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Integration: Taking Girlchase to the next level and content we need to see
- Thread starter Indian Race Troll (IRT)
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Hey man...
I struggled with this a lot too. When I got laid a lot, my whole life was in alignment with pickup. But I want to share some thoughts:
1) Naturals need "state" too. Plus, they have their own setups, gambits and stuff. The best natural I've known needs his circle, his clubs, his place to get laid. He has his moves, a certain system that he has trial and errored himself into. Most natural work very well with alcohol and shit and they can't pick someone up cold. Most have certain setups and a set process that works for them.
I don't know why so many pickup guys idolise naturals. From my experience of them, they are very limited in their ability and choice; also being bound by their success.
Literally some guy I know literally is turning away a dream job at his dream country because he isn't in his "scene" can't do his verbals . And of couse, being a natural, he doesn't really know what he is/was doing and can't really learn or course correct. Many naturals can't adapt the circumstances that made them successful. And let's call naturals for what they really are, people who learned this shit earlier through their environments, they had the opportunities to see, internalise, try, get references and fail. Not different than many or any PUA.
PUA's only see naturals at their power (+ comfort area) (or they won't think of them as naturals, lol) and just compare to themselves when they don't have that power.
2) I agree with you on the PUA / Life divide. But that's coming from (IMO) how most PUA's approach this. You need to put pickup into your life in a normal fucking way. That's why I'm learning structured/indirect game. Any time, any place kind of thing in a way you can actually rationalize this to yourself. This is key. I don't want the "pickup cape" lifestyle. But man, also. THAT is a choice. People can divide PU from their life and have a great life no problem. Fuck integration could be a massive headache. Depending on your goals.
3) There will be a period of the Limiting Mind / Rationalizing Mind. Where you'll rationalize your own reality/bs. Number one rule of pickup is to break out of social conditioning. Well. You have been conditioned. It takes some breaking to do. Your identity and you will clash.
4) Many people have done the lifestyle approach. MANY. Check out Adam Lyons, Brent Smith, Distant Light, Luke Krough, etc. Even fucking Todd only did daygame in an integrated way lol. (At least 3 approaches before/after gym. 5 times a week.) This is no big revelation. I agree that just CA is small thinking but social circles have their own pros and cons also. (Most of these people's social circles and lifestyle game is heavily based on CA also.
5) I agree with the guy who said, you are free to innovate pickup as you see fit. People will salute you. It seems like you're kinda ranting though, I get it. But I wonder what are you trying to achieve? People who thought similar things to you acted on that and developed incredible systems. But the main Q is, what are you trying to achieve out of life? Because let me tell you, nothing gives you the swagger, energy and the confidence of real cold approach. I've had great circles, harems, GFs, fuck buddy's, whatever the fuck systems and shit you can think of and situational greatness. It was not a bucket of the swagger/unreactiveness I've had in my CA days. I'm trying to figure this shit out too man. But if you just want women... I mean, why the fuck we're not getting hookers. (I have, it's fun. But not too much.) You got laid a lot from Tinder. Not the same as real CA right? You're not getting the same validation. Same swagger. Same freedom.
I mean what do you want? If it's just a free stream of pussy. Why not whore yourself out and learn Salsa. The people who're crushing hardest that I know are the people who've done Salsa for 5+ years and are a rockstar in those clubs. But realize sex became terrible/boring to Anthony Kiedis the moment RHCP became big and he got groupies that he didn't have to chase and prove himself anymore.
I mean, Jordan Belfort fucked another 10 every other night. He couldn't even get hard with hookers. Like what do you want? Why not doing Tinder? What's missing there? What are you after?
6) Pickup is not normal. At all. We're not here to be normal. We're here to win. To get the results and the life we want. You know what's normal? Having sex with 6 different people in your whole life. On average, and that's in the US, not in one of those crazy sexually repressed places. You know what's "normal" where I come from? Girls getting sold for cows when they're 13 to a 40 year old disgusting dude. Or a girl wearing a hijab, being all miserable and not talking to any guys in her life ever. FUCK NORMAL.
I know there is a balance. I'm not saying you to be a PU weirdo or a social robot. But I assume you aren't or you won't be asking all these Q's in the first place. But don't be in love with normal man. Nothing in life that's remarkable is normal, by definition. It's not the norm. Be calibrated. Ideally, be integrated to the society but by your own choice and rules, not by its. Co-dependance, independance, inter-dependance.
But do you know what's normal? A cool guy, finding a girl that he fancies, going up to her, introducing himself and picking her up. It's a skillset as old as time, fuck even Picasso found his fuck-buddies with "Daygame", literally cold approached them on the street. The format you put it based on the society is upto you but there will always be 2 sets of rules for guys. One for the normies and one for those whose in the secret society. There has always been.
Goddamn that was an incoherent rant but I hope some points hit certain things you care about. Cheers buddy!
I struggled with this a lot too. When I got laid a lot, my whole life was in alignment with pickup. But I want to share some thoughts:
1) Naturals need "state" too. Plus, they have their own setups, gambits and stuff. The best natural I've known needs his circle, his clubs, his place to get laid. He has his moves, a certain system that he has trial and errored himself into. Most natural work very well with alcohol and shit and they can't pick someone up cold. Most have certain setups and a set process that works for them.
I don't know why so many pickup guys idolise naturals. From my experience of them, they are very limited in their ability and choice; also being bound by their success.
Literally some guy I know literally is turning away a dream job at his dream country because he isn't in his "scene" can't do his verbals . And of couse, being a natural, he doesn't really know what he is/was doing and can't really learn or course correct. Many naturals can't adapt the circumstances that made them successful. And let's call naturals for what they really are, people who learned this shit earlier through their environments, they had the opportunities to see, internalise, try, get references and fail. Not different than many or any PUA.
PUA's only see naturals at their power (+ comfort area) (or they won't think of them as naturals, lol) and just compare to themselves when they don't have that power.
2) I agree with you on the PUA / Life divide. But that's coming from (IMO) how most PUA's approach this. You need to put pickup into your life in a normal fucking way. That's why I'm learning structured/indirect game. Any time, any place kind of thing in a way you can actually rationalize this to yourself. This is key. I don't want the "pickup cape" lifestyle. But man, also. THAT is a choice. People can divide PU from their life and have a great life no problem. Fuck integration could be a massive headache. Depending on your goals.
3) There will be a period of the Limiting Mind / Rationalizing Mind. Where you'll rationalize your own reality/bs. Number one rule of pickup is to break out of social conditioning. Well. You have been conditioned. It takes some breaking to do. Your identity and you will clash.
4) Many people have done the lifestyle approach. MANY. Check out Adam Lyons, Brent Smith, Distant Light, Luke Krough, etc. Even fucking Todd only did daygame in an integrated way lol. (At least 3 approaches before/after gym. 5 times a week.) This is no big revelation. I agree that just CA is small thinking but social circles have their own pros and cons also. (Most of these people's social circles and lifestyle game is heavily based on CA also.
5) I agree with the guy who said, you are free to innovate pickup as you see fit. People will salute you. It seems like you're kinda ranting though, I get it. But I wonder what are you trying to achieve? People who thought similar things to you acted on that and developed incredible systems. But the main Q is, what are you trying to achieve out of life? Because let me tell you, nothing gives you the swagger, energy and the confidence of real cold approach. I've had great circles, harems, GFs, fuck buddy's, whatever the fuck systems and shit you can think of and situational greatness. It was not a bucket of the swagger/unreactiveness I've had in my CA days. I'm trying to figure this shit out too man. But if you just want women... I mean, why the fuck we're not getting hookers. (I have, it's fun. But not too much.) You got laid a lot from Tinder. Not the same as real CA right? You're not getting the same validation. Same swagger. Same freedom.
I mean what do you want? If it's just a free stream of pussy. Why not whore yourself out and learn Salsa. The people who're crushing hardest that I know are the people who've done Salsa for 5+ years and are a rockstar in those clubs. But realize sex became terrible/boring to Anthony Kiedis the moment RHCP became big and he got groupies that he didn't have to chase and prove himself anymore.
I mean, Jordan Belfort fucked another 10 every other night. He couldn't even get hard with hookers. Like what do you want? Why not doing Tinder? What's missing there? What are you after?
