Diary of an explorer

[ChrisXKiss]

Lets say for example I would feel great after doing 10 approaches and getting 3 numbers. I would be riding a high. I need to lock in that feeling. If I text the girls and they all flake then I feel lousy. And now I begin to associate doing 10 approaches with a lousy feeling. So for now I want to just focus on patting myself on the back for doing the approaches. I can worry about the numbers later

I get what you are doing, the only thing I would say is that following up with the numbers can also tell you how real they are. I believe I understood certain things about how I come off based on the fact that the number wasn’t leading anywhere. For example, you get too playful with clever lines reframing everything as her chasing you and then the girl barely responds, so you realise, that you should be a bit more genuine and less gamey.

Basically, the process after the number is highly related to the interaction before so it can reveal how well it really went. I also wanted to be getting any result I could, so I was going all the way from the very start.

And I really do think this is a long term process and looking at it through a microscopic lens could discourage you and make you stop

This is true, I understand it generally, I just wonder if things will just click at some point, or it will keep feeling like I am pushing with no effect for a long time.

But having said that, I really don't know what your level is. You seem to be already getting many dates so you are doing better than most guys.

Can’t say really. I used to get a bunch of dates during the summer, haven’t been very good with that lately either. But anyway I don’t want to use this as a metric of being good, in a way it makes me feel even worse that I’ve been to all these dates and my close rate is so small.

But just a wild guess, I feel maybe you are not enjoying the process. So this makes every approach that does not result in a number or every date that does not end in sex a failure. Then it becomes quite disheartening to continue.

So maybe the trick is to find ways to enjoy this whole journey.

Can’t say for sure if I don’t enjoy it. I surely enjoy the feminine energy of women, it’s just that after a point I want to feel it closer to me. It’s fine if sometimes it doesn’t work, I can accept that, but when it repeatedly doesn’t work, it is like I said before. I start missing the point of even going on dates.

And not for me so much, but for the girls. If I know that we’ll go out and most probably nothing will happen and we won’t meet again, so what am I really offering them, a nice discussion for an hour?

Maybe I should just give 0 fucks and do whatever weird shit comes to my mind that I would enjoy in the moment during the whole process. From asking shocking questions right away, to grabbing them to dance randomly, or other things that would make it fun for me.

The problem is that in this scenario it will feel I only care about my fun and not for the girl, while now it feels I am trying to run the seduction as well as possible, so I care too much about the girl and the outcome.

It could be I am just missing the fun though. The last girl I slept with, I just unleashed myself fully to the point she was asking me how I am so crazy. Generally I feel I present a different persona on dates, simply because I don’t want to push it too far and scare them away or creep them away.

I’ve been trying to deep dive them and connect while expressing my views on sexuality, but people around here have told me that what I say is not congruent with how I come off. And believe me with this last girl it was extra congruent.

Maybe I should just assume they are all sexual beasts and treat them like that. Still needs some calibration because at the open they just get sceptical many times, but I am probably not showing my sexual energy from the start, or they would also be coming to the dates in a different headspace.

 

[gameboy]

Maybe I should just give 0 fucks and do whatever weird shit comes to my mind that I would enjoy in the moment during the whole process. From asking shocking questions right away, to grabbing them to dance randomly, or other things that would make it fun for me.

That actually sounds like a pretty interesting strategy to me! I'd give it a try at least... maybe not start with the most shocking questions right away... but grabbing them to dance surely sounds like loadsa fun! Whenever I've done that with a girl, be it a girlfriend or even a random hookup, they almost always loved it.

You wrote earlier you can't be bothered to text girls late at night... I was wondering why? If it's because you just don't feel like it, then fair enough. But in my experience it's the best time to text a girl and establish some rapport.

I also felt like you're a bit maxed out with numbers. I wish I had that kind of abundance, lol. But what I'd do in your situation: I'd pick the girl that I found hottest, or coolest, or that for whatever reason I liked best. Then text her some evening, ask her how her day was or whatever, see if she responds and you can get a bit of a connection going. If you can, great, will make it easier on the date. If she doesn't respond, then just try with another girl, either that same day or the next day... rinse and repeat.

I have the impression that you're quite emotional, like myself, so a bit of an emotional connection with the girls might make the whole game much more enjoyable for you. Maybe even the key for success.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Maybe I should just give 0 fucks and do whatever weird shit comes to my mind that I would enjoy in the moment during the whole process. From asking shocking questions right away, to grabbing them to dance randomly, or other things that would make it fun for me.

The problem is that in this scenario it will feel I only care about my fun and not for the girl, while now it feels I am trying to run the seduction as well as possible, so I care too much about the girl and the outcome.

It could be I am just missing the fun though. The last girl I slept with, I just unleashed myself fully to the point she was asking me how I am so crazy. Generally I feel I present a different persona on dates, simply because I don’t want to push it too far and scare them away or creep them away.

I’ve been trying to deep dive them and connect while expressing my views on sexuality, but people around here have told me that what I say is not congruent with how I come off. And believe me with this last girl it was extra congruent.

Maybe I should just assume they are all sexual beasts and treat them like that. Still needs some calibration because at the open they just get sceptical many times, but I am probably not showing my sexual energy from the start, or they would also be coming to the dates in a different headspace.

I can relate to this big time. I had many successes on dates that I got from online dating when I first found out about seduction. I had not read much stuff in terms of techniques back then. I had read Mark Manson's "Models". He focused heavily on polarization. I remember back then a clear mindset I used to carry to dates was "She is either going to storm off midway during the date hating me or she is going to absolutely LOVE ME! Both of these are successes but I will not have a girl be like meh it was okay after the date"

This mindset and philosophy worked wonders. I got my best dates, lays and most authentic relationships when following this mindset. I never did anything super weird or hurtful. But I would be a 100 percent me and bring up wild sexual topics, make jokes that I loved, tell them unabashedly about kinks that I liked and I fully expected some really bad reactions. But all I got were girls shutting down and really quickly both of us deciding to cut the date short as we were not on the same wavelength or girls absolutely fascinated by me. My quickest make out on a date came when I was doing this. I think it was within 45 minutes. And this was from a girl I met online.

So maybe there is something to be said about forgetting about techniques and just bringing out your natural side. As long as you do not do something stupid, I think you might have way more success like that as you have already done before.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

That actually sounds like a pretty interesting strategy to me! I'd give it a try at least... maybe not start with the most shocking questions right away... but grabbing them to dance surely sounds like loadsa fun! Whenever I've done that with a girl, be it a girlfriend or even a random hookup, they almost always loved it.

Yeah I have also done it in fact, and what I wrote was a bit exaggerated, but I generally meant to be more in the moment and if I feel I want to do or say something to just go for it. I feel a lot of times I try too much to have in mind all possible variables in order to do things optimally, that I basically don't do enough things in the moment. And girls probably get this feeling as well that I seem to be working on something during the interaction.

You wrote earlier you can't be bothered to text girls late at night... I was wondering why? If it's because you just don't feel like it, then fair enough. But in my experience it's the best time to text a girl and establish some rapport.

No, in fact night texting would work well, just because as I said I am generally at home and have more time. I have simply heard this advice of not texting later in the evening because a cool guy wouldn't be doing that and he would be busy or doing some activity or even meeting girls. So basically that texting at these times shows that you don't have much of a life.

Your experience is interesting though. I have happened to talk to girls later in the evening, normally not right after the approach though, but when we have established some connection already.

I also felt like you're a bit maxed out with numbers. I wish I had that kind of abundance, lol. But what I'd do in your situation: I'd pick the girl that I found hottest, or coolest, or that for whatever reason I liked best. Then text her some evening, ask her how her day was or whatever, see if she responds and you can get a bit of a connection going. If you can, great, will make it easier on the date. If she doesn't respond, then just try with another girl, either that same day or the next day... rinse and repeat.

It's interesting you put it that way. I basically don't feel it, because I take the number to propose the date, and then either they respond and we may go out or after a text or two I don't hear back, but in the end I simply move on to another number and don't try to keep in touch that much.

I guess I've been following a lot the advice of getting to the point, and planning a date fast, since all other texting cannot make her like you more, and also it may even be pointless chit chat that can make her lose interest.

And the thing is a lot of these numbers really don't respond back after a bit. You can argue I am not pinging them enough, trying to reignite the conversation, but how much to also do that? And I do try it from time to time, maybe I will send a bunch of texts like these the next days, but I rarely see enough interest to create rapport via messaging, and even when it happens it feels many girls are just comfortable with this and won't come out.

I have the impression that you're quite emotional, like myself, so a bit of an emotional connection with the girls might make the whole game much more enjoyable for you. Maybe even the key for success.

