Integration: Taking Girlchase to the next level and content we need to see

[The Emerald Archer]

@Chase

Thanks for that breakdown Chase, I know you've mentioned in the past how much time + energy it takes to be a high-ranking member of a popular/party circle, but never realized just how much work it was until you broke it down.

Also, when you mention that the main incentive is for pairing up and that you can get higher-quality gals with less effort with cold approach... that just really puts it into perspective.

I am curious though, I thought "cool" and "high-status" were relative terms. Is that not true? Or are you going off of what the mainstream thinks is high-status and cool like high-end clubbing, VIP tables, Instagram selfies and snapchats showing off how "cool" of a life you live, throwing money around, etc.?

It seems like the types of circles you mention here are party circles with all the glitz and glamor and posting snapchats and Instagram selfies out at the club. That may be the definition of "cool" to some folks, but then there are others who may view people who like to do drugs, binge-drink and jockey for status and attention as shallow, or even people with problems in their life that they're trying to escape/can't deal with responsibly.

I know for me when I think of high-status or "cool" I think of entrepreneurs who are financially independent or someone who is living life on their own terms and has a lot of freedom to travel and experience cool new things in life such as digital nomad or freelancer.

What do you think about this?

 

[Train]

Do both, no need to limit yourself.
Cold approach is great because you can literally do it anytime you want.

For sure, I agree. If I see a cute girl in a social circle, I wouldn't say no. I meant that the primary goal of social circles for me would be to socialize with like-minded people. As opposed to doing it exclusively for women.

I like the idea of integrating approaching into your life. Whether it's hot, warm, cold, etc. Or even for platonic reasons. Powerful stuff, being able to initiate connections.

 

[Sub-Zero]

For sure, I agree. If I see a cute girl in a social circle, I wouldn't say no. I meant that the primary goal of social circles for me would be to socialize with like-minded people. As opposed to doing it exclusively for women.

I like the idea of integrating approaching into your life. Whether it's hot, warm, cold, etc. Or even for platonic reasons. Powerful stuff, being able to initiate connections.

Exactly

 

[Chase]

@Oh Pry,

Now you discount the value of social status but I kind of have to disagree with you to an extent. As great as cold approach might be, I almost find that it has a ceiling. I find that the hottest women are not going to consider men who seem like outcasts or do not have a lot of social connections. Even on your posts, you have said to be weary of women who are out alone so I do not know why it is important for us to warn men to build that social network relevant to their life values.

...

Pickup in and of its own, the act of approaching random women is morally seen as unacceptable, at least in America where society is so uptight and morally self-righteous. It leads to so many PUAs being social outcasts and just focusing on "game" but I feel as if really, we should be integrating social skills and being good with people into the PUA life.

That way, you have a social life and are good with game.

Then after that, focusing on staying good with game but also surrounding yourself with the network and crowd that is conducive to that.

I want to be in a situation where I am not just getting laid but I have a decent enough crew, with hot girls in it, to go out with.

...

I think you are seeing it as any "cool guy", I am not doing it for social leverage over some douchebag with a big ego who happens to hold a title, I am doing it for guys who are my friends that I genuinely care about as people.

You're listing out a bunch of different things here:

1. Oh Pry believes "the hottest women" don't want men who aren't at the top of a really cool social circle
2. Oh Pry believes women are wary of men who are alone, because Chase has advised men to be wary of women who are alone
3. Meeting girls is socially unacceptable, unless you are part of a group of cool people, at which point it is then socially acceptable
4. Oh Pry wants to have a cool circle / crowd that helps him to meet girls
5. Oh Pry wants to have friends he genuinely cares about as people (but who also, presumably, have the correct social status / network status)

What I am hearing from that is basically "I do not have access to the women I want, and I believe the right crew will help me get them."

Presumably the women you actually want are the ones who roll in all the high status groups and look / appear to be high status.

These women are going specifically for high status men from high status groups, and you believe (somewhat correctly) that the most reliable way to get these women is to be a part of their groups.

There is also some talk here about wanting to socialize and genuinely care about people, but only people who have a sufficient number of status markers. So kinda like "I want a good group of guys who genuinely all cares about each other, but they have to be high status."

I will just say in my experience the more you get into circles where people very much care about status, the less you are running into people who very much care about people. The deeper you get into status chasing, the more you are dealing with people who are also into status chasing, which means they will cast you aside if your status dips too low, they will kiss up to you and brown nose you if your status is too high, and they will try to knife you in the back and climb over you if it is not clear you are definitely way lower or way higher than they are.

I have personally dealt with all this with status-focused people. Them kissing up to me when lower level, then them trying to knife me or dismiss me when they decide I am higher level. Then later if they think maybe we are actually close in level again or I might be higher level, suddenly they are back trying to kiss up to me again. It is disgusting.

Anyway, I discussed all this extensively in one of the first articles on this site:

Archive: Ultimate Social Calibration: Stop Climbing the Social Ladder

I just read a fascinating article today that brings scientific research to bear on the topic of an old post I made that went on to be featured on some popular dating and seduction websites. The content still resonates and is still relevant today, and so I've reposted again here for you to see...

www.girlschase.com

And went into detail on other aspects of it in this one:

Granting Social Status; and, Not Getting Thrown Under the Bus

I recently completed an almost 2-hour interview with Glenn Pierce (formerly just Glenn P), a really sharp and talented guy who taught me a thing or two when I wanted to kick my daytime approaching up a notch back in early '07, for his upcoming interview series.

www.girlschase.com

and this one:

The Fuzzy World of Social Status

Social status is ‘fuzzy’. That is, you often don’t know exactly where you rank compared to someone else. There are good reasons for this. Social status is a very fuzzy thing. On the one hand, you may have clear social status within a specific group. You may clearly be the alpha male of the group...

www.girlschase.com

However, you are right, if you want status-seeking women (and all the women you are defining as "the hottest" I know are the status seeking ones -- the ones who are not necessarily the most physically beautiful, or the smartest, or the ones with the coolest personality, or the most interesting, but the ones who are on top of these specific exclusive-seeming social groups -- the kinds of girls who have 200,000 followers on Instagram, basically) then being a part of their group is one of the more direct ways there.

