Attraction - Can it be Generated? - An Introduction to Compliance-Based Game

[BigPapa]

So as an approximation and by and large smv does impose a quality ceiling but 1) smv includes many factors (like vibe) 2) game can still wildly influence close rates within a league and 3) there may be a couple of ways to crack the ceiling, but low % (sdl snl game) or very low target volume potential (indirect day game)

You talk about SMV , which is a super fair point, but SMV is not actually attraction ? Just that rather moving from a binary response ( yes or no ) we move more towards a continuous spectrum that we view and understand attraction ?

I mean us guys have different criteria to gauge a women SMV , but basically it is about how pretty her face is , if she has big breasts or not , if she has a bombed ass , etc . But in the same time , what might be a totally hot women for you , for me might be just good looking , because I like different things more than you . Maybe you like them be skinny , while I like them with a little bit of curves , latine style . Or you are more of an ass guy , while I am more of an breasts guy , etc . Then you add the other things , like how smart she is , her personality , etc etc

I think that people here , when they think about attraction from a woman point of view , kinda make the mistake ( most of the times without realizing) of thinking that there are some arbitrary criterias for gauging the SMV that are the same for men & women , which is not the case and very far away from reality .

Guys put a lot of accent on looks , while women do not , so the weights are different . Now saying that being a good looking guy does not help at all would be a big lie , just that it does not help as much as beginners think . I think that more or less this is why the "old schoolers " are saying that compliance is key

 

[greenleaf]

Guys put a lot of accent on looks , while women do not

The ones I know do! haha.

 

[BigPapa]

The ones I know do! haha.

This happens mainly because guys are more or less the same (not having that many other qualities that are seen as more attractive by women ) , so how you look is basically the differentiator between guys . So how people would put it , the guys are quite vanilla

Or it might be also the case that this girls that you are referring to have so many high quality guys around them at any given time , that the only differentiator is how good looking you are . From my experience , this is almost never the case , unless you are pimping around the elite, and even not there would be the case as guys there are actually just a bunch of cunts mainly

It is like in football when deciding who wins the championship : if it is a tie ( the teams have the same number of points ) , then you will look at the difference between how many goals they scored and how many goals they conceded , if it is also a tie here , then you look at who scored the most goals , and if it also a tie here , then you look at who scored the most goals when playing away , and so on

 

[Tank]

Man you completely ignored my entire post. Of course you're welcome to make independent commentary, it just has nothing to do with what I wrote.

To reclarify, one perspective is there is no such thing as attraction, there is social frame, emotional stimulation and arousal. Smv is just the level of social acceptability for dating a guy. It has nothing to do with anything that you wrote about, it's just that a girl will have a general belief that she is suitable to date guys of a certain level, where level is determined by appearance, general social coolness, and any specific cultural indications of status (as in, being a dj or having lots of money, depending on her cultural and social milieu)

 

[Velasco]

I can't say I've ever pulled off this last crack, but it makes sense how it could happen.

it sounded great and all the gurus seemed so wise and the tactics made sense

it's just that a girl will have a general belief that she is suitable to date guys of a certain level, where level is determined by appearance, general social coolness

Does she think your physically attractive and your not a sperg? K you've got social frame.

I've gamed in a lot of the places you talked about and seen and met successful players there.

With American and British girls they just care about the guy being really hot and really funny. Americans more so like the goofy drunk frat boy type of humor and British girls the caustic wit, but they want these things in high amounts.

Western Europeans seem to be more subtle, it's a bit harder to understand what they want. Physically hot is important too, but more so very tall boyish handsome and lean is what Is hot versus Americans want an all out linebacker.

 

[BigPapa]

Man you completely ignored my entire post. Of course you're welcome to make independent commentary, it just has nothing to do with what I wrote.