Won't disagree it would make it better. I mean that's even the point of getting to know them, and why I try to understand them and connect with them in person. Maybe I lack this more than I think, because most times I really feel I have issues with my value, and girls don't find me exciting, attractive and dominant enough, but it could be that a lot of times the connection is the thing that is really lacking. Can't say for sure, but I guess the girls that come to dates find me attractive at least a bit, so something else goes wrong.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

But all I got were girls shutting down and really quickly both of us deciding to cut the date short as we were not on the same wavelength or girls absolutely fascinated by me.

Yeah, I think one of my problems is related to this. I generally have this idea that I have to be running great game, and trying to go for the close no matter how it feels with a girl. That if we feel on a different wavelength is basically my fault for not managing to open her up more and get her excited. So it's possible I am putting too much pressure to make every interaction work the best way possible, when some of them were basically doomed to fail, because we weren't a good match.

And yeah I wasn't thinking of anything stupid anyway. For example with the last girl we were eating some cookies they brought with the drinks in the bar, and I started licking my cookie with the hole pretty seductively and then gave it to her. All this before kissing. And most girls don't give me the vibe to do something similar, so I always wonder if I am doing something wrong, how I can open them up more sexually or if they are just incompatible with me.

I have to say though, I have also lost girls, because they were pretty open, but realised I felt more reserved. And I also felt it with this last one in the beginning, I was trying to keep a more stoic presence, and then I saw how this was going, and I simply decided to go fully sexually playful and it was a blast. Probably because she wasn't that pretty I simply felt free to have fun without expectations, and I should do the same with all of them.

 

[Higher]

I have simply heard this advice of not texting later in the evening because a cool guy wouldn't be doing that and he would be busy or doing some activity or even meeting girls. So basically that texting at these times shows that you don't have much of a life.

I guess I've been following a lot the advice of getting to the point, and planning a date fast, since all other texting cannot make her like you more, and also it may even be pointless chit chat that can make her lose interest.

I guess that advice is targeted more at guys that feel compelled to text constantly and in a very needy way, "otherwise they lose the girl". I had girls complaining and sorta being shocked about guys texting a bunch and chasing them at 10pm on a friday or saturday.

For these guys, setting a texting schedule where they are not to text at specific times no matter what would def help them tone their compulsion down.

But if u send a couple short texts once in a while on a mon or thu night and u dont reply to everything she writes, it shouldnt be a problem. Especially if those texts clearly show ure a cool, flirty guy whod love to see her but whos not extremely eager, like his life depended on it.

Ive had my "pointless needy texting" phase too. Then i started following the advice here - and that advice is great at the beginner stages. But at some point ull acquire calibration and ull naturally start to freestyle a bit.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

But if u send a couple short texts once in a while on a mon or thu night and u dont reply to everything she writes, it shouldnt be a problem. Especially if those texts clearly show ure a cool, flirty guy whod love to see her but whos not extremely eager, like his life depended on it.

Yeah I am not against that. Sometimes I may even do it, depending on how the girl responds as well. And from my side I feel it’s difficult to get into this pointless overeager texting anyway, because it’s not my style.

The thing is I don’t even know what girls consider needy. I feel that if they don’t like me enough, any effort to text and keep in touch is just seen as try hard.

I’ve been trying to be more cool lately in fact, both at the approaches and via texting. The problem is that a lot of times it seems that being cool matters just at the end of the interaction, they want you to be cool enough to let them go smoothly.

What I mean is that if I have an interaction that the girl seems fairly interested in one way or the other, then things will even work out easily. The approach has the vibe, the texting at least will have some responses, and the date will usually happen sooner or later. No need to overthink when and how to text in a cool non needy way, we just both realise we are busy but still interested to keep in touch.

But I cannot be dependent on it because these interactions are just rare. Most of the times I get girls that are either extremely sceptical of my approach, in a what is this who is this guy? sense, or quite polite and nice in a friendly way.

The first ones are difficult to even open up and have any substantial interaction, as they just don’t engage really. Most are closed off in a way, and all teasing, compliance asking, similarity building just seems try hard.

The second ones may respond well to normal chit chat, may even talk about themselves, but any kind of move towards intimacy is out of the question.

And these categories will transfer to texting as well. Some girls may not respond at all or very minimally like they are not engaged, and some may chat more but be very evasive when things move towards dating.

It’s why I also said I feel a lot of times I am just trying hard to make it work, trying to keep them talking in the approach, trying to get them respond to texts. It’s like they are swimming in a sea of options better than me, so they couldn’t care less about giving me the time of day in a sexual context.

Which is funny, because you always hear about how women complain real men are not around and do not approach them, but after doing it for a while, basically stating that I am here and I am interested in you, the reaction is mostly a thanks it’s flattering, but no.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Went to a date tonight, second one, with the first one being 6 weeks ago. Nothing sexual really, she had already told me she is not looking for any relationship, so I went to check if this meant I'm fine with hooking up or I'm fine with being friends. It ended up being the second way more, I proposed at some point we go for a drink at my place but the answer was a very emphatic no.

It wasn't generally bad though, I liked her vibe from the first time, but it surely wasn't one of I am horny and want some release, quite the opposite. Maybe I could have been may more forward in this one, I didn't really feel it, so I didn't even try it that much.

I did some approaches as well earlier, not bad ones, girls were responsive in general, but most had boyfriends. I got one number that looked quite solid from a girl wearing heavy clothing, a coat, a scarf and a beanie, whom I wouldn't have approached because I could barely see her face and body. However, as we passed next to each other, she gave me some very good eye contact, and I was almost sure she was pretty attracted, so I thought why not, what I can see of her face looks cute and her body seems thin.

Very smooth interaction, not much to describe technically, we exchanged some information, teased her a bit about going around dressed so heavily, and at some point I simply asked we meet some other time because I had some take away food at hand that would get cold. We'll see how it goes with going for a date.

I've been trying to be a bit more flexible in my texting lately, so I don't send scheduler texts directly, but I may send one two messages to establish a connection that would make more sense to lead to a proposal to meet. I'll see how that goes, basically I am trying to calibrate more to the interaction, hoping it may improve the close rates for the girls that are texting me.

I've had some interesting texting situations as well. One girl just told me it is impossible to find time this week, and she will see if she has time the next one. I told her no worries, I am also busy this week anyway, and to let me know when she knows for the next, to which she said perfect. No idea if I should even take this as her trying not to meet, or just managing her busy schedule.

Another girl was answering to my texts, but was extremely not compliant over them, basically like a disinterested girl that for some reason kept responding. Then I asked her out, for a second time as she had already evaded it once, she said she was going on vacation, so I said we can see for afterwards. I didn't contact her again, was fully expecting her to not keep in touch, and now she texted back some things I haven't read and that she has been sick. So this has caught me by surprise, can't understand why a girl that was putting almost zero effort to connect and meet me, would just come back to talk again. It's not like I was even a good texting buddy, I took days to answer one of her messages.

Third scenario, a girl that after my scheduler text basically wrote me a big message explaining she is not looking for any relationship or anything sexual now, but she would still love to meet me if I am fine with that. I was like it's fine we can be friends, and then we have been sending back and forth big messages, with quite long response times, especially from my side. And I'm also curious about what is going on in her mind, she obviously has friends, we met for about 2-3 minutes in a street cold approach, and I have not even tried to meet her since then, for about 3 weeks now, but she keeps sending back big enthusiastic responses. I don't think I would do that for a girl I am not attracted to at all and just want as a friend, especially when initially the only thing I know is we had a short man to woman interaction.

Also got another number from a girl that told me was busy with studies, and I told her playfully we can exchange numbers and we can meet in 2-3 years when she graduates. These rarely go anywhere, so I was even surprised she responded to my icebreaker asking me back how my food was and to my next text as well.

I also have a 42 year old that was quite responsive but after learning my age, she responded just once more and then left me on read. Maybe I will try to reignite it, together with some other ones.

Continuing with the approaches, I tried to rush the interactions less, but ended up losing 2-3 girls to public transport that came before I could reach the close. I even told them to come meet me on Sunday in front of that station, one girl at 7 one at 8 pm, as we were parting ways, so I don't know, I may pass by on Sunday, just to see if any of them will get curious enough to check if I am there.

The point remains though that more chill interactions are better, and of course when the girl is waiting for a tram, train or bus, it's better to find quickly which one she is taking and to where, in order to exchange info fast if needed.

I also got a number yesterday by a single mom that was only speaking the local language, she clearly liked me, but I feel my age again as I am about 5 years younger than her, and the difficulty of communication in her language made her not respond to the icebreaker.