6) Pickup is not normal. At all. We're not here to be normal. We're here to win. To get the results and the life we want. You know what's normal? Having sex with 6 different people in your whole life. On average, and that's in the US, not in one of those crazy sexually repressed places. You know what's "normal" where I come from? Girls getting sold for cows when they're 13 to a 40 year old disgusting dude. Or a girl wearing a hijab, being all miserable and not talking to any guys in her life ever. FUCK NORMAL.
I know there is a balance. I'm not saying you to be a PU weirdo or a social robot. But I assume you aren't or you won't be asking all these Q's in the first place. But don't be in love with normal man. Nothing in life that's remarkable is normal, by definition. It's not the norm. Be calibrated. Ideally, be integrated to the society but by your own choice and rules, not by its. Co-dependance, independance, inter-dependance.
But do you know what's normal? A cool guy, finding a girl that he fancies, going up to her, introducing himself and picking her up. It's a skillset as old as time, fuck even Picasso found his fuck-buddies with "Daygame", literally cold approached them on the street. The format you put it based on the society is upto you but there will always be 2 sets of rules for guys. One for the normies and one for those whose in the secret society. There has always been.
Goddamn that was an incoherent rant but I hope some points hit certain things you care about. Cheers buddy!
Last edited:
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@Carousel To be frankly honest with you, online dating on dating apps with top notch photos done by a lifestyle photographer have probably got me close to over a half of my lays in the past couple years or so, found it more effective than most other avenues. I also did have something going with photography but it never really panned out long-term due to my work hours, getting back into it now since I get to work from home and have more free time, lol the commute used to be awful.
@YS.
TBH with you, I only like cold approach and do it because it is an extra avenue to meet women. I enjoy matching with a hot girl just as much as I enjoy approaching one and having it go well. Even lately my energy to go out and approach, especially during the day, has gone to dust. Now this is before the Coronavirus, like I am not seeing how guys are making "daygame" work given how women tend to be tied to their circles.
Enough of that though, I digress. What I was talking about was that we have talked so much about going in-depth with seduction and interacting with women, handling shit-tests, and all of that lately that I thought articles on the site should shift course. I loved the stuff that Distant Light wrote on RSD and kind of wish we had our version of that on GC, hoping to be that guy myself.
Like I wish we had more discussion on the scene, the types of people that inhabit it, and being one of those people these days. I have had some luck with alumni groups, networking events, and those kinds of things but I'd love more and more talk about this.
In my view, we need to stop aiming to make guys "seducers" and just make them good with people so it all turns into a layup. From the experiences I have had, once that value is showcased, the rest happens somewhat naturally. Sure you might meet a girl through cold approach and such but it is more of a one off or here and there kind of thing. Even @Tony D said that in daygame you'd need to make an upward of 20 or so approaches for one to amount to anything.
Compare this to naturally meeting women as a result of the lifestyle and processes you have built up.
Maybe it is becoming a regular at a quality bar you go to with friends.
Maybe it is a stellar hobby.
Maybe a cool social group.
Maybe other lifestyle choices you can make to make it all more natural than having that on off switch.
I can tell you right now being in NYC, approaching women on the street is awkward and tends to get that random reaction. A lot of times, it barely works out and there are plenty of rejections abound.
@YS.
TBH with you, I only like cold approach and do it because it is an extra avenue to meet women. I enjoy matching with a hot girl just as much as I enjoy approaching one and having it go well. Even lately my energy to go out and approach, especially during the day, has gone to dust. Now this is before the Coronavirus, like I am not seeing how guys are making "daygame" work given how women tend to be tied to their circles.
Enough of that though, I digress. What I was talking about was that we have talked so much about going in-depth with seduction and interacting with women, handling shit-tests, and all of that lately that I thought articles on the site should shift course. I loved the stuff that Distant Light wrote on RSD and kind of wish we had our version of that on GC, hoping to be that guy myself.
Like I wish we had more discussion on the scene, the types of people that inhabit it, and being one of those people these days. I have had some luck with alumni groups, networking events, and those kinds of things but I'd love more and more talk about this.
In my view, we need to stop aiming to make guys "seducers" and just make them good with people so it all turns into a layup. From the experiences I have had, once that value is showcased, the rest happens somewhat naturally. Sure you might meet a girl through cold approach and such but it is more of a one off or here and there kind of thing. Even @Tony D said that in daygame you'd need to make an upward of 20 or so approaches for one to amount to anything.
Compare this to naturally meeting women as a result of the lifestyle and processes you have built up.
Maybe it is becoming a regular at a quality bar you go to with friends.
Maybe it is a stellar hobby.
Maybe a cool social group.
Maybe other lifestyle choices you can make to make it all more natural than having that on off switch.
I can tell you right now being in NYC, approaching women on the street is awkward and tends to get that random reaction. A lot of times, it barely works out and there are plenty of rejections abound.
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I want to help. I run my own business. Just a one man show for now. But i am kinda free from being an employee
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I also wanted to clarify that this is an idea to take GC to that next level from where it is at right now which is a pretty damn high level in and of itself. At times though, I almost feel like we pound the same topic too much. Perhaps I am clueless because to me, getting laid has been straightforward and happened naturally, the vibe was there and I acted on it. Here are topics I think we can talk more about in future articles from experts on here, I'd be happy to contribute my input too:
- Adjusting your game to modern times as a normal guy
- Incorporating game and seduction into your day to day routines instead of "sarging"
- More in-depth conversations on hobbies and lifestyle choices (eg: Chase told men to travel the world and work at nightclubs, maybe articles about nightlife work or other hobbies to meet women naturally)
- Tying game into your overall life purpose and goals
- Recovering from past traumas for those who used to be incels and lived an unconventional youth
My lifestyle consists of this:
- University classes -> We are around 60 people in our classes. However, I tend to work the room in our lectures which make me a lot of new contacts. I seed parties, qualify them and invite them.
- Introduction week tutor -> I meet around 100 new people this way every year. I basically have the responsibility of introducing 60 new people to uni together with 2 other people. We get invited to a lot after this.
- Student council party committee – business relations manager -> I know almost every single club promoter in town. I almost never spend money anymore when going out, I get almost everything for free. I get invited to tons of parties and meet a lot of new people this way. I’m very well known among staff. I often party with staff when the bars close.
- Gym -> Not somewhere I meet as many as in the other categories but I have made some good friends here.
- Startup -> I haven’t started my own start up yet but I go to a lot of start up events where I network quite a lot, and meet interesting people.
- Job -> Sales job. Around 50 young people and a great atmosphere. We have a lot of social events throughout the week, and we have quite a lot of parties.
- My roommate is a model, micro influencer, former miss girl. She have opened a door for me regarding influencers that I have to explore more. I know quite a lot of her influencer friends, which are very hot but it's something I have to explore more.
- Then I have people I've known before uni that I, of course, use a lot of time with as well but they are not a huge part of increasing my SC.
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So been thinking out a list of good articles which could make sense for GC in 2020, if @Chase sees it then maybe he can offer up his thoughts. Some have been listed out but I am adding more.
- Adjusting your game to modern times as a normal guy
- Incorporating game and seduction into your day to day routines instead of "sarging"
- More in-depth conversations on hobbies and lifestyle choices (eg: Chase told men to travel the world and work at nightclubs, maybe articles about nightlife work or other hobbies to meet women naturally)
- Tying game into your overall life purpose and goals
- Recovering from past traumas for those who used to be incels and lived an unconventional youth
Newer entries.
- Growing social media network (although I know Chase is opposed to social media but for those of us who are not)
- Types of events guys should be checking out (Burning Man, Boat Parties, etc.)
- Building social value through meeting women (actually building social status by treating women you meet up with well instead of accumulating notches on a bed post)
I've read some GirlsChase articles on integrating PUA into your life. Might help out:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-pick-women-your-day-day-life
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-naturals-meet-girls-and-get-laid
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-pick-women-your-day-day-life
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-naturals-meet-girls-and-get-laid
You are talking about a specific perception of life but we are completely different people with different goals and dreams. For me, the game principles are more or less me now. For you, it seems like it's something you have to turn on/off? Stop doing that. Reverse engineer your life. What do you want your life to consist of? You are talking about meeting new girls naturally, but you can more or less do that everywhere. If you see a cute girl on the street, supermarket, football stadium, library, book club, rock concert, opera concert, swinger club, scientology meeting, anti sex before marriage union, you should just talk to her. And you know that. Which job do you want? Which hobbies do you have?
