Attraction - Can it be Generated? - An Introduction to Compliance-Based Game

[YS.]

Reading this comment (trying to lay a 'red' 9.5 VS go for a 'green' 9), and the last couple of comments on @Ree now locked thread between @Truthtomasses (who was called a troll by razorjack) and @Ree on the importance of location, I was reminded of this comment by @Razorjack on sedfast last year. Where he talked about why he'd go for an 'easy' 8 over a 'time consuming' 10, everytime. Didnt really think much of it at the time until now:

What I'm trying to get to here is the environment and places that where you are picking up women is going to make a huge difference to your success as a seducer for the women that you are interested in. I'm not interested in "learning seductions skills or pick up game", I'm more interested in efficiently getting results. So if I were to advise my younger self on becoming more successful with women or money, my advice would be rather than spending your time trying to improve skills in the gaming environment you're in, you would see a huge improvement in results by simply changing the parameters of the game or the gaming environment, e.g. stacking the deck in your favor.

People would be more successful if they evaluate and understand what it is they REALLY want. For example, I know that many will probably dismiss this as "gold-digger" pick up game or that this isn't "real seduction game" or whatever they want to label it. I would argue that these people are more interested in "learning to be a seducer or looking like a great pick up artist" rather than actual results with women. Yes, there are people like this. I meet them all the time, people who complain that making lots of money and becoming financially successful is difficult. When I explain to them that it's actually very easy following some simple principles and billionaires wouldn't become billionaires if it was very difficult, they dismiss is it as not realistic and couldn't be that easy. Then it's obvious to me that what these people REALLY want is getting satisfaction from working very hard NOT in becoming wealthy. There is nothing wrong with getting satisfaction from hard work but people become their own worst enemies and blockers to their own success when they complain about not getting results but at the same time don't realize that they deep down REALLY want something else.

And THAT is how a "rusty" 48 year old like me can hook hot girls half his age in a Copenhagen night club full of young girls without doing anything other than saying "hi"

You arrived at a much more reasonable place with your arguments than what you've started with.

The issue people (and me) had with you is that you completely dismissed the existence of Maybe girls, thought No girls are physically impossible to get and attraction is inherent, static and binary.

I have no problem with anything you've said on this post and agree with almost all of them. I think if you framed things like that in the first place nobody would have any problems with it.

Gave you a like.

Keep crushing them clubs Velasco!

 

[Spyce D]

Once this corona shit is over , I think I will empirically test (as @Chase puts it) @Teevster s compliance based tactic myself and then decide whether it is good or not and if it works for me or not .

Coz , Reasons being I am still 21 and have lot of time , I like @Teevster style of writing on GC website and am trying to model my game a little bit like him .

So, we 'll see what happens.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I am only replying to this thread because I received the notification that @Velasco and @Razorjack mentioned me by name, it is only fair for me to defend myself here. To be painfully honest with you Razor, I agree with what you said on this thread but I just found your behavior disrespectful and off-putting, hence the disagreement. I'll be the bigger man here and actually say that I do agree with your post entirely on this thread.

For example, from my own experience, it is not worth it in the USA to game in college towns if you are an older guy. You simply run the risk of being victim to social politics and other things going against you to the point that the guys in a fraternity who are 18-21 have a leg up on your, even if you are better looking and more successful. The reason I know this is because I have been on both sides of the fence in this arena.

I also found your post that @Velasco pulled up as pure value, you make great points and a lot of that frustrates me too. Guys who want to go out and spam approach to prove themselves that they are doing "game" compared to guys who are actually getting results. Get me the guy who gets 20 lays in a year with hot girl while not doing 500+ approaches over a guy that does 1k+ approaches and doesn't get shit.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Long post but I did read through it @Teevster and I think it does deserve a like

I did not get the chance to read all the responses in the thread but I have been in a situation before where I had a "type" (tanned brunette white girls) and I did well with anyone but that type. Now I am a swarthy white guy who gets told he looks a lot like the dude in the pic below:

Blondes loved me and typically where I grew up, guys who had my type of look ended up with blondes while guys who looked more Aryan/blond haired ended up hot girls with the look I was into. I think this might just be common the world over, the whole biology and mixing genes or whatever shit I would not get into. Other members who share my look have apparently brought this very thing up. You're in Europe and I am sure both you and @Razorjack who is in Scandinavia probably see instances where a Nordic guy goes to the Mediterranean and cleans up while a Mediterranean guy has a higher value up north.