Oh and I approached a girl at a bus station, went inside the bus with her for a stop just to make the number grabbing smoother and then saw a girl friend of mine, that was going at the same place with me, coming in the bus thinking I knew where I am going and asking me why I am taking this bus since we take another normally, haha. I was like: "The other was late, so I was thinking of a shortcut", although this one takes you further away in reality, and was trying to balance explaining to my friend why we got in this bus without coming off as totally clueless in front of the girl or just like I jumped in the wrong bus for her. Anyway, didn't last for long, since we had to go down at the next stop, so i simply opened my contacts and showed the page to the girl to put her number in without saying anything, she told me only instagram, I said I don't use it, and she said she can't give a number she has a boyfriend. Not fully sure if I believed this one, but it was quite a messy ending anyway, and just going for the close under these circumstances was a win. I think my friend didn't even realise in the end that I had just cold approached the girl.

I'll leave it here for now. Started physiotherapy for my hand as well, and I was told it may need about 6 extra weeks to be usable like before and even more if I want to get into some heavy activity. At least it is free though, and I can feel it gets more flexible day by day. I was thinking how stupid all that was in the end. Bringing me back in multiple things, from dancing I was doing, to working out and even seduction itself at least till now with the cast. Not using it as an excuse though, I am simply saying that together with the new job it made my daily life way more full of things and slow when it comes to other activities, so I have to really sit down now that I am free, set some goals, and see how I will approach these next months.

I feel I have not been improving much in seduction lately anyway, so I should take things more seriously and go really for the win, and not just to say I tried.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Went to a date tonight, second one, with the first one being 6 weeks ago. Nothing sexual really, she had already told me she is not looking for any relationship, so I went to check if this meant I'm fine with hooking up or I'm fine with being friends. It ended up being the second way more, I proposed at some point we go for a drink at my place but the answer was a very emphatic no.

It wasn't generally bad though, I liked her vibe from the first time, but it surely wasn't one of I am horny and want some release, quite the opposite. Maybe I could have been may more forward in this one, I didn't really feel it, so I didn't even try it that much.

I did some approaches as well earlier, not bad ones, girls were responsive in general, but most had boyfriends. I got one number that looked quite solid from a girl wearing heavy clothing, a coat, a scarf and a beanie, whom I wouldn't have approached because I could barely see her face and body. However, as we passed next to each other, she gave me some very good eye contact, and I was almost sure she was pretty attracted, so I thought why not, what I can see of her face looks cute and her body seems thin.

Very smooth interaction, not much to describe technically, we exchanged some information, teased her a bit about going around dressed so heavily, and at some point I simply asked we meet some other time because I had some take away food at hand that would get cold. We'll see how it goes with going for a date.

I've been trying to be a bit more flexible in my texting lately, so I don't send scheduler texts directly, but I may send one two messages to establish a connection that would make more sense to lead to a proposal to meet. I'll see how that goes, basically I am trying to calibrate more to the interaction, hoping it may improve the close rates for the girls that are texting me.

I've had some interesting texting situations as well. One girl just told me it is impossible to find time this week, and she will see if she has time the next one. I told her no worries, I am also busy this week anyway, and to let me know when she knows for the next, to which she said perfect. No idea if I should even take this as her trying not to meet, or just managing her busy schedule.

Another girl was answering to my texts, but was extremely not compliant over them, basically like a disinterested girl that for some reason kept responding. Then I asked her out, for a second time as she had already evaded it once, she said she was going on vacation, so I said we can see for afterwards. I didn't contact her again, was fully expecting her to not keep in touch, and now she texted back some things I haven't read and that she has been sick. So this has caught me by surprise, can't understand why a girl that was putting almost zero effort to connect and meet me, would just come back to talk again. It's not like I was even a good texting buddy, I took days to answer one of her messages.

Third scenario, a girl that after my scheduler text basically wrote me a big message explaining she is not looking for any relationship or anything sexual now, but she would still love to meet me if I am fine with that. I was like it's fine we can be friends, and then we have been sending back and forth big messages, with quite long response times, especially from my side. And I'm also curious about what is going on in her mind, she obviously has friends, we met for about 2-3 minutes in a street cold approach, and I have not even tried to meet her since then, for about 3 weeks now, but she keeps sending back big enthusiastic responses. I don't think I would do that for a girl I am not attracted to at all and just want as a friend, especially when initially the only thing I know is we had a short man to woman interaction.

Also got another number from a girl that told me was busy with studies, and I told her playfully we can exchange numbers and we can meet in 2-3 years when she graduates. These rarely go anywhere, so I was even surprised she responded to my icebreaker asking me back how my food was and to my next text as well.

I also have a 42 year old that was quite responsive but after learning my age, she responded just once more and then left me on read. Maybe I will try to reignite it, together with some other ones.

Continuing with the approaches, I tried to rush the interactions less, but ended up losing 2-3 girls to public transport that came before I could reach the close. I even told them to come meet me on Sunday in front of that station, one girl at 7 one at 8 pm, as we were parting ways, so I don't know, I may pass by on Sunday, just to see if any of them will get curious enough to check if I am there.

The point remains though that more chill interactions are better, and of course when the girl is waiting for a tram, train or bus, it's better to find quickly which one she is taking and to where, in order to exchange info fast if needed.

I also got a number yesterday by a single mom that was only speaking the local language, she clearly liked me, but I feel my age again as I am about 5 years younger than her, and the difficulty of communication in her language made her not respond to the icebreaker.

Oh and I approached a girl at a bus station, went inside the bus with her for a stop just to make the number grabbing smoother and then saw a girl friend of mine, that was going at the same place with me, coming in the bus thinking I knew where I am going and asking me why I am taking this bus since we take another normally, haha. I was like: "The other was late, so I was thinking of a shortcut", although this one takes you further away in reality, and was trying to balance explaining to my friend why we got in this bus without coming off as totally clueless in front of the girl or just like I jumped in the wrong bus for her. Anyway, didn't last for long, since we had to go down at the next stop, so i simply opened my contacts and showed the page to the girl to put her number in without saying anything, she told me only instagram, I said I don't use it, and she said she can't give a number she has a boyfriend. Not fully sure if I believed this one, but it was quite a messy ending anyway, and just going for the close under these circumstances was a win. I think my friend didn't even realise in the end that I had just cold approached the girl.

I'll leave it here for now. Started physiotherapy for my hand as well, and I was told it may need about 6 extra weeks to be usable like before and even more if I want to get into some heavy activity. At least it is free though, and I can feel it gets more flexible day by day. I was thinking how stupid all that was in the end. Bringing me back in multiple things, from dancing I was doing, to working out and even seduction itself at least till now with the cast. Not using it as an excuse though, I am simply saying that together with the new job it made my daily life way more full of things and slow when it comes to other activities, so I have to really sit down now that I am free, set some goals, and see how I will approach these next months.

I feel I have not been improving much in seduction lately anyway, so I should take things more seriously and go really for the win, and not just to say I tried.

So just as a disclaimer before anything else, this is just my view and I am not claiming that this is the right or only way to do things. But having said that here is what I have seen:

I think a lot of guys who do pickup ending up resenting and hating women because:

- They keep chasing women that are not treating them well or being responsive to them.

- They are not fully honest to themselves and instead accept meeting women who say they just want to be "friends" and then try to seduce them and change their minds.

Pickup encourages a lot of these behaviors and shames guys who are getting very low "ratios". If a guy approaches 100 girls and gets only 1 date but it ends up in a lay and he actually LIKES the girl and she actually LIKES him, pickup makes that guy feel like a loser for having such a bad ratio. So he goes around chasing the other leads he has who ghosted him, trying to turn them around so he can tell his pickup friends that his ratios have improved.

Can ratios be improved? Can girls who are not very responsive be turned around? Sure they can!!

But that is more for the advanced guys who have already had many successes from among girls who were really interested and with whom the seduction was more straightforward.

Once a guy has had a few such successes he will no longer have the problem of resenting women or hating on them or feeling like he is always chasing them. Then from that healthier more abundant headspace he can work on the evasive and not enthusiastically responsive girls.

But as a beginner I think its better to keep it straightforward and simple and only go for girls who are clearly also interested in at least going on a date with you. This is my view.

This week I approached a really cute girl that I had a great conversation with. When I went for the close, she told me she is committed but she loved this conversation and would love to meet as friends.

I told her, listen, let me be honest. I cannot be your friend. You are too pretty and I won't behave like a friend if I meet you again. I am not looking for more friends. So if you are committed that is okay, we may bump into each other again and we will see. And she thanked me for my honesty and she said it was refreshing and that no one had said this to her before.

