ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

[Rain]

day game approaches (particularly direct)

I'm not sure direct is the best way. I know Hector talks about it alot, but Chase wrote an article last few months about different methods or something, and how Hector did tonnes of approaches, and that's why it worked for him. The best approach "ratio" I think is actually indirect or a hybrid of indirect direct. I can find the article if you want and link it.

- No girl contributes any effort to get a date scheduled. Always excuses
- Their texts are always short and uninterested
- They never initiate or reciprocate touch
- They just never act like I'm a catch

Was this from online as well? I have not read your whole thread. Have you had any woman at all show any touch/kino back or act like you're a catch..... even women who aren't "10s" or less desireable?

No wonder I've made probably 2000+ approaches at this point with zero lays.

That's not a good ratio. Do you know how many you've met face to face from online?

1. I'm ashamed by a lack of sexual/dating/relationship experience at my age,

How old? If want to remain anonymous can just say mid 40s or etc

Well done for going out again recently. Are you definitely sure you're giving off a desperation vibe, as opposed to a more 'lacking conversation flow/skill' vibe? Like sheldon cooper? Maybe a friend could try and use a video from a distance to show you doing an approach?

 

[ElderPrice]

Dude... it's not about what you'd rather do, it's about what you need to do. You could have a great interaction with a girl and bomb it over text, as I just did last week (proven by the fact that she reached out to me after two days asking when I was free for a drink and I still managed to mess it up).

It's not even about perfecting it, it's about getting it to a good enough level that you're not losing girls because of it. There are multiple stages in the process and you could fuck up at any point - don't just focus on the approach and initial interaction, you need to be focusing on the process as a whole.

But even then, that's not even my main point. I didn't say you should just post your text convos, I also said to post a detailed FR of the date.

There are so many places it could have gone wrong. It could have been the date itself, it could have been the follow up texting. Same with Whole Foods girl. It could have been the interaction itself, it could have been the follow up texting.

Without detailed breakdowns people won't be able to help you pinpoint where it went wrong! There might be something glaringly obvious that you're doing wrong that you don't realize, that you'll continue to do if you don't post detailed breakdowns. At this point given the number of approaches you've made I'd definitely say sitting down to write these out in detail will be one of the better uses of your time.

My bad and my apologies, I misread your post. I have no problem posting more detailed reports in the future.

I don't know or recall much else I can say about the excuses girl interaction. It was maybe 5 minutes long. I know for sure there wasn't any deep connections or qualifying. Just a direct open, learning as much about her as I can in the short time, she had to go, she agreed to a date, exchanged numbers, parted ways.

I have been thinking about recording my next date to listen to afterwards to see how it sounds from a third party perspective. So perhaps that'll be the next super-detailed thing I post.

Sorry again for misreading your post. I should have read it slower.

 

[ElderPrice]

I'm not sure direct is the best way. I know Hector talks about it alot, but Chase wrote an article last few months about different methods or something, and how Hector did tonnes of approaches, and that's why it worked for him. The best approach "ratio" I think is actually indirect or a hybrid of indirect direct. I can find the article if you want and link it.

Was this from online as well? I have not read your whole thread. Have you had any woman at all show any touch/kino back or act like you're a catch..... even women who aren't "10s" or less desireable?


That's not a good ratio. Do you know how many you've met face to face from online?

How old? If want to remain anonymous can just say mid 40s or etc

Well done for going out again recently. Are you definitely sure you're giving off a desperation vibe, as opposed to a more 'lacking conversation flow/skill' vibe? Like sheldon cooper? Maybe a friend could try and use a video from a distance to show you doing an approach?

First point - I've tried indirect too. Tony got me to give direct daygame a shot.

Second point - Correct, the source hasn't mattered. There may be a handful of girls who've acted that way, but 99.9999% have not. The first half at least of my journal is just documenting how date after date after date goes the same, and women are just always so cold and reserved with me, despite efforts to warm them up.

Third point - No idea

Fourth point - It's in the thread title

Fifth point - No, I'm not definitely sure. Most of this thread is just trying to guess what's wrong. I like your idea at the end... at least I'm going to reach out to some friends I've seen recently and get their feedback. I don't think conversational flow/skills is the hang up because a lot of friends have commented that they think I'm a great conversationalist.

Thank you for the reply!

 

[ElderPrice]

1/29

This funk has fascinated me. On one hand, it's my most significant emotional crash in a very long time... on the other hand, it's different than previous ones. It's not as bad. I can easily laugh and take pleasure in non-girl-related activities. I take it as further evidence that the more ups and downs you go through in the life roller coaster, the less rough the downs become.