I even chatted up this really hot dark haired girl with olive skin and brown eyes who flat out told me "I can't date you, you look like my brother". Maybe it was a shit test I failed miserably but who knows, needless to say, my mind was not in it. I was focused so much on getting these girls but always found that a hot blonde was naturally more into me, nicer to me, more flirty, and my type would almost push me to "prove" myself. I kind of felt like I was having to fight for a chance as opposed to just being myself, it became a dilemma for me.

That was what I found was the problem, sometimes man, the battle is inside yourself and not outside.

Maybe I was acting too try-hard with these girls, carrying emotional baggage to the approach, and probably a novel of issues that were so subconscious that I started to become my own worst enemy. Now I know you want to hear how I overcame my inner game problems and went on to becoming the king of all pickup artists, not exactly.

I found that for a while, approaching hot girls with the look I deep down loved was kind of making me uncomfortable, it was bringing out the worst in me at times and surfacing my insecurities. What I did was start to game girls I was comfortable around meaning if it was not a Caucasian brunette with tanned skin, I was approaching her with my best.

What I did was I trained myself to be happy without being so attached to any type of woman, I found fulfillment in myself first. I promised myself that I am going to have a kickass awesome 10/10 life even if I never ever fuck my type, ever. The girls who are my "market" are going to get my absolute best and for my type, out of sight was out of mind. I'd even ignore my type intentionally and just focus on women who I felt brought out the most positive energy within me. At times, I'd have the type I always wanted give me blatant IOIs which I'd ignore and not act on until they became obvious.

Somehow it all started to come together because I found fulfillment in myself outside of women, I stopped letting that kind of shit beat me down. I ended up getting attention from women who were not my market because I was around women who were my market and I was my best self.

Now I can approach my type because I've already slept with a great deal of women who fit that look over the past few years.

My big lesson here was that always go for your market and with the types of girls you are strongest with. What you will eventually find is that some girls who are not of your market will now get curious out of you having other women in your life and now try to come into your life.

 

[Spyce D]

Long post but I did read through it @Teevster and I think it does deserve a like

I did not get the chance to read all the responses in the thread but I have been in a situation before where I had a "type" (tanned brunette white girls) and I did well with anyone but that type. Now I am a swarthy white guy who gets told he looks a lot like the dude in the pic below:

Blondes loved me and typically where I grew up, guys who had my type of look ended up with blondes while guys who looked more Aryan/blond haired ended up hot girls with the look I was into. I think this might just be common the world over, the whole biology and mixing genes or whatever shit I would not get into. Other members who share my look have apparently brought this very thing up. You're in Europe and I am sure both you and @Razorjack who is in Scandinavia probably see instances where a Nordic guy goes to the Mediterranean and cleans up while a Mediterranean guy has a higher value up north.

I even chatted up this really hot dark haired girl with olive skin and brown eyes who flat out told me "I can't date you, you look like my brother". Maybe it was a shit test I failed miserably but who knows, needless to say, my mind was not in it. I was focused so much on getting these girls but always found that a hot blonde was naturally more into me, nicer to me, more flirty, and my type would almost push me to "prove" myself. I kind of felt like I was having to fight for a chance as opposed to just being myself, it became a dilemma for me.

That was what I found was the problem, sometimes man, the battle is inside yourself and not outside.

Maybe I was acting too try-hard with these girls, carrying emotional baggage to the approach, and probably a novel of issues that were so subconscious that I started to become my own worst enemy. Now I know you want to hear how I overcame my inner game problems and went on to becoming the king of all pickup artists, not exactly.

I found that for a while, approaching hot girls with the look I deep down loved was kind of making me uncomfortable, it was bringing out the worst in me at times and surfacing my insecurities. What I did was start to game girls I was comfortable around meaning if it was not a Caucasian brunette with tanned skin, I was approaching her with my best.

What I did was I trained myself to be happy without being so attached to any type of woman, I found fulfillment in myself first. I promised myself that I am going to have a kickass awesome 10/10 life even if I never ever fuck my type, ever. The girls who are my "market" are going to get my absolute best and for my type, out of sight was out of mind. I'd even ignore my type intentionally and just focus on women who I felt brought out the most positive energy within me. At times, I'd have the type I always wanted give me blatant IOIs which I'd ignore and not act on until they became obvious.