I think that you are looking at this as an engineer , and playing with the screwdriver and see what happens , when actually in reality things are fluid and very close related one with each other . Like @Teevster mentioned , and totally agree with , seduction is more on the social science side of things , rather than a technical one

But fine , let's put the engineer hat on and see where this leads us to

Smv is just the level of social acceptability for dating a guy. It has nothing to do with anything that you wrote about, it's just that a girl will have a general belief that she is suitable to date guys of a certain level, where level is determined by appearance, general social coolness, and any specific cultural indications of status (as in, being a dj or having lots of money, depending on her cultural and social milieu)

So basically you are saying that the girl is looking for specific things at a guy , and then "calculating" his SMV based on these characteristics that she is looking for or likes . Totally agree

And that each girl is looking for a combinations of different characteristics , thus saying that a male SMV is not the same for each girl , it might be very close , but no the same . Totally agree

But then let's look on how the SMV is calculated from a theoretical standpoint , basically each girl has a list of attractive male traits that are weighted accordingly , meaning that some matter more than another. Basically the girl is computing your total score based on the attractive traits she can see , and then says yeah this guy is hot, cute , so so , decent , a fucking joke

Some do not care about money, while others would place a live fish in her vagina to please an old pervert for the latest gucci bag . This means that you for the first girl you can have 1 billion euros in your bank account and in her head you will be equal to the rest of the guys in the world , while for the 2nd one you will be a top guy , because basically she cares only about money . This are extreme cases , and as a general rule women are more or less in the middle side of the spectrum , meaning that after a certain point , you having more money will not give you extra points , unless you are this eccentric billionaire playboy ( which most rich people are not , they are super cheap human beings as a general rule )

 

[Velasco]

Some do not care about money, while others would place a live fish in her vagina to please an old pervert for the latest gucci bag .

This does not mean she is sexually attracted to him. She is exchanging sexual favors as a means to fulfill her provider needs.

This means that you for the first girl you can have 1 billion euros in your bank account and in her head you will be equal to the rest of the guys in the world

His money may not be important to her...but she's got sexual needs too, my friend

 

[Rain]

This does not mean she is sexually attracted to him. She is exchanging sexual favors as a means to fulfill her provider needs.

Is that a form of desire or compliance?
Also we talked about Ross Jeffries and someone else[older fat dude], and you reckoned theyd be an instant hard NO[outside of a small % of exceptions], and that, maybe its too late for Ross and the other guy to date women in their 20s eg they'd be reds.
Would desire and/or compliance be a possible fix for jeffries? Be that for SNL or maybe a few dates in. But then would it feel right, I mean I thought I'd want a woman to be attracted to me, but ok, maybe thats digressing a bit.

 

[BigPapa]

This does not mean she is sexually attracted to him. She is exchanging sexual favors as a means to fulfill her provider needs.

I was just making a point about a quality that women find attractive , that can be used either to elicit provider traits ( paying with a gucci bag for sex ) ,or lover traits ( eccentric billionaire playboy ) .Plus we both now that women look at a super large spectrum of things when looking to fill different positions in their lives : friends , lover , or provider , or any mixture between them

 

[Velasco]

@Rain
Ross is 61 years old. He's not getting any single night lays with hot 20 year olds unless he pays for it (inb4, I" know this one guy"!) At that age with his looks, he's much better off going for girls in the 30-50 year old market for dates and getting his sexual needs met.

 

[Rain]

Ross is 61 years old. He's not getting any single night lays with hot 20 year olds unless he pays for it (inb4, I" know this one guy"!) At that age with his looks, he's much better off going for girls in the 30-50 year old market for dates and getting his sexual needs met.

But is n't that what this thread is about, flipping reds? According to this thread, he should be able to get them? Even if not for SNL, for a few dates for leading to sex. I'm not saying its easy, I just thought thats what this thread was meant to communicate, he would get them through compliance or desire.

Or is the only way ross could do compliance/desire is through money?

 

[Teevster]

But is n't that what this thread is about, flipping reds? According to this thread, he should be able to get them? Even if not for SNL, for a few dates for leading to sex. I'm not saying its easy, I just thought thats what this thread was meant to communicate, he would get them through compliance or desire.

This thread was not about HOW TO turn reds into greens really, just making an argument that it is possible. Not saying it is always possible.

Mind you that Ross hates clubs and do not like them. He has openly stated this numerous times.

Or is the only way ross could do compliance/desire is through money?

That is what his game is all about.

As he said, once "I do not care what she thinks about anything, I only care about how she responds".

Truer words could not have been spoken.

A world class hypnotist like him is able to go pretty far.

