Integration: Taking Girlchase to the next level and content we need to see

[Velasco]

What does average loan payments have to do with my point?

you said:

"how can these guys (first let us identify who "these guys" we are referring to. For me, when dern said, "After college, a lot of people are focused on their careers and "settling down". I took it to mean recent post-grads that landed good jobs.

So that eliminates
- Guy with big debt problem, no money, and wife supporting him.
- Guy who got graduated with some useless degree, big debt problem, and now works in an unrelated field doing some low status job.

I then, choose a career that would be realistic for a post-graduate serious about his career to hold. And presented the average monthly salary he would be expected to make his first year out of college. This is the person I believe dern had in mind, when he wrote his comment.

I pulled up the average student loan debt, because you said "many" of "these guys" focused on their careers and "setting down" don't have have money because of the huge debts payments that dwarf their monthly income.

So by pulling up the monthly income expected of "these guys" and comparing it to the monthly student loan bill on a 10 year standard repayment plan of the average college grad, its clear that they WOULD have enough money to pay off their bills and settle down after college no problem. Ok so that, that.

Now when he says, "Being an attractive man in 2020 requires more than just game. You need a solid lifestyle (e.g., career, friends), good looks, AND good game"

If it wasn't apparent, he is talking about what he feels is required TODAY to LTR a very hot girl (hb9-10). Not just to get an LTR in general. So your "millions of broke guys graduating from college and are in LTRs" isn't relevant here

Dern makes a contradicting points about how a guy needs money and be part of elite social circles to sleep with hot women or get into LTRs.

he said a guy needs to bring something to the table, which can be money, to be part elite social circles to sleep with hot girls (yes you don't need to roll in these circles to sleep with hot girls) To get into LTRs with hot girls, yes you need money (I'm tired of defending this point, having the same arguments with the same people, making the same comments over and over again, so by LTR I legit mean long term).

 

[flatron]

My behavior just serves to confirm her attraction for me

Interesting way of putting it.

Yes, She MUST find you physically attractive (and some girls, especially hot YOUNG ones can be very picky). If you're not her physical type, it doesn't matter how good your pushpull routines and NLP stories etc are. It's a non-starter.

Now, if you are competing against your twin bro (and you're a handsome dude) the one with better game will win.

"Give me 2 mins and I'll talk my looks away." -Tyler Durden

I love Tyler, but did you see his last vids before he stopped the PUA side of RSD? The vids of him going state to state? He was getting ignored and blown out by the hot teens, and was only able to get the odd makeout with the more average looking girls (and by using his bixsexual girlfriend to basically do the work lol). His game is better than ever, yet his results didn't seem to match up. Almost as if the fact he's now old and fat (looks) played a role? haha

Bradicus is basically a sex tourist. Literally anyone can do what he does. There's literally people on incel forums who vlog their exploits of how their life changed when they go to South East Asia and stuff as a white guy. Don't worry too much about what people trying to sell you courses and stuff want you to believe lol. And JMULV uses hookers! Torero used actresses. They're all lying to you, i'm afraid

Guys... Look at the name of the forum you're in. Read the fucking Game.

That's the issue. You think game is something other than it is! I'm far from a game denier. I still post LR' s here ffs lol. I've read and experimented with everything you can imagine, and I still love 'game'. But game isn't some super power where you can pick any cute girl and use your game on her and get her into bed. It's about being effective at closing the girls who are attracted to you. And that 'attraction' is basically entirely out of your control/ (would you wanna bang a female '2' if she pushpulled you and made you laugh etc?). You need sexual/raw/physical attraction.

Game is about being able to capitalise on that attraction

Luckily different girls have different 'types' when it comes to looks. Something almost everyone doesn't seem to understand. When Tyler approaches 200 hot young girls and pulls the 200th one, people think 'game!!!', without realising she was into bearded older dudes and has daddy issues. The other 199 all wanted a handsome young guy, and weren't gonna settle

 

[Razorjack]

To get into LTRs with hot girls, yes you need money (I'm tired of defending this point, having the same arguments with the same people, making the same comments over and over again, so by LTR I legit mean long term).

I agree with most of what you wrote, but those aren't the same arguments that Dern was making.

And I agree it's tiring flogging the same dead horse, so this will be my last post on this.

