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If there is one pussy heaven in Europe... it must be the damn UK....
No place is easier. However, the quality is questionable.
Best,
Teevster
Is game harder than it was 10 years ago?
- Thread starter Karea Ricardus D.
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If there is one pussy heaven in Europe... it must be the damn UK....
No place is easier. However, the quality is questionable.
Best,
Teevster
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Okay I will clarify.
Compared to here in my city in Denmark where I have done daygame consistently for over 2 years in my experience Poland was way easier.
I got more rejections where the girl said she didn't speak english right off the bat, but if a girl spoke english, it was game on. Even counting the ones that rejected me straight off, because of language issues (which I found was mostly genuine, because I tried plowing sometimes ala "Aw it's okay, we can try, blah blah...." she would just look at me and smile and shake her head like she had no idea):
Here in Denmark:
1 in 40 approach to lay ratio
In Poland:
1 in 20 approach to lay ratio (less than 1 in 15 if you don't count the "no sorry i dont speak english) and it could have been higher if I had more days to close some really hot leads.
In 6 days I banged 3 new girls, generated a buttload of leads, and I slept with an old lay twice (she gave me some really good blowjobs the first day I got there because she was on her period and then we had some really amazing kinky sex the last night)
A Polish girl hooks way better.
When I just sit back and feel myself out I would say that gaming in Poland is better than here.
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Lots of good discussion here... Just to answer @Karea Ricardus D.'s question, I don't know about the past 10 years since I started game only 4 years ago (seriously only 3 years ago), it has definitely become difficult after covid hit. I'm a millennial and I can relate to most of the senior members here who have been through different eras.
I seriously started gaming in October 2019 and the first six months until Covid hit in March 2020, was the best time I've had in pick-up. I was not approaching seriously like how I have approached 1000s of girls with 3-5 girls every single day since then. I used to have AT LEAST one date every week. I banged (or went upto getting naked/bj etc) 21 girls in the first 6 months (most of them instadate or 30+ mins conversation + minimal texting since my text game is terrible). I had 100+ contacts (phone numbers/FB/IG). At one point I thought at this rate there is no fun. I think I was too hasty in thinking that. I'd think that's a good number for a beginner (although my friends call me a natural, I had zero knowledge about pickup and worse I didn't even know game existed).
What changed? I can't speak for everyone but just looking back one of the biggest reasons I can point to is 1). my neediness. When I started out, I had so many options that I was very cocky and it used to come across as confident. I think now I know what true confidence is. Yet, I struggle to fix my neediness. I don't think you can have an abundant mindset without having true abundance. Besides this main problem, the others things that affected me are:
2). Only thing I knew when I started was just to approach and the guy who introduced me to pickup was doing it for 5+ years and still thought I was doing good for a beginner with minimal approach anxiety. After sometime I started following Tom Torero (RIP) and his LDM model and it helped a lot. I didn't read or follow anything since in one of his podcasts he said don't follow many coaches even if you don't follow me (what a gem of a guy, truly miss him, Uncle Tom). Since April 2020 till now, I've banged 4 girls from daygame. I've had a few from social circle but I won't count them for the sake of this discussion. Since covid made getting results harder, I thought Tom's advice is not working, I should look for advice elsewhere and I've read every popular book on game and seduction. (Books from Mystery-MM, Rosh V, Gambler, a lot of articles on GC, Nick Notas, Reddit, Rollo Tomassi etc) watched a lot of videos on YouTube (rsd Tyler to Todd V to PWF to many more). I fucked up my mind with coupious amounts of seduction material which was not really needed. But I had so much time that I'd end up on one of these. So, I lost my natural abilities which girls can sense very easily when I'm super gamey.
3). Some of them have already mentioned about girls not coming out due to fear which is very true. I have an app for my city to track foot traffic in the CBD and I see it has remained almost same since covid started. It has come down by 70% since a lot of them work from home. So they don't need to come to the city center from suburbs.
4). Girls have gotten into relationships more than ever. I think they got into those relationships as a stop gap solution when covid hit but since it extended for such a long time, they've become comfortable in those relationships due to safety and security reasons. Girls used to go out more often for work or college in the past and competition with their friends would encourage them to breakup quite regularly and there were more girls in the market but now that they work and study from home, they don't have the urge to look out for new options. Also getting used to staying indoors have made them lazy and spend all of their waking time watching Netflix series or browsing social media. I know this cos I work from home too and I know about my hot female colleagues.
