why are you so into this?

1) I get benefits OTHER than banging chicks from approaching socially. I am NOT doing this for pickup. I have an entire lifestyle and even income that centers around it.

2) EVEN IF I didn't. WHAT'S YOUR POINT? Why would it matter if I could drop the socizlizing and start hitting on everyone (which I already don't want to do for a gazillion other reasons). What's the downside of making friends and contacts? I just made super powerful business contacts from a girl I cold approached. I am already planning business projects with them.

How is it better to either bang a girl, or get no value from the approach? How does that make any sense whatsover? I can still escalate the ones that want to be picked up, while making friends/connections with the other ones. What is your goal? Why are you trying to convince me to go around hitting on random people (instead of socializing). What is your goal? Do you have a goal other than telling people what to do?



Thank you captain obvious. You discovered auto-ejection. The single most common issue with guys. It happens to everyone, regardless of their approach. I won't magically auto-eject less if I drop the networking. Auto-ejection happens when you're not used to hot girls showing you interest in a given context. Simple awareness and continuing to do approach girls until it stops is the solution.

I'm just going to continue approaching, awareness is half the battle. Overtime I'll eventually catch myself in the moment auto-rejecting and go "no, don't do that".

But I know what's going to happen there. You'll take credit for it. "Like I told him not to auto-eject, therefore I take credit". We all know dude, you didn't invent the concept of not auto-ejecting. The site is full of article on auto-ejection as is this forum. You're not informing or educating anyone on anything.

lol not looking for credit on anything, couldn't care less. original point was about clarifying the discrepancy between your cold approach experience and don juan where you said that cold approach was great because stunners were gushing. glad you're getting business out of it but i think he meant the original question in response to pickup, where imo stunners gushing from a random cold approach isn't common. that's all, lmao. im simply relaying that lots of positive experiences from doing a cold approach like you originally described is uncommon, especially as a beginner.

 

[bgwh]

lol not looking for credit on anything, couldn't care less. original point was about clarifying the discrepancy between your cold approach experience and don juan where you said that cold approach was great because stunners were gushing. glad you're getting business out of it but i think he meant the original question in response to pickup, where imo stunners gushing from a random cold approach isn't common. that's all, lmao. im simply relaying that lots of positive experiences from doing a cold approach like you originally described is uncommon, especially as a beginner.

Ok then, we agree. My only issue is you start telling me what to do in my own life, and even called my motivational strategies autistic, and unnecessary.

As for guys getting girls gushing over them and easily hooking stunners as beginners in cold approach, yes, this is almost unheard of. Which is why I think cold approach pickup is inefficient for beginners. There's this sadistic vein in pickup where it says you have to go through massive pain and hardship, and I don't see the reason. Why not play on easy mode, you can always transition into hardcore pickup later when you're more calibrated. Why start off beginners on hard mode where you approach with the goal of getting a lay from a random stranger on the street.

Btw, cold approach simply means "talking to strangers". It doesn't mean trying to pickup strangers. That's "cold approach pickup". Where you approach with the specific intent of picking up girls, that is your intent before you've said a word. If you approach strangers to be social, that's still cold approach.

 

[Water_Polo]

Ok then, we agree. My only issue is you start telling me what to do in my own life, and even called my motivational strategies autistic, and unnecessary.

As for guys getting girls gushing over them and easily hooking stunners as beginners in cold approach, yes, this is almost unheard of. Which is why I think cold approach pickup is inefficient for beginners. There's this sadistic vein in pickup where it says you have to go through massive pain and hardship, and I don't see the reason. Why not play on easy mode, you can always transition into hardcore pickup later when you're more calibrated. Why start off beginners on hard mode where you approach with the goal of getting a lay from a random stranger on the street.

Btw, cold approach simply means "talking to strangers". It doesn't mean trying to pickup strangers. That's "cold approach pickup". Where you approach with the specific intent of picking up girls, that is your intent before you've said a word. If you approach strangers to be social, that's still cold approach.

ok cool, sounds like you've got a way of doing cold approach that you're comfortable that works for you. im glad, hoping you have a lot of success w it in the future bro. im gonna go ahead and delete this account because I cant be fucked to have these kinds of conversations anymore but at least we could agree puas dont get stunners lol. take care, best of luck.

 

[Will_V]

I don't get these reactions when I approach them with the intent to pick them up though. Which is why I'm fond of the hybrid system idea: open for networking reasons, and if a girl is clearly into me, transition into pickup.