Somehow it all started to come together because I found fulfillment in myself outside of women, I stopped letting that kind of shit beat me down. I ended up getting attention from women who were not my market because I was around women who were my market and I was my best self.

Now I can approach my type because I've already slept with a great deal of women who fit that look over the past few years.

My big lesson here was that always go for your market and with the types of girls you are strongest with. What you will eventually find is that some girls who are not of your market will now get curious out of you having other women in your life and now try to come into your life.

I needed to learn this so bad . Thanks

 

[Razorjack]

2. There are Girls whom are truly Reds because they never have and never WILL like you

@Grand Pooba ,

I think this "Red, Yellow and Green" attraction traffic light thing is one of the most useless and self-limiting "theories" ever. It may help newbies to see things in an easy way, but it terms of improving result, it's useless.

Let me complete the answer for you:

"2. There are Girls whom are truly Reds because they never have and never WILL like you in a specific set of conditions and circumstances"

Here is a crazy thought, what would it take for you to believe the sky is green?

You may think this is stupid because you would never believe it was green, but what if 1000 or 10,000 or 1million people told you it was green and that you must be color blind. What if you were the only one in the world who thought it was blue making you a social outcast? How long then until you start to change your mind?

Attraction can be seen the same way:

What if the girl that was "truly RED" when you first saw her, was now in a setting / social circle / culture that admired guys like you and guys like you were seen as the "elite" and everybody now thinks that she is extremely stupid and became a "social outcast" for not seeing you as attractive.

I have seen and experienced this myself many times, the same girl could be a "truly RED" in one country / culture / nightclub and "the greenest of greens" in another setting.

Seriously, if you guys want to achieve results, stop wasting energy trying to develop some all encompassing attraction theory and work on figuring out how you can create those conditions where the REDs become GREENs. To me this question is worth the time and energy solving.

 

[Grand Pooba]

@Grand Pooba ,

I think this "Red, Yellow and Green" attraction traffic light thing is one of the most useless and self-limiting "theories" ever. It may help newbies to see things in an easy way, but it terms of improving result, it's useless.

Let me complete the answer for you:

"2. There are Girls whom are truly Reds because they never have and never WILL like you in a specific set of conditions and circumstances"

Here is a crazy thought, what would it take for you to believe the sky is green?

You may think this is stupid because you would never believe it was green, but what if 1000 or 10,000 or 1million people told you it was green and that you must be color blind. What if you were the only one in the world who thought it was blue making you a social outcast? How long then until you start to change your mind?

Attraction can be seen the same way:

What if the girl that was "truly RED" when you first saw her, was now in a setting / social circle / culture that admired guys like you and guys like you were seen as the "elite" and everybody now thinks that she is extremely stupid and became a "social outcast" for not seeing you as attractive.

I have seen and experienced this myself many times, the same girl could be a "truly RED" in one country / culture / nightclub and "the greenest of greens" in another setting.

Seriously, if you guys want to achieve results, stop wasting energy trying to develop some all encompassing attraction theory and work on figuring out how you can create those conditions where the REDs become GREENs. To me this question is worth the time and energy solving.

I don’t understand why everyone in this thread is turning against me and trying to make this about me and me saying that it’s not possible to get a Red and you should not try.

Again, I am not saying you cannot get a Red. You can.

End of story.

Now do you want to go for it when it’s in front of you? Please do, it’s totally fine with me.

I have seen and experienced this myself many times, the same girl could be a "truly RED" in one country / culture / nightclub and "the greenest of greens" in another setting.

YES! People have emotions and they change constantly. We are not fucking machines!

There are countless things that can change her position between the first and the second.

You want to solve the Red in the nightclub? Do it! I will applaud you if you win.

I say all of this as a guy who has witnessed this - the primary market of girls who are now Greens to me once found me most consistently as a Red.

I never wanted to be part of this thread and I don’t know why everyone keeps tagging me and then accusing me of taking a position I haven’t taken. I’m done here, you guys can debate about this. I don’t know why I keep getting singled out for a position I’m not taking but it’s ludicrous and stupid.

 

[Rain]

I have seen and experienced this myself many times, the same girl could be a "truly RED" in one country / culture / nightclub and "the greenest of greens" in another setting.