5). Online dating - I don't think much has changed here but it has definitely made it harder.
Girls are not getting laid online as much as guys think but they're getting their constant source of validation from the apps. So, they don't need to go out anymore. They've got used to it. One of my friend told me this and she is at best a 5 (sorry friend).
6). Constant announcements by govts about restrictions and panic has created a sense of fear in girls. So, they're not as easy to approach as it was before even if they aren't wearing masks. Their guard is up like girls in a night club. I've stopped approaching girls wearing masks completely. I was very good with indirect and indoors (where most of them wear masks) which was my bread and butter. But these days I'm only doing street game and the conversion rate is very bad for street game as you already know.
7). There are also no tourists and students that are coming to my city unlike in the past which is one of the major factors.
So, if the above things don't go back to how it was before, I think it is difficult and perhaps we have to find ways around it. (Maybe stalk her from her balcony lol)
BTW, I saw a few discussions about MM and his peacocking etc. It's one of the classic topics in every game forum. Leave the poor guy alone lol
We are talking about different generations and his game worked for his time and probably natural game wouldn't have worked then, who knows. Guys forget that game was refined over the years and those principles from people like him and others are the foundation stones of every guy that teaches pickup. I'm not a fan or anything but just found that comparison silly.
In general from what I've heard, game became increasingly difficult over the past 10 years with the advent of dating apps but from my experience it was a landslide after covid hit.
I seriously started gaming in October 2019 and the first six months until Covid hit in March 2020, was the best time I've had in pick-up. I was not approaching seriously like how I have approached 1000s of girls with 3-5 girls every single day since then. I used to have AT LEAST one date every week. I banged (or went upto getting naked/bj etc) 21 girls in the first 6 months (most of them instadate or 30+ mins conversation + minimal texting since my text game is terrible). I had 100+ contacts (phone numbers/FB/IG). At one point I thought at this rate there is no fun. I think I was too hasty in thinking that. I'd think that's a good number for a beginner (although my friends call me a natural, I had zero knowledge about pickup and worse I didn't even know game existed).
What changed? I can't speak for everyone but just looking back one of the biggest reasons I can point to is 1). my neediness. When I started out, I had so many options that I was very cocky and it used to come across as confident. I think now I know what true confidence is. Yet, I struggle to fix my neediness. I don't think you can have an abundant mindset without having true abundance. Besides this main problem, the others things that affected me are:
2). Only thing I knew when I started was just to approach and the guy who introduced me to pickup was doing it for 5+ years and still thought I was doing good for a beginner with minimal approach anxiety. After sometime I started following Tom Torero (RIP) and his LDM model and it helped a lot. I didn't read or follow anything since in one of his podcasts he said don't follow many coaches even if you don't follow me (what a gem of a guy, truly miss him, Uncle Tom). Since April 2020 till now, I've banged 4 girls from daygame. I've had a few from social circle but I won't count them for the sake of this discussion. Since covid made getting results harder, I thought Tom's advice is not working, I should look for advice elsewhere and I've read every popular book on game and seduction. (Books from Mystery-MM, Rosh V, Gambler, a lot of articles on GC, Nick Notas, Reddit, Rollo Tomassi etc) watched a lot of videos on YouTube (rsd Tyler to Todd V to PWF to many more). I fucked up my mind with coupious amounts of seduction material which was not really needed. But I had so much time that I'd end up on one of these. So, I lost my natural abilities which girls can sense very easily when I'm super gamey.
3). Some of them have already mentioned about girls not coming out due to fear which is very true. I have an app for my city to track foot traffic in the CBD and I see it has remained almost same since covid started. It has come down by 70% since a lot of them work from home. So they don't need to come to the city center from suburbs.
4). Girls have gotten into relationships more than ever. I think they got into those relationships as a stop gap solution when covid hit but since it extended for such a long time, they've become comfortable in those relationships due to safety and security reasons. Girls used to go out more often for work or college in the past and competition with their friends would encourage them to breakup quite regularly and there were more girls in the market but now that they work and study from home, they don't have the urge to look out for new options. Also getting used to staying indoors have made them lazy and spend all of their waking time watching Netflix series or browsing social media. I know this cos I work from home too and I know about my hot female colleagues.
5). Online dating - I don't think much has changed here but it has definitely made it harder.