Game-wise, I would suggest you study Mystery Method.

You may not want to do more game-stuff, you may think other methods wouldn't work for you, but MM was specifically developed to get "high status" girls in status-filled party environments, by a guy (Erik) who was extremely status-conscious. MM is all about getting the highest status girl in the club (and impressing all her friends and having them want you in their group). Strongly recommend that for you.

Also, non-P.C., but I will note that men of your ethnicity (Indian) in my experience far and away are the most status-conscious men on the planet, bar none. Next closest are probably East Asian men, but most of them pale in comparison to Indian men. I don't know why it is; I don't know if it is cultural or genetic; but I know it is a phenomenon I have seen everywhere, with pretty much every Indian guy. Even the cool Indian guys still do more status jockeying than cool European or African or East Asian guys (though cool East Asian guys will typically do some status jockeying as well, just not as much as Indian guys). So you are going to run into issues trying to talk about this with white, black, and Latino guys, most of whom will never care nearly as much about status as other Indian folks and, to a lesser extent, East Asian and Semitic (Arabic and Jewish) folks.

I will also say that as a guy of European descent, this kind of behavior is pretty off-putting. A lot of the negative reactions you see across the Boards are the result of you trying to impose what we might call "Indian values" on a group that is largely composed of blacks, whites, Asians, and Hispanics, then getting annoyed/upset that we won't see things the Indian way. I have been in a lot of situations with otherwise pretty cool Indian or East Asian guys who then started doing status jockey stuff, seemingly unconsciously and without realizing they were doing it, and it is a big turnoff. If you call them out on it they will deny it and try to make like you are seeing things that are not there, but if you talk to anyone else they will have noticed it and found it as obvious and annoying as you have. Ultimately you just end up not hanging out with those guys because you don't want to deal with that kind of nonsense disrupting the vibe you and all the other cool people in your group have going on.

I suspect this is as much an evolutionary thing as it is a cultural thing. Indian society is constructed of genetically distinct castes that have been separated from each other genetically by millennia. Indian society is so rigidly separated by rank and hierarchy that even its religion is based around orderly hierarchies of beings and reincarnations. This rank preference is also strongly visible in Indian women, and personally I have yet to encounter an Indian who was not extremely hierarchy-conscious, regardless of his level of Americanization. I have met third generation Indians with completely American mannerisms and upbringings who might as well have been straight from Mumbai with the level of status jockeying and rank climbing they do.

What I'm saying is... you care very deeply about a thing most of the guys here do not care about.

I, for one, would rather just have a bunch of cool, powerful, effective friends, and we all bring great art or creations or businesses into the world, make a bunch of money together, and help a lot of people together, and shag truly beautiful, exceptional women, and then chuckle at the status-crazed guys who spend all their time elbowing other status-seeking guys in the backs while they chase after women with mediocre genetics and painted on looks and have to buy a bunch of expensive cars and blow all their money on VIP sections to try to impress these chicks.

As a guy of European descent, the status jockeys never make it to the top of the pile. The highest they ever rise is to the "King's Court" level, and only if the King is a weak guy who needs to have his ass kissed and needs people around willing to fill the sycophant role, or is a clueless guy who doesn't know what he's doing and just accepts around him whoever has clawed his way up to that level. The rest of the time when you get an actually competent, capable King who doesn't need ass kissers, he clears all those people out and strips them of their titles for being useless status chasers. I don't know how it works in Indian society though; presumably since this behavior appears to be enforced within the society and strongly selected for, probably by evolution, this is actually broadly rewarding behavior to engage in if you are an Indian living among other Indians.

When you are an Indian among mostly European-ancestry stock people though, you are going to run into constant frustration doing the Indian status strategy thing.

I'm not really sure what the solution is here. You are trying to do things in a European society using an Indian approach, and then getting frustrated at being stymied doing it, as well as that none of the non-Indians you talk to in your non-Indian society value doing things the Indian way.

The old phrase "When in Rome..." comes to mind here.

I would also add that, in general, in European societies, status of the kind you are seeking involvement in is strongly tied to the ability to throw money around if you are a man. If you are a woman, it is the willingness to reinvest money thrown your way back into your looks (Botox, breast implants, butt implants, nose jobs, dresses, purses, heels, trips to the salon, face lifts when they're older, etc.).

While it is possible to be the cool mostly-broke guy who gets pulled into these circles because he is just that damn cool (and I have done it, and a few other guys on the Boards have done it), you need to be COOL first... the kind of cool that even the guys with money just really want around. And kicking them girls is not the way to do that. Nor is status jockeying, or even seeming to care at all about status, which is going to piss them off, because then it is clear the only thing you have going for you is wanting what they have (which makes you just like everybody else).

From your obsession over race and status it is clear you do not have the right mentality to be the cool guy who gets sucked into a high status group purely on the back of his own merit.

If I was you and this was really that important to me, I would make "Get rich AF" my #1 priority, and do nothing but that until I got there.

Either that, or "learn Mystery Method and get very good at it."

Chase

 

[Rain]

When you are looking at a thing where the ultimate point for almost everyone involved is to a.) get laid and then later on b.) have a relationship, the question has to be "What is the most efficient, effective way to do this, that brings me the highest quality results, for the least amount of work?"

And well developed cold approach does this much, much better than party guy social circle lifestyle maintenance does.

I vaguely remember, you wrote an article or it may have just been part of an article or a comment reply on an article, about how only "xyz % of women are open to cold approach".