"Types of events guys should check out" - again it's individual. If you personally don't like events like burning man and boat parties, why should you do that?
Figure out what you want in your life, the activities you like to do and reverse engineer. You can meet new people in every single activity EVERYWHERE.
Everything comes down to:
- Always making it win/win for you and the people you are talking to
- Living in the moment
- Always being social, inviting and non-judgemental
- Being the leader that makes shit happen
(basically game elements)
If you have those principles in place it's really easy to create an awesome social circle no matter what you want in life.
"Types of events guys should check out" - again it's individual. If you personally don't like events like burning man and boat parties, why should you do that?
Figure out what you want in your life, the activities you like to do and reverse engineer. You can meet new people in every single activity EVERYWHERE.
Everything comes down to:
- Always making it win/win for you and the people you are talking to
- Living in the moment
- Always being social, inviting and non-judgemental
- Being the leader that makes shit happen
(basically game elements)
If you have those principles in place it's really easy to create an awesome social circle no matter what you want in life.
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What do you want?
What are you looking for?
What is your purpose?
Seems like you want someone to tell you what’s next after becoming a “seduction master”.
Perhaps some senior members can tell you the next step or maybe you can buy whatever the next course/coaching/mastermind but once you overcome that challenge,you’ll be back to square one.
Perhaps the answer lies not in pickup... you want to attract women so they help you with something else besides sex... what is that?
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I think we do have to account for location and culture when having this discussion too. I am not taking too much advice from a Scandinavian who has never done game in America or in American culture, even though some of that advice is pretty legitimate. No offense to anyone here but advice from foreigners who are not a part of your culture does have a hard ceiling.
As for what I want out of the game long-term, I've been thinking about it, RSD even touched on it a bit.
I want to get to a point where I am automatically getting girls and meeting them through social groups or it is just easy to meet higher quality women. Sure online dating is one part of it but I mean like being in a situation where I can:
RSD talked about it, especially RSD Luke, and I would like for GC to touch on it as well.
As for what I want out of the game long-term, I've been thinking about it, RSD even touched on it a bit.
I want to get to a point where I am automatically getting girls and meeting them through social groups or it is just easy to meet higher quality women. Sure online dating is one part of it but I mean like being in a situation where I can:
- Meet hot girls through friends and social groups
- Have friends and social groups introduce me to hot girls
- Have a lifestyle where I have leverage over hot girls and have choices of which ones I want to fuck
- Have a lifestyle where I do cold approach because it is fun and I want to push myself but the women and sex are accounted for
RSD talked about it, especially RSD Luke, and I would like for GC to touch on it as well.
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To your point about cultural differences: Game is 95% universal over the Western world. The Scandinavian Elders here are discussing on daily basis with the Americans/Canadian Elders here, and while there are some political and legal differences, I don't think we have any significant point of disagreement on the tech itself. Also we regard the works of Gunwitch, Ross Jeffries, Swinggcat, Mystery, Tyler etc as the core works of PU. None of them are European, just saying.
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The most lasting and sustainable way of getting pussy is through game, not building up a social circle or a sick lifestyle. I focus on my "life" but for other reasons than pick up and pussy.
Say you plan on moving? you lose everything, but your game stays.
Say your favorite club close, where all your friends used to go to, where you knew the picker, bouncer, bartender... well then you have nothing. But if you have game, it stays and you can actually just go to another venue.
Say you build up a life-style that gives you pussy, then you are always at risk of getting a bad reputation, either, from your lifestyle itself, or from other factors. Nevertheless, you are more prone to get shit in your face, since more people know you. The bigger your circle, the more "fame" the more risks. And once hit shit the fans, you fall deep.
With game you risk none of this.
Best,
Teevster
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@Oh Pry-
Tons of really good responses on here from a lot of very smart people.
I just want to talk about one specific thing you keep repeating though, that stood out to me: there is this perpetual talk about lifestyle design as being a kind of "next level."
So, first off -- lifestyle design is cool, it's worthwhile, and it can be a lot of fun. I have a product on it (a combined lifestyle/charisma product; first half of the content is on charisma building, second half is lifestyle design) we're likely to launch before the end of April. Total guide to lifestyle building, for a variety of different lifestyles.
However, there is a very important consideration here in terms of what most men's goals are with lifestyle building.
Your goal -- your specific, stated goal, and one I have no doubt about being your actual goal -- is to be the popular guy and make up for a wasted youth. Okay, it's understandable. I sort of had that goal to one extent at one point. This is not a long-term goal for maintaining a lifestyle though, because as soon as you hit that point where you look around and go, "Whoa, I did it. I am the coolest guy in a group of really cool people. I am at the top," the goal evaporates. Then you need a new goal for lifestyle maintenance.
And the catch is that lifestyle maintenance, for the kind of lifestyle you are talking about where you are part of a group of really exceptional people doing really exceptional things, is lots of work. It is lots of it. No matter how effortless you try to make a lifestyle like this, you need to plan events. You need to contact people. You need to coordinate with people. You need to work around people's schedules. You need to massage people's egos. You need to make sure the right people are coming. You need to constantly get new people coming, to make up for people who drift out of the group over time, and those people must be as good as the people who are leaving, and equally as interested in the type and frequency of events you hold (and such people are never that easy to find). You need to vet those new people, once you find them, and discourage them or disinvite them from events if they don't make the cut, or find a way to pull them in if they do. You need to deal with people causing problems within the group and identify when someone shifts from being an asset to the group to a liability to the group and fix that or get him out before he causes too much damage.
If you're not the guy who is the planner and coordinator and ego massager, then you are one of his buddies, or one of the followers, or (if you're really not contributing much) a hanger-on. But you will never be the top dog alpha of the group if you are not the one at the center who makes everything happen.
If you want to avoid the work of coordinating, scheduling, ego-massaging, and whatnot, that rules you out as the #1 or #2 or #3 guy in a group, but you could still be a very cool guy people like to have around and make it into a #5-10 role in the group. However you are still going to have a lot of work to do. Because you need to be massaging the egos of the #1-3 guys, and keeping up your appearance to make sure these guys always think well of you and think you bring a lot of value, and helping to bring new people into the group that others in the group will approve of, so you keep getting the invites to their events. If you slack up too much for too long, you will stop getting invites, or the group itself may die if the top dogs aren't capable of group maintenance over the long-term or they get into serious relationships.
So there is always work: either you are a top guy, and your work is actually keeping the group together and finding cool things to do and getting everybody out, or you are a middle guy and your work is keeping yourself cool enough and beloved enough that the guys who are actually at the top and planning and coordinating and scheduling keep including you in what they're doing.
Anything in life that requires a large time and energy investment (like really cool guy lifestyle maintenance does) also requires a large motivation to continue putting in all that time and effort and emotion.
One driver for that can be "This is something I just need to do", like it is for you, and like for me for a few years it was as well.
However, once you get there, and you've slaked that feeling of "I have to do this", that is no longer going to be enough to justify all that work.
And you are going to need another motivation.
If you look at the vast, vast majority of people involved in all kinds of social groups, you will notice about 85% of them are single.
There are the real socialites, who keep going out all the time even while in a relationship. You get the guy and girl from the group who pair up and delight in going to events as the "It couple" of the group, the couple everyone there is so jealous of. Usually one or both of them is driven by a strong need for admiration/popularity. It's possible you might shift over to this after you've slaked that initial need of "I have to do this because I've never done it and I missed out before."
What about everybody else?
Most of them are going to these groups to get laid and find a relationship.
As soon as they start dating -- whether it is someone from the group, or someone they met in some other way -- you start to see them less and less. The longer the relationship goes on, and the stabler it becomes, the scarcer they get.
If the relationship goes really well, eventually they stop coming out altogether.
If the relationship goes on the rocks, they might make an appearance again, then vanish once more when it's doing better.
Or if they breakup, suddenly they're back out again just like old times for a while (until they meet someone new).