How do you find it when it comes time to transition from offering networking opportunities into pickup?

I've never approached while projecting any intention besides wanting to get to know her, because as I understand it, when you offer something she wants beyond your sexual or conversational value, she immediately sees sex as something that puts her access to that thing at risk (since girls are well aware that guys who want to have sex with them usually drop investment fast once they've taken her to bed).

This is why guys that show provider value, or long-term value in general, tend to get long-gamed, and she'll try to stretch the dating period as long as possible, to maximize his investment and minimize the risk he'll drop her (which is a very good and effective strategy for her). And that's if she's willing to trade sex for whatever he's offering at all.

The good thing about coming in with nothing but sexual value is that you are the guy she has fun with without putting anything in her life or her world of opportunities at risk.

In general I find that the better you can navigate the approach while keeping your offer as close as possible to just sexual value, the easier it is to take her to bed. But of course, since she's not in a sexual state or sold on you when you approach in the day, it's best to supplement it with good fundamentals and a presentation as a classy, stylish, socially adept guy, so that you offer a baseline of social value off the bat while she warms up to you sexually.

 

[bgwh]

How do you find it when it comes time to transition from offering networking opportunities into pickup?

I've never approached while projecting any intention besides wanting to get to know her, because as I understand it, when you offer something she wants beyond your sexual or conversational value, she immediately sees sex as something that puts her access to that thing at risk (since girls are well aware that guys who want to have sex with them usually drop investment fast once they've taken her to bed).

This is why guys that show provider value, or long-term value in general, tend to get long-gamed, and she'll try to stretch the dating period as long as possible, to maximize his investment and minimize the risk he'll drop her (which is a very good and effective strategy for her). And that's if she's willing to trade sex for whatever he's offering at all.

The good thing about coming in with nothing but sexual value is that you are the guy she has fun with without putting anything in her life or her world of opportunities at risk.

In general I find that the better you can navigate the approach while keeping your offer as close as possible to just sexual value, the easier it is to take her to bed. But of course, since she's not in a sexual state or sold on you when you approach in the day, it's best to supplement it with good fundamentals and a presentation as a classy, stylish, socially adept guy, so that you offer a baseline of social value off the bat while she warms up to you sexually.

I only recently started this stuff. I wasn't even expecting to get to this point this quickly, I assumed it would take months to just get rid of AA.

As for the specific technique... There's a lot of approaches, as there are a lot of social circle game teachers and systems.

 

[AspiringStoic]

@Will_V

I think there is a big disconnect here when it comes to @bgwh. Many people who skim through his posts and journal and not read it carefully, miss what he is actually doing.

They see the parts where he says "I have zero AA" "Stunners are hooking hard" "I got over AA in 2 months etc" and they might think what the hell, I am struggling how does this guy do this?

I am not saying that @bgwh is misrepresenting anything. He very clearly outlines that he is not approaching girls to "pick them up". He is endorsing xyz activity he does. So its not his fault.

But sometimes when he says I literally have zero AA or when he says I got over AA so quickly it can be misleading because in pickup when we talk about approach anxiety we presume it is anxiety to talk to her when your goal is to take the interaction in the romantic/sexual direction. Not talking to them to convince them to join xyz activity. They are VERY VERY different.

Right after the pandemic for work I had to do something similar. We were shooting a bunch of YT videos and we had to get a lot of girls to be a part of them and give us interviews and sample some products. A few of us were tasked with going out to shopping districts and talking to girls and getting them to be part of the video.

When doing that I also had almost zero AA. Because the main difference is your "ego" is not involved. No rejection is personal. Your just trying to promote a product that is not a part of your identity. While doing this activity I approached huge groups of 7-8 girls, real stunners, all kinds of mixed groups etc with no anxiety.

But even the most amazing pickup guys would not be able to approach like that when they are doing pickup. Because the intention is very different and that is what makes it hard.

So saying I have zero AA needs to be qualified.

More accurately for @bgwh it is:

"I have no AA when I talk to girls with the intention of promoting xyz"

The statement I have zero AA by itself would lead most people to believe that he can approach any girl and even the stunners with the intent of picking them up and when he says the stunners are gushing it all gets very misleading.

 

[Will_V]

I only recently started this stuff. I wasn't even expecting to get to this point this quickly, I assumed it would take months to just get rid of AA.