Girls are not getting laid online as much as guys think but they're getting their constant source of validation from the apps. So, they don't need to go out anymore. They've got used to it. One of my friend told me this and she is at best a 5 (sorry friend).
6). Constant announcements by govts about restrictions and panic has created a sense of fear in girls. So, they're not as easy to approach as it was before even if they aren't wearing masks. Their guard is up like girls in a night club. I've stopped approaching girls wearing masks completely. I was very good with indirect and indoors (where most of them wear masks) which was my bread and butter. But these days I'm only doing street game and the conversion rate is very bad for street game as you already know.
7). There are also no tourists and students that are coming to my city unlike in the past which is one of the major factors.
So, if the above things don't go back to how it was before, I think it is difficult and perhaps we have to find ways around it. (Maybe stalk her from her balcony lol)
BTW, I saw a few discussions about MM and his peacocking etc. It's one of the classic topics in every game forum. Leave the poor guy alone lol
We are talking about different generations and his game worked for his time and probably natural game wouldn't have worked then, who knows. Guys forget that game was refined over the years and those principles from people like him and others are the foundation stones of every guy that teaches pickup. I'm not a fan or anything but just found that comparison silly.
In general from what I've heard, game became increasingly difficult over the past 10 years with the advent of dating apps but from my experience it was a landslide after covid hit.
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That is so odd. I have lived in DK for 3 years and I have never racked up as many lays ever. I consider DK to be one of the better places for seducers: - Liberal sexual morality
- Decently hot girls
- Men there are the most useless men I have ever seen in all Scandinavia when it comes to girls - literally 0 competition.
- Great nightlife (Copenhagen that is)
- Cheap booze
Can't ask for more!
(I have 100+ lays from DK so this is not based on speculation)
Language barrier is an issue, I can accept that. Let us leave that factor aside.
But hooking does not mean "easier to lay". Again women show resistance in different phases.
That said, I never struggled hooking in daygame in DK, although.... daygame is not known to work well in Scandinavia due to the cultural element of "not talking with strangers unless drunk". Especially if you opted for more DIRECT game (big NONO in Scandinavia) you would have struggled hooking.
In my experience I have had BETTER experience daygaming in Eastern Europe (First success for me was Croatia).
Perhaps this explains the disparity: you did daygame in a country where daygame is "hard" (it is not impossible to daygame in Denmark, it just is a bit harder) and then went to a place where daygame statistically is known to work better? Try the Polish nightlife and you will experience LOUD clubs with attention whore fiestas. Trust me on this one.
Also, perhaps you used a more direct approach - if so that would explain the terrible ratio in DK. We all know direct game has a lower hit ratio than indirect, but I have noticed one gets away with it more easily in more southern and eastern countries in Europe. Direct game works for example better in France compared to DK. It also seems based on data that it works decently well in EE.
HINT: indirect game works everywhere and always works better than direct game, no matter where you are
Another factor that may come to play is that your personality and social stereotype (social frame) matches more that social frame of polish girls compared to danes? This aspect should not be disregarded as this will play a huge role on your hook ratio.
Anyway what do I know? I am just trying to understand how you had such an easy time in a place that is not known by veterans to be easy (not saying Poland is hard, but it surely is not easy), while at the same time struggling in a place where many here have had no problems pulling from (DK: Glow, myself, Carousel, Razorjack, Pelusita, and so on).
Well, let me know what you think.
Best,
Teevster
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That is so odd. I have lived in DK for 3 years and I have never racked up as many lays ever. I consider DK to be one of the better places for seducers: - Liberal sexual morality
- Decently hot girls
- Men there are the most useless men I have ever seen in all Scandinavia when it comes to girls - literally 0 competition.
- Great nightlife (Copenhagen that is)
- Cheap booze
Can't ask for more!
(I have 100+ lays from DK so this is not based on speculation)
Language barrier is an issue, I can accept that. Let us leave that factor aside.
But hooking does not mean "easier to lay". Again women show resistance in different phases.
That said, I never struggled hooking in daygame in DK, although.... daygame is not known to work well in Scandinavia due to the cultural element of "not talking with strangers unless drunk". Especially if you opted for more DIRECT game (big NONO in Scandinavia) you would have struggled hooking.
In my experience I have had BETTER experience daygaming in Eastern Europe (First success for me was Croatia).