During this time, I think I've made decent progress looking inward. I generally hate getting inside my head like this because the only thing I do is swing back and forth between "Oh come on, there's nothing wrong with you. You just need more approaches." and "You definitely have to be doing something very wrong."

But I think I made some decent observations regardless of which side I'm on at the moment:

1. Perhaps it's time to improve my fashion, as I definitely have room to grow there. Until now, I would summarize my fashion as just checking off the basics that every men's fashion article suggestions: wear clothes that fit, wear good colors, darker jeans, canvas shoes/work boots instead of tennis shoes, etc. Nobody's ever said anything bad about my fashion or style. Perhaps it's time to shoot for better than just the minimum.

2. I can probably approach better or get in more approaches than I'm aware of. Recently I was fortunate to bump into a group of guys sarging at the mall. Turns out they were doing a bootcamp with a different company. After watching only 1 or 2 approaches, I could tell they had a level of aggression I hadn't really conceived of before. Most of their mall approaches were the street stop, run-up-from-behind variety. Most of mine are more waiting for a more natural opening opportunity. Also they were telling me that the night before they were having success at a bar/club despite the covid restrictions. I've never been able to visualize how to make it work at a covid-era bar or club when every group has to be sitting at their own table. Apparently there's a way to do it (wish I could have seen it). Anyway, it looks like my approaches have room to be better or more aggressively executed.

3. I stumbled on an old Chase article called 10 ways to have a girl take you seriously. The intro to the article really resonated with me. The recommendations however, in my case, not so much. Most of the recommendations are verbal. As in, what to say after you've already started talking to the girl. That doesn't seem to be me. If women aren't taking me seriously, I'm getting the vibe that it's right at the start. It's visual. It's before I even say a word to them, which ties along with #1 above. Anyway, my point here being, I'm starting to think there might be something here to women just not taking me seriously. It explains why they're friendly, they enjoy the conversation, they give their phone number, they seemingly agree to a date, but then always text short, cold, and never follow through to meet up... or if on a date, never touch, follow, show IOIs. They aren't sexually attracted. Their "ears don't perk up" when I walk by. I was thinking about posting a thread in General asking for advice on how to get girls to take you seriously visually, but I've balked so far because I assume the answers will just be fashion/fundamentals.

I also was able to make some approaches this week which led to a few pleasant conversations, so I'm definitely in the trajectory of coming out of this emotional funk. I'm also probably leaving for the night shortly, so I hope I can make a ton of approaches this weekend both at night and during the day. Hope to report back soon!

 

[Will_V]

Hey ElderPrice, was reading some of your journal and I was wondering: do you qualify girls before you ask for the number?

Did she ever jump through a hoop to get the possibility of going on a date with you - even if that wasn't her specific goal when she jumped through it? Did you ever apply pressure and release it - make her feel anxious to find the right answer, and then give her the pleasure of seeing you pleased with what she said?

You cannot gain investment from a woman without some kind of qualification. In fact, one of the best lessons I ever got from a PUA guru was that the #1 reason why girls don't text back at all after the interaction is because you didn't qualify her. Qualification is how you express your standards and your dominance in the interaction, and it is how you gain her respect, and consequently her investment. It's how you end up with her thinking afterward "did I say the right thing?" vs "Hm wonder what that random guy wanted from me?"

Do you ever ask a woman things like:

"What do you do for fun? And I don't mean netflix and texting with the girls."
"Do you know how to cook?" <Maybe a bit strong, but better than nothing>
<When she says she studies business/accounting/law etc> "Really, is that fun?" with a smiling but dubious expression.
<If she's studying> "Are you a good student?"
"Are you creative? Do you draw/paint/write or anything like that?"
"When was the last time you went on a big adventure?"
"Do you ever do things outside your comfort zone, just for fun?"
<If she recently arrived in the country> "Do you like it here?" <She responds "yeah!"> "Really, why?" <she says something generic> "Yeah it's not bad here, some parts are a bit boring like W and X but I like Y and Z" <she agrees enthusiastically, leaning into your frame>

In fact, whenever she says anything that makes you feel like saying "Really? Cool!" find a way to pressure her on it, as if you think she is just trying to impress you and you think she's cute but you're not that easy.

Of course, you MUST release pressure by giving her the qualification at the end, or she will simply get anxious or feel weird.

One thing I like to do is transition from a general question to a more personal qualification, which is always better. So if I ask her something like "Do you like the country so far?" and she says "yeah!" and you say "Really, why?" and she says "I like the beach! It's so nice here" I will say something like "Ah, are you an outdoorsy girl?" and start pressuring her about being adventurous and what adventures she's been on.