Fair enough if you want to shake off AA, it's helpful at the start to know you can go up and talk to these girls and just be around them.

I think a lot of AA and rejections comes down to trying to go way too direct, especially verbally - I usually keep the first 20 seconds or so basically the same as I would if I was meeting a coworker or something. Warm, friendly, with very open and relaxed body language, and projecting a sort of wandering curiosity rather than intention.

What I find bridges the gap between opening like that and getting sexual/showing intent, is gradually (in the first 20-30 seconds) turning the conversation from something very light, such as where she's going or what job she has or something about her presentation and appearance, toward deeper questions about what kind of girl she is. It's a pretty subtle thing but it changes the dynamic of the conversation from 'chit chat' to 'I'm interested in you'. Even without any sexual frame, it introduces excitement and tension as she expresses the things she wants other people to know about her, and looks for my reaction. And then we build rapport as we share things about ourselves - I always make sure to talk about myself a little bit in the same context that she's doing.

During this I'll gradually lower my energy from very friendly to something with a little more 'bass' - smiling less, longer eye contact, etc, like I'm more focused on something I like in her. She feels a little more tension at this point even though the vibe is still very friendly, and subconsciously she's starting to engage sexually with her body language, but it's extremely subtle.

On an approach I usually don't push it much more than that, I'll tell her I've got to go but I like that she's XYZ and I'd like to meet her again sometime, going back halfway to the higher energy vibe that we started with.

That's basically how I like to meet girls and how it's most effective for me. Nothing too direct or pushy, nothing wacky or weird, just a guy whose eye she caught, and who has a little bit more confidence than everyone else to come and make that contact. I just want her to come away thinking "I liked talking to him .. and I felt something else too .. who is he?".

 

[ChrisXKiss]

But even the most amazing pickup guys would not be able to approach like that when they are doing pickup. Because the intention is very different and that is what makes it hard.

It may sound weird, but I have noticed that when I approach a girl I find hot for any other reason apart from pick up, my whole vibe ends up being quite more needy, because I know I would prefer picking her up and don't care much about any other exchange between us.

So I've had situations that I go up to girls for warm up, or to just to talk socially and it feels very off. I understand the less anxiety because you are not picking her up so there is no ego involved, but for me just the fact that I am hiding that I would very much prefer picking her up makes it way worse.

To the point that I always felt that it would be extremely difficult to do business with hot women, because deep inside I know the main thing I want when I see her is sex. And if I end up hanging around them in social circles my brain goes to overdrive trying to find ways to sexualise things smoothly and discreetly with not much interest in platonic stuff. I will do them if I need to of course, but I really have noticed that if I want a girl sexually and go direct on her it simplifies a lot of things in my mind.

So when I started doing direct approaches it really set me free in a way, fully embracing I am here because I find the girl sexually attractive. Not saying I don't get approach anxiety, I do, mostly because I am thinking how to approach in the best way to appear the most seductive and masculine, and not get rejected, but just saying that some of my worst experiences with women have been when I approached them with something else in mind as I felt extremely incongruent, and yes even more anxious about how to hide that in fact I am attracted to her.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I think a lot of AA and rejections comes down to trying to go way too direct, especially verbally - I usually keep the first 20 seconds or so basically the same as I would if I was meeting a coworker or something. Warm, friendly, with very open and relaxed body language, and projecting a sort of wandering curiosity rather than intention.

What I find bridges the gap between opening like that and getting sexual/showing intent, is gradually (in the first 20-30 seconds) turning the conversation from something very light, such as where she's going or what job she has or something about her presentation and appearance, toward deeper questions about what kind of girl she is. It's a pretty subtle thing but it changes the dynamic of the conversation from 'chit chat' to 'I'm interested in you'. Even without any sexual frame, it introduces excitement and tension as she expresses the things she wants other people to know about her, and looks for my reaction. And then we build rapport as we share things about ourselves - I always make sure to talk about myself a little bit in the same context that she's doing.

During this I'll gradually lower my energy from very friendly to something with a little more 'bass' - smiling less, longer eye contact, etc, like I'm more focused on something I like in her. She feels a little more tension at this point even though the vibe is still very friendly, and subconsciously she's starting to engage sexually with her body language, but it's extremely subtle.

On an approach I usually don't push it much more than that, I'll tell her I've got to go but I like that she's XYZ and I'd like to meet her again sometime, going back halfway to the higher energy vibe that we started with.