The only thing I don't agree with is this broke guys can't be in LTRs. I'm not theorizing, I know this for a fact from personal experience

I personally know and have met lots of guys who are broke and in LTRs with hot women (yes, 9s & 10s) including me.

My first wife has an MBA was working in finance when we met 30 years ago, I was a broke musician. She is a solid 9 according to Scandinavian standards where there are tons of hot women, many would consider her a 10. She supported me for 6 years when I first moved to Sweden and would've gladly kept on supporting me if I needed.

We were together another 5 years and our divorce had zero to do with money

 

[Chrance]

@Chrance
Attraction is either there or it isn't.

If its there, you can turn it into arousal.
if it's not, then your behavior simply can not manipulate it, into being there..

Definition of attractive:
Attractive: providing pleasure or delight, especially in appearance or manner; pleasing; charming; alluring: an attractive personality.

Nothing about this ^^^ implies attractiveness can only decrease and not increase. Being charming, alluring, etc are things in your control. Therefore you can increase your attractiveness through your behavior

You even use the word “attractive personality”. If you have an attractive personality, then you look more attractive. This is very simple logic

Like I said:
You are, knowingly or not, implying that desiring someone cannot be increased through their behavior towards you. <== can you directly prove this false?

Regarding looks:
How do you know it was your looks that got you blownout or your behavior? Literally what way is there to prove that your physical body is what caused her to not like you and not your vibe or her mood? The only way is if she straight up says so, but even this is bad evidence since you don’t know her honesty or if she knows what she’s even talking about.

The beginning parts of the process you laid out is not provable either since your behavior and your looks cannot be viewed separately when you meet someone. So preceding “attractive personality” with (what I’m assuming is) looks is not provable. She cannot observe you without your behavior unless in a photo. Your personality is not detachable from your looks (photo is not a true representation of your physical looks).

Maybe for you attraction cannot increase through behavior but for the rest of the world this happens every day lol and is a part of the definition of attractive.

 

[Chrance]

A girl liking you for your physical attractiveness is 100% KJ until after you approach, hear a rumor or get an invite and even then, you won’t know if it was your looks or behavior that got you rejected. You also won’t know to what degree it was your looks or your behavior that made you attractive enough for sex.

FYI:
- Your muscles are part of your behavior not your looks
- your hair style - behavior not looks
- your current facial expression - behavior not looks
- your style - behavior not looks

The inseparability of looks from behavior makes talking about pure looks pretty useless lol. There is no pure looks. Human beings are not photographs

 

[Carousel]

That's the issue. You think game is something other than it is! I'm far from a game denier. I still post LR' s here ffs lol. I've read and experimented with everything you can imagine, and I still love 'game'. But game isn't some super power where you can pick any cute girl and use your game on her and get her into bed. It's about being effective at closing the girls who are attracted to you. And that 'attraction' is basically entirely out of your control/ (would you wanna bang a female '2' if she pushpulled you and made you laugh etc?). You need sexual/raw/physical attraction.

Game is about being able to capitalise on that attraction

Luckily different girls have different 'types' when it comes to looks. Something almost everyone doesn't seem to understand. When Tyler approaches 200 hot young girls and pulls the 200th one, people think 'game!!!', without realising she was into bearded older dudes and has daddy issues. The other 199 all wanted a handsome young guy, and weren't gonna settle

Low-resolution claim.

Most advanced guys talk about reds, yellows and greens.

The greens only require what you are talking about, however a much larger proportion of women who are initially neutral to you can be flipped with good game.

You can't get every girl from game, neither can you only get those initially attracted.

 

[Sub-Zero]

you said:

"how can these guys (first let us identify who "these guys" we are referring to. For me, when dern said, "After college, a lot of people are focused on their careers and "settling down". I took it to mean recent post-grads that landed good jobs.

So that eliminates
- Guy with big debt problem, no money, and wife supporting him.
- Guy who got graduated with some useless degree, big debt problem, and now works in an unrelated field doing some low status job.

I then, choose a career that would be realistic for a post-graduate serious about his career to hold. And presented the average monthly salary he would be expected to make his first year out of college. This is the person I believe dern had in mind, when he wrote his comment.

I pulled up the average student loan debt, because you said "many" of "these guys" focused on their careers and "setting down" don't have have money because of the huge debts payments that dwarf their monthly income.

So by pulling up the monthly income expected of "these guys" and comparing it to the monthly student loan bill on a 10 year standard repayment plan of the average college grad, its clear that they WOULD have enough money to pay off their bills and settle down after college no problem. Ok so that, that.