Thus, for the really mega ultra cool lifestyle groups, filled with dazzling, popular people, you are looking at really two different motivations for people being in that group:
There are also groups that are entirely based around camaraderie.
But these are unisex groups. All-male groups of cool guys who meet and chat about girls and business and whatnot. And all-girl groups who chat about the stuff girls chat about. They are not usually hard party groups, unless everyone in the group is single and they want to go out and get laid.
Also, the "super ultra mega cool popular person group" is different from a chill friend group that just hangs out and does weekend barbecues and goes to the club once a month or something. There you can have a small group of friends (potentially mixed sex) who keeps hanging out even once everyone is paired up because they just like one another's company.
You are talking about the big party popular people groups, and for THAT, the dynamic is as I laid out.
And the goal for these people is "get laid or get a relationship."
And this is the prime driver why they are at these events.
You have a handful of people who really just want to be admired, even when in a relationship, but they are a tiny minority and there are not enough of them to maintain these groups on their own, and they are also not what we should be looking at when deciding how high level an activity or not.
Most people there are there to get laid and date, and that is the chief reason they are there (though they will never say this. Their behavior upon getting into a serious relationship tells you what they will not admit, however).
And they must spend tons of time and energy going to these events, as well as the other things they do in their lives to be social, to accomplish this.
Many of them still end up dating someone not from the group, but someone they met at work, or at some other event they went to, too.
And even the ones who date someone from the group, even if it is a super cool group, who are the dating?
Dan Blizerian is dating porn actresses, many of whom have double lives as prostitutes on various escort sites. He is almost certainly recruiting these women for the lifestyle he leads and paying them. He is also dating Instagram models who, also, tend to double as prostitutes. Again, he is probably offering them either money or 'exposure' to attend his soirees.
Many of the women at cool guy popular events also tend to be status seekers -- maybe not outright porn actresses / Instagram models / part-time prostitutes, though some of them are, but a lot of them are there for high status men. Even if you like that type of girl, these are not ideal girlfriend material girls, and meeting them at these kinds of events unless you are the alpha male event planner / coordinator / makes-it-all-happen guy of the group is going to tend to not work out favorably -- you will be settling for a lower level girl if you meet her under party conditions than you could if you met her elsewhere.
If you are a guy who does not do great with women elsewhere, building a high end party person lifestyle will give you a boost in results in the thing most people engage in that lifestyle for (to get laid and get a relationship).
So, in that way, I suppose it could be considered "next level" to an extent.
However, there is a level beyond this.
That even higher level is the ability to meet a woman wherever you want to meet her, of a significantly higher caliber, and make her yours with even less work.
Whereas with the party guy lifestyle, you are investing dozens or hundreds of hours a month, mostly indirectly (i.e., talking with males in the group, talking with females you do not want to or cannot lay right now, status jockeying, and so on), to lay a few girls lower than what you could get... with cold approach developed to a similar level that many guys develop the party guy lifestyle you can invest the same amount of time and get more and higher quality lays and girlfriends.
Popular cool party guys, as you have noted, again and again, almost invariably drop out of the scene once they find a sufficient girlfriend.
It is not that the girlfriend "pulls them away." As much fun as they had with their buddies, the girl was the point. Once they found her, they ditched the lifestyle for her. If finding her was not the point, they'd be telling her "Sorry babe, gotta go hang out with my pals, maybe you can tag along if you want", but they are not doing that. Because the woman is more important than partying with their buddies, because the point of the partying, whether they knew it or not, was to find a girl they liked well enough and enter a relationship.
When you are looking at a thing where the ultimate point for almost everyone involved is to a.) get laid and then later on b.) have a relationship, the question has to be "What is the most efficient, effective way to do this, that brings me the highest quality results, for the least amount of work?"
And well developed cold approach does this much, much better than party guy social circle lifestyle maintenance does.
It is not even close.
I know for you, right now, goal #1 is to become the popular guy at the center of a cool circle of beautiful and popular people.
I understand that is the goal.
But that is not "next level" from what the focus is here.
It is a "side level" that will get you intermediate to advanced results, but below what you will achieve with mastery.
It is a fun thing to do, it is rewarding in many ways, and I recommend every guy do it if he can and he has the interest to when he's young enough to still enjoy it.
However, there is a reason you do not see, say, most single guys in their 40s and 50s attending these groups, and it is not because they are not "cool enough." I have known a lot of extremely cool men, who were fit, fashionable, confident, and attractive in all kinds of ways, across a huge variety of ages (my line of work is particularly well suited to meeting such cats), and any one of these guys would fit in perfectly with a cool popular party guy group if he wanted to partake.
But past a certain point, guys do not have the time or interest for this. If they are single, they just want to be able to meet women they like, without having to dump hours and hours and hours going to events and socializing and navigating social hierarchies and figuring out which girl within the hierarchy is available to them and how to bed her in a discreet way and how to deal with it after if they don't want to date her so she doesn't cause problems for them in the group.
By the time I was organizing very cool parties with beautiful and high end people coming to them, I had also reached a point with my cold approach where I could fairly reliably meet women just going about my day. And I discovered that when you got the makeup and the flashy dresses and the social status the group conferred off the girls you meet from the group, you will actually very often find far better girls just doing a little day game or going to a chill lounge where nobody knows you. All the people at these cool parties are also investing tons and tons of time and energy into maintaining that lifestyle, which means they are taking away from other things they could be doing with their lives to do that. Which means they have made a judgment call at some point that this was something they needed to do to accomplish their goals. Take from that what you will.
For me, once I'd been there, and seen it and done it, after that the appeal just washed away.
And I moved to the next level from that: just being able to approach girls whenever and set up a date and bed a girl and keep her as a girlfriend if I wanted, without having to coordinate with a whole bunch of people and organize things and message everybody and play the diplomacy game where I have to manage my reputation and all these other people's reputations and so on and so forth.
Seeing maintaining a super active cool party guy lifestyle bandied about as "next level" over targeted anytime, anywhere cold approach to me is like seeing a thing middle level advanced guys do get called "next level" over what the guys who are masters do. It is really weird.
There are way more guys doing the super cool party guy lifestyle than there are guys doing high skill targeted cold approach.
The cool party guy lifestyle is easier to get into, and also more time intensive, and the romantic rewards are both inferior and harder to get in comparison to what you get with high skilled targeted cold approach.
And the vast, vast majority of people involved in super cool party lifestyles are doing it because they are mate-seeking.
I had a girl who was the alpha from one of my cool party lifestyle circles years ago (this one was her circle... typically when you are doing this, you are going to have multiple other cool circles you are part of, plus whatever circle you may run yourself) contact me last year after I had not heard from her in over half a decade because she wanted to start rebuilding that circle. She had dropped out once she got into a serious relationship, from what I gathered, and since she was the center of that circle it just sort of fell apart without her and everyone moved on. Years later the relationship came apart, and it was time for her to start rebuilding the circle -- because the circle was always about mating. When she was mateless, or the mate wasn't serious, she kept the circle going. Once she had a serious mate, no circle.
People are not doing this just to be admired or be a part of something, like you are. To some extent they are, but that goal is really in service to the "find a mate" goal (they want to be admired because they believe this will help them to find a suitable mate), and once they have a (serious) mate they largely stop caring about the status goal.
Doing this is not next level to cold approach.
It is fun to do, and interesting to do, and will teach you a lot, and also a nice experience to have so you don't wonder if you missed something.
But then once you have done it you realize high skilled targeted cold approach is way better, a lot less work, and produces superior results.
If you want "next level" stuff, read the site.
It is all there.
You can use this same stuff for all the cool people group stuff (and we have numerous articles talking specifically about that -- I also have the new product coming out that is on that).
You can also use it for even higher level stuff -- the real next level stuff.
The ability to get the thing everyone goes to these groups for, without having to put in anywhere near as much time, energy, and emotion to get it.
That is, girls. (or, in the case of the girls who go to them, it will be "guys." However, you've gotta feel bad for the girls, because they don't have the option of cold approach. They can only keep putting themselves out there and hope to find a guy who qualifies for what they're looking for. It is a little silly you are on a cold approach site and not realizing how next level the stuff you have access to is compared to the stuff you are trying to do)
Do this if you need to.