Interesting, it's close to the idea I've had for what to work towards. The issue I've seen for me is either going too intense and sexual right away or too friendly and happy and never leaving that. How do you transition into asking the deeper questions about what kind of girl she is?

Of course you need to have a hook so that she wants to stay and answer, but apart from that I feel if I went for a question like this after asking what she is up to or what kind of hobbies she has, it would feel too loaded for a daygame approach of few minutes.

It could be that I mostly need stronger opening to hook a girl so that she feels open to talk more, and maybe a bit longer interactions and not street stops with girls in a rush.

 

[bgwh]

Fair enough if you want to shake off AA, it's helpful at the start to know you can go up and talk to these girls and just be around them.

I think a lot of AA and rejections comes down to trying to go way too direct, especially verbally - I usually keep the first 20 seconds or so basically the same as I would if I was meeting a coworker or something. Warm, friendly, with very open and relaxed body language, and projecting a sort of wandering curiosity rather than intention.

What I find bridges the gap between opening like that and getting sexual/showing intent, is gradually (in the first 20-30 seconds) turning the conversation from something very light, such as where she's going or what job she has or something about her presentation and appearance, toward deeper questions about what kind of girl she is. It's a pretty subtle thing but it changes the dynamic of the conversation from 'chit chat' to 'I'm interested in you'. Even without any sexual frame, it introduces excitement and tension as she expresses the things she wants other people to know about her, and looks for my reaction. And then we build rapport as we share things about ourselves - I always make sure to talk about myself a little bit in the same context that she's doing.

During this I'll gradually lower my energy from very friendly to something with a little more 'bass' - smiling less, longer eye contact, etc, like I'm more focused on something I like in her. She feels a little more tension at this point even though the vibe is still very friendly, and subconsciously she's starting to engage sexually with her body language, but it's extremely subtle.

On an approach I usually don't push it much more than that, I'll tell her I've got to go but I like that she's XYZ and I'd like to meet her again sometime, going back halfway to the higher energy vibe that we started with.

That's basically how I like to meet girls and how it's most effective for me. Nothing too direct or pushy, nothing wacky or weird, just a guy whose eye she caught, and who has a little bit more confidence than everyone else to come and make that contact. I just want her to come away thinking "I liked talking to him .. and I felt something else too .. who is he?".

I have no problem showing intent. My problem is being a normal dude. I did direct for like 10 years, and became the overly intent-showing "creep". I did get laid, at the expense of a bad reputation because of just showing too much intent, too frequently, to any girl anywhere, and no ability to just vibe and not hit on girls.

I beat "intent showing anxiety" like 15 years ago.

 

[AspiringStoic]

I have no problem showing intent. My problem is being a normal dude. I did direct for like 10 years, and became the overly intent-showing "creep". I did get laid, at the expense of a bad reputation because of just showing too much intent, too frequently, to any girl anywhere, and no ability to just vibe and not hit on girls.

I beat "intent showing anxiety" like 15 years ago.

Okay now I am genuinely perplexed. You were able to show intent and have no anxiety showing intent but still had approach anxiety which you overcame recently?

How did you manage to do direct for 10 years if you had AA till recently?

 

[bgwh]

Okay now I am genuinely perplexed. You were able to show intent and have no anxiety showing intent but still had approach anxiety which you overcame recently?

How did you manage to do direct for 10 years if you had AA till recently?

Where did I go direct? At parties, industry events, cafes, the hot girl at the next table in the club, a girl at a house party, a girl at a cafe party, etc. I went extremely sexual very fast.

My AA was in terms of approaching strangers in daygame. I doubt I'd have any anxiety about showing intent at a girl who's super flirty and interested, just because she was a stranger 2 minutes earlier, and because it's daygame instead of a cafe.

Again, this is coming from someone who's so overdone showing intent to an extreme degree. Trust me, I don't think I'd have anxiety about showing a lil bit of intent to a cute girl being obviously open to flirting, just because it's daytime, or she was a stranger being opened 1-2 minutes earlier.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Where did I go direct? At parties, industry events, cafes, the hot girl at the next table in the club, a girl at a house party, a girl at a cafe party, etc. I went extremely sexual very fast.