Now when he says, "Being an attractive man in 2020 requires more than just game. You need a solid lifestyle (e.g., career, friends), good looks, AND good game"

If it wasn't apparent, he is talking about what he feels is required TODAY to LTR a very hot girl (hb9-10). Not just to get an LTR in general. So your "millions of broke guys graduating from college and are in LTRs" isn't relevant here

he said a guy needs to bring something to the table, which can be money, to be part elite social circles to sleep with hot girls (yes you don't need to roll in these circles to sleep with hot girls) To get into LTRs with hot girls, yes you need money (I'm tired of defending this point, having the same arguments with the same people, making the same comments over and over again, so by LTR I legit mean long term).

What are low status jobs? I know retail and fast food are some, but I’m thinking you mean a little better if the person has a useless degree.

Does having a low status job mess you up with women even if you have the basic living essentials?

 

[Velasco]

First off, good morning, bro Didnt get any sleep last night. Definitely gonna randomly pass out at work today....lol. Aight let me do this real quick

Being charming, alluring, etc are things in your control.

Yes. "Being" charming. You either are or you aren't. Whether or not that is the case, will be taken into consideration after she's accessed your overall look (face, height, physique, style) (which happens instantaneously in the subconscious mind (having a good fashion sense, good physique, nice haircut are fundamentals (which means they are within your control for improvement) that get assessed along side your genetics).
QUOTE="Chrance, post: 115060, member: 6252"]
How do you know it was your looks that got you blownout or your behavior?
[/QUOTE]
There is such thing as unattractive behavior. Opening by studdering over your words, not making eye contact...will slowly kill her attraction for you despite her being initially attracted to you when you were standing with your friends. Behavior doesn't match looks. If she thinks your ugly, and you approach her confidently, with good energy, vibe, you'll get blow out. Attraction isnt there.

The only way is if she straight up says so, but even this is bad evidence since you don’t know her honesty

She doesn't need to say anything. You only need to read her facial expression+body language (honest signals) upon approaching her to see how she views you as attractive (above her looks threshold) or not.

 

[Chrance]

First off, good morning, bro Didnt get any sleep last night. Definitely gonna randomly pass out at work today....lol. Aight let me do this real quick.

Rise’n shine

Yes. "Being" charming. You either are or you aren't. Whether or not that is the case, will be taken into consideration after she's accessed your overall look (face, height, physique, style) (which happens instantaneously in the subconscious mind (having a good fashion sense, good physique, nice haircut are fundamentals (which means they are within your control for improvement) that get assessed along side your genetics)..

Saying “either are or you aren’t”. You can appear charming one moment, not charming the next. It is a fluctuating thing, not either/or

Her assessment of your charm coming after looks is pure conjecture <== you have no evidence for this. You are simply assuming it because it fits into a nice structured PU theory. There is no mechanism in the brain that sets moment A as “assess looks time” followed by moment B as “assess personality time”. This does not exist and using “the subconscious” as justification is another way of saying “I don’t know lol but there’s some reason I’m sure.” She s also assessing your behavior in her subconscious. Why leave that out lol

There is such thing as unattractive behavior. Opening by studdering over your words, not making eye contact...will slowly kill her attraction for you despite her being initially attracted to you when you were standing with your friends. Behavior doesn't match looks. If she thinks your ugly, and you approach her confidently, with good energy, vibe, you'll get blow out. Attraction isnt there.

There is also attractive behavior that makes you look more attractive this “matching” thing is also not a real thing. There is no such thing as behavior “matching” with looks - the two are indistinguishable when you meet someone, so measuring the two together is physically impossible

There’s no way of knowing that attraction was already there or not before you lost it. Maybe part of your “looks” was you appearing relaxed and cool (ie behavior bonus) but when you approached your behavior became timid and lost

When she sees you, your pure looks are not separable from your vibe, so saying pure looks was the cause of her 0 initial attraction is nonsense. Pure theory lol. Maybe you just looked tense? There are many explanations

.
She doesn't need to say anything. You only need to read her facial expression+body language (honest signals) upon approaching her to see how she views you as attractive (above her looks threshold) or not.

Reading her expressions does not provide evidence that she doesn’t like you for your pure looks, it simply means she does not like you, feels uncomfortable, etc. The actual cause being your pure looks is not provable. Could have just as well been your vibe. You are assuming it was looks while there’s a million other reasons not being considered.

