ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

[Alcman]

If I were you, I would consider paying for sex to get out of the stigma and gain some momentum and confidence. Check out the articles here on GC regarding the pros and cons of prostitution. If you're worried about legality, anonymity or price, just take a trip abroad to some place where it's cheap and legal. Fuck a few girls until you feel like a man.

 

[Científico]

A few comments:

Coming up with nothing, she said how about I give her my number and she'll text me.

In my experience, this will hardly ever work. The basic biological rule is that men initiate, women respond. I've tried leaving my business card recently with my cell phone number to a few cashiers, hotel receptionists - women who I felt the direct number pull would be awkward with coworkers/the boss being around. They never get in contact. It has a small chance of working if her interest is VERY high, but what is much better, especially at your stage, is to keep leaving the ball in your court.

If she said this as a way to decline a number request, that is one thing - it was then likely a shit test/polite decline. If she said this as a way to fill a vacuum in conversation (as is suggested by your post), you need to continue developing your social skills/dynamics and communicating with purpose when interacting with women.

Today I tried day gaming at the most chick-friendly Whole Foods in town. I didn't need to buy shit so I just walked up and down all the aisles a couple of times, as slow as possible. I put a couple items in my basket so I didn't feel like I was completely wasting my time. But this wasn't a good experience. During the whole hour I was there, there were maybe 7 or so girls there. Most of them were clearly with their boyfriend. There were only 3 there by themselves. Two of them walked past me without making eye contact. And those were the types of eye contact where you can tell they are actively focusing on ignoring you. The last one I indirectly opened, but before the opening and definitely after I could tell she wasn't interested at all. The conclusion I drew from this experience was that next time I should try and find some festivals happening in town. That way there'd be more girls to approach there haha.

How many sets did you do total? Your post suggests you only did one. A proper daygame outing has at least 5, and optimally 10 approaches. You can certainly do 10 easily if its a high volume area. Sometimes you will have bad days and good days. If you look at my last post, the day game mission I did on Saturday handed me a cute bright-eyed mexicana to go on an instant date with, but she was approach #9 - I slogged through 8 other approaches before her, all of which were either total blowouts or women who were intrigued and engaged for a bit but didn't hook.

Also, dont make assumptions that they are avoiding eye contact with you. For all you know they are in their own heads thinking about god knows what. Just open - sometimes your instinct is completely wrong and she is happy you did.

Where are you located? I'm assuming somewhere in the USA. Is it a big city? I think its really important to explore your city a bit and find the places that work for you, with high volume and hot girls. Whole Foods may not be optimal.

I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...

Yeah, this is super important. Make this a top priority and get this handled - it's possible to pull back to a girls place (I pulled it off once recently), but much better to have your place where you control everything.

If I were you, I would consider paying for sex to get out of the stigma and gain some momentum and confidence. Check out the articles here on GC regarding the pros and cons of prostitution. If you're worried about legality, anonymity or price, just take a trip abroad to some place where it's cheap and legal. Fuck a few girls until you feel like a man.

Don't you know how you feel about Alcman's advice, but I would consider it - I think it would be fun for you.

If you are in the US, there is one great country nearby where it is both cheap and legal - Mexico. Just take a budget flight over to San Diego, take the blue line trolley down to the border, once across in Tijuana tell the cab driver you want to go to "Zona Norte" or one of the bars there (e.g. Hong Kong). You will find lots of hot girls from all over Mexico that will fuck you for $80-$100 a pop.

 

[foggy]

love these convos between elderprice & cientifico

 

[ElderPrice]

Coming up with nothing, she said how about I give her my number and she'll text me.

In my experience, this will hardly ever work. The basic biological rule is that men initiate, women respond. I've tried leaving my business card recently with my cell phone number to a few cashiers, hotel receptionists - women who I felt the direct number pull would be awkward with coworkers/the boss being around. They never get in contact. It has a small chance of working if her interest is VERY high, but what is much better, especially at your stage, is to keep leaving the ball in your court.

If she said this as a way to decline a number request, that is one thing - it was then likely a shit test/polite decline. If she said this as a way to fill a vacuum in conversation (as is suggested by your post), you need to continue developing your social skills/dynamics and communicating with purpose when interacting with women.

Oh I know it'll rarely work! LOL What are your thoughts on that situation? How would you have handled it? You meet right at closing time, you both live 30 minutes away, she's with one friend (who may be drunk and need help getting home), and they already called an uber and it's on the way.

Today I tried day gaming at the most chick-friendly Whole Foods in town. I didn't need to buy shit so I just walked up and down all the aisles a couple of times, as slow as possible. I put a couple items in my basket so I didn't feel like I was completely wasting my time. But this wasn't a good experience. During the whole hour I was there, there were maybe 7 or so girls there. Most of them were clearly with their boyfriend. There were only 3 there by themselves. Two of them walked past me without making eye contact. And those were the types of eye contact where you can tell they are actively focusing on ignoring you. The last one I indirectly opened, but before the opening and definitely after I could tell she wasn't interested at all. The conclusion I drew from this experience was that next time I should try and find some festivals happening in town. That way there'd be more girls to approach there haha.