YES! People have emotions and they change constantly. We are not fucking machines!

There are countless things that can change her position between the first and the second

So when a "red" is converted, is it compliance and/or desire like teevster said in his OP, or is actual attraction generated?
Iirc Razorjack or someone else, had a woman, or still has right now, someone who was a truly red in the beginning, but now has been with for years. So no attraction generated over those years, as you can't create attraction but you can have compliance and/or desire, is that correct?

 

[Razorjack]

I don’t understand why everyone in this thread is turning against me and trying to make this about me and me saying that it’s not possible to get a Red and you should not try.

Again, I am not saying you cannot get a Red. You can.

End of story.

Now do you want to go for it when it’s in front of you? Please do, it’s totally fine with me.



YES! People have emotions and they change constantly. We are not fucking machines!

There are countless things that can change her position between the first and the second.

You want to solve the Red in the nightclub? Do it! I will applaud you if you win.

I say all of this as a guy who has witnessed this - the primary market of girls who are now Greens to me once found me most consistently as a Red.

I never wanted to be part of this thread and I don’t know why everyone keeps tagging me and then accusing me of taking a position I haven’t taken. I’m done here, you guys can debate about this. I don’t know why I keep getting singled out for a position I’m not taking but it’s ludicrous and stupid.

@Grand Pooba

Ah yes, nothing like a bit of seducers squabbling on a forum to spice up a Saturday evening during lockdown! LOL!

Easy mate, I'm not singling you out or accusing you of taking any position. It was just a reply to your post and it may not have come across clearly in my reply, but I agree with nearly everything you wrote. The only part I didn't agree with was what I quoted

There are Girls whom are truly Reds because they never have and never WILL like you

Otherwise we are in complete agreement.

My post wasn't about you at all, only an explanation of why I personally don't believe in the traffic light system much less "True Reds" and why I think discussing attraction theory in general is completely useless for improving results.

I also share your frustration about getting accused of taking a position that wasn't taken. This has happened to me several times and it's exhausting having to repeatedly clear it up.

Just made me realize that I need to cut back a bit on posting and spend some time with the family.

 

[Teevster]

Long post but I did read through it @Teevster and I think it does deserve a like

I did not get the chance to read all the responses in the thread but I have been in a situation before where I had a "type" (tanned brunette white girls) and I did well with anyone but that type. Now I am a swarthy white guy who gets told he looks a lot like the dude in the pic below:

Blondes loved me and typically where I grew up, guys who had my type of look ended up with blondes while guys who looked more Aryan/blond haired ended up hot girls with the look I was into. I think this might just be common the world over, the whole biology and mixing genes or whatever shit I would not get into. Other members who share my look have apparently brought this very thing up. You're in Europe and I am sure both you and @Razorjack who is in Scandinavia probably see instances where a Nordic guy goes to the Mediterranean and cleans up while a Mediterranean guy has a higher value up north.

I even chatted up this really hot dark haired girl with olive skin and brown eyes who flat out told me "I can't date you, you look like my brother". Maybe it was a shit test I failed miserably but who knows, needless to say, my mind was not in it. I was focused so much on getting these girls but always found that a hot blonde was naturally more into me, nicer to me, more flirty, and my type would almost push me to "prove" myself. I kind of felt like I was having to fight for a chance as opposed to just being myself, it became a dilemma for me.

That was what I found was the problem, sometimes man, the battle is inside yourself and not outside.

Maybe I was acting too try-hard with these girls, carrying emotional baggage to the approach, and probably a novel of issues that were so subconscious that I started to become my own worst enemy. Now I know you want to hear how I overcame my inner game problems and went on to becoming the king of all pickup artists, not exactly.

I found that for a while, approaching hot girls with the look I deep down loved was kind of making me uncomfortable, it was bringing out the worst in me at times and surfacing my insecurities. What I did was start to game girls I was comfortable around meaning if it was not a Caucasian brunette with tanned skin, I was approaching her with my best.

What I did was I trained myself to be happy without being so attached to any type of woman, I found fulfillment in myself first. I promised myself that I am going to have a kickass awesome 10/10 life even if I never ever fuck my type, ever. The girls who are my "market" are going to get my absolute best and for my type, out of sight was out of mind. I'd even ignore my type intentionally and just focus on women who I felt brought out the most positive energy within me. At times, I'd have the type I always wanted give me blatant IOIs which I'd ignore and not act on until they became obvious.