 

[Velasco]

What are low status jobs? I know retail and fast food are some, but I’m thinking you mean a little better if the person has a useless degree

No ya those were the kind of jobs I was thinking of lol. Just that the person got a degree, and ended up not really doing anything with it. Maybe they struggled to find a job after college, then said ahhh mannn fuck this shit

Does having a low status job mess you up with women

What I said to you in that previous thread still applies

If you 1). have your own place. And 2). have enough disposible income to go on dates. You good.

Just that it's awfully difficult to get these needs met when your relying a low status position's salary to meet said needs.

 

[Velasco]

Her assessment of your charm coming after looks is pure conjecture <== you have no evidence for this. You are simply assuming it because it fits into a nice structured PU theory

Hmm. More like experience. Are you unable to assess a girl's interest level in you after opening her? and began running your game on her? ("opportunity to charm her") (hint: look at her body language. Does she immediately move away from or move towards you. Face. Does she smile or have a curious expression on her face....or does she make that face you make when you smell/taste some nasty shit?) If not then you gotta work on that.

There is no mechanism in the brain that sets moment A as “assess looks time” followed by moment B as “assess personality time”. This does not exist and using “the subconscious” as justification is another way of saying “

I dont need to know how it works or why that subconscious thingy works that way and I refuse to look it up. I just know that's how it is goes intuitively.

There is no such thing as behavior “matching” with looks

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck...

The actual cause being your pure looks is not provable. Could have just as well been your vibe.

Congruent. Looks must match attractive behavior (non-verbals + verbals). Otherwise that initial attraction she had for you, the moment she laid her eyes upon you, will disappear.

Good Looks (from her perspective) + good vibe = attracted.
Bad looks (from her perspective) + good vibe = not attracted.

 

[Chrance]

Hmm. More like experience.

What your constructing is an interpretation of your experience. Simply saying “experience” doesn’t demonstrate how personality comes after looks. You didn’t show this, you just said “experience”. But the fact that people can like each other more after they meet contradicts this. Your experience isn’t wrong but your interpretation definitely is otherwise it wouldn’t contradict with other aspects of reality

You cannot observe someone’s personality without observing their looks and vice versa so splitting looks and vibe into a convenient equation does not work. If you see a duck looking object, but it’s behavior is not like a duck, then it is not a duck.

Whether you get blownout due to your pure looks (something impossible to observe btw) or behavior is unknowable. Could be one or the other. Many explanations not just “pure looks”

I dont need to know how it works or why that subconscious thingy works that way and I refuse to look it up. I just know that's how it is goes intuitively.

Well, if you don’t know than don’t selectively leave out behavior in the subconscious judgment process. We can add all sorts of shit into the “subconscious”. God is real ‘cause my subconscious says so lmao.

In regards to intuition, well, intuition = experience. So the same critique applies. What you’ve constructed is an interpretation of your intuition.

Another thing: using a female 2 as a measure for demonstrating the effects of personality is not accurate. In the example I gave of a funny person it was meant to be a man which I should have emphasized. You are judging a mans attractiveness from the perspective of a man, not a woman’s attractiveness - false equivalance to switch the two. And men can tell who between each other is attractive to women and it is clearly not bound to pure looks.

I want to emphasize that looks is definitely a factor; but to what degree it is a factor is very difficult to know per woman due to there being many causes for a rejection (her mood, character, your vibe, etc)

Note: when I use “vibe” this does not separate looks. You can’t see someone’s vibe without their looks. I only use it to emphasize subtle mannerisms

 

[Chrance]

Everything I’m saying is a restating of the obvious:
1.) you increase or decrease your attractiveness through your behavior
2.) pure looks being the cause of rejection is one of many explanations
3.) someone can go from not thinking you’re attractive to thinking your attractive because of your behavior
4.) a persons pure looks and behavior cannot be experienced separably
5.) thinking your physique caused rejection makes you a mind reader lol

 

[Velasco]

lol

Simply saying “experience” doesn’t demonstrate how personality comes after looks

I showed you how girls quickly (it's not a conscious decision) assess whether or not you are attractive, and the unconcious honest signals they give off, so that you know if she's interested or not. Before you've had a opportunity to spit your game at her (personality).