How many sets did you do total? Your post suggests you only did one. A proper daygame outing has at least 5, and optimally 10 approaches. You can certainly do 10 easily if its a high volume area. Sometimes you will have bad days and good days. If you look at my last post, the day game mission I did on Saturday handed me a cute bright-eyed mexicana to go on an instant date with, but she was approach #9 - I slogged through 8 other approaches before her, all of which were either total blowouts or women who were intrigued and engaged for a bit but didn't hook.

Also, dont make assumptions that they are avoiding eye contact with you. For all you know they are in their own heads thinking about god knows what. Just open - sometimes your instinct is completely wrong and she is happy you did.

Where are you located? I'm assuming somewhere in the USA. Is it a big city? I think its really important to explore your city a bit and find the places that work for you, with high volume and hot girls. Whole Foods may not be optimal.

Oh I know it was only one set. The low volume was my point. That location just had very low volume! That's why I mentioned trying something else, like a festival. Need more volume!

I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...

Yeah, this is super important. Make this a top priority and get this handled - it's possible to pull back to a girls place (I pulled it off once recently), but much better to have your place where you control everything.

Agreed. In addition, if one has the goal of pulling girls in their early to mid twenties, they aren't very likely to have places of their own. So hoping for that just isn't going to yield results.

If I were you, I would consider paying for sex to get out of the stigma and gain some momentum and confidence. Check out the articles here on GC regarding the pros and cons of prostitution. If you're worried about legality, anonymity or price, just take a trip abroad to some place where it's cheap and legal. Fuck a few girls until you feel like a man.

Don't you know how you feel about Alcman's advice, but I would consider it - I think it would be fun for you.

If you are in the US, there is one great country nearby where it is both cheap and legal - Mexico. Just take a budget flight over to San Diego, take the blue line trolley down to the border, once across in Tijuana tell the cab driver you want to go to "Zona Norte" or one of the bars there (e.g. Hong Kong). You will find lots of hot girls from all over Mexico that will fuck you for $80-$100 a pop.

Nah. I'm not depressed because I'm a virgin per se, I'm depressed because I have yet to find sex the fulfilling way. Does that make sense? I want to find girls that want to have sex with me. Not pay them. If I paid for sex I bet I'd feel WORSE for doing it because it's cementing the idea that 'you have to pay for sex because you can't get it otherwise because you're a piece of shit loser.' Fuck that. I'll feel better by getting good at this. Not going the loser route and paying for sex.

 

[ElderPrice]

love these convos between elderprice & cientifico

You're the man, fog!

 

[Seppuku]

Hey ElderPrice,

I see Cientifico is already giving you some very useful feedback.

But tell me, when we initially started exchanging, you told me you had managed to get close to 40 dates. And now none? So what were you doing then, that you are no longer doing now?

What kills me and keeps me depressed is that I absolutely hate being a virgin/loser with women at this age. I hate it. No matter what I've done (so far), I just can't shake this feeling. I can't because I honestly agree with it 100%. If you go this long in life without finding ONE person on the whole planet to have sex with, you are a loser. Like, it's HARD to be this pathetic. Normal people can't do it. They get laid at some point. But not me. Somehow I found a way to not even got lucky occasionally. And I hate it. So when I get depressed, it's not because an outing went bad. It's because the bad outing represents a guarantee that for at least another few days, a week, or whatever relevant amount of time, I am guaranteed to stay a loser. I become an even older virgin. Great outings clear my depression because they give me hope... Hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that the bad times are ending soon. Uneventful outings or extinguished prospects ultimately bring back the depression because they extinguish hope. They kick me right back to square one. And it just feels like constant stress the entire time. The stress of living this terribly unhappy, unfulfilled life. It feels like I never get a reprieve from the stress. Like, it feels like I never get a weekend. Just constant work of trying to improve myself and my life, with zero rewards to clear out the stress.

I wish I could show you the other side. Once you start getting girls consistently, it starts raining more and more girls.

It is interesting to see. When you don't have girls, it is very hard to get one. When you have plenty of girls, many more keep coming in. It is a fact!

It tells you something about the woman's mind. Girls can feel your degree of sexual confidence, it just flows naturally from the way you behave. So they intuitively know where you stand in terms of sexual experience - I believe they get the picture within the first couple of hours of meeting, and probably even less. And they are sexually turned on by a sexual man. Turned off by a non sexual one. They are extremely sexual creatures by nature, no matter if they pretend otherwise.

That is the only way I can make sense of the fact I mentioned.

So now I am not saying that to make you more depressed. But you need to know the reality you are facing.

This is also why trying it a few times with a professional could be worth it. It would remove part of the insecurity you are facing and would make it easier for you to get real girls, in a second step. I don't like paying for sex myself, but in this case it may be one of the cases where paying would make sense.

But I understand your "I want to owe it to my own skill" argument. Alright then!

Of course there is light at the end of the tunnel. We all were virgins once, and went through that. Just keep a positive outlook, take patience and persist, there is no way you wont get it eventually. Never give up! It is a matter of time.