Perhaps this explains the disparity: you did daygame in a country where daygame is "hard" (it is not impossible to daygame in Denmark, it just is a bit harder) and then went to a place where daygame statistically is known to work better? Try the Polish nightlife and you will experience LOUD clubs with attention whore fiestas. Trust me on this one.
Also, perhaps you used a more direct approach - if so that would explain the terrible ratio in DK. We all know direct game has a lower hit ratio than indirect, but I have noticed one gets away with it more easily in more southern and eastern countries in Europe. Direct game works for example better in France compared to DK. It also seems based on data that it works decently well in EE.
HINT: indirect game works everywhere and always works better than direct game, no matter where you are
Another factor that may come to play is that your personality and social stereotype (social frame) matches more that social frame of polish girls compared to danes? This aspect should not be disregarded as this will play a huge role on your hook ratio.
Anyway what do I know? I am just trying to understand how you had such an easy time in a place that is not known by veterans to be easy (not saying Poland is hard, but it surely is not easy), while at the same time struggling in a place where many here have had no problems pulling from (DK: Glow, myself, Carousel, Razorjack, Pelusita, and so on).
Well, let me know what you think.
Best,
Teevster
Perhaps you are looking at this from a very high view and you are downplaying some factors that you, @Teevster, can control but other experienced guys still consider out of their reach.
For example, some country where women don’t talk with strangers… some experienced guys will say “alright, can’t do anything about it” and you will say “just need to adjust my social frame so I am not a stranger”.
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I did Poland for the first time back in 2010 and Norway (pretty similar to Denmark) since 2007.
So not sure if this applies here.
Also girls in DK do talk to strangers - but usually not in the street. The social code is mostly "I talk to strangers when I am partying".
Secondly I did daygame in Norway in 2008 and 9 and they are known to be as cold if not colder than Danes.
Best,
-Teevster
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Teevester you did denmark 2007 and poland 2010 i mean so many holes in argument:
Peter started gaming in corona era
The op is is game harder today vs 10 years ago...
One of the solutions Field tested by 100s of players is go to favorable market place...
I explained practically the why with examples and gave you sample of a dude from a forum i helped that increase his ratios in poland almost double... you went all over the place with direct and inderect that had 0 to do with anything... i mean this is super silly... we are getting to the point that we can not even have a factual discussion..
I mean what is next should i name drop dudes traveling increasing their ratios...
Noone said go to different country and pay for pussy..
Country x pussy paradise
Again game has gotten more complex for some including guys active in the community...
Different field tested strategies to get around as solutions including going to a more favorable sexual market place...
Best things as design by community field test other than this, huge waste of time, go field test in 2022. Report back whoever want to field test...
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I never stated that I moved to DK in 2007. I lived there between 2016 and 2019. I lived in Norway in 2007. Please reread what I wrote.
I went to Poland for the first time in 2010 and the LAST TIME in 2018. I have comparative numbers for BOTH POLAND and SCANDINAVIA. That means I have data from RECENTLY as well as BACK IN THE DAYS for both POLAND and SCANDINAVIA. Poland hasn't changed much since 2010, aside from the fact that is has become more pricey.
Poland is thus not known to be one of them.
Favorable meat markets are usually places filled with prostitution.
You came with an anecdote of a guy with 34 lays, who went to poland, got 3 lays, and has a 1/40 ratio in his country.
I responded with the perspective of a guy with over 300 lays (and I hate talking about my lay count, but I felt forced to it), been to poland 6 times, shagged 11 girls in that country ( didn't pull each time I went there since I actually went there once with a GF). In addition I had 1/5 ratio doing pick up in the country where your anecdote live.
So why is my perspective less worth than the one you provided based on someone with limited experience?
Not only that, I also shared the experience of other veteran seducers. Why is the experience of a player with 34 lays more worth than the experience 4-5 (!) veterans? Now it is your turn to get factual.
Again, you guys mentioned Poland only, and Poland IS NOT a sexual heaven.
Please, and I beg you, please list a pussy paradise that is not a prostitution heaven (i.e. not Thailand and Brazil and the like).
And heck, even if I would agree that Thailand is pretty easy game, it is far from being a pussy paradise (unless you pay).
Edit: actually, Poland is also famous for its stripclubs and prostitution. I know tons of dudes who go there to drink, eat and fuck (hookers). All the guys I know who talk of Poland as a pussy heaven talked positively about the brothels.