Somehow it all started to come together because I found fulfillment in myself outside of women, I stopped letting that kind of shit beat me down. I ended up getting attention from women who were not my market because I was around women who were my market and I was my best self.

Now I can approach my type because I've already slept with a great deal of women who fit that look over the past few years.

My big lesson here was that always go for your market and with the types of girls you are strongest with. What you will eventually find is that some girls who are not of your market will now get curious out of you having other women in your life and now try to come into your life.

France is not Scandinavia and your theories does not resonate with my experience. Neither Razorjack nor I happen to be nordic looking either (me more than Razorjack)

I have cleaned house in:
- France
- Uk
- Denmark
- Norway
- Bulgaria
- China...
and so on


Game is game period.

I have it easier in Norway than France because I am more used to the culture and have a stronger social frame, otherwise, not much difference. I love France, I love the women here, and I cannot say French women are objectively harder or easier to get than say a Dane.

I will not discuss such theories any further since they have been debunked over and over again over the years.

 

[Teevster]

I never wanted to be part of this thread and I don’t know why everyone keeps tagging me and then accusing me of taking a position I haven’t taken. I’m done here, you guys can debate about this. I don’t know why I keep getting singled out for a position I’m not taking but it’s ludicrous and stupid.

Velasco brough you in by citing one of your articles. This article states very radical positions such as "you cannot get REDS". This of coure has relevance for this thread.

You wrote a GC post (which btw was based on misinterpretation of Pablo's words) that was cited here. As the author, you will be confronted with the things you write in a GC article. And as the author of that article you will be expected to respond. If you cannot. It is as simple as that.

 

[BigPapa]

@Teevster I would say that in latin blood countries you shoot more "blind bullets " ( aka you find more time wasters ) as women in general are more socially opened compared to nordic countries , where usually they are more reserved .

From my experience in nordic countries , after the hooking point , if you do not mess up things that bad it is very likely that you will pass the finish line , while in more latin countries it is a little bit further down the road and have to manage to get more investment from the girl in order to finish the line

Even though as a rule there is no difference from a country to another one , you need to take into consideration that there are different "thermometers " on how much investment is needed in order to move things forward

 

[Skills]

The traffic light system is not useless, it is actually very good depending of your GOAL, not everybody gets off in converting reds, some guys just don't care or want to and find it a total waste of time....

As you can see some guys get a rush and excitement seeing how far they can go with the girl...

it all depends on what you want to do, to convert reds may take a bit more work and/or time in some cases, but not always....

The traffic light system was very useful about 5 years ago on club settings before online apps took over for example... it was extremely efficient at one point.... Which is when all these dudes, 60, aaron, manson started talking about it....

Also they were guys texting and totally wasting time on girls that were totally not into them and they have gotten to a point were it was almost impossible to convert....

 

[Skills]

Gaming in a foreign country has some advantages:

- you are different and locals can tell so you kind of peacock

- you become automatically a dtf dude

- your level of curiosity and excitement and newness comes out etc...


I personally do much better when i travel i would say triple the results...

 

[Grand Pooba]

Velasco brough you in by citing one of your articles. This article states very radical positions such as "you cannot get REDS". This of coure has relevance for this thread.

You wrote a GC post (which btw was based on misinterpretation of Pablo's words) that was cited here. As the author, you will be confronted with the things you write in a GC article. And as the author of that article you will be expected to respond. If you cannot. It is as simple as that.

I honestly cannot believe I have to write this and spoonfeed this to everyone. Thought people are more mature and intelligent than this and can put two pieces of a puzzle together - maybe it's just being confined at home has raised everyone's T and aggression, and such debates are the outlet.

What's actually at debate is whether or not you SHOULD go for Reds, not whether or not you CAN or CANNOT get them.

But on top of everything, the whole idea of RED is a State that a girl holds for that particular moment in time, or at that moment in time.

Right?

So you quote me -

This article states very radical positions such as "you cannot get REDS".

Can you get a Red while she's a Red?

Or, is your whole argument presumed on the idea that she STARTS as a Red, and then you continue to run game on her so that she CHANGES to a Yellow or a Green and then goes home with you?

Because if Red is indeed a state, then you cannot get Reds. At least while she's a Red.