Don't kid yourself into thinking it's next level though.
All the people who continue doing it past the point where they've "achievement unlocked" the feeling of having made it, plus past the point of having found a sufficiently acceptable mate they can be serious with (i.e., people who are very cool and accepted within the group and have an excellent, serious mate yet still bother to keep the same level of attendance at events regardless), tend to all have significant underlying ego issues they have not addressed -- because, again, this requires a ton of work to maintain, most of which is behind the scenes and invisible to anyone not doing it, and you need to be extremely motivated to keep doing that, and most people, once they've "done it" and once they've achieved their mating objectives, are not going to have that kind of motivation.
Again -- not dumping on lifestyle, I think lifestyle is very important, it's an excellent thing to get handled, and can be a boon for seduction if you use it right, too. It may well be the better option for you if you especially like the whole partying and social hierarchy navigation thing and don't so much like being able to just chat up a girl wherever and wind up in her bed (maybe that is not as exciting to you or whatever... I've known a few people who really just loved the dynamics of social group navigation).
However, don't get it twisted, thinking this is some kind of next level over cold approach.
It is a level above average guy cold approach.
It is well below high skill high targeted cold approach.
Chase
Tons of really good responses on here from a lot of very smart people.
I just want to talk about one specific thing you keep repeating though, that stood out to me: there is this perpetual talk about lifestyle design as being a kind of "next level."
So, first off -- lifestyle design is cool, it's worthwhile, and it can be a lot of fun. I have a product on it (a combined lifestyle/charisma product; first half of the content is on charisma building, second half is lifestyle design) we're likely to launch before the end of April. Total guide to lifestyle building, for a variety of different lifestyles.
However, there is a very important consideration here in terms of what most men's goals are with lifestyle building.
Your goal -- your specific, stated goal, and one I have no doubt about being your actual goal -- is to be the popular guy and make up for a wasted youth. Okay, it's understandable. I sort of had that goal to one extent at one point. This is not a long-term goal for maintaining a lifestyle though, because as soon as you hit that point where you look around and go, "Whoa, I did it. I am the coolest guy in a group of really cool people. I am at the top," the goal evaporates. Then you need a new goal for lifestyle maintenance.
And the catch is that lifestyle maintenance, for the kind of lifestyle you are talking about where you are part of a group of really exceptional people doing really exceptional things, is lots of work. It is lots of it. No matter how effortless you try to make a lifestyle like this, you need to plan events. You need to contact people. You need to coordinate with people. You need to work around people's schedules. You need to massage people's egos. You need to make sure the right people are coming. You need to constantly get new people coming, to make up for people who drift out of the group over time, and those people must be as good as the people who are leaving, and equally as interested in the type and frequency of events you hold (and such people are never that easy to find). You need to vet those new people, once you find them, and discourage them or disinvite them from events if they don't make the cut, or find a way to pull them in if they do. You need to deal with people causing problems within the group and identify when someone shifts from being an asset to the group to a liability to the group and fix that or get him out before he causes too much damage.
If you're not the guy who is the planner and coordinator and ego massager, then you are one of his buddies, or one of the followers, or (if you're really not contributing much) a hanger-on. But you will never be the top dog alpha of the group if you are not the one at the center who makes everything happen.
If you want to avoid the work of coordinating, scheduling, ego-massaging, and whatnot, that rules you out as the #1 or #2 or #3 guy in a group, but you could still be a very cool guy people like to have around and make it into a #5-10 role in the group. However you are still going to have a lot of work to do. Because you need to be massaging the egos of the #1-3 guys, and keeping up your appearance to make sure these guys always think well of you and think you bring a lot of value, and helping to bring new people into the group that others in the group will approve of, so you keep getting the invites to their events. If you slack up too much for too long, you will stop getting invites, or the group itself may die if the top dogs aren't capable of group maintenance over the long-term or they get into serious relationships.
So there is always work: either you are a top guy, and your work is actually keeping the group together and finding cool things to do and getting everybody out, or you are a middle guy and your work is keeping yourself cool enough and beloved enough that the guys who are actually at the top and planning and coordinating and scheduling keep including you in what they're doing.
Anything in life that requires a large time and energy investment (like really cool guy lifestyle maintenance does) also requires a large motivation to continue putting in all that time and effort and emotion.
One driver for that can be "This is something I just need to do", like it is for you, and like for me for a few years it was as well.
However, once you get there, and you've slaked that feeling of "I have to do this", that is no longer going to be enough to justify all that work.
And you are going to need another motivation.
If you look at the vast, vast majority of people involved in all kinds of social groups, you will notice about 85% of them are single.
There are the real socialites, who keep going out all the time even while in a relationship. You get the guy and girl from the group who pair up and delight in going to events as the "It couple" of the group, the couple everyone there is so jealous of. Usually one or both of them is driven by a strong need for admiration/popularity. It's possible you might shift over to this after you've slaked that initial need of "I have to do this because I've never done it and I missed out before."
What about everybody else?
Most of them are going to these groups to get laid and find a relationship.
As soon as they start dating -- whether it is someone from the group, or someone they met in some other way -- you start to see them less and less. The longer the relationship goes on, and the stabler it becomes, the scarcer they get.
If the relationship goes really well, eventually they stop coming out altogether.
If the relationship goes on the rocks, they might make an appearance again, then vanish once more when it's doing better.
Or if they breakup, suddenly they're back out again just like old times for a while (until they meet someone new).
Thus, for the really mega ultra cool lifestyle groups, filled with dazzling, popular people, you are looking at really two different motivations for people being in that group:
- They want to get laid or get a relationship (95% of the people in the group, including the 85% who are single, plus 2/3 of the people there who are already dating someone, just not seriously enough or long enough that they've entirely stopped coming out)
- Or, a small minority, they want a group of people to admire their relationship (5% of people in the group -- about 1/3 of the folks in relationships who are still regularly coming out)
There are also groups that are entirely based around camaraderie.
But these are unisex groups. All-male groups of cool guys who meet and chat about girls and business and whatnot. And all-girl groups who chat about the stuff girls chat about. They are not usually hard party groups, unless everyone in the group is single and they want to go out and get laid.
Also, the "super ultra mega cool popular person group" is different from a chill friend group that just hangs out and does weekend barbecues and goes to the club once a month or something. There you can have a small group of friends (potentially mixed sex) who keeps hanging out even once everyone is paired up because they just like one another's company.
You are talking about the big party popular people groups, and for THAT, the dynamic is as I laid out.
And the goal for these people is "get laid or get a relationship."
And this is the prime driver why they are at these events.
You have a handful of people who really just want to be admired, even when in a relationship, but they are a tiny minority and there are not enough of them to maintain these groups on their own, and they are also not what we should be looking at when deciding how high level an activity or not.
Most people there are there to get laid and date, and that is the chief reason they are there (though they will never say this. Their behavior upon getting into a serious relationship tells you what they will not admit, however).
And they must spend tons of time and energy going to these events, as well as the other things they do in their lives to be social, to accomplish this.
Many of them still end up dating someone not from the group, but someone they met at work, or at some other event they went to, too.
And even the ones who date someone from the group, even if it is a super cool group, who are the dating?
Dan Blizerian is dating porn actresses, many of whom have double lives as prostitutes on various escort sites. He is almost certainly recruiting these women for the lifestyle he leads and paying them. He is also dating Instagram models who, also, tend to double as prostitutes. Again, he is probably offering them either money or 'exposure' to attend his soirees.
Many of the women at cool guy popular events also tend to be status seekers -- maybe not outright porn actresses / Instagram models / part-time prostitutes, though some of them are, but a lot of them are there for high status men. Even if you like that type of girl, these are not ideal girlfriend material girls, and meeting them at these kinds of events unless you are the alpha male event planner / coordinator / makes-it-all-happen guy of the group is going to tend to not work out favorably -- you will be settling for a lower level girl if you meet her under party conditions than you could if you met her elsewhere.
If you are a guy who does not do great with women elsewhere, building a high end party person lifestyle will give you a boost in results in the thing most people engage in that lifestyle for (to get laid and get a relationship).
So, in that way, I suppose it could be considered "next level" to an extent.