Eg, most women are open to approach through social circle, work , stuff like that. But only a limited number of women who are single would be willing to meet a new guy for sex turned into LTR outside of any form of social circle.

I can't find the link, so I'm not sure if you said it or something like that, does it ring bells at all?

 

[Chase]

@Rain-

Don't remember exactly what I wrote, but it was probably more along the lines of (and my normal stance is) only certain women are very open to cold approach. Many other types of women are a lot more closed to cold approach. In general.

The more closed a girl is to cold approach, the more dependent you are on being the kind of guy she is looking for, or coming in exactly the right way, and on her mood on your approach.

Mood is also extremely important, because a girl who would normally be very open to being approached by strangers will have times when nobody could get anywhere with her, no matter how dreamy the guy or how good his game, and a girl who would normally be almost totally closed to cold approach will have occasions where almost anyone could meet her if he recognizes she's open to it and jumps on it when she is.

In general, the more open-to-experiences girls and the more curious girls are easier to meet via cold approach.

The more reserved girls and the girls who are more conformist tend to be less easy to meet via cold approach.

Though again, if a girl is, say, an ultra conformist bottle blonde gym bunny, and you are the stereotypical roid ripped spiky haired cool gym dudebro, you are going to not have too hard a time cold approaching her... because you are going to approach you and she is going to say "Oh! One of my people!" If you are not her 'type' though, and are not willing to turn yourself into her type, it is generally going to be easier to get her via social circle.

Thus why I said the strategy Oh Pry is talking about may actually be the most reliable strategy for him -- because he is not (from anything I can tell) the kind of guy a plastic status-seeker gold digger type girl is after. So he is going to have a hard time with these kinds of girls in cold approach, unless his approach game is ultra tight (and it sounds like he is mostly meeting women via dating apps, which means his cold approach game is not ultra tight, or he would not be mostly relying on dating apps).

So, for him, the two option really seem to be:

1. Get rich and get inducted into these groups the normal way (actually qualify for these social circles, then run social circle game)
2. Learn Mystery Method and learn specific game that works on these types of girls so he can do targeted cold approach

The third way -- the "GC way" -- is "become a really cool dude who gets sucked into these circles naturally even if he isn't rich, and also be cool enough that these girls view you as someone worth meeting out and about when you approach even if not specifically their type" -- but he is too resistant to adopt the mentalities or do the things necessary for this option.

Back to the girls, there is also the fact that the more closed girls are more closed generally, so social circle guys just have an easier time with them overall because these guys are around them a lot more and are usually the first to see it when these girls finally open their windows up a bit.

Thus, what social circle usually is in most cases is the guy trading a lot of his time in order to be first in line for a handful of girls when they finally come up and are free.

Chase

 

[Rain]

Don't remember exactly what I wrote, but it was probably more along the lines of (and my normal stance is) only certain women are very open to cold approach. Many other types of women are a lot more closed to cold approach. In general.

The more closed a girl is to cold approach, the more dependent you are on being the kind of guy she is looking for, or coming in exactly the right way, and on her mood on your approach.

Sometimes variables can be annoying! So the more game/fundamentals you get, the more you may become someones type, or close enough, along with occasionally being someones type by default, as in the example you gave.

So its probably hard for you to put a percentage number on it? Because, it depends on them and on their mood?

In general, the more open-to-experiences girls and the more curious girls are easier to meet via cold approach.

The more reserved girls and the girls who are more conformist tend to be less easy to meet via cold approach.

Would the more open-to-experiences girls and more curious girls , despite being easier to meet via cold approach, be more likely to cheat due to their more novelty seeking nature, by default?
So you'd be better off actually finding one thats a bit more closed off.... but still open because you're her type and/or you're became closer to her type with game/fundamentals. Or she happened to be more open to cold approach on that day.

But how do you tell, if she accepted your approach, was it due to you being close enough to her type and she would normally closed off vs she is part of that "certain type of woman very open to cold approach"?

 

[pinpin]

But how do you tell, if she accepted your approach, was it due to you being close enough to her type and she would normally closed off vs she is part of that "certain type of woman very open to cold approach"?

I don't think you can know without trying to escalate? - or maybe it just becomes obvious after a few mins

Saw this post which kind of touches on it?:

LR - A long slog with eventual success

Decided to head out for a Sunday beer as it's holiday season Approach on girl in my local pub down the road. She was with a friend at the bar. I opened them whilst ordering my beer. Went with an opinion opener. She didn't seem to really want to talk but that's kind of expected'. I 'rooted' the...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[trashKENNUT]

but I have found looking back, my most fun moments in life were when I was out with a cute girl and a large group of people as we felt like a part of a "tribe" and did fun things like get drunk, go to an awesome rooftop, have fun, and I was no longer the lonely PUA.

You don't have to limit yourself man.

I have the feeling that you prefer to fuse long term and short term per se relationship.

It is possible but you have to always find areas where ppl are 'college driven', if that makes sense.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

@Chase

No worries about being non-PC, you offered great insight which is frankly true but I have to challenge you here so you can see where this all originated from.

To give you a little backstory about myself, I was born and raised in the United States and was hardly around any Indians growing up. While what you said about Indians is true, I am going to say that my interest in this status world was actually brought up in my college days where I went to a mostly white university (top 10 party school). Now @Chase, it was in those days being surrounded by white people that I had my exposure to the status games, how much Greek letters matter, and how your affiliations matter. The whole popularity contests, cool crowd, and all of that.

So while Indians have been the punching bags (for good reason at times), I often find that whites are just as bad with this thing in the US. Sure it varies based on background too, you are from the east coast where people are more individualistic (although I did go to an East Coast party school) but if you go to say the southern states, it is very much the way of life here from my close friends who game in cities like Atlanta and Dallas.