Now was it the right thing to do? Well, according to some schools of pickup maybe I am an IDIOT! I should have taken the number, gone on the date, checked for compliance and escalated and tried to sleep with her anyway. Maybe she was willing to cheat, or her boyfriend was not real. But to me, I don't really care. At this moment I am not looking to get into that murky territory. I just only want to be around girls that want to be around me.

I am not saying you should do what I think. I just wanted to tell you how I view things because I feel all these scenarios you described where you are chasing them and worrying about texting schedules, replying to them after x number of days etc can lead to building up of a lot of resentment towards women and dating.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

So just as a disclaimer before anything else, this is just my view and I am not claiming that this is the right or only way to do things. But having said that here is what I have seen:

I think a lot of guys who do pickup ending up resenting and hating women because:

- They keep chasing women that are not treating them well or being responsive to them.

- They are not fully honest to themselves and instead accept meeting women who say they just want to be "friends" and then try to seduce them and change their minds.

Pickup encourages a lot of these behaviors and shames guys who are getting very low "ratios". If a guy approaches 100 girls and gets only 1 date but it ends up in a lay and he actually LIKES the girl and she actually LIKES him, pickup makes that guy feel like a loser for having such a bad ratio. So he goes around chasing the other leads he has who ghosted him, trying to turn them around so he can tell his pickup friends that his ratios have improved.

Can ratios be improved? Can girls who are not very responsive be turned around? Sure they can!!

But that is more for the advanced guys who have already had many successes from among girls who were really interested and with whom the seduction was more straightforward.

Once a guy has had a few such successes he will no longer have the problem of resenting women or hating on them or feeling like he is always chasing them. Then from that healthier more abundant headspace he can work on the evasive and not enthusiastically responsive girls.

But as a beginner I think its better to keep it straightforward and simple and only go for girls who are clearly also interested in at least going on a date with you. This is my view.

This week I approached a really cute girl that I had a great conversation with. When I went for the close, she told me she is committed but she loved this conversation and would love to meet as friends.

I told her, listen, let me be honest. I cannot be your friend. You are too pretty and I won't behave like a friend if I meet you again. I am not looking for more friends. So if you are committed that is okay, we may bump into each other again and we will see. And she thanked me for my honesty and she said it was refreshing and that no one had said this to her before.

Now was it the right thing to do? Well, according to some schools of pickup maybe I am an IDIOT! I should have taken the number, gone on the date, checked for compliance and escalated and tried to sleep with her anyway. Maybe she was willing to cheat, or her boyfriend was not real. But to me, I don't really care. At this moment I am not looking to get into that murky territory. I just only want to be around girls that want to be around me.

I am not saying you should do what I think. I just wanted to tell you how I view things because I feel all these scenarios you described where you are chasing them and worrying about texting schedules, replying to them after x number of days etc can lead to building up of a lot of resentment towards women and dating.

I see what you mean, and I appreciate the comment. I have surely felt bad towards women, way more before starting to approach in fact, because it felt like I had 0 control over my life. And yeah if you get a lot of rejections and unresponsive women it can start affecting you, I have felt it after long dry periods of things not working, but usually I simply realise I have to keep going and improving, because it's either this or I don't know, giving up on relationships or something?

That said I didn't have any resentment associated with this post here. I was really puzzled by some of the ways they interacted with me that's why I mentioned them. I mean it's not even that I tried hard to turn around some of these interactions, it's just that I don't get sometimes what the girls themselves get out of interacting with me the way they do. It's a bit like recognising indicators of interest, to see if by some type of texting you can infer that she would be up for a new invite for a date.

And I do have this mindset of trying to turn around all interactions, but I think I generally just try one two things and if they don't work, I keep going. For example, I may send a voice message after the icebreaker gets no response. If I don't get any response to that I may send another ping a bit later.

Also the friend thing wasn't a technique by me really, I meant it. I probably need some more friends, and she was a pretty girl, but not one I would go crazy for if we were friends and learned she got another boyfriend. I am not even sure how this will go, because I don't have much time just to hang out with a friend I barely know. I am also thinking it could get to the point that I treat her normally as a friend and then she starts getting attracted but I am not at the space anymore.

So it was truly a question from my side of why is she so interested to make me her friend? I just approached and complimented her outside the University, talked for 2-3 minutes before she went to her seminar and me to work, I asked her out, and she said she would love to meet me again but not in any romantic way. It felt peculiar to me, she didn't seem like the girl that keeps guys around friendzoning them, and her whole communication feels very warm. I was even answering 3 days later, and she was responding the next one. Anyway we'll see how it goes, could be she just doesn't have many friends here, who knows.

There are girls though that I wouldn't be able to simply go and be friends with after the approach. If they ignite inside me something very sexual, a natural pull let's say, it will be very difficult. I wouldn't tell these ones to be friends simply to be around them and to find ways to seduce them, it would drive me too crazy.

And by the way, in a lot of these situations that I reply after a number of days, I am not even doing it as a tactic. I didn't take 3 days to text the girl above, because I was thinking that it's some magic number that will create the right amount of anticipation. I truly kept forgetting it. Sometimes I may even remember I have to answer to 4-5 texts, but then feel bored to do it, so they get postponed.

Now if it's a girl exactly after the approach, I will generally keep in mind to send an icebreaker after few hours, then another text the next day, but it can always get more flexible depending on the back and forth.

 

[AspiringStoic]

I see what you mean, and I appreciate the comment. I have surely felt bad towards women, way more before starting to approach in fact, because it felt like I had 0 control over my life. And yeah if you get a lot of rejections and unresponsive women it can start affecting you, I have felt it after long dry periods of things not working, but usually I simply realise I have to keep going and improving, because it's either this or I don't know, giving up on relationships or something?

That said I didn't have any resentment associated with this post here. I was really puzzled by some of the ways they interacted with me that's why I mentioned them. I mean it's not even that I tried hard to turn around some of these interactions, it's just that I don't get sometimes what the girls themselves get out of interacting with me the way they do. It's a bit like recognising indicators of interest, to see if by some type of texting you can infer that she would be up for a new invite for a date.

And I do have this mindset of trying to turn around all interactions, but I think I generally just try one two things and if they don't work, I keep going. For example, I may send a voice message after the icebreaker gets no response. If I don't get any response to that I may send another ping a bit later.

Also the friend thing wasn't a technique by me really, I meant it. I probably need some more friends, and she was a pretty girl, but not one I would go crazy for if we were friends and learned she got another boyfriend. I am not even sure how this will go, because I don't have much time just to hang out with a friend I barely know. I am also thinking it could get to the point that I treat her normally as a friend and then she starts getting attracted but I am not at the space anymore.

So it was truly a question from my side of why is she so interested to make me her friend? I just approached and complimented her outside the University, talked for 2-3 minutes before she went to her seminar and me to work, I asked her out, and she said she would love to meet me again but not in any romantic way. It felt peculiar to me, she didn't seem like the girl that keeps guys around friendzoning them, and her whole communication feels very warm. I was even answering 3 days later, and she was responding the next one. Anyway we'll see how it goes, could be she just doesn't have many friends here, who knows.

There are girls though that I wouldn't be able to simply go and be friends with after the approach. If they ignite inside me something very sexual, a natural pull let's say, it will be very difficult. I wouldn't tell these ones to be friends simply to be around them and to find ways to seduce them, it would drive me too crazy.

And by the way, in a lot of these situations that I reply after a number of days, I am not even doing it as a tactic. I didn't take 3 days to text the girl above, because I was thinking that it's some magic number that will create the right amount of anticipation. I truly kept forgetting it. Sometimes I may even remember I have to answer to 4-5 texts, but then feel bored to do it, so they get postponed.

Now if it's a girl exactly after the approach, I will generally keep in mind to send an icebreaker after few hours, then another text the next day, but it can always get more flexible depending on the back and forth.

Got it. I think trying once or twice to revive it is not bad. We don't want to become too inflexible either. In all honesty flaking and girls not replying does still sting me hard. So its not like I am a champ at dealing with it.

In fact I think at this point dealing with no replies, ghosts, flakes is more of a sticking point to me than approach anxiety or rejections. Rejections while approaching only hurt for a few seconds but texting and ghosts can cause ups and downs of emotions throughout the day for days/weeks. They feel like long drawn out rejections lol. Even more torturous.

I think dealing with this represents for me one last barrier I need to overcome in order to consistently cold approach and just let the volume of approaches bring me results even before I am extremely skilled.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Got it. I think trying once or twice to revive it is not bad. We don't want to become too inflexible either. In all honesty flaking and girls not replying does still sting me hard. So its not like I am a champ at dealing with it.