I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...

Approach this as a learning exercise. It will definitely help you if you start being more sexually aggressive. Just learning to do that is an objective of its own.

If you don't have the logistics for a proper pull yet, well, you should absolutely start to look for one. But in the meantime, I recommend you go for "intermediate" goals (partial escalation). You could try to find a quiet place (maybe a remote parking place, or some outdoor location or whatever) where you can bring her in your car and be alone with her. Have that part already cleared: the place where you will bring her. Whatever isolated place beyond curious eyes. All inside your car. You know best!

Once this is cleared, set yourself an "intermediate" sexual objective such as extracting her boobs and suck her nipples. Or take out your dick and give to her to suck. You decide! Take her on a date, then in your car, then to this remote place, then achieve the stated objective. The first time it will feel very hard, you will have lots of doubts, and will wonder if this guy Seppuku was just kidding you. It will be a leap of faith. And it's true you initially may not succeed. But it will actually work much more often than you suspect. Once you managed to pull it, you will have that epiphany to realize how easy it was. Then your second and third time will actually feel easy.

Also, when you are becoming more confident with your sexual escalation, you will find it easier to get first dates as well! It is a virtuous circle. Just try!

 

[ElderPrice]

But tell me, when we initially started exchanging, you told me you had managed to get close to 40 dates. And now none? So what were you doing then, that you are no longer doing now?

Seppuku. The legend!
Yes! I have noticed the exact same thing! As far as my game or approach, I don't think I've done anything all that different. The only major difference I can think of is that those previous dates came from online, and then many from salsa nights. Lately, like in the past several months, I've done less salsa and more country. Another difference is the day of the week. The salsa nights were weeknights. Country nights have been Friday and Saturday nights for whatever that's worth. My best guess is that the salsa girls were just a little more interested in dating me than country girls. And if you missed my previous post, everything leading up to that has been the exact same and has been "working." IE a couple weeks ago I got like 5 numbers in one night. But of all the numbers I've collected in the past several months, zero have resulted in dates and that's while following Chase's 'how to text girls' articles.

What kills me and keeps me depressed is that I absolutely hate being a virgin/loser with women at this age. I hate it. No matter what I've done (so far), I just can't shake this feeling. I can't because I honestly agree with it 100%. If you go this long in life without finding ONE person on the whole planet to have sex with, you are a loser. Like, it's HARD to be this pathetic. Normal people can't do it. They get laid at some point. But not me. Somehow I found a way to not even got lucky occasionally. And I hate it. So when I get depressed, it's not because an outing went bad. It's because the bad outing represents a guarantee that for at least another few days, a week, or whatever relevant amount of time, I am guaranteed to stay a loser. I become an even older virgin. Great outings clear my depression because they give me hope... Hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that the bad times are ending soon. Uneventful outings or extinguished prospects ultimately bring back the depression because they extinguish hope. They kick me right back to square one. And it just feels like constant stress the entire time. The stress of living this terribly unhappy, unfulfilled life. It feels like I never get a reprieve from the stress. Like, it feels like I never get a weekend. Just constant work of trying to improve myself and my life, with zero rewards to clear out the stress.

I wish I could show you the other side. Once you start getting girls consistently, it starts raining more and more girls.

It is interesting to see. When you don't have girls, it is very hard to get one. When you have plenty of girls, many more keep coming in. It is a fact!

It tells you something about the woman's mind. Girls can feel your degree of sexual confidence, it just flows naturally from the way you behave. So they intuitively know where you stand in terms of sexual experience - I believe they get the picture within the first couple of hours of meeting, and probably even less. And they are sexually turned on by a sexual man. Turned off by a non sexual one. They are extremely sexual creatures by nature, no matter if they pretend otherwise.

That is the only way I can make sense of the fact I mentioned.

So now I am not saying that to make you more depressed. But you need to know the reality you are facing.

This is also why trying it a few times with a professional could be worth it. It would remove part of the insecurity you are facing and would make it easier for you to get real girls, in a second step. I don't like paying for sex myself, but in this case it may be one of the cases where paying would make sense.

But I understand your "I want to owe it to my own skill" argument. Alright then!

Of course there is light at the end of the tunnel. We all were virgins once, and went through that. Just keep a positive outlook, take patience and persist, there is no way you wont get it eventually. Never give up! It is a matter of time.

I appreciate it, but it's actually not necessary to show me the other side. I don't need to see it... because I know it's there! When I'm depressed it's hard to believe, but I know it's there. Just from reading this site and the boards, I'm convinced it's there. As a matter of fact, that's why I keep at it and haven't quit. That's why I go back out every weekend.

I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...

Approach this as a learning exercise. It will definitely help you if you start being more sexually aggressive. Just learning to do that is an objective of its own.

If you don't have the logistics for a proper pull yet, well, you should absolutely start to look for one. But in the meantime, I recommend you go for "intermediate" goals (partial escalation). You could try to find a quiet place (maybe a remote parking place, or some outdoor location or whatever) where you can bring her in your car and be alone with her. Have that part already cleared: the place where you will bring her. Whatever isolated place beyond curious eyes. All inside your car. You know best!