As you can see, my worries and my paranoia about status did not originate from my Indian roots. It originated when I saw that even in the land of the free where I was born, this was very much an important thing.

All of this importance of status thing you do talk about, I didn't get it from being Indian, as a matter of fact I hardly cared about it before starting. It was when I went to an east coast party school full of kids from Long Island, Jersey, and other wealthier areas of the country that I found it to have importance. Often finding that the hottest girls were in sororities and usually off limits unless you paid to be in a fraternity, a lot of whom were very selective on who they gave bids to (relying on family connections and such).

So while what you say about India is right and I have certainly seen Indian men who fit that mold, let's not pretend that American society lacks its flaws there to. In some US cities, you are not getting the most genetically beautiful women or hot girls unless you have social connections and status.

Now as for what I do want long-term.

I want to get a point that I talked about, to use game to meet women and form social circles.

The male friendships I have are genuine with cool guys who have same interests as me.

Long-term, I don't want to rely on cold approach. I want to build a lifestyle that gets hot women in my life, puts me in touch with guys who have access to hot women and introduce me to them, and similarly puts me in a situation where I can introduce guys to hot women too if I want (these being guys I genuinely like even if they are not stereotypically cool).

Sure, months ago for me it was all "be high status or be at top of pyramid".

Now it has changed to:

1. I just want hot girls (good looking women regardless of status).

2. I want socially adjusted guy friends who love partying and also gaming women (regardless of their social standing).

3. I want to be able to create a life long-term where I meet hot women due to my lifestyle and have friends/connections that are introducing me to hot girls.

4. I want to be able to do the same for number 2.

5. I want to be able to grow my social life to where parties have hot girls and guy friends I care about in them, some of whom might be able to bring hot girls too.

Do I care about being "cool" as much? Not really. I mean I now have set my standard for what I think is cool even if others judge. I have hot girls in my life and friends I genuinely get along with, are on my wavelength, and that is that. So what if they are not high status by society standards, if they party and have their lives together, that's all I really care of.

I'll get more into this but I think RSD's Luke and latest RSD content really touches on this and why cold approach is not the best tool even though it helps.

 

[Chase]

@The Emerald Archer,

Missed this earlier:

I am curious though, I thought "cool" and "high-status" were relative terms. Is that not true? Or are you going off of what the mainstream thinks is high-status and cool like high-end clubbing, VIP tables, Instagram selfies and snapchats showing off how "cool" of a life you live, throwing money around, etc.?

They're relative terms, yeah.

(all terms are relative, if you want to be philosophical about it )

I am using them the way Oh Pry uses them.

Which is the way the mainstream uses them.

He wants to live the ideal TV trope mainstream lifestyle, like what you see in Hollywood.

So that's what I am speaking to... more or less.

It seems like the types of circles you mention here are party circles with all the glitz and glamor and posting snapchats and Instagram selfies out at the club. That may be the definition of "cool" to some folks, but then there are others who may view people who like to do drugs, binge-drink and jockey for status and attention as shallow, or even people with problems in their life that they're trying to escape/can't deal with responsibly.

Yeah, exactly.

This stuff often seems glamorous and ultra cool when you are the outsider looking in.

Then once you have been an insider for a bit, you realize it is hollow, a bunch of conformist people trying to be like what they saw on TV.

It is why 2Pac calls them "phonies in the club" and why other high level rappers call them poseurs. Meanwhile, the lower level rappers (who have not made it into the upper echelons) are all about aspiring to that club lifestyle.

I know for me when I think of high-status or "cool" I think of entrepreneurs who are financially independent or someone who is living life on their own terms and has a lot of freedom to travel and experience cool new things in life such as digital nomad or freelancer.

What do you think about this?

Oh yeah, for sure.

My own personal definition of cool does not really include a 9-to-5 dude who hangs out with the cool kids at the club on the weekend blowing through his IB paycheck on bottle service and Instagram divas.

I know exactly what that guy's life is like and the trajectory he is on and where he will be in 20 years. And it is pretty boring and uncool.

At the same time, I realize people who have not had much exposure to those circles will tend to pedestalize people living that lifestyle.

Free thinking digital nomads and entrepreneurs who have lived in multiple countries and are totally unplugged from any single matrix and able to discuss things to a deeper and more insightful level that most people don't realize exist / can't properly process if you try to discuss it with them are the cool people in my book.

But, in this thread, I am using the best language available to me to discuss a given paradigm of 'cool'.

A lot of what I do with GC is having to discuss guys' specific perspectives and situations, that maybe don't fully overlap with my own.

And in general I do not go super deep into my own opinions or predilections too much -- you know the old "opinions are like assholes" saying.

The site is "girls chase / skilled seducer", rather than "Chase's personal opinion page"


@Rain,

Sometimes variables can be annoying! So the more game/fundamentals you get, the more you may become someones type, or close enough, along with occasionally being someones type by default, as in the example you gave.

So its probably hard for you to put a percentage number on it? Because, it depends on them and on their mood?

You are often not going to know exactly whom or what a girl really is until you have known her a few months and had a lot of good conversations with her and observed her behavior in a variety of conditions. And she has revealed some of her unexpected secrets.

The only thing that happens over time is you realize how often you are not totally 100% on point with your initial guesses about women, as you spend more time getting to know more of the women you bed and keep around.

Also, behavior will change in different moods.

I have known girls who were usually super flirty and open who met a guy during a down mood, and the guy thought the girl was some reserved chick he somehow opened up, when in fact "opened up" was her default.

And I have had girls I got together with in some rare instance when they were pretty open, and discovered that normally they are quite reserved, won't talk to strangers at all, etc.

I think the natural inclination for most guys is to assume that a girl is like however she was when you met her.

Sometimes that is true... a lot of times it isn't.