In fact I think at this point dealing with no replies, ghosts, flakes is more of a sticking point to me than approach anxiety or rejections. Rejections while approaching only hurt for a few seconds but texting and ghosts can cause ups and downs of emotions throughout the day for days/weeks. They feel like long drawn out rejections lol. Even more torturous.

I think dealing with this represents for me one last barrier I need to overcome in order to consistently cold approach and just let the volume of approaches bring me results even before I am extremely skilled.

I think for me the volume itself simply tackles that in some way. I mean that I may feel bad for a day or two if a girl is not responding, but by next week I will have some different numbers to care about texting.

The one that stings the most is when you do have a vibe and maybe even meet, but you screw up somehow and they cut contact. Because you feel that you were very close and had your chance but lost it.

It still works the same though, you keep going out, getting new contacts and life goes on. Of course some girls you may like and care about more, but even they are not totally unique, you end up finding similar ones sooner or later.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Wanted to post again in order to highlight certain things I experienced today. I went out to buy a gift for a friend's birthday and walking around the city, I did a number of approaches.

First of all, I had some approach anxiety at certain times, mostly associated with opening girls after I had just talked to another girl nearby. Not because I believe the second one will know I have talked to the first, but because I feel bad for the first, like I am showing her I do this with everyone and she wasn't really special. I shouldn't be focusing on that though, because as long I am approaching respectfully, it should be fully fine to appreciate and talk to more than one woman. I also had some approach anxiety approaching girls moving fast, very beautiful ones or girls with friends, and I suppose it never gets fully away, so it's good to know it is there and take action anyway, because as I will discuss later, it can lead to very nice interactions that you probably didn't even expect.

Now, without remembering the exact number of approaches, I can say that there were a lot of girls with boyfriends, and girls that didn't want to talk or didn't even stop. Of course for these last ones I also have some responsibility for not stopping them well enough, that said what I wanted to point out is that at the same night I can barely remember the ones I approached that dismissed me very fast. And those I do remember more, it is because of some technical aspect I feel I should fix, like the approach angle, or the firmness of the opening.

This is not the full story though, because I also took 4 numbers, all of which have already answered my icebreaker. Not to say that this means something for the future, but to me it means that at least my initial interaction was good enough to have them respond. We will see for the rest, the point here is though, regarding the previous post as well, that after these few small wins, it's difficult to even remember the approaches that went wrong, or focus too much on previous messaging that wasn't going anywhere.

Adding to that, it was a good day because my approaches also helped me disprove limiting beliefs I had. The first number was a elegantly dressed girl walking fast towards me that I instantly felt she would be an instant rejection, but I opened anyway. She ended up being quite warm and flattered, and although she had to run, we exchanged numbers almost instantly, and then she texted how she was sorry because se had many appointments, wasn't expecting someone to approach and was a bit perplexed. All this made me realise that firstly, if you like her you just have to approach no matter how it you feel it would go, and secondly that even cute girls in a rush may be willing to keep in contact with a very quick good first impression.

The two next numbers were in the place I went for lunch. It's an Italian restaurant, but not the very fancy kind, basically kinda like high class fast food for pasta if it makes sense. And the thing is I sat at a table next to a fairly pretty looking girl. In the beginning I even wondered whether I knew her, she looked familiar. Then she was focused texting on the phone, so I had some thoughts of probably her talking to a guy, or just being totally immersed there and not in the mood to meet people. When she eventually stood up to leave very few minutes after I sat down, I simply decided to open her, because I didn't want to lose the chance. And I asked her if we had met before, and then told her she looks familiar. All this while she had stood up and I was sitting at my place, so I was simply expecting the girl to be defensive and tell me no, but she got curious and even sat back down close to me, so we started talking, I gave her a compliment and went into getting to know her. Very surprising how warm that reaction was, so what I want to keep from this one, apart from simply doing the approach, is to not be afraid of the logistical configuration of the situation. Don't be weirdly intrusive, but feel free to open girls around normally, and if they give indications of being interested to talk, move forward with it.

The other number at the same place was after this girls left I had starting eating. I saw another girl walking in and going to sit few seats away from me, facing the window, looking outside. The moment I saw her and our eyes met I felt that she was cute, classy, and could be potentially open. So I finished my food shortly, stood up and went close to her, opening her with a compliment about being elegant and feminine. Wasn't sure how this would go, and it turned out she was an artist, basically told me she also likes approaching people and asking to draw them, we chatted for a bit, I felt more of free spirited energy generally about life coming from her, compared to seductive between us, but I stayed, talked to get to know her, people watched for few moments together noticing a couple of lesbians making out in the street, and then asked for a contact, also telling her to bring her painting gear as well, and if it's not too long she could also draw me. I'd say this showed me that apart from approaching anyway, it's also good to trust your instincts about a girl, and also that no matter how the interaction feels, if she is still there and engages with you, it's better to assume some form of interest, go for the close, and figure out the rest after that.

Last number was the most surprising one. I was walking at the most expensive street with all the brand shops, when I saw a very beautiful tall classy girl standing outside one, clearly waiting for someone. I saw her while passing in front of her and talking to another girl I had approached in fact and instantly felt I wanted to go back and give it a go with her. The other girl wasn't very interested so we ended the interaction fast, and for few moments I contemplated whether I should walk back and just open, if it would even be worth it, then I realised I am just anxious trying to protect myself from another rejection from such a beautiful girl, so I did walk back to do it. I risked it a bit, because I went all the way around to make it more smooth, like I was passing by I just noticed her, and not like I came back for her. And she really was flattered. Not the friendly type as well, I believe I can feel that, she seemed to truly appreciate how I came and approached her as a man. Very shortly after I opened, before even exchanging names, her friend came out of the shop to meet her, so I introduced myself to her and told her I saw her friend and she looked so lovely that I wanted to come talk to her. We stood there the three of us for a bit, I was more focused on my girl, but was looking at the friend from time to time as well, addressing how they got to know each other, what they are doing, also joking a bit together about how my girl should change her umbrella to an uglier one because it always gets stolen, to which she said she should do a pink and I pointed a girl walking around with a pink umbrella telling her not to do pink since everyone likes it, she should do something weirder. I even managed to guess right where my girl was from, and after finding out she just started a business about yoga and tantra and qualifying her on being spiritual and in touch with her body, we exchanged numbers and soon after parted ways, since it had started raining more heavily and all three of us felt it was time to do so. She took longer than the others to respond to the icebreaker, but she did eventually, so I was at least happy to know that the feeling I had that I left fairly good first impression was right. And this one really showed me that you should be approaching the girls you like the most, because no matter if most of them reject you hard, you only need few of them to respond well, and some will, maybe even more than you think. Another thing would be how an extra person coming in the interaction shouldn't be seen as a problem of any short. You know why you are there, and you are also social and cool so it could even be advantage that you get to show all that in front of her friend as well.

All in all, it's possible that none of these interactions will result in something more. There are also logistical issues in some, for example the last girl lives in a nearby city. They could also be even better, I didn't touch much in most of them, and I could be making it more man to woman setting the right frames from the start. That said, for me, the fact that you can experience these interactions going well is very important, because it helps you realise that it is possible, and even if nothing works with these specific ones, you will still have your chances in future, since you know they can happen again.

 

[Higher]

Great vibes coming from ur post, and a reminder to myself to stop with the excuses and to take more chances - some exceptions aside, ive been a bit too passive lately.

Do keep us posted on how those numbers turn out! They all looked like great sets.

 

[gameboy]

Wow you are killing it man! Your posts are inspiring me.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

An update from today. I'll be honest and say that just the fact that I get these numbers sometimes creates extra anxiety regarding how they will go. And you don't have much control over it when the girl is not in front of you anyway. I also post the interactions here so I want to at least show that something good can come out of it, and feels bad if I am just saying I am approaching but then nothing works after that.

With these in mind, I was pretty focused on how I would text to have the best results, since I woke up. It was pretty late in fact, I wanted to rest, so then I entered in some girls chase articles and in some skilled seducer threads about texting in order to have the information fresh and decide what feels the best.

It's a Sunday, so I had some free time to delve into that and synthesize what kind of approach would work, that said during the week it's more difficult to immerse myself into it due to being more busy. So I wanted to use this chance, and I also decided to look back into older chats with girls I got out with eventually, to see how I handled it, and what worked.

One bad thing regarding this is that I ended up seeing all these conversations with hot girls I never did anything with, and it started affecting me a bit, thinking how much I have worked for such few results. Not the best thing I suppose to keep looking back at the girls you missed, wouldn't recommend it, but went through the chats to check for some patterns.