Best,

 

[Teevster]

I was just making a point about a quality that women find attractive , that can be used either to elicit provider traits ( paying with a gucci bag for sex ) ,or lover traits ( eccentric billionaire playboy ) .Plus we both now that women look at a super large spectrum of things when looking to fill different positions in their lives : friends , lover , or provider , or any mixture between them

You can get laid with the lover frame in third world countries.

How do I know, I am done it.

I was under 18 or 18, broke as fuck. So broke that the girls paid for me in the 3rd world country (I am not proud of that - and in many cases I came back and paid them back the day after etc).

But the point remains the same: at no point could she see me, a young 16-17 y old guy, as more than a lover.

Lots of limiting beliefs in this thread.

As @Velasco pointed out, these girls from third world countries are also women, which means they have sex drives and sexual needs. We should not de-humanize them.

Best,

 

[BigPapa]

You can get laid with the lover frame in third world countries.

How do I know, I am done it.

I was under 18 or 18, broke as fuck. So broke that the girls paid for me in the 3rd world country (I am not proud of that - and in many cases I came back and paid them back the day after etc).

But the point remains the same: at no point could she see me, a young 16-17 y old guy, as more than a lover.

Lots of limiting beliefs in this thread.

As @Velasco pointed out, these girls from third world countries are also women, which means they have sex drives and sexual needs. We should not de-humanize them.

Best,

@Teevster first of all , I think you are a smart guy that knows what he is talking about and a good guy deep down , but in the same time you are also extremist with some of your views ( more or less everything bad that happened in this world is due to extremism , so this is why I never want to pass that line )

You are taking things out of context and replying only to what suits you to "defend" your position , and you know that you are doing this, but hey I understand you . You are a french , and this is how french people are , pretentious by default ( not only the french girls as you were saying above) , no hard feelings . Actually I find it somehow amusing as I enjoy intellectual discussions.

That response just came as a clarification to a hypothetical woman that puts a lot of weight to having money , and how this trait can be used to show different qualities ( basically either being seen as a provider , either being seen as a lover ) , and I also mentioned that this is an extreme case as most girls in general do not put so much accent on having money in general

 

[Teevster]

@Teevster first of all , I think you are a smart guy that knows what he is talking about and a good guy deep down , but in the same time you are also extremist with some of your views ( more or less everything bad that happened in this world is due to extremism , so this is why I never want to pass that line )

Well I will admit it, most PUA's who have followed their method for 10+ years will be pretty sucked into their frame-work, because it has worked for 10 years for them, as well as for many other experience PUAs. Could they be wrong? perhaps. But it would probably take very convincing argument, especially from someone with an equally "heavy" lay count and experience.

You are taking things out of context and replying only to what suits you to "defend" your position , and you know that you are doing this, but hey I understand you . You are a french , and this is how french people are , pretentious by default ( not only the french girls as you were saying above) , no hard feelings . Actually I find it somehow amusing as I enjoy intellectual discussions.

I am only half pretentious, since I am only half French.

That response just came as a clarification to a hypothetical woman that puts a lot of weight to having money , and how this trait can be used to show different qualities ( basically either being seen as a provider , either being seen as a lover ) , and I also mentioned that this is an extreme case as most girls in general do not put so much accent on having money in general

You can absolutely get a girl who seeks status, money or other goods by displaying high social status or wealth. I am not denying this. If my response came off as me saying that this was not possible, then I will allow myself to clarify that yes, you can get girls by displaying high social status or even wealth. It works. I mean heck, Mystery Method works, which is based on displaying high social status (status and wealth are pretty similare in many ways).

And I will also not deny the fact that some women, seek money or status or whatever more than others. This is a clear fact. All women are different - different socio-economic and cultural backgrounds. This is a known fact. And yes, in many cases you can get those girls by satisfying or making her think you will satisfy her need, whether that is status or money.

But my main point are the following:
- Those women who seek wealth and status, also have sexual needs, hence you can also get them through a lover frame.
- Not all women seek wealth and status equally much
Conclusion: Some women can be pulled by displaying higher status and weath only (displaying provider traits), but not all women. However, almost all (if not all) women can be pulled by sexualizing things (displaying lover traits).

Also, I believe the pull happens faster, more genuinely, leading to better sex by going the lover frame. The sex is build upon a genuine frame of "sex for sex" rather than a less genuine one "sex for status/money". But the last point is more of a personal preference, I must admit.


I hope this clarifies things.