Once this is cleared, set yourself an "intermediate" sexual objective such as extracting her boobs and suck her nipples. Or take out your dick and give to her to suck. You decide! Take her on a date, then in your car, then to this remote place, then achieve the stated objective. The first time it will feel very hard, you will have lots of doubts, and will wonder if this guy Seppuku was just kidding you. It will be a leap of faith. And it's true you initially may not succeed. But it will actually work much more often than you suspect. Once you managed to pull it, you will have that epiphany to realize how easy it was. Then your second and third time will actually feel easy.

Also, when you are becoming more confident with your sexual escalation, you will find it easier to get first dates as well! It is a virtuous circle. Just try!

Oh yes my friend, I've kept your advice in mind from previous threads regarding this topic! I'm always thinking about pulling and isolating to my car.

I've struggled to try it lately because I'm just not seeing any sign of life from these girls. Just like on my dates that you've read about, even though these girls are agreeing to a date with me and give me their number when asked, they're not showing any signs of real interest. No hair playing, no flirting, no trying to keep my attention, no touching. Nothing like that. And sure enough when I try to arrange a date, 0% have been interested.

As soon as I have a live one, my plan is to move her as quickly as possible. If that involves her getting into my car (if the situation allows for it) then I'll definitely try to escalate.

Thank you again for the feedback!

 

[Seppuku]

I've struggled to try it lately because I'm just not seeing any sign of life from these girls. Just like on my dates that you've read about, even though these girls are agreeing to a date with me and give me their number when asked, they're not showing any signs of real interest. No hair playing, no flirting, no trying to keep my attention, no touching. Nothing like that. And sure enough when I try to arrange a date, 0% have been interested.

Just some extra feedback. Sometimes they do NOT look like interested, but if you try to escalate you still get a pleasant surprise. Even if you don't see signs, you should try nevertheless. And if you think the girl is lost, so then why not going all the way? If you're not going to see her again, you have nothing to lose, and still plenty to gain at learning to be more physically aggressive.

In any case, just keep trying, and you will get there. It is just a matter of time. Just don't give up!

 

[ElderPrice]

I've struggled to try it lately because I'm just not seeing any sign of life from these girls. Just like on my dates that you've read about, even though these girls are agreeing to a date with me and give me their number when asked, they're not showing any signs of real interest. No hair playing, no flirting, no trying to keep my attention, no touching. Nothing like that. And sure enough when I try to arrange a date, 0% have been interested.

Just some extra feedback. Sometimes they do NOT look like interested, but if you try to escalate you still get a pleasant surprise. Even if you don't see signs, you should try nevertheless. And if you think the girl is lost, so then why not going all the way? If you're not going to see her again, you have nothing to lose, and still plenty to gain at learning to be more physically aggressive.

In any case, just keep trying, and you will get there. It is just a matter of time. Just don't give up!

You're definitely right about giving it a shot and see what happens. Just weird that it's extremely rare to get any normal sign of interest. I'm not exaggerating.. even the girls that agree to dates and give me their numbers, NONE of them show any of those aforementioned signs of interest. Or signs of interest from the "How Girls Show Interest" article:

She says you’d make a great couple, you look good together, anything like that
She says you’re handsome or sexy
She asks you where you live, especially if it comes at an unusual time in the conversation or out of the middle of nowhere
She asks if you live alone or with friends or roommates, and especially if she asks if they are home right now
She focuses more of her attention on you, especially if you’ve been quiet or other people are competing for her attention, but she’s still devoting a lot of attention to you
She does something physically suggestive, like taking your arm and putting it around her or taking your hand and putting it on her, or putting her hand or legs on you
She buys you food or buys you a drink

Or from "Book Excerpts: Signs She Likes You"

She’s physically leaning into you – the closer the better
Her body is facing you
She’s asking you lots of questions
She’s proactively working to qualify herself and build rapport and a connection, including:
She agrees with just about everything you say, very emphatically
She works to relate her experiences to yours and build commonalities
She focuses on ways that the two of you are alike in conversation
She’s touching you
She’s talking about things the two of you can or will do in the future (such as hanging out, going to different places, or even taking vacations)
She uses “we” and “us” when referring to you and her

I've literally never seen these in my interactions with women regardless whether it's initial conversations, asking for a date, getting a number, or actually on a date. You probably don't believe me, but I'm being honest. These are not how girls act when they meet me. Ever. This list is very alien to me. That's why most of my posts in this journal are me wondering "What could I possibly be going wrong?" Because it's not like I'm saying stupid things that bomb my interactions. It's not like I'm texting dumb things. Every single girl I meet just doesn't get anywhere near this excited.

Seppuku, to be honest, I believe you that if I just stay at it I'll get it... But at the same time, I can't help but be very confident that after the countless interactions I've had with women that I see a clear conclusion here: They're just not excited to meet me and interact with me, and that's why none of these girls are converting. It's not that I need some tiny tweek to my approach. It's that I have a major excitement problem. If I can get this excitement issue solved, then the rest of it will improve on its own. What do you think? Have you ever had this issue or worked with anyone with this issue? Thank you again for the help, my friend.