My AA was in terms of approaching girls in daygame. I doubt I'd have any anxiety about showing intent at a girl who's super flirty and interested. Again, this is coming from someone who's so overdone showing intent to an extreme degree. Trust me, I don't think I'd have anxiety about showing a lil bit of intent to a cute girl being obviously open to flirting, just because it's daytime.

After I open and hook, the rest is (let's just say) familiar territory to me. That part isn't new to me.

So that means you had only AA during daygame.

I think that is what some guys reading what you say might miss. You had a lot of experience and racked up many lays during your previous years. You were a guy who was already super sucessful with women. You just had not spoken to girls in the daytime and had some anxiety about that.

That is very different from someone coming in completely inexperienced and realizing how daunting actual "cold approach pickup" is as a newbie.

That is why all I was pointing out was that a newbie does not read your "I have zero AA now" "I got over AA in 2 months" etc kind of statements and think that he should be also able to get there like you did.

 

[bgwh]

So that means you had only AA during daygame.

I think that is what some guys reading what you say might miss. You had a lot of experience and racked up many lays during your previous years. You were a guy who was already super sucessful with women. You just had not spoken to girls in the daytime and had some anxiety about that.

That is very different from someone coming in completely inexperienced and realizing how daunting actual "cold approach pickup" is as a newbie.

That is why all I was pointing out was that a newbie does not read your "I have zero AA now" "I got over AA in 2 months" etc kind of statements and think that he should be also able to get there like you did.

About AA: It's not just daytime. I still have AA about approaching strangers in clubs or lounges and venues where it's more of a stranger vibe (similar to a club). I only approached in places/contexts where it's normal to approach, i.e. even the average guy approaches. So even if it was an unfriendly club, it was a girl at the neighbouring table, where most tables are filled with our friends. In that context even normal people will say something to the girls at the adjacent table.

As for pure cold approach in clubs, with no social proof, no proximity, no approach invitiations and going out of your way to walk over to a girl across the club? Definite AA.

Please refer to discussion about "cold approach" vs "cold approach pickup"

A) Cold approach is just talking to strangers (typically that you would like to bang)
B) Cold approach pickup is approaching people with the intent to pick them up

In both cases you're hoping to bang the girl. It's just that in the first scenario you're ok if it's a set that just ends up as a pleasant conversation, new contact. If there's something there, you escalate the interaction, if not, it's just "socializing". Pickup is where your intent is to pick her up, and have no other goal/options other than picking her up.

 

[Will_V]

It could be that I mostly need stronger opening to hook a girl so that she feels open to talk more, and maybe a bit longer interactions and not street stops with girls in a rush.

Of course you need to have a hook so that she wants to stay and answer, but apart from that I feel if I went for a question like this after asking what she is up to or what kind of hobbies she has, it would feel too loaded for a daygame approach of few minutes.

The best hook is the way she feels when she looks at you the first time.

Think about the succession of perceptions she has from the moment she's looks up as you walk up to her. This is the same series of perceptions anyone has when encountering someone else in public.

First, she perceives your body and your silhouette, because the first thing our brains want to know is: am I being threatened, am I being pounced on? She notices your posture, how fast you are moving, and what your arms/hands are doing. As soon as she registers that you aren't being aggressive (and if you come at her very quickly or startle her, you might not even get past this point) she moves her attention to your face.

When someone looks at a face, for the first second or so, they don't see the features or any details, but an ephemeral visage of your emotional state of mind. What are the broad strokes of your internal reality. This, again, is to ascertain threats: are you a threat or are you conveying information about a threat. I believe this is where many guys fail. They are basically in a fight/flight mode and their faces show it, and her first instinct is that they are the harbinger of some kind of bad news. What she wants to see is a very relaxed, open, and friendly expression, with a smile.

As soon as you open your mouth, she registers your tone. What is the timbre of your voice, is it conveying warmth and friendliness, is it conveying tension and chaos, it conveying coldness? Is it fast and quavering, or is it even and rhythmic? Even as you begin talking, she doesn't really notice what you are saying, only how you are saying it.

If you get to this point and she's liking what she sees, you have 5-10 seconds to basically say anything that's not completely weird, and start a conversation.

So working from this vantage point, what's important? By far the biggest effect is going to be what you communicate nonverbally through your body and through your face. This is why great posture, a nice slow walk, a very calm, relaxed, open, social, outwardly-projected state of mind and expression (all of which I've found to be hugely improved by meditation) is your best bet at sticking the opening.