But we are here saying that Red is not an absolute with any girl, it is in fact a state that can be changed and does change.

And, is it or is it not worth it to spend the time to change her state to one where she'll go home with you (at that point she IS a Green or a Yellow).

Is this not what everyone is saying?

As the author, you will be confronted with the things you write in a GC article. And as the author of that article you will be expected to respond. If you cannot. It is as simple as that.

Yes, and people are misinterpreting my words, my posts, and starting a fight over what's honestly a stupid topic to begin with because there are SO many variables at stake.

So let's just summarize this:

1. Compliance based Game works. It's extremely effective, it builds on leading, and it can often create results out of thin air where none existed before.

It works. This we know.

Then the question of a Red - 2. Does compliance based game work with Red states? And, 3. should you bother to even attempt game with a Red state?

We already know compliance based game works - but with a Red it's presumed on ideas of state change. A state is not static, so then the question "should you attempt it"....

All guys that have this question first need to ask themselves this:
1. What do I want with women in my life in this moment?
2. What is the best approach for the situation to get me what I want?

Your answer to these questions will determine whether or not you should attempt to "flip a Red" - why people are trying to apply an "absolute" answer to such a variable question, I cannot understand.

This is not a binary answer. It's not a "yes" or "no."


Here's some radically different situations....


You're Day gaming in New York City, approaching on the street. There are dozens of attractive women walking by every ten minutes. You find one Red girl and she blow's you off a little - she's stationary, but there's tons of other single women just as hot walking around.

You're at a club and you just really want to get laid tonight - it's been a while since you've got good momentum. There's only 6 or 7 girls here whom are 8s and above. 8's have shown some interest in you. There's also one 9 but she seems like a Red. You really want to get laid and get momentum back.

You're at a club again and you've had really good momentum for a while. You're in the mood to push your game. There's only 6 or 7 girls here whom are 8s and above. 8's have shown some interest in you. There's also one 9 but she seems like a Red. You really want to learn some new stuff tonight and try to get the best you can.

You're Day gaming in New York City, approaching in a bookstore. There are a slew of attractive women hovering around - some 8s and one 9 - maybe under a dozen options total. The 9 seems Red but you've got tons of time and she's just your type. There's also tons of other single women meandering around but this girl feels like she's special.

You're Day gaming in a mall, approaching in a bookstore. There are a slew of attractive women hovering around - some 8s and one 9 - maybe under a dozen options total - but in the mall itself there are hundreds of other girls. The 9 seems Red but you've got tons of time - and you feel super horny. You're not worried about not getting a 9 - you just feel horny and would be fine with an 8.


Also since this is such a big sticking point for everyone here, I will have my article revised. So you guys will see that change tomorrow - completely unnecessary but since we're super serious about such semantics here from an article from three years ago....unreal...

 

[Teevster]

@Teevster I would say that in latin blood countries you shoot more "blind bullets " ( aka you find more time wasters ) as women in general are more socially opened compared to nordic countries , where usually they are more reserved .

From my experience in nordic countries , after the hooking point , if you do not mess up things that bad it is very likely that you will pass the finish line , while in more latin countries it is a little bit further down the road and have to manage to get more investment from the girl in order to finish the line

Even though as a rule there is no difference from a country to another one , you need to take into consideration that there are different "thermometers " on how much investment is needed in order to move things forward

I used to think along those lines when I was a beginner - although different theories than yours . Truth it is mostly all in your head.

Here are some examples:

1. Some people always told me that girls in Scandinavia had lower ASD than other countries - i.e. were more sexually liberated. Well they are not any more closed off than other places - that's for sure. But I have met equally liberated girls in Hungary, Poland, Slovakia (my favourite "women spot" in the world) and Italians. And then I moved to France, and realized women do not have any sexual blocks at all - although there are other annoying things about French girls, such as the need to make every single thing so damn sophisticated...

2. Nordic girls are closed off - no! they are not. This is usually what Americans and other non-nordic people say because they simply are unable to calibrate to Nordic girls. It is as simple as that. They come to countries like Sweden with their "teasing" and bantering lines. It simply does not work well here, and therefore assume nordic girls are closed off. I am someone with tons of experience with nordic girls and never faced any issues.