Again Skills - have you been there??? Oh... guess what you haven't. you are entering KJ zone here my friend.
This is getting truly silly.
I had no choice because that 1 case you provided (and again 3 lays - that is 3 good outings, is not enough to prove a whole pick up theory, especially when that theory has been disproven by people with 100's of lays).
Hence I did my best to try to understand that simple outlier, because the anecdote you provided is a case of an outlier. Doesn't mean it is less interesting, but it remains an outlier nevertheless. Hence perhaps he got lucky? or perhaps he used the right type of game in one place, or perhaps he is doing something wrong where he lives (Razorjack, Glow, Carousel, Myself, Pelusita, have had no problems running pu in DK - but I guess our experience counts for NOTHING compared to your student).
Now, are you back into trolling mode skills?
Or is this yet another post where you argue with me only for telling me a few months later that I was right, as per usual?
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From the perspective of a guy with a 3 figure notch count in Poland, which is not really anything to brag about since I'm probably around Skills' age and have been there since early 2000s, and a portion of those lays was before I learnt any "seduction skills" (and I was no natural), I don't understand why this is so hard to get.
I can recall back in the day guys with horrid skills getting action, and many still do. Being a foreigner, girls would stare at you on a daily basis, even when holding hands with their boyfriends. You could regularly grab decent looking girls on the dancefloor without saying a word and escalate to heavy kino, tongue kissing, fingering, etc. Hell, I remember a mute Italian guy snogging a girl on the dancefloor. Incredible times. And some of the stories I've heard from guys who were here in the 90s were even more outrageous.
Guys who wouldn't get looked at by a half decent looking British girl due to their nationality, appearance or accent can get some in Poland. Granted it's become more westernised and is nowhere near as "magical" as back in the day but for average guys struggling in a western country its probably still going to be a bit easier, especially for "marginalised guys".
Maybe for a seasoned seducer it's the same as everywhere else, put that down to weird taste in men or whatever.
Of course it also depends on where you go. If you're indian or African and you end up in some xenophobic venue, obviously you're gonna have a totally different experience than in a foreigner friendly club or bar. But there are much better places in the world now than Poland, e.g. parts of South East Asia, I've heard Brazil is good too. The real golden age in Poland is over.
I can recall back in the day guys with horrid skills getting action, and many still do. Being a foreigner, girls would stare at you on a daily basis, even when holding hands with their boyfriends. You could regularly grab decent looking girls on the dancefloor without saying a word and escalate to heavy kino, tongue kissing, fingering, etc. Hell, I remember a mute Italian guy snogging a girl on the dancefloor. Incredible times. And some of the stories I've heard from guys who were here in the 90s were even more outrageous.
Guys who wouldn't get looked at by a half decent looking British girl due to their nationality, appearance or accent can get some in Poland. Granted it's become more westernised and is nowhere near as "magical" as back in the day but for average guys struggling in a western country its probably still going to be a bit easier, especially for "marginalised guys".
Maybe for a seasoned seducer it's the same as everywhere else, put that down to weird taste in men or whatever.
Of course it also depends on where you go. If you're indian or African and you end up in some xenophobic venue, obviously you're gonna have a totally different experience than in a foreigner friendly club or bar. But there are much better places in the world now than Poland, e.g. parts of South East Asia, I've heard Brazil is good too. The real golden age in Poland is over.
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for this i apologize i misunderstood the dates, i thought you said you game there in 2007 and 2010...
Again we are not talking about prostituation or pay for play, favorable means an edge a bit easier, again nothing to do with prostitution.
I use his example cause is someone that is closed to me and i was witnessing his ratios double in poland, but there are many many other examples of people having success in colombia, latin america, brazil, thailand, poland... The reason i don't name drop them, is cause they are people noone here knows, we also have a dude, baron, that actually lives in poland and is verifying this.... HIs lay count is a strawman, his ratios double, he found the game for him easier, and he was a witness that he had an easier time laying girls in poland. Your perspective is valid, but it has nothing to do with one of the solutions i suggest to go to a favorable market place if you have the means, many seducers do this, and have been doing this for year. P.S. his 34 lays came as a newer guy to pu that join post corona more than most in the forum at this same trajectory.