Goes both ways, too. I have had girlfriends tell me I am way more charming in public than I am at a home. I am still attractive at home, but I am... gruff, and distracted, and not always as attentive or captivating.

But in public with an audience I turn into Charisma Man and everyone is captivated and the girl herself finds me entrancing.

I did not realize I did that until I had girls point it out to me.

Would the more open-to-experiences girls and more curious girls , despite being easier to meet via cold approach, be more likely to cheat due to their more novelty seeking nature, by default?
So you'd be better off actually finding one thats a bit more closed off.... but still open because you're her type and/or you're became closer to her type with game/fundamentals. Or she happened to be more open to cold approach on that day.

It depends.

Openness to experience / curiosity is one factor that can increase a woman's likelihood to cheat.

But there are other factors. How emotionally changeable she is. How impulsive she is. How duty-bound she is (i.e., is she the type of girl who will feel an obligation to care for an ailing parent, or is she more likely to want to stick that parent in a rest home?). How petty and vengeful she is. How high her sex drive is. What her socio-sexuality is (i.e., how slutty vs. how prudish she is). What specifically she thinks of her relationship with you (is this going somewhere? Or is this probably not going anywhere? Or did it use to be good but is headed for a cliff?). Etc.

I really struggle to deal with closed minded people personally, because I am a person who is just interested in everything and willing to consider any possibility. So too much closed mindedness in a person I have to regularly deal with is torture.

So for me, personally, I will go for girls who are reasonably open to new experience, but not total thrill seekers, and just screen for other qualities that make them less likely to stray (like not being sociosexually unrestricted, not being someone who shirks obligations, not being vengeful/petty, etc.).

But how do you tell, if she accepted your approach, was it due to you being close enough to her type and she would normally closed off vs she is part of that "certain type of woman very open to cold approach"?

Only way for sure is with time as you get to know her.

There is no good way I know of to quickly and easily differentiate between generally open girls who accepted you because they are generally open vs. girls who are not generally open but were open to you because you were their type, the mood was right, etc.

(even at the poles, it can be deceptive -- I have met girls who came across as distant and reserved on approach, then as I got to know them I discovered they met a LOT of men. These girls are always the most confusing... how does this girl meet so many men being as closed off and unemotional as she is? Do a lot of guys like that? There is also the odd girl here and there who seems super bubbly and open but claims to barely ever meet men. I don't like bubbly girls enough to date them and stick around long enough to verify whether that is true or just something she is saying to seem more relationship-worthy, but you'd assume if there are closed-seeming girls who are actually open, there are probably a few open-seeming girls who are actually closed. Anyway, the whole thing is a head trip once you start digging into it)


@Oh Pry,

I'm not punching on Indians.

I am talking about a specific observation I have personally had over the years. Across a broad swath of anecdotes.

The most annoyingly hierarchy-obsessed professor I have had was the one Indian professor I had. Every Indian guy I have rolled with in the field has done little annoying status-y things around me with other people. I have had white guys and a black guy do that too, but not all of them... it is a small minority of them. With Indian guys, it has been every one.

Sometimes I will meet an Indian guy who seems cool and say "Finally! One free from the status games!" and then he will start status jockeying me.

And I am so disappoint.

Anyway.

The thing with Greek life -- okay sure, that was the trigger.

There are a lot of guys with a lot of exposure to Greek life, including myself and almost everyone on this forum, that are not affected this way.

So obviously this woke a specific thing up in you, specifically, and affected you in a way different from a lot of people.

I have not spend a ton of time in the South, so can't speak to that. Maybe that is the case.

In some US cities, you are not getting the most genetically beautiful women or hot girls unless you have social connections and status.

Maybe.

I have yet to see a city like this though.

IME, most socialite women are not top tier in terms of genetic looks.

However, they are VERY good at doing makeup, fashion, some (or a lot of) plastic surgery, etc.

And you know -- this is also a kind of genetic sexual selection.

Rather than selecting for beauty at the DNA level (which I personally value more highly), you are selecting for the drive to beautify oneself using all available means and climb the social hierarchy (which is a specific personality trait, and actually the one people are advertising when they engage in these pursuits. And more and more over time I am becoming convinced that the lion's share of personality traits are strongly genetic. So there actually does seem to be some genetic sexual selection going on here, with status seekers seeking other successful status seeker mates to produce offspring who are excellent at status seeking themselves. And there are for sure eco-sociological niches for status seeking individuals. But... I digress...).

The male friendships I have are genuine with cool guys who have same interests as me.

What are those interests?

Because you do not need so much game to meet these guys.

Do things where those interested are involved, show that you are skilled at the thing and have interesting things to say about that, and be a cool enough guy (who does not annoy people with any status jockeying or victim mentality!), and likeminded men will want to be around you.

Long-term, I don't want to rely on cold approach. I want to build a lifestyle that gets hot women in my life, puts me in touch with guys who have access to hot women and introduce me to them, and similarly puts me in a situation where I can introduce guys to hot women too if I want (these being guys I genuinely like even if they are not stereotypically cool).

And that is a fine goal. Nothing wrong with it.

Main thing I weighed in to say here, in this thread, was that this is not "next level" -- compared to what the focus is of the site.

That said -- I can certainly understand it is next level for you.

Because it is what you want to do, and it is what you want to do more than cold approach.

Sure, months ago for me it was all "be high status or be at top of pyramid".

Now it has changed to:

Okay. Any movement away from that is interesting and a good evolution.

1. I just want hot girls (good looking women regardless of status).

Cool. Easiest way on Earth to find them is day game, plus training yourself to recognize physical, genetic beauty, and not be distracted by a.) makeup, b.) hair, c.) clothes, d.) skin on display.

This takes some training, but will let you find some real diamonds who are not in flashy mode, and thus not getting hit on and fending off approaches, thus are not bitchy, thus as way more open to meeting people.