What I saw is that generally sending a scheduler text exactly after the response to the icebreaker can be a bit hit or miss. With girls you have vibed well it can work pretty smoothly, but other times not so much. So I started wondering how possible it is that you will lose a girl, because you didn't plan a date right at the second message. I feel that if she was thinking of the possibility herself, you have at least few messages to exchange before she gets bored or uninterested, and maybe it's even better to pace her a bit, and not be going straight for the close. Will keep checking that, but I feel I have not lost girls because I didn't try to schedule right away, while it's possible I did because I tried to do it without letting the interaction breath just for a bit.

Also I saw how I responded to the answers to my icebreakers. I noticed that whenever they commented something after my icebreaker, and then I asked a question, I got silence. For example maybe they said: "Hope you had a good night", and I answered: "Thanks it was great! How was yours?. My idea was exactly what I said above, to create just a bit of rapport after the icebreaker, but I realised that whenever a girl was not asking a question herself, it felt like me asking a question back was needy or overeager. When they did ask a question, it was fine for me to ask one as well.

Having some of these ideas in mind I went off to text the numbers I got yesterday.

The first one was interesting. She had said how she was sorry because se had many appointments, wasn't expecting someone to approach and was a bit perplexed, so I told her no worries and I understand and I didn't expect it either, but felt like I wanted to get to know her in the moment Also texted how I had a great time in a party last night and took today to rest ,and hoped she enjoyed her weekend with her appointments. Her answer was: "That's good to hear! Have a good week.". This seemed to me that was closing the interaction from her side, so I don't want to force any rapport on that. Can't say if there is any hope for this one, one thing I have in mind is I will just react to her message, and then come back later in the week to text her and ask how it's going. Maybe I could ask her right now how her free time looks like, just to get it out there fast, since we didn't connect a lot in person, but not sure if it is the best option.

The second number, we exchanged one two texts, I told her we should hang out calmly ourselves at some time that there is no food waiting to get cold on me, and she reacted with . I took it as a positive sign and asked her how her free time looks during the week. She told me it's quite complicated for the next 2 weeks with a lot of stuff, and since this is quite specific I think I believe her. I mean she could say she is just busy in general, so I feel I will just come back to her saying it's fine and we can see for after that. I know it's not optimal to just leave it for that much later, but I don't want to try a push for a meeting quickly if she is not up for it, not sure that it can really work that way.

The third number was quite random, she just answered after some hours: "I see", when I had texted her I hope she had a creative weekend and I had a great party and was resting now. Doesn't seem very engaged, but she felt into meeting when we were in person, so I may just go for my next message asking her schedule. I mean we even talked about her drawing me, so I don't think it would be too uncalibrated, and maybe her answer today was more her not wanting a chit-chat but preferring to go straight to the point.

The last number had texted after the icebreaker she hopes I have a great evening, so I responded by saying the party was lots of fun and took today to rest, and I also said I hope she found something exciting for her evening in my city. She answered to this few hours after she read it, telling me honestly she didn't, just had dinner, then went to a club but only for some hours, because she didn't feel the vibe, adding this emoji: . My feeling here is that simply by answering she shows that she sees something in me, but she is surely not overly excited. I don't want to really try and connect with her when she basically says that she didn't enjoy herself when I had a good time, and also feels a bit strange to try and close here for the same reason. So I am thinking of something like: "Ah sucks...what's your vibe then?" Not sure if I am overthinking this one, but she looked like an attractive girl with many options so every effort to connect that is not earned could just make me feel like every other guy, and this text could put some desired pressure, making her feel I care about more than just how she looked. And if she responds telling me something about her vibe I can qualify, I do it and then ask her out.

So we can see that it is a bit more complicated than having a nice interaction and getting a number leading to something substantial. The important thing I believe is to do what feels the best regarding all of them and then accept the result, whatever that is and move forward. Since as I said, if they were interested, even more will be. Of course always paying attention to improve any part of the whole process that seems to be lacking.

And just to prove that no matter how good or bad some interactions go there will be more, I planned a date for this week with the girl from 2 days back with the scarf and the beanie. Felt straightforward, so it's nice to have something coming and see how I will deal with the dating part as well. Let's see, because the open air bar I was going is also gonna close for the winter soon, so I have to check where it makes more sense to go, and what steps to take leading to the pull. Anyway, it's a date, so it will be fun.

And to close with something interesting, I had one girl that I met some weeks ago, she had a boyfriend, and today she suddenly texted me asking how is life in my city. Have not responded yet, I think I will just try to connect with her a bit and test the waters for a meeting. She was an interesting one, because I met her sitting at a bench, I approached with a compliment, we realised she is from my home country and we started talking. She told me she lives in another city, her boyfriend came to live here so they are testing how it goes, and in fact they were planning to meet that day but he had stood her up for about an hour. I asked to exchange numbers for another time, and she told me she cannot write it on my phone, because she doesn't want him randomly coming and seeing us together, so she was like I will tell it to you and if you remember it, you can text. Of course I remembered, wasn't even difficult, and we parted ways, because he was supposed to be coming, then I texted her that I hope she is not still waiting at that bench, she answered, but after a bit erased the answers and it even looked like she blocked me. I was thinking whatever, and never cared again, until she texted me this thing today. Funny stuff.

PS Focused a lot on the texting part here, took quite some time and effort, because it wasn't only the text, but also the whole thinking of how exactly to do it per case. I did few approaches as well, when I went for dinner, as I didn't get out a lot apart from that, without much success though, most of them with boyfriends or husbands and one cute short 18 year old that I am pretty sure was attracted to me, but was holding herself back logically due to our age difference, and I wasn't able to overcome it.

 

[Will_V]

An update from today. I'll be honest and say that just the fact that I get these numbers sometimes creates extra anxiety regarding how they will go. And you don't have much control over it when the girl is not in front of you anyway. I also post the interactions here so I want to at least show that something good can come out of it, and feels bad if I am just saying I am approaching but then nothing works after that.

With these in mind, I was pretty focused on how I would text to have the best results, since I woke up. It was pretty late in fact, I wanted to rest, so then I entered in some girls chase articles and in some skilled seducer threads about texting in order to have the information fresh and decide what feels the best.

It's a Sunday, so I had some free time to delve into that and synthesize what kind of approach would work, that said during the week it's more difficult to immerse myself into it due to being more busy. So I wanted to use this chance, and I also decided to look back into older chats with girls I got out with eventually, to see how I handled it, and what worked.

One bad thing regarding this is that I ended up seeing all these conversations with hot girls I never did anything with, and it started affecting me a bit, thinking how much I have worked for such few results. Not the best thing I suppose to keep looking back at the girls you missed, wouldn't recommend it, but went through the chats to check for some patterns.

What I saw is that generally sending a scheduler text exactly after the response to the icebreaker can be a bit hit or miss. With girls you have vibed well it can work pretty smoothly, but other times not so much. So I started wondering how possible it is that you will lose a girl, because you didn't plan a date right at the second message. I feel that if she was thinking of the possibility herself, you have at least few messages to exchange before she gets bored or uninterested, and maybe it's even better to pace her a bit, and not be going straight for the close. Will keep checking that, but I feel I have not lost girls because I didn't try to schedule right away, while it's possible I did because I tried to do it without letting the interaction breath just for a bit.

Also I saw how I responded to the answers to my icebreakers. I noticed that whenever they commented something after my icebreaker, and then I asked a question, I got silence. For example maybe they said: "Hope you had a good night", and I answered: "Thanks it was great! How was yours?. My idea was exactly what I said above, to create just a bit of rapport after the icebreaker, but I realised that whenever a girl was not asking a question herself, it felt like me asking a question back was needy or overeager. When they did ask a question, it was fine for me to ask one as well.

Having some of these ideas in mind I went off to text the numbers I got yesterday.

The first one was interesting. She had said how she was sorry because se had many appointments, wasn't expecting someone to approach and was a bit perplexed, so I told her no worries and I understand and I didn't expect it either, but felt like I wanted to get to know her in the moment Also texted how I had a great time in a party last night and took today to rest ,and hoped she enjoyed her weekend with her appointments. Her answer was: "That's good to hear! Have a good week.". This seemed to me that was closing the interaction from her side, so I don't want to force any rapport on that. Can't say if there is any hope for this one, one thing I have in mind is I will just react to her message, and then come back later in the week to text her and ask how it's going. Maybe I could ask her right now how her free time looks like, just to get it out there fast, since we didn't connect a lot in person, but not sure if it is the best option.