 

[Seppuku]

Seppuku, to be honest, I believe you that if I just stay at it I'll get it... But at the same time, I can't help but be very confident that after the countless interactions I've had with women that I see a clear conclusion here: They're just not excited to meet me and interact with me, and that's why none of these girls are converting. It's not that I need some tiny tweek to my approach. It's that I have a major excitement problem. If I can get this excitement issue solved, then the rest of it will improve on its own. What do you think? Have you ever had this issue or worked with anyone with this issue? Thank you again for the help, my friend.

There must be ONE thing that you are repeatedly doing, which is causing the issue. I wish I was there to see in person because something big like this would be immediately spotted. I am also very confident that you are initially doing something right, or you wouldn't have had 40 dates... But when you two end up in person, this big thing you are doing is killing it.

And yeah from our past discussions, over excitement is a clear contender. Something like this is telling her "He is totally into me. I can get him too easily." Too attainable, no challenge, no mystery. It also makes you come across as needy I guess. Turn off.

So we are back to our previous discussions. If this is the issue, you need to tweak it. Tune down the energy level. Try the poker face. Have her wonder "does he like me?". Only smile as a reward for good behavior. Talk only 20% of the time. Watch your own body language, keep it neutral most of the time.

Also, I would like you to try a new approach. It will be out of your comfort zone, but you understand that if you stay in comfort zone and keep doing the same, you will keep getting the same results. You HAVE to change something in your approach.

So the approach I have been suggesting to you is this. You stay out of the "fun" mode. Keep cool and relaxed, laid back, little smile, low energy. Ask her about her story. Actively listen. Two hours into the date, you tell her "Come with me." and take her to your car. You will drive the car to a quiet place like we said, then escalate.

You can also try to build compliance during the date, it will help with your pull. Ask her to do things for you. You can start gentle, sounding like a polite question "Can you call the waitress for me please?" (or whatever). Then increase "Show me your hand." sounding more like an order. Just a few times will be enough. Later, it is going to be "come with me" so the compliance you managed to build will help.

Do not worry about signs of interests, just trust the process. Because doing something like this is in itself immensely attractive to her. It displays you have balls, the precise sort of balls whose sperm she wants inside her.

It will be very much out of your comfort zone. You will be in doubt. You will initially be awkward. There will be some fails. But as you keep practicing, it will come easier next time. It will certainly boost your confidence, and your attractiveness.

Just a tip. When you take her to your car, expect her to ask "where are we going?". Be ready to handle that question. But just be careful, if you tell her something specific such as "we are going to XXX bar", she will expect you go there, and if you don't, you may face some resistance. Something vague and open like "let us just take a drive around" is better.

 

[ElderPrice]

Seppuku, to be honest, I believe you that if I just stay at it I'll get it... But at the same time, I can't help but be very confident that after the countless interactions I've had with women that I see a clear conclusion here: They're just not excited to meet me and interact with me, and that's why none of these girls are converting. It's not that I need some tiny tweek to my approach. It's that I have a major excitement problem. If I can get this excitement issue solved, then the rest of it will improve on its own. What do you think? Have you ever had this issue or worked with anyone with this issue? Thank you again for the help, my friend.

There must be ONE thing that you are repeatedly doing, which is causing the issue. I wish I was there to see in person because something big like this would be immediately spotted. I am also very confident that you are initially doing something right, or you wouldn't have had 40 dates... But when you two end up in person, this big thing you are doing is killing it.

And yeah from our past discussions, over excitement is a clear contender. Something like this is telling her "He is totally into me. I can get him too easily." Too attainable, no challenge, no mystery. It also makes you come across as needy I guess. Turn off.

So we are back to our previous discussions. If this is the issue, you need to tweak it. Tune down the energy level. Try the poker face. Have her wonder "does he like me?". Only smile as a reward for good behavior. Talk only 20% of the time. Watch your own body language, keep it neutral most of the time.

Also, I would like you to try a new approach. It will be out of your comfort zone, but you understand that if you stay in comfort zone and keep doing the same, you will keep getting the same results. You HAVE to change something in your approach.

So the approach I have been suggesting to you is this. You stay out of the "fun" mode. Keep cool and relaxed, laid back, little smile, low energy. Ask her about her story. Actively listen. Two hours into the date, you tell her "Come with me." and take her to your car. You will drive the car to a quiet place like we said, then escalate.

You can also try to build compliance during the date, it will help with your pull. Ask her to do things for you. You can start gentle, sounding like a polite question "Can you call the waitress for me please?" (or whatever). Then increase "Show me your hand." sounding more like an order. Just a few times will be enough. Later, it is going to be "come with me" so the compliance you managed to build will help.

Do not worry about signs of interests, just trust the process. Because doing something like this is in itself immensely attractive to her. It displays you have balls, the precise sort of balls whose sperm she wants inside her.