Sometimes these turn out to actually be flashy hot girls who just didn't wear their makeup out that day. And you get a "steal" (if what you actually want is a flashy hot girl, who is also actually a genuinely beautiful girl who is then flashy hot on top of that).

Sometimes they are girls who don't care as much about makeup or clothes. Then you need to make a judgment call on how important that is to you.

I've had the experience of bedding girls who are beautiful and flashy when I met them, but actually aren't normally flashy and were just going through a brief flashy phase, then became non-flashy once dating. Which is a bit of a let down, but not huge, since I'm not hyper-focused on the girl always having to look flashy, and really what I care most about is "How good does this girl look butt naked?" And if her genes are good, and she takes reasonable care of herself, you are going to be pretty happy with that.

Anyway, that is me. Maybe that is useful to you or other guys (or maybe not?).

2. I want socially adjusted guy friends who love partying and also gaming women (regardless of their social standing).

In that case you should not be trying to get them by throwing women at them.

Especially if you are doing mostly dating apps, and these are guys who love gaming -- they are probably going to be better at cold approach than you are.

Instead, I would be going out, chatting up cool guys, being a cool guy myself, and talking to women around him. If he sees that you can talk to women without being retarded, unless he is a weirdo he will generally want to keep in touch. This is something I have found to be true across the board in every city across the world -- cool guys like other cool guys who are cool with them and also cool with women. It is somewhat hard for most guys to find other guys who are not completely retarded around women, so just being able to talk to a woman in a chill way and get her flirting even a little bit is usually all you need.

3. I want to be able to create a life long-term where I meet hot women due to my lifestyle and have friends/connections that are introducing me to hot girls.

4. I want to be able to do the same for number 2.

This is doable.

It is, however, a lot of work.

The biggest aspect of the work is group maintenance over time. Because people are going to leave your group over time. And eventually most groups collapse. The venues you go to close. The people all leave. Stuff that used to be cool and a group could cohere around stops being cool and no one wants to do it anymore.

Grab the charisma/lifestyle product when I have that out. There is an entire 30 or 40 minute lesson on exactly this (this is Lesson 4 of the Lifestyle section... the title is "Maintaining Lifestyles Long-Term").

5. I want to be able to grow my social life to where parties have hot girls and guy friends I care about in them, some of whom might be able to bring hot girls too.

Do I care about being "cool" as much? Not really. I mean I now have set my standard for what I think is cool even if others judge. I have hot girls in my life and friends I genuinely get along with, are on my wavelength, and that is that. So what if they are not high status by society standards, if they party and have their lives together, that's all I really care of.

I'll get more into this but I think RSD's Luke and latest RSD content really touches on this and why cold approach is not the best tool even though it helps.

Sure, that is cool.

There is a lot you can do to pull it off.

There are different personality types in the world, too.

Some guys genuinely want a lot of friendly social interaction, with the occasional lay from that, but really the most important thing for them is having this circle of friends to hang out with.

Pickup is generally more of a loner's game. It is a lot more efficient and gives you much better choice than social circle, but if you specifically need that kind of hanging out and shooting the breeze with people (and really, I think more people need / want that than not), then building your crew is quite possibly the way to go.

But -- please -- none of this "this place needs to level up and get on the next level with the social circle bandwagon" stuff.

It is cool if you like to hang out with your bros and hit on the chicks that come over. That is cool. Nobody is knocking it.

It is not however "next level" to being able to go out anytime, any place, and pick out a girl who is exactly what you are looking for, and know how to go take your shot with her, and go in without being afraid of rejection, and getting her contact info, and setting up the date with her, and putting your Johnston in her, then turning her into an FWB or girlfriend or open relationship or wife.

As other guys in this thread have said, the site is "Skilled Seducer" not "Skilled Socializer" -- while socializing is a part of what we do here, the focus is on putting men and women together.

(there are always a million directions guys want this website to grow in. I have had many men tell me it is time for us to focus more on politics, it is time for us to focus more on serious relationships and marriage, it is time for us to focus more on fitness and getting ripped, it is time for us to focus more on spirituality and philosophy, it is time for us to focus more on many things. While these things are interesting to me as well, you can imagine what would happen to this website if it started to be about everything. It would stop being about what it is about. As interested as I am in a wide range of topics, it is crucial to this site's mission that it keep its focus on helping guys better meet and bed women... and getting girls chasing you)

Chase

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

@Chase

First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to invest in all of us and reply to what concerns us, given your calendar I am sure that this is not an easy thing to do.

As for the Indian thing, maybe you are on to something but from my own observation, I have noticed this a lot more from Americans than Indians. To be fair though, I care more about what some guy with access to hot western women values more than some Indian FOB at times so perhaps there is that element to it but it is definitely there with Americans.

For genetic looks, I get that too. Tall with good facial features is better than some club chick with too much makeup. In my college days though, I kinda feel like it was the genetically gifted hot blonde with a symmetrical face and tall height who went for the popular frat guy.

Moving on, yeah you do have a point about this site, if it loses its roots then what is it really about? I was trying to add that maybe being good with people and being good at forming a community and social circle could benefit in terms of game. RSD has touched on this many times with posts by legendary Distant Light and also RSD Luke doing a video on it, maybe when you have downtime (which is rare for you I understand), you can look into what they were getting at. I think those guys can put it better than I can.

My biggest complaint with pickup has been that it teaches men how to rack up notches and lays by approaching women but it doesn't teach them to socially develop as much. I don't care how anyone tries to normalize it but daygame is not socially normal, it makes you stick out at times in bad ways. I have not really learned it as much.

I do value not just getting laid, that's a part of it. What I value is having had great social experiences and then getting laid.

Sure I might sleep with 5 different women a year as opposed to 50 but those 5 had great experiences behind them, they were not not just lays.