Best,

 

[BigPapa]

I hope this clarifies things.
Best,

Now you are more reasonable Monsieur haha

Totally agree with you say

 

[Tank]

It's a lot more simple than this.

Smv is most relevant when she is making a logical decision about you, as in whether to meet you on a date. In poorer countries a significant part of smv is wealth. In the West women don't give a flying fuck about wealth but care if you are socially hooked up (are in a frat, hang out with djs and drug dealers etc).

If you play a game that requires her to make a logical decision, with a state break, then smv is an important consideration.

If not and it's a potential snl or sdl scenario, then she'll be more yolo in her decisions, and looking decent and not being strange may be enough social frame, and the onus is to get her excited and aroused.

 

[BigPapa]

It's a lot more simple than this.
Smv is most relevant when she is making a logical decision about you, as in whether to meet you on a date. In poorer countries a significant part of smv is wealth. In the West women don't give a flying fuck about wealth but care if you are socially hooked up (are in a frat, hang out with djs and drug dealers etc).

Wealth is a fluid thing . As long as you have good fundamentals (good posture, good fashion sense, are groomed , good teeth , etc ) you should be fine , because she can not really gauge exactly how wealthy you are till she does not know you better , but if you play your cards right by that time it should not matter that much if you are rich or not.

If you play a game that requires her to make a logical decision, with a state break, then smv is an important consideration.

If you aim for the provider role , yes I agree with you , but this is just not the best way out there ( as if she is good looking , for sure there are a lot of other richer guys than you at any given time in her orbit) . If you really want to have LTR with a girl , it is better to frame it as a mixture between friend & lover ( mainly on the lover side )

If not and it's a potential snl or sdl scenario, then she'll be more yolo in her decisions, and looking decent and not being strange may be enough social frame, and the onus is to get her excited and aroused.

In the first day lay scenario , either she really likes you a lot & you play your hands really well , either she is going through the motions and it just happens she met this sexy guy

EDIT :: The SMV is better to be viewed as a total points binary system ( which means that if you do not meet some things that she finds attractive at guys , you can offset some criteria with other ones , like for example offsetting the rich part with being a funny & emphatical guy ) , rather than viewing it as a decision tree system ( if he is rich I am interested , if he is not then game over ) .

 

[Tank]

I feel like you are still not getting it.

If you are in the West then wealth doesn't matter unless you're a multimillionaire or homeless. Otherwise it has absolutely zero influence on women's dating decisions. In regards to status they only care about social connections.

Women in poorer countries: they will sometimes have a logical rule that a guy must be of a certain smv which now includes wealth, to date. This matters when she makes a logical decision such as if to go on a date.
When you're in front of her, she doesn't have the ability to make a conscious thought out decision, and thus coming across as cool and funny and relatively plugged in society is sufficient in terms of social acceptability to keep talking to you (and thus put herself in the position to possibly be seduced)

 

[BigPapa]

@Tank I was born and lived in Romania till I was almost 25 , so I think I experienced first hand what you are referring to pretty well , and I am saying the same thing as above .

The threshold to be considered rich is just lower in 3rd world countries compared to more developed countries .

As an example , while in the Netherlands driving the new series 3 BMW is somehow neutral rich wise ( cause a lot of people can afford it ) , in a 3rd world country you are considered rich ( cause few people can afford the new model of a BMW ) , but more or less the car costs the same in both countries .

Either way , based on what you are saying , you are also implying that you can not date good looking girls if you do not have the money in 3rd world countries , which is quite a self limiting belief . When I was a student , I was so poor that I had enough money only to buy smokes, but never struggled with girls , as they were as poor as me , and when was competing with someone that was considered rich , I would just show how funny , intelligent and emphatical guy I am , in general attributes that people who have money do not have ( as a general rule they are quite stiff and basically not a great presence to have around) . It is also true that I did not win all the "battles" with the richer guys , but I would still love her at some point in time ( usually maximum after 9-12 months since she started the relationship with the richer guy , and be the secret lover ) .

EDIT :: Now to be frank , since I evolved a lot from a financial point of view while keeping more or less the same game (funny &cocky & intellectual ) , I face a shitload of auto rejection ( thank you @Razorjack for helping me to find the main cause root ) , so from a game perspective money only made things worse for me as my game did not change accordingly