You keep strawmaning with "prostitution" "pussy paradise" whatever that means... And no i have not been there, nor do i want to be there, polish girls do really like my type so i am sure i will do well there, like i do everywhere i travel such as brazil, costa rica etc.... But, i do not need to "travel" to succeed and do my thing, plus i hate to "travel" but my type of game, dance style and look, barely talking physical, i can guarantee you i can do good in poland, though polish girls are no my type at all... the women from Europe my type are mainly in spain and germany. I don't like to travel, but that has nothing to do with my point.
^ no i have not , but a guy close to me has and i witness it, how is this kj zone?? dude a guy i help constantly travel to poland and double his results, you are strawmaning dude.
But there are also people with 100s of lays in favorable market places all over the place that say the contrary... A lot of pua companies have even have or had headquaters in poland.
Those are night gamers with 10 plus years experience you are comparing with a dude that started post corona 2 years in, great comparison...
When i am wrong and wrong and i don't hate to admit if i have to, but you have been wrong as well about a lot of subjects, this is not a pissing contest...
Are you back to pmsing emotional mode teevester??? see i can do add hominen too dude...
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A simple question I keep asking, which you seem to dodge is:
Why is it easier for beginners to get laid in poland, and harder for advanced guys?
And i could add a secondary question, since you refer to @Skjöldr why is it harder for him to get laid in DK, whereas it is much easier for experienced guys.
This is the question that i want the answer to.
Regarding Baron, he said himself that Poland was a pussy paradise 20 years ago after the fall of communism and that things have changed (economically and socially... for the better). I am willing to buy that (I didn't travel to Poland or EE back then so I will keep my mouth shut).
Regarding KJ-zone is because you make points about X by only referring to what others experience and not your own. I refer to both MY own in addition to experience from multiple other dudes.
Edit: I always hear dudes saying X place is awesome for pussy etc... but then I visit and I realize it isn't and when I confront the guys, stories about strip clubs and brothels usually come up. "Getting laid" and doing "pick up" is synonymous for us, but not for most men.
-Teevster
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Honestly, I have no idea really WHY, it is just my experience... you brought up some good points as to why I struggle more here than elsewhere. Those are all very plausible explanations. You are correct that I am a daygamer and I haven't done much nightgame here, because I found it to be mostly a waste of time and the girls extremely unapproachable. Couldn't really find good venues. Whereas in for an example Poland the girls were way more open to talking. And I think Skills is right that alot of things could have happened here post corona as opposed to pre corona.
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All the polish people I know are caucasian with blonde hair... how can they know if a person is a westerner apart from accent if they look the same? The non-white (black, Asian, Indian) westerners will be the only ones their that look different?
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Why is it easier for beginners to get laid in poland, and "harder" for advanced guys?
A few insights ...
1) Many girls have different (let's be honest, shitty) taste in men. An "advanced guy" might find himself competing with a wider spectrum of guys.
2) Guys who get rejected in other countries due to their nationality, look, accent etc are going to find girls, even very attractive girls, more tolerant (at least in certain bars and clubs). An "advanced" western guy won't notice as much of a difference.
3) Girls tend to be less confident and less influenced by woke culture, which results in them tolerating behaviours that would get a man rejected in other places. An "advanced guy" might not notice the difference.
4) Many girls don't want to be seen as an easy lay to a foreigner (this comes from their awareness of their country's past reputation) so any hint of a manipulative player vibe will make them resist a bit. (but this seems to be changing with the new gen)
5) language barrier may even the playing field a bit -- with many girls, you're going to have to dumb down your English, which means forget about using complex gambits/routines/innuendos or whatever. I've known naturals who've done very well here by keeping things very simple. I don't know if they'd be able to pull off the same results outside Poland.
Again, I stress, it's also highly dependent on where you meet girls. DG is pretty consistent, but in bars and clubs, different venues and different nights will yield totally different results. In certain fancy clubs in Warsaw, for example, it's going to be harder for everyone, especially for beginners.
I've heard other theories, e.g. that many girls feel insecure with a confident, more alpha guy and they prefer being with a more wimpy guy, as they can control him and are sure he's not fucking around. I'm not sure about that, but you do often see attractive girls leading their submissive looking boyfriends by the hand. Anyway, this tends to be a phenomenon mainly among the locals and is something that's changed a bit over the years.
A few insights ...
1) Many girls have different (let's be honest, shitty) taste in men. An "advanced guy" might find himself competing with a wider spectrum of guys.