I cannot help but think that building a social life worthwhile has value to game but to be impartial, I am too emotionally vested to talk to you about this objectively man. I am trying to have certain experiences I missed out on which cloud my vision. I hold the belief I do but who knows, like my belief about blonde bombshells, maybe this changes too!

 

[The Emerald Archer]

They're relative terms, yeah.

(all terms are relative, if you want to be philosophical about it )

I am using them the way Oh Pry uses them.

Which is the way the mainstream uses them.

He wants to live the ideal TV trope mainstream lifestyle, like what you see in Hollywood.

So that's what I am speaking to... more or less.

Ok, gotcha! Then it makes sense the way you're using those terms here.

Yeah, exactly.

This stuff often seems glamorous and ultra cool when you are the outsider looking in.

Then once you have been an insider for a bit, you realize it is hollow, a bunch of conformist people trying to be like what they saw on TV.

It is why 2Pac calls them "phonies in the club" and why other high level rappers call them poseurs. Meanwhile, the lower level rappers (who have not made it into the upper echelons) are all about aspiring to that club lifestyle.

Yeah, for sure. I can't spend too much time around those types anymore. That's also a very unhealthy lifestyle and bound to have some consequences longer-term.

I gotta start listening to 2Pac and old-school rap gain haha, those guys were so life smart and had lots of nuggets of wisdom imo.

My own personal definition of cool does not really include a 9-to-5 dude who hangs out with the cool kids at the club on the weekend blowing through his IB paycheck on bottle service and Instagram divas.

I know exactly what that guy's life is like and the trajectory he is on and where he will be in 20 years. And it is pretty boring and uncool.

At the same time, I realize people who have not had much exposure to those circles will tend to pedestalize people living that lifestyle.

Free thinking digital nomads and entrepreneurs who have lived in multiple countries and are totally unplugged from any single matrix and able to discuss things to a deeper and more insightful level that most people don't realize exist / can't properly process if you try to discuss it with them are the cool people in my book.

Yes, exactly! The part about being unplugged from the matrix and being able to discuss ideas at a deep and more insightful level than the masses also contributes a huge factor in my definition of cool as well.

Cool, thanks for clearing that up Chase, and for sharing what your definition of "cool" is!

 

[Skills]

.

I, for one, would rather just have a bunch of cool, powerful, effective friends, and we all bring great art or creations or businesses into the world, make a bunch of money together, and help a lot of people together, and shag truly beautiful, exceptional women, and then chuckle at the status-crazed guys who spend all their time elbowing other status-seeking guys in the backs while they chase after women with mediocre genetics and painted on looks and have to buy a bunch of expensive cars and blow all their money on VIP sections to try to impress these chicks.

While it is possible to be the cool mostly-broke guy who gets pulled into these circles because he is just that damn cool (and I have done it, and a few other guys on the Boards have done it), you need to be COOL first... the kind of cool that even the guys with money just really want around. And kicking them girls is not the way to do that. Nor is status jockeying, or even seeming to care at all about status, which is going to piss them off, because then it is clear the only thing you have going for you is wanting what they have (which makes you just like everybody else).

From your obsession over race and status it is clear you do not have the right mentality to be the cool guy who gets sucked into a high status group purely on the back of his own merit.

If I was you and this was really that important to me, I would make "Get rich AF" my #1 priority, and do nothing but that until I got there.

Either that, or "learn Mystery Method and get very good at it."

Chase

^ i was going to write a post on dan bilzirian stuff, cause i know o pry is big on that (though i disagree the girls he gets are hookers, though he has not problem paying and has paid hookers, is mostly women that want to get more followers and kardashian light status)....

Second, you see how chase brings up race (in your case base on your response o pry does not apply to you) but that is on you with constantly making the "race" post.

So now my point which was summarized by chase in the first paragraph me quoting him, One of my wings does Dan balzirian type game, but i totally hate it and i hate hanging out with him at times, Basically is going into vip $$$$, becoming a regular (vip regular that is),, since he is a regular on vip little by little getting leads and knowing women who some of them are also regulars are inviting them to a pre-party in his house (big ass house mini mansion with jacuzzi, pool table, stripper pool, pool, lake), when he invites gets over he pays for the ubber of them at times and the friends etc... he is a computer programmer with tons of money.... Funny thing we always talks about pre-selection and mistery method, cause he does pull and good quality girls (and gets 3 somes a lot).... I do not agree that the quality is lower but is not different and as chase says is very kind of "fake" he really goes for really young 18-21 women sometimes slips the 17(oh his about 34). My feelings about him is that i feel sometimes like he is being used (he does get girls but i personally do not think is that sexual raw desire that you get from cold approach imo), he is also a serial monogamist but with a twist (i don't know if the community has a name for this), were he gets the girl to help him with the pick up for 3 somes..... I personally find the game that is not for me and my tastes, i also find it boring and expensive, he does have now a nice car but is irrelevant since he mostly use ubber or others give him a rides.... As chase implies i am the cool broke friend in, that always rejects his invitation i find this type of game nauseous, but to each is on, i also hate pulling to his mansion it totally is 50 million times harder for me to get laid, cause monkey see monkey do i get lumped into "he must be like him too" vs when i pull to my studio... Anyways, o pry this is my advice for you and based ON YOUR NEEDS:

- As chase says this will need mm type game AND MONEY unless you become cool enough were you bring value with no money
- go check your hormone levels.(free t and total t, see if there is a problem there, i doubt it at 27 but i seem guys as low as 23 in a forum i am member of with levels of 80 year old men)
-forget about your race and age stuff (you do not even look like the sitcom indians, you are good looking exotic guy), the age bro, this one there is 0 doubt in my mind is total bs SPECIALLY AT 27 for god sake lol...
-Don't quit posting cause you are having issues with some mods, just either take action or stop with same post 100 times in different ways.
-Rsd luke does have some posts on social circle there was a better guy who used to post for rsd distantlight cause he actually did it with no money... if you can find out his stuff, was better, but chase also is pretty good based on what i read matches what i see (just disagree with him saying quality lower)

 

[Teevster]

I have had plenty of nights of when I went out, met a girl, and took her home. Doing it enough though, I felt like while it was fun, I kind of wanted community in my life but that is tough to find when you are not the most morally upright man on the planet. A lot of the community I could find was against drinking, partying hard, and was more about being seen as "pure" or morally self-righteous (professional groups, religious organizations, and overall goody two shoes).