However, there is a level beyond this.
That even higher level is the ability to meet a woman wherever you want to meet her, of a significantly higher caliber, and make her yours with even less work.
Whereas with the party guy lifestyle, you are investing dozens or hundreds of hours a month, mostly indirectly (i.e., talking with males in the group, talking with females you do not want to or cannot lay right now, status jockeying, and so on), to lay a few girls lower than what you could get... with cold approach developed to a similar level that many guys develop the party guy lifestyle you can invest the same amount of time and get more and higher quality lays and girlfriends.
Popular cool party guys, as you have noted, again and again, almost invariably drop out of the scene once they find a sufficient girlfriend.
It is not that the girlfriend "pulls them away." As much fun as they had with their buddies, the girl was the point. Once they found her, they ditched the lifestyle for her. If finding her was not the point, they'd be telling her "Sorry babe, gotta go hang out with my pals, maybe you can tag along if you want", but they are not doing that. Because the woman is more important than partying with their buddies, because the point of the partying, whether they knew it or not, was to find a girl they liked well enough and enter a relationship.
When you are looking at a thing where the ultimate point for almost everyone involved is to a.) get laid and then later on b.) have a relationship, the question has to be "What is the most efficient, effective way to do this, that brings me the highest quality results, for the least amount of work?"
And well developed cold approach does this much, much better than party guy social circle lifestyle maintenance does.
It is not even close.
I know for you, right now, goal #1 is to become the popular guy at the center of a cool circle of beautiful and popular people.
I understand that is the goal.
But that is not "next level" from what the focus is here.
It is a "side level" that will get you intermediate to advanced results, but below what you will achieve with mastery.
It is a fun thing to do, it is rewarding in many ways, and I recommend every guy do it if he can and he has the interest to when he's young enough to still enjoy it.
However, there is a reason you do not see, say, most single guys in their 40s and 50s attending these groups, and it is not because they are not "cool enough." I have known a lot of extremely cool men, who were fit, fashionable, confident, and attractive in all kinds of ways, across a huge variety of ages (my line of work is particularly well suited to meeting such cats), and any one of these guys would fit in perfectly with a cool popular party guy group if he wanted to partake.
But past a certain point, guys do not have the time or interest for this. If they are single, they just want to be able to meet women they like, without having to dump hours and hours and hours going to events and socializing and navigating social hierarchies and figuring out which girl within the hierarchy is available to them and how to bed her in a discreet way and how to deal with it after if they don't want to date her so she doesn't cause problems for them in the group.
By the time I was organizing very cool parties with beautiful and high end people coming to them, I had also reached a point with my cold approach where I could fairly reliably meet women just going about my day. And I discovered that when you got the makeup and the flashy dresses and the social status the group conferred off the girls you meet from the group, you will actually very often find far better girls just doing a little day game or going to a chill lounge where nobody knows you. All the people at these cool parties are also investing tons and tons of time and energy into maintaining that lifestyle, which means they are taking away from other things they could be doing with their lives to do that. Which means they have made a judgment call at some point that this was something they needed to do to accomplish their goals. Take from that what you will.
For me, once I'd been there, and seen it and done it, after that the appeal just washed away.
And I moved to the next level from that: just being able to approach girls whenever and set up a date and bed a girl and keep her as a girlfriend if I wanted, without having to coordinate with a whole bunch of people and organize things and message everybody and play the diplomacy game where I have to manage my reputation and all these other people's reputations and so on and so forth.
Seeing maintaining a super active cool party guy lifestyle bandied about as "next level" over targeted anytime, anywhere cold approach to me is like seeing a thing middle level advanced guys do get called "next level" over what the guys who are masters do. It is really weird.
There are way more guys doing the super cool party guy lifestyle than there are guys doing high skill targeted cold approach.
The cool party guy lifestyle is easier to get into, and also more time intensive, and the romantic rewards are both inferior and harder to get in comparison to what you get with high skilled targeted cold approach.
And the vast, vast majority of people involved in super cool party lifestyles are doing it because they are mate-seeking.
I had a girl who was the alpha from one of my cool party lifestyle circles years ago (this one was her circle... typically when you are doing this, you are going to have multiple other cool circles you are part of, plus whatever circle you may run yourself) contact me last year after I had not heard from her in over half a decade because she wanted to start rebuilding that circle. She had dropped out once she got into a serious relationship, from what I gathered, and since she was the center of that circle it just sort of fell apart without her and everyone moved on. Years later the relationship came apart, and it was time for her to start rebuilding the circle -- because the circle was always about mating. When she was mateless, or the mate wasn't serious, she kept the circle going. Once she had a serious mate, no circle.
People are not doing this just to be admired or be a part of something, like you are. To some extent they are, but that goal is really in service to the "find a mate" goal (they want to be admired because they believe this will help them to find a suitable mate), and once they have a (serious) mate they largely stop caring about the status goal.
Doing this is not next level to cold approach.
It is fun to do, and interesting to do, and will teach you a lot, and also a nice experience to have so you don't wonder if you missed something.
But then once you have done it you realize high skilled targeted cold approach is way better, a lot less work, and produces superior results.
If you want "next level" stuff, read the site.
It is all there.
You can use this same stuff for all the cool people group stuff (and we have numerous articles talking specifically about that -- I also have the new product coming out that is on that).
You can also use it for even higher level stuff -- the real next level stuff.
The ability to get the thing everyone goes to these groups for, without having to put in anywhere near as much time, energy, and emotion to get it.
That is, girls. (or, in the case of the girls who go to them, it will be "guys." However, you've gotta feel bad for the girls, because they don't have the option of cold approach. They can only keep putting themselves out there and hope to find a guy who qualifies for what they're looking for. It is a little silly you are on a cold approach site and not realizing how next level the stuff you have access to is compared to the stuff you are trying to do)
Do this if you need to.
Don't kid yourself into thinking it's next level though.
All the people who continue doing it past the point where they've "achievement unlocked" the feeling of having made it, plus past the point of having found a sufficiently acceptable mate they can be serious with (i.e., people who are very cool and accepted within the group and have an excellent, serious mate yet still bother to keep the same level of attendance at events regardless), tend to all have significant underlying ego issues they have not addressed -- because, again, this requires a ton of work to maintain, most of which is behind the scenes and invisible to anyone not doing it, and you need to be extremely motivated to keep doing that, and most people, once they've "done it" and once they've achieved their mating objectives, are not going to have that kind of motivation.
Again -- not dumping on lifestyle, I think lifestyle is very important, it's an excellent thing to get handled, and can be a boon for seduction if you use it right, too. It may well be the better option for you if you especially like the whole partying and social hierarchy navigation thing and don't so much like being able to just chat up a girl wherever and wind up in her bed (maybe that is not as exciting to you or whatever... I've known a few people who really just loved the dynamics of social group navigation).
However, don't get it twisted, thinking this is some kind of next level over cold approach.
It is a level above average guy cold approach.
It is well below high skill high targeted cold approach.
Chase
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- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
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@Chase
I am glad you took the time aside to talk about this but overtime, my goals have kind of changed to where I feel like a guy can be that "cool guy" or popular guy in any given vicinity or setting just by walking in there with a handful of hot girls. Male opinion actually matters little here now that I think about it. The way I have found it to be in the times when I have found an appetizer of this lifestyle is that men will go out of their way to be friends with you or win your approval at times if they want to chat with a girl you brought into the club or bar.
Here in NYC for instance right, in order to get into some of the finest bars and nightclubs around? You have to bring hot girls with you due to the door policy, you're not getting in alone or with a group of guys, you need to bring hot girls with you.
My issue with "game", @Chase, is that I actually do feel like we are not really thinking on the next level a lot of times. Only RSD has really touched on what I am talking about here but the idea of:
1. Meet girl.
2. Take girl on date.
3. Fuck girl.
4. LTR and marry her.
All of this seems quite, well...simple to me. I can get laid with decent enough women off of a dating app without even doing a single approach and I've done it over a 100 times now.
Instead, I want more discussion on.
1. Getting women who are beautiful to actually come out to parties, bars, and nightclubs with you. Being able to show up to events with multiple good looking women even if you might not be fucking some of them.