The second number, we exchanged one two texts, I told her we should hang out calmly ourselves at some time that there is no food waiting to get cold on me, and she reacted with . I took it as a positive sign and asked her how her free time looks during the week. She told me it's quite complicated for the next 2 weeks with a lot of stuff, and since this is quite specific I think I believe her. I mean she could say she is just busy in general, so I feel I will just come back to her saying it's fine and we can see for after that. I know it's not optimal to just leave it for that much later, but I don't want to try a push for a meeting quickly if she is not up for it, not sure that it can really work that way.

The third number was quite random, she just answered after some hours: "I see", when I had texted her I hope she had a creative weekend and I had a great party and was resting now. Doesn't seem very engaged, but she felt into meeting when we were in person, so I may just go for my next message asking her schedule. I mean we even talked about her drawing me, so I don't think it would be too uncalibrated, and maybe her answer today was more her not wanting a chit-chat but preferring to go straight to the point.

The last number had texted after the icebreaker she hopes I have a great evening, so I responded by saying the party was lots of fun and took today to rest, and I also said I hope she found something exciting for her evening in my city. She answered to this few hours after she read it, telling me honestly she didn't, just had dinner, then went to a club but only for some hours, because she didn't feel the vibe, adding this emoji: . My feeling here is that simply by answering she shows that she sees something in me, but she is surely not overly excited. I don't want to really try and connect with her when she basically says that she didn't enjoy herself when I had a good time, and also feels a bit strange to try and close here for the same reason. So I am thinking of something like: "Ah sucks...what's your vibe then?" Not sure if I am overthinking this one, but she looked like an attractive girl with many options so every effort to connect that is not earned could just make me feel like every other guy, and this text could put some desired pressure, making her feel I care about more than just how she looked. And if she responds telling me something about her vibe I can qualify, I do it and then ask her out.

So we can see that it is a bit more complicated than having a nice interaction and getting a number leading to something substantial. The important thing I believe is to do what feels the best regarding all of them and then accept the result, whatever that is and move forward. Since as I said, if they were interested, even more will be. Of course always paying attention to improve any part of the whole process that seems to be lacking.

And just to prove that no matter how good or bad some interactions go there will be more, I planned a date for this week with the girl from 2 days back with the scarf and the beanie. Felt straightforward, so it's nice to have something coming and see how I will deal with the dating part as well. Let's see, because the open air bar I was going is also gonna close for the winter soon, so I have to check where it makes more sense to go, and what steps to take leading to the pull. Anyway, it's a date, so it will be fun.

And to close with something interesting, I had one girl that I met some weeks ago, she had a boyfriend, and today she suddenly texted me asking how is life in my city. Have not responded yet, I think I will just try to connect with her a bit and test the waters for a meeting. She was an interesting one, because I met her sitting at a bench, I approached with a compliment, we realised she is from my home country and we started talking. She told me she lives in another city, her boyfriend came to live here so they are testing how it goes, and in fact they were planning to meet that day but he had stood her up for about an hour. I asked to exchange numbers for another time, and she told me she cannot write it on my phone, because she doesn't want him randomly coming and seeing us together, so she was like I will tell it to you and if you remember it, you can text. Of course I remembered, wasn't even difficult, and we parted ways, because he was supposed to be coming, then I texted her that I hope she is not still waiting at that bench, she answered, but after a bit erased the answers and it even looked like she blocked me. I was thinking whatever, and never cared again, until she texted me this thing today. Funny stuff.

PS Focused a lot on the texting part here, took quite some time and effort, because it wasn't only the text, but also the whole thinking of how exactly to do it per case. I did few approaches as well, when I went for dinner, as I didn't get out a lot apart from that, without much success though, most of them with boyfriends or husbands and one cute short 18 year old that I am pretty sure was attracted to me, but was holding herself back logically due to our age difference, and I wasn't able to overcome it.

Good to hear your cast is off, and you're getting at it again!

Texting is a tricky medium, because on one hand you can't get too sexual or show much intent, and on the other hand you need to keep her attention.

The first thing I noticed about your texts is that they were all the same for each girl, and completely generic. Anytime you do that it's likely to go wrong, because female egos are hyper sensitive to cues that show you're focusing or not focusing your attention on her specifically. She can smell a generic text from a mile away.

The ideal way to follow up after an icebreaker, in my experience, is to bring up something funny/teasing that came up in the original conversation. This reminds her of the best parts of the interaction, brings up the same positive emotions, and makes it very clear your attention is on her specifically.

So for example, the interaction you had about the umbrella was a perfect one for this. e.g.

You: <icebreaker>
Her: <response> hope you had a good evening!
You: "Yeah chilling, recovering from last night lol .. so are you walking around with your weird umbrella yet? I wanna see pics"

Always best to be a little bit mysterious about yourself to prompt her interest. And it's good when you show a bit of impatience with the formalities and get straight to the point. The point here being her walking around with her umbrella for your pleasure and entertainment - later on the point can be something else. And you keep the underlying dynamic of having her investing or thinking about investing in you.

And this comes to the second thing, I'm not sure what your exact wording was in your texts but here's how you put it:

so I responded by saying the party was lots of fun and took today to rest, and I also said I hope she found something exciting for her evening in my city

To put it bluntly, this is not how two familiar people talk to eachother, it's how two strangers at a dinner party talk when they don't really want to be talking i.e. super polite.

How would you text your buddy after a night out?

"Hey bro, I'm still messed up lol gonna take it easy today" or something like that.

That's how two guys shoot the shit, and it's not too different from what works best with girls. They typically respond very well when you treat them with familiarity and offhandedness - the opposite of all the other dudes bending over backward trying to polish their words - with maybe just a bit of extra flair and grace. It tells them that you are used to having them in your life and it's no big deal.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

The first thing I noticed about your texts is that they were all the same for each girl, and completely generic. Anytime you do that it's likely to go wrong, because female egos are hyper sensitive to cues that show you're focusing or not focusing your attention on her specifically. She can smell a generic text from a mile away.

The ideal way to follow up after an icebreaker, in my experience, is to bring up something funny/teasing that came up in the original conversation. This reminds her of the best parts of the interaction, brings up the same positive emotions, and makes it very clear your attention is on her specifically.

Yes I understand this, I am pretty sure I came across another post of yours regarding texting when I was checking them earlier in fact haha. So the plan was to mention something related to the conversation to make it personalised. The first part of the text about the party and me resting was the same because I wanted to share my experience with them, and then the idea was to personalise the second part.

And here is the point where I didn't know how far to take it, I mean how playful and teasing to make it. Because I've read advice that's it's not really good to use a lot of callback humour, since it makes it feel try hard, and the girl will realise you are trying to be funny and clever over text to get her attention. So I had the umbrella idea in mind, but then I thought maybe it's too much teasing and she will think I'm not cool enough and I'm trying to force a flirting vibe via text.

In the end, I figured I will mention to one girl that I hope she had a creative weekend because she was an artist and was gonna go paint. I could have playfully asked her here if she went and stopped the lesbian couple for a drawing for example. The other girl, I honestly didn't remember what her plans were for the weekend, but she was very into tango so I could have asked her if she went into any happy milonga or passed her time in the computer. For the last one the umbrella would have been a good idea, I went for the night out because they had told me they would stay around Zurich for a bit but weren't sure what they would be doing.

In the end it's really a question of how much I want to playfully reference what we talked about. In the past I was doing that a lot. Then I stopped completely, and now I am trying to make my texts a bit more lively and interactive to find the right spot.

And this comes to the second thing, I'm not sure what your exact wording was in your texts

The exact text exchange went like this:

Me [Saturday 6pm]: Hey [her name], it's ChrisXKiss, lovely to have met

Her [Saturday 10+ pm]: Hey, hope you have a great evening

Me [Sunday 6:30 pm]: Hey, the birthday party was lot of fun! Took today to rest

Hope you found something exciting for your [city name] evening out 🪩

Her [Sunday 9 pm]: hey, not really to be honest, we went out for dinner and to a club but only for some hours because I did not feel the vibe

I said evening and not night, because she also said evening for similarity. I felt it was a chill response, not over investing. Also although I understand the importance of familiarity, my problem over texting is that it's not easy to really identify how the text was written.

What I mean is that for a buddy, I could equally say: Hey man, the party was great! Too much in fact, I got destroyed and I am resting now lol How was your night?

But I don't know how this would translate to a girl. I mean I said I didn't want to use a question because she didn't ask me one, although normally I would. And also I wouldn't go into much detail because it would make the text even longer.

Will surely drop the hey though, should have probably done that from the second text, I just felt a: "Oh hey, it's you", because I answered after so long.