If you see a duck looking object, but it’s behavior is not like a duck, then it is not a duck

Sees a good looking guy = attracted
Behavior is not that of an attractive guy = loses attraction.

someone can go from not thinking you’re attractive to thinking your attractive because of your behavior

Not if she thinks ur ugly

a persons pure looks and behavior cannot be experienced separably

If she's facing the bar with her drink on the table, and you then stand next to her, and take her drink, from her. And she goes "umm excuse me!!" As she tries to take her drink back (at this point, has no clue yet what you look like. She just wants her drink back). That's her experiencing just my behavior. When she then turns to face me and then her pissed off demeanor drops and goes, "omg why are you so pretty" and then laughes about me tryna take her drink, that's her experiencing my looks....True story btw lol

 

[Chrance]

lol

I showed you how girls quickly (it's not a conscious decision) assess whether or not you are attractive, and the unconcious honest signals they give off, so that you know if she's interested or not. Before you've had a opportunity to spit your game at her (personality).


Sees a good looking guy = attracted
Behavior is not that of an attractive guy = loses attraction.


Not if she thinks ur ugly

If she's facing the bar with her drink on the table, and you then stand next to her, and take her drink, from her. And she goes "hey!!" As she tries to take her drink back (at this point, has no clue yet what you look like. She just wants her drink back). That's her experiencing just my behavior. When she then turns to face me and then her pissed off demeanor drops and goes, "omg why are you so pretty" and then laughes about me tryna take her drink, that's her experiencing my looks....True story btw

Your facial expressions were a factor. You opening the way you did was a factor. Your many other mannerisms were factors. And your looks were a factor. Looks being the first or primary factor is not seen here. It’s just one of many

“Sees a good looking guy = attracted
Behavior is not that of an attractive guy = loses attraction.”

Hold up. How would you know she’s attracted? He hasn’t approached yet and no AI so what makes you assume attraction? There is no proof till an AI or after approach.

Also, seeing a good looking guy does not exclude his behavior. Him just chilling relaxing is part of “seeing” him. So making his looks the sole factor is off

“I showed you how girls quickly (it's not a conscious thing) assess whether or not you are attractive,...”

^^^though i agree, this isn’t merely what you were saying. This is not the same as looks preceding personality or looks being a huge factor (it’s a case by case thing imo). Quick assessment is not the same as looks preceding personality. Subtle facial expressions are a part of personality btw and isn’t necessarily spitting game since facial expressions are not words and also because they are instinctual. “Game” begins when you see each other or are in each other’s presence, not just when you talk, because your vibe is a part of “game” and cannot be seen separately from your looks.

 

[Teevster]

You can only lose attraction via your words/actions.

You can not create attraction, where there is no attraction. (In this example, Girl A would be attracted to both man A and B. Girl A lost attraction for Man B because he isn't cool)

Not, but you can create compliance.

And compliance is oftentimes... all you need.

 

[ulrich]

You can get more girls to fuck by being a bum than by being financially well settled.

Of course, we are not talking about the same girls.
And of course, those girls are not going to stay for long term relationships.

When the only thing you bring to the table is sex, the only thing you get is sex.
Many guys run that kind of game.

I am not saying you should do it. But don’t think money is required to get sex. It isn’t.

 

[Tr1cky]

Hey velasco have you ever tried purposely handicapping your looks before going out to game? Bad style, messed up hair, etc etc.

 

[Chrance]

Another example of attraction increasing: My last lay I played guitar and sang a song to the woman, clearly got her attention more than before (there was a song she liked that I could play). Wasn’t necessary for the lay but increased feelings and emotions towards me nonetheless

There’s even a study that guys walking around with guitars appear more attractive. Mystery DHVs are also examples of increasing attractiveness (value in his words)

Repeating the obvious: behavior can increase attractiveness

 

[Teevster]

Hey velasco have you ever tried purposely handicapping your looks before going out to game? Bad style, messed up hair, etc etc.

I have done that at multiple occasions. I pulled 2 swedes with Pablo weeks ago with red eyes (conjunctivitis). It looked bad... like REALLY bad.

I have also picked up women wearing a patch on one of my eyes - looking like a pirate. Pulled.

Being fat - I have also been FAT in the period of 2012-2015 ish. I pulled almost as much as I do now (I am fit, and my long hair makes me look kinda hot).

Best one liner I heard from a girl "I usually don't do chubsters... but..."

Priceless.