2) Guys who get rejected in other countries due to their nationality, look, accent etc are going to find girls, even very attractive girls, more tolerant (at least in certain bars and clubs). An "advanced" western guy won't notice as much of a difference.
3) Girls tend to be less confident and less influenced by woke culture, which results in them tolerating behaviours that would get a man rejected in other places. An "advanced guy" might not notice the difference.
4) Many girls don't want to be seen as an easy lay to a foreigner (this comes from their awareness of their country's past reputation) so any hint of a manipulative player vibe will make them resist a bit. (but this seems to be changing with the new gen)
5) language barrier may even the playing field a bit -- with many girls, you're going to have to dumb down your English, which means forget about using complex gambits/routines/innuendos or whatever. I've known naturals who've done very well here by keeping things very simple. I don't know if they'd be able to pull off the same results outside Poland.
Again, I stress, it's also highly dependent on where you meet girls. DG is pretty consistent, but in bars and clubs, different venues and different nights will yield totally different results. In certain fancy clubs in Warsaw, for example, it's going to be harder for everyone, especially for beginners.
I've heard other theories, e.g. that many girls feel insecure with a confident, more alpha guy and they prefer being with a more wimpy guy, as they can control him and are sure he's not fucking around. I'm not sure about that, but you do often see attractive girls leading their submissive looking boyfriends by the hand. Anyway, this tends to be a phenomenon mainly among the locals and is something that's changed a bit over the years.
Wow. Many guys from those countries come to Poland precisely because their own women suck by comparison in the looks department. Germany has a particularly bad reputation in Europe, although the girls tend to be more fun and engaging to talk to.
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Lol i am into big butts.
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Lol you have to open right? Lol
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That seems to be a Miami thing. I had a visitor from Miami who told me the same, that Polish/Russian/Ukrainian etc girls would be considered too skinny in Miami. But a lot of the girls you guys go for over there we'd consider to be fat.
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Yep, got a deal with this all the time...
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Interesting discussion guys. I think the distinction might be simply in how much you stand out, i.e. novelty factor. That's an advantage for white guys in Asia, Africa and certain regions of Latin America, and for non-whites in Western countries like Europe.
Roosh stood out in Poland based on his Persian ethnicity and I've heard the same from other non-white friends. They had an easy time in Eastern Europe, even in places where White veterans I know didn't have it easier (Serbia, Ukraine etc.), "Hard" Eastern European countries are easy for the "Latin Lover" types because... they are a novelty there. I guess Poland isn't much easier for guys who ethnically look like they might be Polish. Teevster you probably didn't stand out as a foreigner in Poland, so no advantage. Only a disadvantage, the language barrier.
I've spent all my life traveling and living in different countries. Last count I had 23 flags so I've seen all kinds of situations and permutations. I haven't done much Eastern Europe because I hate messing with language barriers. My game is all charisma and verbals. South East Asia however is definitely way easier for Westerners, whether you use money or not - same reason mentioned above, novelty and standing out. I have dozens of lays in SEA without even buying drinks for the girls and while I wrote about this on a small closed and private forum, I didn't even call those lay reports. I just called them journal entries cause the girls were just into it and not much skill was required.
I've also spent a lot of time in Latin America... here it depends a lot on where you go. A friend of mine did an experiment in Medellin, he asked all his tinder matches if they want to come over to have sex for money, he said almost all of them said yes. So I guess guys have an easy time in Medellin in particular because there is a lot of gold digging and covert prostitution on the apps there. Girls who would fuck for money would also go on a date with a foreigner without asking for money up front, but with similar motives medium or long term. This is nothing new, I saw this going on in the 90s.
Latin America is easier if you stand out. I've seen some gringos with the blond surfer look have a downhill battle here like I did in South East Asia but for average looking white guys it's not that much easier than other countries, unless you deal with these covert prostitution situations on the apps, or in clubs and bars that are known gringo hangouts and that have gringo hunters hanging around. Culturally women are friendly up front so it may seem easier but then you have a lot of mistrust of strangers due to high crime, and a lot of catholic bullshit and LMR. For average Joe, it pretty much evens out (unless you're that blond gringo that sticks out like a sore thumb and gets a lot of novelty attraction).