I still remember back to my old days in college when I was always the loner on the outside looking in, not a part of any social groups and always going out alone. I don't want that in my life anymore.

I want to have a decent enough group to go out with which consists of hot girls and a couple of cool guy friends.

This may sound like a joke, but it is not:

Have you considering joining the swinger crowd? These people are very moraled laid back and ulike professional and religious organizations, they drink and party.

You want a community - or a sense of belonging - well the swinger community is great! tons of nice and intelligent and cool people, and pretty relaxed atmosphere. I have many times enjoyed going to a swingersclub without even having sex with anyone, just being there, drink and talk to the people.

Many people there are very intelligent, and even more of them are high status males (although it depends on the swingersclub).

You may meet more women...


And since you enjoy giving women to high status male, you will have your chance there - and it is also an environment where this is appreciated. You may even get a girl to fuck in exchange for one of your, and there you are... all knowing each other.

You may also even enjoy see your girl get fucked by a high status man (cuckolding). In this case, this can be done without judgement in these environments and you may even find experienced bulls.

Just a suggestion.

Teevster

 

[Skills]

This may sound like a joke, but it is not:

Have you considering joining the swinger crowd? These people are very moraled laid back and ulike professional and religious organizations, they drink and party.

You want a community - or a sense of belonging - well the swinger community is great! tons of nice and intelligent and cool people, and pretty relaxed atmosphere. I have many times enjoyed going to a swingersclub without even having sex with anyone, just being there, drink and talk to the people.

Many people there are very intelligent, and even more of them are high status males (although it depends on the swingersclub).

You may meet more women...


And since you enjoy giving women to high status male, you will have your chance there - and it is also an environment where this is appreciated. You may even get a girl to fuck in exchange for one of your, and there you are... all knowing each other.

You may also even enjoy see your girl get fucked by a high status man (cuckolding). In this case, this can be done without judgement in these environments and you may even find experienced bulls.

Just a suggestion.

Teevster

^ actually this is genius! yep, is not the low class swinger type is actually the high class swinger clubs (or communities), just to clarify cause people have the wrong view about swinger clubs....


And if you do join the high class swinger clubs, you will, get addicted to it, you may never want to do cold approach again... And yes it does match kind of what you are looking for....

here is a post i made about swing clubs (unfortunately now not the right timing probably 6 months to a year from now):

Swinger club game - The Skills Method

This is more for advance players that have been in seduction for at least couple of years and are getting consistent results. The second group I recommend this is for … Continue Reading →

www.theskillsmethod.com

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Whenever Chase posts you voluntarily read it over so many times because it is wisdom from a handsome redhead sage (no homo).

As someone raised in the American south but has traveled all over after his school days, I can confirm that social circles and status are the way to go if you want to get with some of the better looking women. You have what I call a Country Club culture down south where your family history and a social connections determine whether or not women will actually want to sleep with you.

Now when a southern woman is on holiday though? You can best bet that she will be among the sluttiest girls on the trip wanting to try as much different type of cock as she can. Often times the girls from these sorts of cliquish cultures get loose when on vacation.

I've not only seen this down south but also in other cultures too, a lot of times I find that this high value placed on a social hierarchy comes from an inferiority complex. Many times these cultures are either repressed sexually or they feel like they have something to prove which results in the people from them judging others too much or constantly trying to one-up someone. Genuinely cool people don't do this, they are secure in themselves enough to just kind of enjoy the moment and not care about that enough. It is the people who are trying to compensate for something that play these sorts of games.

Do understand the frustrations here though, it can be hell to be in places where that culture predominates. Cold approaching kind of becomes a bit nullified and you have to learn to get the right people to like you enough to introduce you to women.

The following kinds of cultures I find status jockey a lot or are just real big on the social hierarchy thing compared to others:

• American Southerners (particularly if they are from Georgia or Alabama, really bad in Atlanta)
• People from Los Angeles (don't see this too much in San Diego though)
• Europeans from the Mediterranean (Italians in particular)
• Middle Eastern people (Persians are really bad at this)
• Chinese people (don't see it too much from other Asians
• Indians are among the worst at it

 

[pinpin]

One of my wings does Dan balzirian type game. Regular on vip little by little getting leads and knowing women who some of them are also regulars are inviting them to a pre-party in his house (big ass house mini mansion with jacuzzi, pool table, stripper pool, pool, lake). Tons of money..he really goes for really young 18-21 women sometimes slips the 17(oh his about 34). he gets the girl to help him with the pick up for 3 somes

Damn, I wanna get re-incarnated as this dude!

 

[Skills]

Damn, I wanna get re-incarnated as this dude!

nothing special about him, very soft voice, a bit feminine vibe, wears a hat all the time, bold and short... lay count 150.... but all he does is party (another advantage) he has a phone app that is how he made his money, so he is on automatic pilot....

 

[pinpin]

nothing special about him

Fun life, though! That's what it's all about.
So, do the 17-18 year olds just bang him because of his money? They hope to get some in some way? I've never had money so don't know how it works from that angle, but can't imagine a hot 17 year old banging some guy just because he's loaded. Although if you tell me he's good looking, then it'd make sense. Does he more or less say 'sleep with me and i'll buy you some nice shoes' kind of thing? (assuming they aren't attracted to him)