It will be very much out of your comfort zone. You will be in doubt. You will initially be awkward. There will be some fails. But as you keep practicing, it will come easier next time. It will certainly boost your confidence, and your attractiveness.

Just a tip. When you take her to your car, expect her to ask "where are we going?". Be ready to handle that question. But just be careful, if you tell her something specific such as "we are going to XXX bar", she will expect you go there, and if you don't, you may face some resistance. Something vague and open like "let us just take a drive around" is better.

I remember your exact words here from our last thread from several months ago. The only reason I haven't had an update here is because I haven't had a single date to try it on yet!

How would you adapt this approach to meeting girls cold for the first time? I've thought about applying this to my approach of new women, but I just don't see how it can work. First off, I'd be STUNNED if on a normal, every day approach I'm coming across as too eager. Literally all that's going through my head is "there's a cute one. Let's say Hi and see what happens. Let's give this another shot." There's no mental backflips of joy. There is no "ooooo this interaction made my day!!11" It's just an approach like any other. I approach as confidently as possible, smile like a normal person, then strike up the conversation/say hi/ask to dance/whatever.

If you think I should try approaching all girls without a smile at all, and if I should try going anti-excited to the extreme, I'll try it. But definitely everything I've ever read in the coaching sphere whether that's GC, RSD, or anything else suggests smiling/warm/good energy is the way to go. I would expect this to not work because as I've mentioned before, women NEVER approach me. Just like they never show standard signs of interest, they never approach me. So it's not like they're throwing themselves at me, then I show them some hideous smile and they run away. I'm having an attractive/excitement issue even when I'm NOT approaching them. But again, if you think I should try it, I'll try it.

Thank you again!

 

[Seppuku]

What I say above was regarding how to run the date. Now, regarding how to get a date, I would recommend you think what you were doing before, because obviously that did work. Just do the same!

You used to have this part right... Check for what you changed recently that caused your results plummeted.

I wouldn't worry if women never approach you, because you're the one expected to make the first step.

 

[ElderPrice]

3/17/19 Lost motivation to approach. Convinced I have some mental illness/inner game issue to address first.

Not a good weekend and I feel depressed at the moment, but there's no need to go into the details there. Nothing new to report. Same old same old responses I'm getting from girls no matter what I do.

This weekend I noticed a new RSD video that spoke to me to a degree. Tyler talks about guys who just come across as weird no matter what they do, how and why their mind is wired to produce this, and generally how to change it. After watching this video, after thinking about the zero results I've gotten trying to get somewhere with girls, and after reviewing my journal, I'm just convinced my head is just fucked up and I need to get that fixed first and foremost.

I'm sure anyone that's read this journal agrees. The posts I make in very bad states are very negative. And when I talk about my opinions about myself they don't sound good at all. I don't know exactly what the issue is and how to address it. I think it's some sort of negative beliefs that are stuck in a cycle and I don't know how to break. I struggle to break out of it because I honestly believe them.

Here are my beliefs that I agree with. Like, logically agree with:
- I am a total loser for somehow getting to this age without any interactions with girls (for instance, never had sex with even one, no girlfriends, no one night stands, nothing. Can't even get dates anymore)
- I'm very embarrassed and humiliated at myself for pulling off this feat. I hate myself for it.
- The prospect of taking years to fix this petrifies me
- Taking years to fix this just guarantees I will be a 31 y/o loser, 32, 33, 34...
- Becoming an even older loser is just going to make the self esteem even worse

This mentality is always in my head. Even on my best nights where I feel like a fucking champion, these beliefs are still in there. I'm not consciously thinking about them, but they're there. No wonder I can't get any success. I have no idea how these feelings show themselves in my vibe/appearance when I'm even in a stellar mood, but nonetheless, no wonder I can't get any success at all.

Not sure how to fix this. I was hoping that I could learn game well enough to compensate for this, get some momentum, get some results, and get moving in the right direction. That would show me that I am indeed in the process of not being a loser anymore and that the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter. And that those beliefs are not at all big deals.

But after seeing the exact same responses from women regardless of where they're at in the process, referring to never seeing signs of interest whether I'm opening a girl or on a date with one, I actually think I can logically conclude that more approaching isn't going to change anything. Not with this fucked up mindset. I need to fix this, and hopefully that will unlock exponential growth and success. More than facial expression tweaks or conversation tips ever could.

Tyler suggested thinking about 'contributing' or doing things for others. 'Bring and increase the energy.' Yeah sure that won't hurt and should help, but I'm not sure if that can undo my negative beliefs. I don't know if they're un-doable. How do you get yourself to believe you're the opposite of a loser when you simultaneously believe that it's an indisputable fact that you are a loser?

Hopefully I can get this fixed. Suggestions are welcome because I have no idea how to tackle these beliefs.