I could write a book about this topic after 2 decades traveling the world but in summation I would say: if you don't use money, then the one distinction is this novelty factor and standing out from the ethnic group of the place you're in, which gets a lot of attention, curiosity and in many cases attraction. In most parts of Brazil there is so much European heritage that 100% of people I talk to assume I'm a local for example, so I don't get bonus points there even though it's not a first world country. On the other hand, Japan was piss easy for me, just ridiculous, even though it is a first world country and all those girls have money... but I was the proverbial sore thumb there too.
Roosh stood out in Poland based on his Persian ethnicity and I've heard the same from other non-white friends. They had an easy time in Eastern Europe, even in places where White veterans I know didn't have it easier (Serbia, Ukraine etc.), "Hard" Eastern European countries are easy for the "Latin Lover" types because... they are a novelty there. I guess Poland isn't much easier for guys who ethnically look like they might be Polish. Teevster you probably didn't stand out as a foreigner in Poland, so no advantage. Only a disadvantage, the language barrier.
I've spent all my life traveling and living in different countries. Last count I had 23 flags so I've seen all kinds of situations and permutations. I haven't done much Eastern Europe because I hate messing with language barriers. My game is all charisma and verbals. South East Asia however is definitely way easier for Westerners, whether you use money or not - same reason mentioned above, novelty and standing out. I have dozens of lays in SEA without even buying drinks for the girls and while I wrote about this on a small closed and private forum, I didn't even call those lay reports. I just called them journal entries cause the girls were just into it and not much skill was required.
I've also spent a lot of time in Latin America... here it depends a lot on where you go. A friend of mine did an experiment in Medellin, he asked all his tinder matches if they want to come over to have sex for money, he said almost all of them said yes. So I guess guys have an easy time in Medellin in particular because there is a lot of gold digging and covert prostitution on the apps there. Girls who would fuck for money would also go on a date with a foreigner without asking for money up front, but with similar motives medium or long term. This is nothing new, I saw this going on in the 90s.
Latin America is easier if you stand out. I've seen some gringos with the blond surfer look have a downhill battle here like I did in South East Asia but for average looking white guys it's not that much easier than other countries, unless you deal with these covert prostitution situations on the apps, or in clubs and bars that are known gringo hangouts and that have gringo hunters hanging around. Culturally women are friendly up front so it may seem easier but then you have a lot of mistrust of strangers due to high crime, and a lot of catholic bullshit and LMR. For average Joe, it pretty much evens out (unless you're that blond gringo that sticks out like a sore thumb and gets a lot of novelty attraction).
I could write a book about this topic after 2 decades traveling the world but in summation I would say: if you don't use money, then the one distinction is this novelty factor and standing out from the ethnic group of the place you're in, which gets a lot of attention, curiosity and in many cases attraction. In most parts of Brazil there is so much European heritage that 100% of people I talk to assume I'm a local for example, so I don't get bonus points there even though it's not a first world country. On the other hand, Japan was piss easy for me, just ridiculous, even though it is a first world country and all those girls have money... but I was the proverbial sore thumb there too.
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By the way, back on the original topic of the thread... So since the introduction of tinder, the amount of men who are not having sex has more than doubled from ~12% to 28%. I think screen time in general has increased, which contributed, but mostly I'd like to ask one question:
These additional 16% of men who used to get sex but aren't anymore... are they only using the apps and otherwise being wall flowers in real life situations around girls? Did they get their self confidence crushed by the apps and hence take less initiative now?
In other words, we have data that guys are getting laid less, but has the real-world SMP actually changed, or has it only changed on tinder AND for guys who behave differently now DUE TO tinder and other screen nonsense going on?
And if the answer is the latter, could this actually be an advantage, because these 16% have been removed from our competition now? I'm not saying I know the answers to these questions, I'm just speculating but it's interesting to think about.
These additional 16% of men who used to get sex but aren't anymore... are they only using the apps and otherwise being wall flowers in real life situations around girls? Did they get their self confidence crushed by the apps and hence take less initiative now?
In other words, we have data that guys are getting laid less, but has the real-world SMP actually changed, or has it only changed on tinder AND for guys who behave differently now DUE TO tinder and other screen nonsense going on?
And if the answer is the latter, could this actually be an advantage, because these 16% have been removed from our competition now? I'm not saying I know the answers to these questions, I'm just speculating but it's interesting to think about.
The below is what I could think of in terms of data.
I am sure most of you have seen this chart. I do not remember what was the method of gathering the data. But still, it indicates something.
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