@Will_V -
Thank you again for your time and help. I want you to know something. I consider you my role model when it comes to inner game/attaining mastery over one's thoughts. I can tell in how you write, and in the stories you've told about your challenges that you've overcome, that you have a rock solid head on your shoulders. Your mind is calm, cool, collected, strong, and forged through hardship. I haven't met anyone in person with such mastery of their thoughts. I enjoy every single post you make on this board, and I hope to one day overcome my issues and have a mind like yours.
I originally read your reply early this morning, and during the day I had a thought about your 'working state' concept. Could this possibly be described as simply not overthinking what you're trying to cognitively solve, and also not overworking?
The idea that crossed my mind today is that I think I've overdone it lately. One of my faults here is lack of patience, so for the last month or so, I've tried dedicating as much free mental time as possible to working on my negative thoughts. This has an obvious drawback: If you spend a lot of time each day on your negative thoughts, you're going to be spending a lot of time each day
thinking about your negative thoughts. You'll be spending a lot of time in negativity. This isn't good. You get help by adding positive thoughts.
There's also just not that much to think about:
You identified the negative belief? Check.
You identified the rational thoughts and positive beliefs to replace it? Check.
Then that's it. There's no more thinking to be done. No more dwelling or ruminating. No more consciously exploring. Just stop thinking and start 'taking the medicine' that you identified.
Not sure if this is exactly what you're describing with your 'working state,' but I think it's close. You're able to make progress when your mind is at peace. Not when it's being dragged down in negative emotions.
These girls don't know you. They MUST be reacting to something they see, not some understanding of who you are. Accept this as a positive reduction of a logical problem. Then say "I must find out what they SEE when they look at me". Not what they believe about you, but what they actually see, on your face, in your movements and vibe. The problem MUST be something visible, which means that it's something you could see as well if you wanted to.
Agreed completely and I believe we've discussed something like this before. I've tried to find this out my entire journey, and I have to be careful because this is a very easy rabbit hole to fall in and start dwelling on appearance and believing I'm 'not good enough.' Here is all I have at the moment:
- My problem is not my wardrobe/hair/visible hygiene. I'm never the most fashionable guy, but I follow all the best practices, and when I've asked multiple people (even coaches) for feedback, nobody has ever said that any of these are an issue.
- Therefore, as best as I can tell, that leaves only two remaining things: Girls see my short height, and/or girls see bad body language/anxiety/tension.
Obviously there's not much that can be done about height, so I've been working on these possible visible anxiety cues for as long as we've been discussing it. So, I don't know what else to do here other than keep working on it.
Then say "I know other guys with all my characteristics who do well with girls" because it's true, right? This prepares you to look at the truth of the problem because you KNOW there's a solution that you could reach too, if only you accepted the truth of how things are.
Unfortunately not. I have yet to meet a guy like me (mainly, a guy as short as me) that does well with women. Haven't seen it with my own two eyes and I'm always looking because I would LOVE to be friends with that guy and have a mentor like that.
But to your point, I do believe some solution exists, and the best I can think of based on all my knowledge is that my only pathway is, what feels like to me, is spam approach. The logic being, hot girls aren't going to give an IOI so all you can do is assume girls are interested but are afraid to show it, approach every hot, single-looking girl you see since you have no idea if they're into you or not, then just hopefully you find one that hooks after the approach.
Do I feel happy when approaching girls? Why not, if they are something I really want? I know I can enjoy myself with them, what has hijacked my mind? If I imagine having a great time with a girl, why is this not how I feel when going up to her?
No, at the moment approaching girls doesn't make me feel happy. It feels like work. Like a box I have to check to have a prayer to make progress in that department. Maybe I can't tell what negative emotion I'm actually feeling. It's a down, sinking feeling. My best guess is it's a belief that the interaction for certain won't go anywhere, even if I get her number, even if I get a date, even if I pull her. Throughout my journey, it's been so incredibly rare to find a legit hook - a girl that doesn't want me to leave. I've also explored if it could be a belief that I'm not good enough for hot girls, or not capable of being the man they want, or not deserving of having a hot girl. Again, can't tell exactly what the emotion is.
Why do I react negatively? Is it when I see a girl or when I think of approaching? Can I walk past her and make eye contact without feeling bad? Can I enjoy being near her without feeling anxious? Can I just go and talk to her without trying to pick her up without feeling bad? What point triggers the reaction, and how close can I get without triggering it? If I can get close to the trigger without triggering it, maybe I can stop and try to perceive exactly how the trigger works, and different ways of dealing with it.
It's when I notice she's hot/cute and the kind of girl I want to meet. I kind of have to force myself to make eye contact, and remind myself to smile (overcoming habits here of not doing these). Interestingly, I still feel weird just trying to talk to her even not trying to pick her up or say anything flirty. It's that face they make that's just such a dagger. That disturbed/judgy face that feels like it's saying 'you? seriously? ew. no.' And it's not just the face it's the body language. It just screams that they don't want to talk to me and they're just doing it to be nice. The body language that says they're uncomfortable the more I hang around and engage in conversation. Seeing them turn partially away, or just never fully turn to and engage me. Then I watch when an 'attractive' guy walks up. The girls' faces light up. Huge smiles. Body language directly at the guy. I've seen this when me and a buddy are talking to a girl. The girl seems to always LOCK eyes with my buddy, and she usually won't look at me again unless I say something.
Interesting how deep that went
So yeah the rest of your questions here are what I've been doing when going out the past couple weeks. I've been trying to pay attention and notice when that sinking feeling emerges. It's been going well. The cognitive work I've done has helped me tell when it kicks in. I've noticed it of course when girls blatantly give a harsh rejection, but now I've been able to notice its presence even in far subtler situations.
Anyway, I don't know if you were asking for answers to these questions or more so being rhetorical. Either way, I figured I'd reply to hopefully just open up and see what happens.
That dagger response was sure interesting. Definitely goes back to childhood of seeming to never be a part of the cool kids and never learning how to properly interpret the behavior from others I was receiving. Not sure if this adds much, as either way I still plan to work on all these identified negative, irrational beliefs and replacing them with positive, rational ones.
Thanks again Will. You're the man.