3. Nordic girls are easier to get since they are sexually liberate: well not really. Again this is a wrong claim that circulates a lot. They are not much more liberated than many other countries (i.e. US girls are not any more closed off in my opinion). Additionally, Nordic girls are ruthless - they are selective as fuck. They will roast many guys in a minute. Which is why for example many american PUA's have weird claims about say Scandinavia (about their women being liberated) just to leave from there disappointment.

4. Latin girls are not necessarily more open minded to meet people. The bitchshield you can face from Spanish girls in a high end club in Madrid can be absolutely brutal. Same with eastern Europeans.... and same with Nordic girls.

There are differences, and differences from culture to culture. There are also individual differences within those cultures.

Bottom line, all these theories are just a waste of time. This is why you never seen skilled seducer discuss them, because we just go out there, see what happens and calibrate on the spot.

The latter is the ultimate universal key.

1. Go in there
2. Observe
3. Calibrate
4. Evaluate what you did and see how it works out (debrief the day after going out)
5. Adjust things, and change what did not work, or try something different and resume the whole process.

With experience with dealing with many different countries you will eventually get to figure out a country within days, or maybe within even a singular outing. When I go out the first night in a country I oftentimes spend the first night figuring things out, although I have managed to get lays the first nights, like the first week end in Paris where I pulled twice in a row the first week end.

In my opinion, the differences in difficulty are not really the existent. Also the differences in how women work and how game works is not that different either - although these small differences occurs and you will have to adjust to that.

It is as simple as that.

Easy in theory, but harder in practice - since in practice in requires a lot of experience dealing with different cultures and traveling a lot.

But making overall theories about how X girls are Y and so on is to me a waste of time and not a very interesting discussion.

Best,

 

[Teevster]

Also they were guys texting and totally wasting time on girls that were totally not into them and they have gotten to a point were it was almost impossible to convert....

Over text you have limited playing room though. I do not believe you can convert reds via text. Maybe it is possible, but I am surely not able, nor willing to do it. As many of you here know, I am one of the worst texters on the planet, so yeah...

One thing to mention that is undeniable is that texting is probably the scenario where you have the least room for maneuver - i.e. with only limited tools at you disposal (oftentimes "weaker" tools)

 

[Skills]

Over text you have limited playing room though. I do not believe you can convert reds via text. Maybe it is possible, but I am surely not able, nor willing to do it. As many of you here know, I am one of the worst texters on the planet, so yeah...

One thing to mention that is undeniable is that texting is probably the scenario where you have the least room for maneuver - i.e. with only limited tools at you disposal (oftentimes "weaker" tools)

I was just giving example of usage of traffic lights, but with text you can keep on her (orbit) for when and opportunity may come up (break up/ovulation etc...) and then jump in when it opens....

 

[Velasco]

although there are other annoying things about French girls, such as the need to make every single thing so damn sophisticated..

the most pretentious of them all lol. i love them for it tho

 

[Teevster]

I honestly cannot believe I have to write this and spoonfeed this to everyone. Thought people are more mature and intelligent than this and can put two pieces of a puzzle together - maybe it's just being confined at home has raised everyone's T and aggression, and such debates are the outlet.

What's actually at debate is whether or not you SHOULD go for Reds, not whether or not you CAN or CANNOT get them.

Is it though? I though the debate (based on the OP) was about whether you can or cannot get them. Maybe the discussion have changed (I have, as you may have imagined, not been able to keep track of everything in this thread).

But your traffic light post was brought up by Velasco who was, if I am not mistaken, a proponent of the idea that you cannot really turn over reds.

I also base my position on my interpretation of your article:

Reds don’t like you – and won’t like you, no matter what you do – so just delete them from your life forever. Some men get “one-itis” for that “one special girl” and chase them forever in hope, long after she’s already lost interest and deleted the man from her own life

Seems not very congruent with the rest of your posts.

But on top of everything, the whole idea of RED is a State that a girl holds for that particular moment in time, or at that moment in time.

Right?

Not always. Sometimes it is because of a bad mood and so on... then YES.

But she does have a personality, a persona that is more or less fixed and static that is not prone to change. That persona has a set of preferences, and have over time developed a type of men she is into. Some of it maybe also be linked to biological preferences (although it is possible, but not easy to rewire, to some extent that is, your attraction triggers).

So no, everything is not fluid. In some areas it is, but not in this one.

Can you get a Red while she's a Red?