 

[readjusting]

Here are my beliefs that I agree with. Like, logically agree with:
- I am a total loser for somehow getting to this age without any interactions with girls (for instance, never had sex with even one, no girlfriends, no one night stands, nothing. Can't even get dates anymore)
- I'm very embarrassed and humiliated at myself for pulling off this feat. I hate myself for it.
- The prospect of taking years to fix this petrifies me
- Taking years to fix this just guarantees I will be a 31 y/o loser, 32, 33, 34...
- Becoming an even older loser is just going to make the self esteem even worse

Yeah, I used to have those beliefs before I got any result. But the best part? Girls cannot read your mind.
The first time I got "result" was when I just got off a bus, chatting with a girl in a 2 guys 1 girl group. At the time I was a 22 years old virgin, having been working on pickup for a year, no dates, no girlfriend, no nothing. Later on she kissed me.
I had all the insecurities you had. I thought I was a loser virgin. But she couldn't read my mind. She only saw a normal guy having a normal chat with the group.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Elderprice, I think you're situation would be great for an article because I haven't seen one about starting the game late while being a virgin getting his shit together at the same time while learning to get women too.

There's an article about getting women if you're older, but I believed that's aimed more toward men who still probably had careers and some experience with girls while younger.

The new article is basically like what to do if you have a late start in life and how to not feel so down on yourself and fix your situation

Hopefully an article could be made about what you and others can do if they're an older virgin learning game and getting their shit together at the same time.

All I can say is bro, just keep going, you're doing good.

 

[ElderPrice]

Here are my beliefs that I agree with. Like, logically agree with:
- I am a total loser for somehow getting to this age without any interactions with girls (for instance, never had sex with even one, no girlfriends, no one night stands, nothing. Can't even get dates anymore)
- I'm very embarrassed and humiliated at myself for pulling off this feat. I hate myself for it.
- The prospect of taking years to fix this petrifies me
- Taking years to fix this just guarantees I will be a 31 y/o loser, 32, 33, 34...
- Becoming an even older loser is just going to make the self esteem even worse

Yeah, I used to have those beliefs before I got any result. But the best part? Girls cannot read your mind.
The first time I got "result" was when I just got off a bus, chatting with a girl in a 2 guys 1 girl group. At the time I was a 22 years old virgin, having been working on pickup for a year, no dates, no girlfriend, no nothing. Later on she kissed me.
I had all the insecurities you had. I thought I was a loser virgin. But she couldn't read my mind. She only saw a normal guy having a normal chat with the group.

They can't read your mind, but I'm convinced they're reading something about me. Something about my vibe/appearance just can't attract the least bit attractive girls. Girls aren't excited to meet me even if I'm in my best, most positive mood. Been trying to figure out forever what the culprit is. Currently I'm thinking it must be my buried negativity. Maybe it's making me look desperate or needy or something? No idea.

 

[ElderPrice]

Elderprice, I think you're situation would be great for an article because I haven't seen one about starting the game late while being a virgin getting his shit together at the same time while learning to get women too.

There's an article about getting women if you're older, but I believed that's aimed more toward men who still probably had careers and some experience with girls while younger.

The new article is basically like what to do if you have a late start in life and how to not feel so down on yourself and fix your situation

Hopefully an article could be made about what you and others can do if they're an older virgin learning game and getting their shit together at the same time.

All I can say is bro, just keep going, you're doing good.

Thank you!

Hmmm while it's true it's really hard to find articles on this situation (whether here or on other sites), I can see why. It's an incredibly rare situation to be in. In my opinion basically impossibly rare. It's just hard for a guy to go 15ish years and not even accidentally trip and fall into a pussy. It happens at some point for everyone. You just have to be exceptionally fucked up to go that long without sex. At least in my opinion. And I'm not sure what the article would cover that hasn't been covered already in multiple articles.

 

[ElderPrice]

3/21/19 Feeling better

Okay so I'm thinking I'm seeing a pattern here. I'm not happy with the results I'm getting, particularly on weekends, so I get butthurt Sunday and Monday, make a butthurt post on one of those days, then after a few days I feel better and am ready to quit bitching and go back out.

This time it helped that I went back to read some basic "PUA" stuff to mentally reset and make sure I'm following the basic concepts correctly. In this case, approaching enough. The idea has also been raised by others in this journal. But I read through some articles on Tony D's blog again and saw some old RSD videos again, and they hammer home a point that I've been doubting lately: if you're not happy with your results, approach more girls. So, I'm going to try and approach more girls. I can't fit too much additional time into my schedule, so I'm going to try and optimize the time I do have. For example, instead of getting take out and eating at home, I'll try to sit down at the restaurant to eat there. Might be able to meet more girls that way! Also, if one venue on the weekend isn't tickling my fancy or doesn't have many attractive girls, move on to another. I don't have to stay at a venue for long at all if it's not a great night there talent-wise.

Anyway, the main point of this entry is this: To anyone that follows this journal regularly, if I continue making sob story posts every Sunday and they just get dumber and dumber over time, then if you're going to reply, please reply with something like "Hey Elder, give it 3-4 days then come back. You'll be fine."

Thanks guys! I deeply appreciate all your help, I really do!

 

[Seppuku]

EP,

We are running into circles. I will eventually sound repetitive.

They can't read your mind, but I'm convinced they're reading something about me.