2. Having birthday parties or special events where women are actually coming out to celebrate with you. Don't worry, the guys will follow lol.
3. Being able to introduce your close guy friends you care about to hot girls who you happen to know.
Now that I think about it, we need to talk more about social fulfillment instead of social validation.
Yeah, I might go to a rooftop in NYC once the coronavirus thing is done and find that the former popular frat bros, sorority girls, and that crew are all together. Even Dan Bilzerian is there with some of his women. I don't even fucking care anymore.
I am there with a couple of hot girls and maybe a male friend who happened to want to come out with me too.
In other words, I don't necessarily want to play the ego management game anymore as much as I want to talk more about how you can leverage game and what you have learned on this site onto more than just getting your dick wet. How you can learn the tools you have been taught to:
1. Get women you meet to come out to get their friends to come out to party with you.
2. Meet decent enough guy friends, I mean I'd prefer you or @Franco man but you guys probably won't enjoy NYC as much lol. Just have a handful of guy friends who aren't too against partying and going out.
3. Merge 1 and 2 for a social event.
Make it less about validation really and more about giving women great social experiences, getting great social experiences through game, and being the guy who introduces his friends to hot girls (or brings them to their parties), and just flow from there.
You are a socially fulfilled people person instead of some pump and dump psychopath.
Do you see what I am getting at here?
Happy to clarify.
I am glad you took the time aside to talk about this but overtime, my goals have kind of changed to where I feel like a guy can be that "cool guy" or popular guy in any given vicinity or setting just by walking in there with a handful of hot girls. Male opinion actually matters little here now that I think about it. The way I have found it to be in the times when I have found an appetizer of this lifestyle is that men will go out of their way to be friends with you or win your approval at times if they want to chat with a girl you brought into the club or bar.
Here in NYC for instance right, in order to get into some of the finest bars and nightclubs around? You have to bring hot girls with you due to the door policy, you're not getting in alone or with a group of guys, you need to bring hot girls with you.
My issue with "game", @Chase, is that I actually do feel like we are not really thinking on the next level a lot of times. Only RSD has really touched on what I am talking about here but the idea of:
1. Meet girl.
2. Take girl on date.
3. Fuck girl.
4. LTR and marry her.
All of this seems quite, well...simple to me. I can get laid with decent enough women off of a dating app without even doing a single approach and I've done it over a 100 times now.
Instead, I want more discussion on.
1. Getting women who are beautiful to actually come out to parties, bars, and nightclubs with you. Being able to show up to events with multiple good looking women even if you might not be fucking some of them.
2. Having birthday parties or special events where women are actually coming out to celebrate with you. Don't worry, the guys will follow lol.
3. Being able to introduce your close guy friends you care about to hot girls who you happen to know.
Now that I think about it, we need to talk more about social fulfillment instead of social validation.
Yeah, I might go to a rooftop in NYC once the coronavirus thing is done and find that the former popular frat bros, sorority girls, and that crew are all together. Even Dan Bilzerian is there with some of his women. I don't even fucking care anymore.
I am there with a couple of hot girls and maybe a male friend who happened to want to come out with me too.
In other words, I don't necessarily want to play the ego management game anymore as much as I want to talk more about how you can leverage game and what you have learned on this site onto more than just getting your dick wet. How you can learn the tools you have been taught to:
1. Get women you meet to come out to get their friends to come out to party with you.
2. Meet decent enough guy friends, I mean I'd prefer you or @Franco man but you guys probably won't enjoy NYC as much lol. Just have a handful of guy friends who aren't too against partying and going out.
3. Merge 1 and 2 for a social event.
Make it less about validation really and more about giving women great social experiences, getting great social experiences through game, and being the guy who introduces his friends to hot girls (or brings them to their parties), and just flow from there.
You are a socially fulfilled people person instead of some pump and dump psychopath.
Do you see what I am getting at here?
Happy to clarify.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 6,169
Oh Pry-
Getting laid with women off a dating app is as simple as it gets.
Also, the quality is not there.
How about laying a top caliber girl? Converting her to girlfriend?
How many cold approach threesomes have you pulled off, Alek-style?
LTR and marriage sounds very simple... how many of these under your belt? Presumably under 100.
This "I'm just going to dismiss game, because I am so over that, however I am totally into social stuff" thing is very odd (it almost always goes in the opposite direction -- also, IME, usually when a guy is "over sex" he is also over the whole party scene in general, because what really is the point? For most guys, there isn't one).
(I mean, most guys get tired of ONS after a while, but "I'm so over ONS but I want to surround myself with women still" is not something I have ever heard a man say to my recollection)
Anyway, it does not seem like you have an accurate view of things.
And this is very simple stuff:
Shag them and invite them and their friends out.
Shag them and invite them and their friends out.
Shag them and invite them and their friends out.
Once getting laid is easy for you, all the rest of this stuff is easy.
Maybe you have never thought of this before.
But seriously: I was doing this even as a newbie. I would take FWBs I was tired of shagging, and invite them to parties, introduce them to cool guys there, and meet new girls at the event.
Just do your dating app thing, shag some girls, invite them out, and tell them to bring their friends.
They had your penis in them. They think you are a cool guy. At least some of them are going to want to hang with you again, and will assume you do cool things. Tell them to bring 3 cute friends and that you have 3 cool guy friends coming along for them to talk to, also you are going to do something very fun and cool and there will be even more cool people there.
The only reason the other senior guys on the Boards don't do this is because none of us care about it.
But I have done it in the past, just to try it and see what happens. Other guys here have done stuff like this, I know. It is very easy to pull off. Once your cock has been in her, she is going to want to come do stuff with you, and she also sees you as a high value guy, and is going to jump at the chance to introduce her girlfriends to more high value guys.
Shag girls and invite them out. Tell them to bring friends.
Introduce the girls to cool guys.
You can also do cold approach and invite girls places, Adam Lyons-style (I think it was Adam Lyons? Man, my memory is getting fuzzy over the years). His whole thing was "day game during the day, invite girls out with you at night" and just roll places 10-20 deep, him and a whole posse of women (although I think it came out he was also a promoter and was using that to get women to roll with him? Anyway, if you want to do that, just become a promoter for a cool club).
You are fine to have unique and uncommon goals like "I want my social life to be about giving hot women to other men because that makes me feel socially fulfilled."
But crapping on other guys who still get enjoyment out of women and not so much out of serving other men as 'psychopaths' is out of line, amigo.
There are guys who have sex who are psychopaths. There are many other guys who have sex who are not psychopaths. The vast majority of sexually active men, in fact, are not psychopaths. And one-night stands are indeed a part of sexual activity, and the vast majority of men who enjoy are not, in fact, psychopaths.
Also, if I was you, I might ask myself why I feel like I need to be giving other men women in order to get access to high caliber men.
Because I will say -- I have a lot of very cool, accomplished, impressive, high caliber guys in my circle of friends, from a variety of walks of life, and I have only kicked a woman over to two or three of them. Usually I do not even go out gaming with them -- I just meet up with them for drinks and food, etc.
If it is not about popularity anymore, then the question I think needs to be "Why does Oh Pry need to give women to men to have high value friends?"
Then when you have the answer to that, the next question is "Is there anything else Oh Pry could do instead to be someone high value friends want to be around, other than being this perpetual woman font?"
Because I will tell you, as much fun as it might be for a guy to have you kick a few women over to him now and again, if that is the primary value you have on offer it is going to get old fast. If a guy is cool enough, he does not need you to kick women to him, and anyway most cool guys are only going to have occasional stretches of time where they are single-and-looking / single and really playing the field.
Chase
Getting laid with women off a dating app is as simple as it gets.
Also, the quality is not there.
How about laying a top caliber girl? Converting her to girlfriend?
How many cold approach threesomes have you pulled off, Alek-style?
LTR and marriage sounds very simple... how many of these under your belt? Presumably under 100.
This "I'm just going to dismiss game, because I am so over that, however I am totally into social stuff" thing is very odd (it almost always goes in the opposite direction -- also, IME, usually when a guy is "over sex" he is also over the whole party scene in general, because what really is the point? For most guys, there isn't one).
(I mean, most guys get tired of ONS after a while, but "I'm so over ONS but I want to surround myself with women still" is not something I have ever heard a man say to my recollection)
Anyway, it does not seem like you have an accurate view of things.