And then based on what I mentioned above.... the answer is YES.

Because if "redness" is related to her attraction level - a level of it being low or non-existent, then the main message of my original post was that "attraction" is not the end of it. Because you can pull those non-attracted girls through compliance.

(I did also mention that you could affect her filters and basically make her more "green" or "yellow" before you get in - but as I mentioned clearly, I was unsure if this was simply caused by an increase in compliance or if actual attraction was generated)

Or, is your whole argument presumed on the idea that she STARTS as a Red, and then you continue to run game on her so that she CHANGES to a Yellow or a Green and then goes home with you?

I must admit that things get a bit semantically unclear here.

If the traffic light system is related to her attraction level (and considering that one cannot up her attraction) then NO. The girl does not get greener since attraction is not raised, only her compliance.

If on the other hand, you see the traffic light system as her level of initial compliance (irrelevant of her attraction level), then yes I am following you on your line of though.

I usually do not favor semantic discussions, but this one I believe is of major importance.

Is that traffic light system defining her level of attraction or her level of compliance (such as desire)? In your definition you use the word "liking" ("she likes your/she does not like you") - in which case I am assuming your version of the traffic light system is attraction based - but I may be wrong and I will allow you to clarify.

But if it based on attraction, then no you cannot turn a red to green, but you can still bang a red by upping her compliance.

On the other hand if the traffic light system is based on compliance then you can turn a red into a yellow or green.

At the end of the day, from a practical point of view, it does not change much because the bottom line remains the same: You can bang reds

I see not purpose in over debating whether one sees the traffic light system as an attraction indicator or compliance indicator. But it may be key to announce which one one is referring to during the debate.

Because if Red is indeed a state, then you cannot get Reds. At least while she's a Red.

In which case it is purely compliance based?

But we are here saying that Red is not an absolute with any girl, it is in fact a state that can be changed and does change.

If it is compliance based, then yes. Although I am still debating and reflecting on whether attraction can be generated over time. I am closing into the belief that it is possible, but this can only happen:
- Post sex
- Within a longer period of seeing each other (fuck buddy, relationship etc)
- Requires you to bang her a lot and bang her well, and let the oxytocin release itself.
- Requires you connect with her on a deeper level over time

But this is not really what we discussing here, as we are mostly discussing the pre-sex phase - the pick up phase all the way to the seduction/pull phase.

I felt the need to mention this in case anybody in the future confront me with "you claimed attraction could not be created).

Again, I am unsure at this point whether one can create it - although I tend to see a tendency that it is possible.

And, is it or is it not worth it to spend the time to change her state to one where she'll go home with you (at that point she IS a Green or a Yellow).

Is this not what everyone is saying?

I hope I clarified a few things, and I will let you judge. It feels to me your mixing up attraction and compliance. I do not see this as a big issue from a practical point of view since it has limited impact on your results in field, but when it comes to explain things on a forum, especially in such a chaotic debate that is, I must admit quite theoretical, it becomes an issue.

Yes, and people are misinterpreting my words, my posts, and starting a fight over what's honestly a stupid topic to begin with because there are SO many variables at stake.

Convincing people and making a case for how and why you can bang reds is not a stupid topic in my book.

So let's just summarize this:

1. Compliance based Game works. It's extremely effective, it builds on leading, and it can often create results out of thin air where none existed before.

Agreed.

Then the question of a Red - 2. Does compliance based game work with Red states?

You know my answer to this.

And, 3. should you bother to even attempt game with a Red state?

It is not a question that I have taken the time to discuss much here, so I won't discuss it not. But I think I touched upon it in my OP and I do not feel anyone has contributed any additional indicators on whether one should or should not go for reds (I listed skills level, momentum, and contextual settings in my OP if I am not wrong)

We already know compliance based game works - but with a Red it's presumed on ideas of state change. A state is not static, so then the question "should you attempt it"....

You know where I stand on this, but I believe that you must clarify whether your traffic light system (the one you share) is based on compliance or attraction, and if based on attraction, you must explain if and how attraction can be increased (I believe that you can't do that, especially not at the early stages).

All guys that have this question first need to ask themselves this:
1. What do I want with women in my life in this moment?
2. What is the best approach for the situation to get me what I want?

Sure, these are normative questions that are individual. They are good questions, but not practical questions one should ask themselves. But fair enough.


Best,