Now thinking I could also answer something like: Lol, you got your umbrella stolen again? Told you to buy an ugly one

I'm just wondering whether these kind of texts are not open ended enough for the conversation to move forward. I mean she could respond with a: "No, my umbrella is fine ", but we are still at the same place with nothing moving forward, where I have to talk or ask about something else.

 

[Will_V]

Yes I understand this, I am pretty sure I came across another post of yours regarding texting when I was checking them earlier in fact haha. So the plan was to mention something related to the conversation to make it personalised. The first part of the text about the party and me resting was the same because I wanted to share my experience with them, and then the idea was to personalise the second part.

You don't have enough investment from her at this point to go through a generic text exchange.

It's not easy. I've found the trickiest part of texting is the follow-up after the icebreaker, because the icebreaker is just a check-in. But the follow up is where you start a new thread that you want her to invest in, and the whole interaction is at its weakest point (there's no body language for her to see, she could be in a different mood, she might have doubts, etc).

If you hold back too much at this point and try to play it safe, it's super easy to get ghosted. Because when you send a generic message, the message she gets is 'we don't know eachother very well, there's no vibe, it's easier to just not reply since we don't know eachother'.

Sort of the same feeling you get when someone you don't really know reaches out to you by email and starts beating around the bush asking how your day's been.

That's why you want to immediately leverage the initial interaction, which is the strongest part of the whole interaction so far, by referring back to it (refreshing the whole thing in her mind and priming her to continue). It reminds her of the excitement she felt and the fun moments of it.

Remember, there's never a logical reason for a girl to reply to you at all, she has to want to. She doesn't need you specifically at that point, and in her mind you are nothing more than a bunch of question marks and possibly a threat. What makes her forget about all that and start typing away is when she's emotionally stimulated by you. So you can't afford to let things get boring.

And here is the point where I didn't know how far to take it, I mean how playful and teasing to make it. Because I've read advice that's it's not really good to use a lot of callback humour, since it makes it feel try hard, and the girl will realise you are trying to be funny and clever over text to get her attention. So I had the umbrella idea in mind, but then I thought maybe it's too much teasing and she will think I'm not cool enough and I'm trying to force a flirting vibe via text.

First, you don't have to be super funny and clever, in fact its best not to be imo.

Second, don't second guess your sale. Always assume that she wants what you're selling - in this case, your attention, your humor, your interest. If she doesn't want that then the whole thing is pointless. You might have to calibrate it here and there but the biggest mistake you can make is to sell yourself short.

In the end, I figured I will mention to one girl that I hope she had a creative weekend because she was an artist and was gonna go paint. I could have playfully asked her here if she went and stopped the lesbian couple for a drawing for example.

That would have been a better one - referring to something that happened specifically during the interaction.

Also beware of signs of unfamiliarity creeping into the conversation - two artists would never ask eachother if they had a creative weekend, the term sounds vague and generic and smells of forced rapport. When you don't know how to talk about a specific topic it's best to be specific and ideally a little bit teasing - for example if she'd told you she likes to draw bunnies "did you draw any cute bunnies on the weekend" or whatever.

The exact text exchange went like this:

Me [Saturday 6pm]: Hey [her name], it's ChrisXKiss, lovely to have met

Her [Saturday 10+ pm]: Hey, hope you have a great evening

Me [Sunday 6:30 pm]: Hey, the birthday party was lot of fun! Took today to rest

Hope you found something exciting for your [city name] evening out 🪩

Her [Sunday 9 pm]: hey, not really to be honest, we went out for dinner and to a club but only for some hours because I did not feel the vibe

I said evening and not night, because she also said evening for similarity. I felt it was a chill response, not over investing.

I think you originally said this was a poor investment from her, but that looks fine to me. Maybe she's not into partying and prefers to stay at home and read. You could probably follow up with something about how sometimes it's more fun to lie around reading your favourite books (if she's that sort of girl). Or ask if she's a homebody, get her describing herself and proving herself to you again.

I'm just wondering whether these kind of texts are not open ended enough for the conversation to move forward. I mean she could respond with a: "No, my umbrella is fine ", but we are still at the same place with nothing moving forward, where I have to talk or ask about something else.

Even though that's not an ideal response from her, it's far from unmanageable, you have to be ready to keep expressing yourself. Girls are like cats, sometimes they come and sometimes they go but you gotta keep putting the food out and not just assuming they aren't coming back, or reacting to each thing they do. Only if it's clear she's uninterested you just move on.

You could just say "haha looks like you fell in love with it again .. <switch to some other thread>" or whatever.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

That's why you want to immediately leverage the initial interaction, which is the strongest part of the whole interaction so far, by referring back to it (refreshing the whole thing in her mind and priming her to continue). It reminds her of the excitement she felt and the fun moments of it.

Remember, there's never a logical reason for a girl to reply to you at all, she has to want to. She doesn't need you specifically at that point, and in her mind you are nothing more than a bunch of question marks and possibly a threat. What makes her forget about all that and start typing away is when she's emotionally stimulated by you. So you can't afford to let things get boring.

Yes I will keep that in mind. I’ve fallen in the trap of thinking we are just good because we agreed on something in person. Last week I talked with a girl in another city, we discussed how we could meet when she comes to mine during the week, but we didn’t specify the date, so very early in the texting I assumed this was planned already so I just asked her when she is coming, and she came back with a: I don’t know my schedule yet, I’ll let you know.

I didn’t even try to refer much to the interaction or do anything else because I thought this was sold and everything extra will make things worse. I should really pay attention to that and focus on stimulating them, because sometimes I feel I assume the sale too much and feel they just like me and I have to do nothing.

Second, don't second guess your sale. Always assume that she wants what you're selling - in this case, your attention, your humor, your interest. If she doesn't want that then the whole thing is pointless. You might have to calibrate it here and there but the biggest mistake you can make is to sell yourself short.

Yeah, I suppose because of scenarios like the above I described I have this idea by flirting guides I’ve seen that I have to be less eager to show interest via texting, and for me flirting is a form of interest, she knows what’s up.

Maybe it’s fine to be flirty as long the initial interaction is fine. And if the first meeting didn’t go that well you can’t do much to change it via text anyway. But if it did go well, it’s important to to also text well to not lose what you had.

That would have been a better one - referring to something that happened specifically during the interaction.

Also beware of signs of unfamiliarity creeping into the conversation - two artists would never ask eachother if they had a creative weekend, the term sounds vague and generic and smells of forced rapport. When you don't know how to talk about a specific topic it's best to be specific and ideally a little bit teasing - for example if she'd told you she likes to draw bunnies "did you draw any cute bunnies on the weekend" or whatever.

Yeah this creative one was strange. I wanted to not get into something very specific so that she doesn’t think I paid too much attention in the details of the interaction and I am too into her. So I wanted to come up with something related to her but more generic. Probably didn’t work the way I imagined.

This interaction felt a bit off as well in fact. Because the moment I opened she was very enthusiastic telling me she also loves approaching people to draw them, and asking if she can draw me. Then she wanted to take a picture of me to show to her boss because we are the only two of that nationality she knows. Generally she felt way too comfortable talking to strangers right away which put me a bit off balance.

I don’t think it was a bad interaction, but I have issues in general when the girl feels extremely comfortable right away. I usually try to open them up more slowly so when it happens I am like wait what, should I just get into more playful flirting immediately? I think I’ve felt letting loose in the moment and doing any fun thing that comes to mind is the best in these scenarios to keep the leadership, but haven’t managed to implement it a lot yet, I should pay attention to do it in similar scenarios in the future.

I think you originally said this was a poor investment from her, but that looks fine to me. Maybe she's not into partying and prefers to stay at home and read. You could probably follow up with something about how sometimes it's more fun to lie around reading your favourite books (if she's that sort of girl). Or ask if she's a homebody, get her describing herself and proving herself to you again.

Could be. She took some hours to answer, even after reading it, so I was thinking she is not much into me. That was the idea of my text as well though, asking what’s her vibe, to have her invest, so I may include some question about the homebody to make it more specific.

Even though that's not an ideal response from her, it's far from unmanageable, you have to be ready to keep expressing yourself. Girls are like cats, sometimes they come and sometimes they go but you gotta keep putting the food out and not just assuming they aren't coming back, or reacting to each thing they do. Only if it's clear she's uninterested you just move on.

You could just say "haha looks like you fell in love with it again .. <switch to some other thread>" or whatever.

That’s a good thing to keep in mind. Sometimes if they don’t invest a lot or if they don’t contribute in the conversation I just feel what’s the point and I may go for a close but then I move on quickly. Maybe being more persistent is useful, and I am not patient enough.