And this is very simple stuff:
Shag them and invite them and their friends out.
Shag them and invite them and their friends out.
Shag them and invite them and their friends out.
Once getting laid is easy for you, all the rest of this stuff is easy.
Maybe you have never thought of this before.
But seriously: I was doing this even as a newbie. I would take FWBs I was tired of shagging, and invite them to parties, introduce them to cool guys there, and meet new girls at the event.
Just do your dating app thing, shag some girls, invite them out, and tell them to bring their friends.
They had your penis in them. They think you are a cool guy. At least some of them are going to want to hang with you again, and will assume you do cool things. Tell them to bring 3 cute friends and that you have 3 cool guy friends coming along for them to talk to, also you are going to do something very fun and cool and there will be even more cool people there.
The only reason the other senior guys on the Boards don't do this is because none of us care about it.
But I have done it in the past, just to try it and see what happens. Other guys here have done stuff like this, I know. It is very easy to pull off. Once your cock has been in her, she is going to want to come do stuff with you, and she also sees you as a high value guy, and is going to jump at the chance to introduce her girlfriends to more high value guys.
Shag girls and invite them out. Tell them to bring friends.
Introduce the girls to cool guys.
You can also do cold approach and invite girls places, Adam Lyons-style (I think it was Adam Lyons? Man, my memory is getting fuzzy over the years). His whole thing was "day game during the day, invite girls out with you at night" and just roll places 10-20 deep, him and a whole posse of women (although I think it came out he was also a promoter and was using that to get women to roll with him? Anyway, if you want to do that, just become a promoter for a cool club).
You are fine to have unique and uncommon goals like "I want my social life to be about giving hot women to other men because that makes me feel socially fulfilled."
But crapping on other guys who still get enjoyment out of women and not so much out of serving other men as 'psychopaths' is out of line, amigo.
There are guys who have sex who are psychopaths. There are many other guys who have sex who are not psychopaths. The vast majority of sexually active men, in fact, are not psychopaths. And one-night stands are indeed a part of sexual activity, and the vast majority of men who enjoy are not, in fact, psychopaths.
Also, if I was you, I might ask myself why I feel like I need to be giving other men women in order to get access to high caliber men.
Because I will say -- I have a lot of very cool, accomplished, impressive, high caliber guys in my circle of friends, from a variety of walks of life, and I have only kicked a woman over to two or three of them. Usually I do not even go out gaming with them -- I just meet up with them for drinks and food, etc.
If it is not about popularity anymore, then the question I think needs to be "Why does Oh Pry need to give women to men to have high value friends?"
Then when you have the answer to that, the next question is "Is there anything else Oh Pry could do instead to be someone high value friends want to be around, other than being this perpetual woman font?"
Because I will tell you, as much fun as it might be for a guy to have you kick a few women over to him now and again, if that is the primary value you have on offer it is going to get old fast. If a guy is cool enough, he does not need you to kick women to him, and anyway most cool guys are only going to have occasional stretches of time where they are single-and-looking / single and really playing the field.
Chase
Thanks for the write-up, Chase. Reading it helped me figure out whether to cold approach or do social circle for girls.
I was about to go the social circle route for women. But figured out that socializing for friends and doing cold approach for women is the best approach for me currently.
I was about to go the social circle route for women. But figured out that socializing for friends and doing cold approach for women is the best approach for me currently.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 3,222
@Chase
I guess I am the weird one here then for wanting what I want but I think in my opinion, I really do crave community but one that lines up more with my values (going out, drinking, having fun, etc.). It's a perfect balance to where I might not want to try to play an exhausting social status game over and over again but I have found looking back, my most fun moments in life were when I was out with a cute girl and a large group of people as we felt like a part of a "tribe" and did fun things like get drunk, go to an awesome rooftop, have fun, and I was no longer the lonely PUA.
The more I think about it, the more I feel as if it is more of wanting what you cannot have.
I have had plenty of nights of when I went out, met a girl, and took her home. Doing it enough though, I felt like while it was fun, I kind of wanted community in my life but that is tough to find when you are not the most morally upright man on the planet. A lot of the community I could find was against drinking, partying hard, and was more about being seen as "pure" or morally self-righteous (professional groups, religious organizations, and overall goody two shoes).
I still remember back to my old days in college when I was always the loner on the outside looking in, not a part of any social groups and always going out alone. I don't want that in my life anymore.
I want to have a decent enough group to go out with which consists of hot girls and a couple of cool guy friends.
Now you discount the value of social status but I kind of have to disagree with you to an extent. As great as cold approach might be, I almost find that it has a ceiling. I find that the hottest women are not going to consider men who seem like outcasts or do not have a lot of social connections. Even on your posts, you have said to be weary of women who are out alone so I do not know why it is important for us to warn men to build that social network relevant to their life values.
To put it in another way @Chase I want to boil it down to this.
Pickup in and of its own, the act of approaching random women is morally seen as unacceptable, at least in America where society is so uptight and morally self-righteous. It leads to so many PUAs being social outcasts and just focusing on "game" but I feel as if really, we should be integrating social skills and being good with people into the PUA life.
That way, you have a social life and are good with game.
Then after that, focusing on staying good with game but also surrounding yourself with the network and crowd that is conducive to that.
I want to be in a situation where I am not just getting laid but I have a decent enough crew, with hot girls in it, to go out with.
As for me giving hot women to other men, it's not just other random men @Chase .
It is instances where let's say I have met a good friend or made good friends with a genuinely decent person, I can be the one who brings hot girls to their party or introduce him to a hot girl.
I think you are seeing it as any "cool guy", I am not doing it for social leverage over some douchebag with a big ego who happens to hold a title, I am doing it for guys who are my friends that I genuinely care about as people.
I guess I am the weird one here then for wanting what I want but I think in my opinion, I really do crave community but one that lines up more with my values (going out, drinking, having fun, etc.). It's a perfect balance to where I might not want to try to play an exhausting social status game over and over again but I have found looking back, my most fun moments in life were when I was out with a cute girl and a large group of people as we felt like a part of a "tribe" and did fun things like get drunk, go to an awesome rooftop, have fun, and I was no longer the lonely PUA.
The more I think about it, the more I feel as if it is more of wanting what you cannot have.
I have had plenty of nights of when I went out, met a girl, and took her home. Doing it enough though, I felt like while it was fun, I kind of wanted community in my life but that is tough to find when you are not the most morally upright man on the planet. A lot of the community I could find was against drinking, partying hard, and was more about being seen as "pure" or morally self-righteous (professional groups, religious organizations, and overall goody two shoes).
I still remember back to my old days in college when I was always the loner on the outside looking in, not a part of any social groups and always going out alone. I don't want that in my life anymore.
I want to have a decent enough group to go out with which consists of hot girls and a couple of cool guy friends.
Now you discount the value of social status but I kind of have to disagree with you to an extent. As great as cold approach might be, I almost find that it has a ceiling. I find that the hottest women are not going to consider men who seem like outcasts or do not have a lot of social connections. Even on your posts, you have said to be weary of women who are out alone so I do not know why it is important for us to warn men to build that social network relevant to their life values.
To put it in another way @Chase I want to boil it down to this.
Pickup in and of its own, the act of approaching random women is morally seen as unacceptable, at least in America where society is so uptight and morally self-righteous. It leads to so many PUAs being social outcasts and just focusing on "game" but I feel as if really, we should be integrating social skills and being good with people into the PUA life.
That way, you have a social life and are good with game.
Then after that, focusing on staying good with game but also surrounding yourself with the network and crowd that is conducive to that.
I want to be in a situation where I am not just getting laid but I have a decent enough crew, with hot girls in it, to go out with.
As for me giving hot women to other men, it's not just other random men @Chase .
It is instances where let's say I have met a good friend or made good friends with a genuinely decent person, I can be the one who brings hot girls to their party or introduce him to a hot girl.
I think you are seeing it as any "cool guy", I am not doing it for social leverage over some douchebag with a big ego who happens to hold a title, I am doing it for guys who are my friends that I genuinely care about as people.
Do both, no need to limit yourself.
Cold approach is great because you can literally do it anytime you want.