Remember, communication is 7% about the words you say, and 93% is the rest of the expressions of the various parts of your body. If you do the latter part exceptionally well, you can hook without saying anything at all - though that would be a bit pointless.

Interesting, it's close to the idea I've had for what to work towards. The issue I've seen for me is either going too intense and sexual right away or too friendly and happy and never leaving that. How do you transition into asking the deeper questions about what kind of girl she is?

It's fundamentally a question of where your direct your own attention, this is what determines your state - that's why meditation is all about attention control.

In the beginning, I focus on her smile, her energy, and exchanging warmth and pleasantness. I'm feeling that in my body and noticing it in her.

As soon as we establish a bit of baseline chitchat, the point where there's a natural pause, I will simply ask a more directed question like "so tell me, what do you like doing for fun?" or "what do you like to do to kick back and relax on a thursday evening?". As I do this, I move my attention more to her eyes, her lips, her hair, her neck, the shape of her body etc, mostly just with peripheral vision. Of course women perceive this subconsciously.

And as she responds to my question, I sort of push down my energy into this more slow, deep level. Imagine how your energy would change if you are talking to a girl and you realize the kiss is about to happen. Like time slows down a little bit, and the pitch of the music goes down a notch. I will gradually be more still and poised, and at this point I start giving her some lingering eye contact. And the wonderful thing is that she feels all this as she's telling me about who she is, and this validates her in a way that no sugarcoated words can accomplish.

Usually I will see her respond in her body language - her eyes widen a little, she might cock her head or thrust out her chin a little bit, rock her body, or forget a couple of words. And all I want to do is hold it there for a little while, to paint the encounter with a scent of something sexual but nothing overt.

And then, after a while and before it drags on too long (kind of like breaking off a kiss and making her want more) I sort of 'remember' that I have something to do, and suggest that we meet up another time (while making sure to qualify her based on what she's been saying). And we both come back up to the surface feeling good, establish a bit of logistics, and part ways.

 

[bgwh]

But sometimes when he says I literally have zero AA or when he says I got over AA so quickly it can be misleading because in pickup when we talk about approach anxiety we presume it is anxiety to talk to her when your goal is to take the interaction in the romantic/sexual direction.

That's just not true. In the early days there indirect game was king. The people who invented the term approach anxiety were doing indirect game, and most of their approaches were of girls they were not trying to pickup (see mystery method), the term approach anxiety was used to mean anxiety in opening people and sets. You didn't show intent to most people you opened, and even with your target the intent showing came much much later (sometimes hours later)

Nowhere in those early days did I ever see anyone define the term as you define it. The term has since day one been about opening sets of people you don't know. You're retroactively adding intent to it.

Again, the term comes from the mystery method days.

 

[Will_V]

That's just not true. In the early days there indirect game was king. The people who invented the term approach anxiety were doing indirect game, and most of their approaches were of girls they were not trying to pickup (see mystery method), the term approach anxiety was used to mean anxiety in opening people and sets. You didn't show intent to most people you opened, and even with your target the intent showing came much much later (sometimes hours later)

Nowhere in those early days did I ever see anyone define the term as you define it. The term has since day one been about opening sets of people you don't know. You're retroactively adding intent to it.

Again, the term comes from the mystery method days.

Those guys were doing night game though. In night game it's way more competitive and high pressure, and everything is sexual - she's all dressed up and made up and getting hit on by guys all night, so by default she thinks your intentions are sexual. So even 'indirect' in a club is basically direct, whereas in day game it's not.

From what I've seen, on average guys are less self conscious during night game even though (imo) night game is harder to actually get results with. And it's because bouncing off girls all night is kind of what everyone is doing, and it's all covered in disco smoke and alcohol anyway so it's more anonymous.

In daygame, the context simply isn't there, and guys are not used to approaching strangers with no context in straightforward, sober, social situations, and it seems terrifying.

 

[AspiringStoic]

So even 'indirect' in a club is basically direct, whereas in day game it's not.

Exactly. Most people don't go verbally direct in a nighttime environment. Nor is there a need to.

Anway I did not want to start a pointless argument. I just wanted to make any person skimmimg through this thread to understand that those "I have zero AA" , "I got over it in a month" "The stunners gush when I approach" had a lot more nuance to it than those blanket statements indicate.

I haven't even seen the most prolific of seducers on this forum, in real life or elsewhere make those kind of statements.