Of course they do.

Guys who do not see any girl, find it almost impossible to get one girl. Guys who are seeing 3 girls simultaneously, will have no problem to get a 4th girl in their rotation. Ask me how I know? Because I have been on both ends! It has also been verified multiple times over on these Boards. Look how Ambiance or Hue are consistently cleaning, for example.

It is not one of the least feminine paradoxes. On one hand these ladies want a man who will commit faithfully to them and provide. On the other hand, they want a man loved by every other girls. And they don't want the man loved by no one. It's very fucked up, I know, and unfair for the guys least sexually experience. But that is the REALITY of how girls work.

But how would they know if a man is loved by other girls or not? Because they can tell!

"Girls can't read my mind". No they can't read your conscious thoughts obviously. But they can read the cues you are giving away by your body language and overall behavior, like an open book. They are VERY good at that.

So yes, they are reading something about you: your overall sexual experience. Again, I am not saying this to make you feel bad and bring you down, you personally. Quite the contrary, I would really like to see you succeed! But I just want you to know what is the nature of the problem you are facing.

You are not the only one on these Boards with this problem. Among the guys I tried to help over the years, Witcher and ThePhoenix eventually made it when they finally mustered the courage to apply this simple dating advice: pull on first date. In general, even if you don't have the logistics to pull (which is a big problem IMO), you should still aim for a sexual objective. This is the way to reverse the negative feedback loop into a self reinforcing virtuous circle. Isolate her, and take out those boobs! That will boost your self confidence, compensate for your lack of experience, alleviate the problem, and will make it overall easier for you with the next girl.

Something about my vibe/appearance just can't attract the least bit attractive girls. Girls aren't excited to meet me even if I'm in my best, most positive mood. Been trying to figure out forever what the culprit is. Currently I'm thinking it must be my buried negativity. Maybe it's making me look desperate or needy or something? No idea.

Whereas the "overall sexual experience" thing certainly affects the outcome of your dates, it does not explain why you are no longer getting any date. Why? Because you used to get plenty of dates. Something about you has changed since last year, which is translated into your vibe. I don't know what it is exactly, you know best! BUT yes, your "accumulated negativity" is a clear contender. Eventually it is all in your mind! Stay positive, please!

Your problem CAN be overcome. You eventually will. Do not give up! Keep it positive and continue to believe in it!

 

[ElderPrice]

3/25/19 A learning weekend

First off, thank you again for the kind words Seppuku. I'll do my best to stay positive. I'm currently looking at material to see how I can maintain a positive mood and not go into brief depressive funks.

As for this weekend, it was a good weekend in that I had a good deal of socializing and learning opportunities. But nothing as far as results. I was depressed today, but it was different than previous depressive days. It was a very depressed day but without the sad component if that makes sense. I can't explain why I was feeling this way. Anyway, I'm sure I'll be fine in a day or two.

Not much to report from Friday. Went dancing because I just wanted to do something fun. Maybe interacted with 10 new girls that night. Like always, no hooks. But I wasn't trying. I purposely didn't try. I wanted to try experimenting if I stop 'chasing' completely, if anything would happen on their end, like if they would start showing signs of interest. Alas, nothing yet as far as this experiment goes. But this has been a good experiment. I can feel myself getting better at walking away from and being 'colder' to girls who aren't interested. In other words, if they're not into me, why reward that with a smile and an attempt at a conversation? And why waste my time on those girls.

Saturday I went to a big meetup event at a bar I hadn't been to before. I went to this solely for the sake of practicing. I gave myself a game to say hi to everyone at the meetup (and whoever else I wanted to say hi to). I didn't bother counting, but I had to have approached at least 50 people that night. Possibly more. Nothing in terms of results came from it. No girls there were interested. Afterward I went to a close by salsa night. Didn't feel like driving far at that point in the night. I said before that I wanted to take a break from salsa. This night reaffirmed it. I didn't go to the salsa night to meet girls. I just wanted to fucking dance and practice my rusty salsa. Unfortunately the girls all acted the same as they have previously. Just so cold. Like, no one else was there to just let loose and have a good time. Toward the end of the night I spotted a friend. We were chatting about our night and the topic turned to girls. He's also pretty new to meeting girls so we're speaking the same language here. I tell him how I've been struggling lately and trying to comprehend what's wrong with me. I say it's got to be something about my vibe or 'appearance' that I can't detect. He provided some useful feedback. He said I just don't look confident. Even if I feel fine on the inside, even though I just came from warming up with 50 opens, even though I was wanting to dance to have fun.... somehow my appearance still screamed 'lacking confidence.' Very useful feedback, but not sure how to improve it. I'm already trying to be in as confident a state of mind as possible so I don't know how you do that... more so.

Sunday I was invited to a friend's party. It was very fun. Lasted all afternoon and evening. A couple black friends were there. It was fascinating to watch them and observe why they do so well with women. They have one mood: always positive and happy. They are loud in a good way and love being the center of attention. They're always 'leading' the other people they're with toward having fun. Definitely great traits for attracting girls. I definitely need to work on those.