I also like to indirectly qualify her by stating something strongly and looking at her dubiously for her reaction. For example, if we're talking about food, I'll say something like "I'm a meat guy, nothing better than a big thick fried steak, red in the middle, with a glass of wine. Can't stand that tofu nonsense.." grimace and look at her. I'm perfectly willing to lose a girl over this point btw, but it's never happened.

The wonderful thing about qualifying is that it turns the tables, it's the frame not of you chasing her but her chasing you, and it also turns women on a bit to be 'interviewed' for a womanly role - as long as it's not too serious of course, and she's enjoying it.

This also gives you the opportunity to use that investment as a hook in the text - let's say your qualified her about being adventurous, you can start the icebreaker with something like "Hey little miss adventurous!..." and you've already established the interaction in a dominant way that she's likely to respond to.

Hope this is useful, I didn't read all your journals but I didn't come across much evidence that you were doing this. And when you say things like you still hit that if she's a communist, I'm sure it comes across to her as well.

I know it's hard to have standards when you haven't had much success, but you don't have a choice. Reinforce it in your mind. Build a life apart from women that excites you, that gives you adventure and meaning and strength and conviction, so you can look a woman in the eye and honestly think to yourself "is this woman really good enough for me?"

TLDR: stop waiting for her to 'help' you set up the date, gain her investment and respect by qualifying her and getting her to follow your lead.

 

[ElderPrice]

Hey @Will_V - Lately, yes, I've been working to make sure I qualify and emotionally connect better. I definitely wasn't good with it for most of the journey. But even still, over the years I've used the bored look before, the skeptical look, and I've voiced pleasure/praise when she says something I legitimately like about her, and I voice displeasure when she says something I don't like.

But it's absolutely something I can do better at, and need to do better at.

I have a question - when you say "stop waiting for her to 'help' you set up the date...," do you have an example of what this looks like in a text exchange?

 

[Will_V]

You seem to have missed my point. The texting is not the problem but the symptom. The problem is that by not getting her to qualify herself while talking, you have not got her invested. And since she is not invested, the whole thing means nothing to her. Which means that when you ask for the date she feels no emotions, and cannot bring herself to say yes.

I would suggest that next time you go out, give yourself this fantasy: you're going out to find a girlfriend and you want to see if she ticks the boxes.

Ask her if she can cook your favorite foods, find out if she has the personality you want, enjoys some similar pastimes, is she conscientious and diligent and kind, whatever you honestly want in a gf .. smile and have fun, but really try to do it as if it were your goal to screen her in or out.

If you do this playfully, you may well get rejected but you will feel a distinct change in the dynamics and realize it's easier to put her on the spot than you think.

She might even get competitive and start asking about you, which is never a bad thing.

As I believe Chases articles say, when you text she is imagining you during the conversation you had. If texting feels dead from the get go, it's because the first interaction failed to make her feel invested.

Hey @Will_V - Lately, yes, I've been working to make sure I qualify and emotionally connect better. I definitely wasn't good with it for most of the journey. But even still, over the years I've used the bored look before, the skeptical look, and I've voiced pleasure/praise when she says something I legitimately like about her, and I voice displeasure when she says something I don't like.

But it's absolutely something I can do better at, and need to do better at.

I have a question - when you say "stop waiting for her to 'help' you set up the date...," do you have an example of what this looks like in a text exchange?

 

[ElderPrice]

You seem to have missed my point. The texting is not the problem but the symptom. The problem is that by not getting her to qualify herself while talking, you have not got her invested. And since she is not invested, the whole thing means nothing to her. Which means that when you ask for the date she feels no emotions, and cannot bring herself to say yes.

I would suggest that next time you go out, give yourself this fantasy: you're going out to find a girlfriend and you want to see if she ticks the boxes.

Ask her if she can cook your favorite foods, find out if she has the personality you want, enjoys some similar pastimes, is she conscientious and diligent and kind, whatever you honestly want in a gf .. smile and have fun, but really try to do it as if it were your goal to screen her in or out.

If you do this playfully, you may well get rejected but you will feel a distinct change in the dynamics and realize it's easier to put her on the spot than you think.

She might even get competitive and start asking about you, which is never a bad thing.

As I believe Chases articles say, when you text she is imagining you during the conversation you had. If texting feels dead from the get go, it's because the first interaction failed to make her feel invested.

No, I got you. We're just talking past each other. My question about texting was minor.. I wasn't shifting to or lasering in on that one single part. I agree with everything you said and have been paying extra attention to it over the last month or so, because you're right, for most of the journal, there's been way too little qualifying.

I still want to work on my fashion/visual first impression because I still feel like very few girls even want to jump through any hoops that I present to them. So I'll work on both. But yes, from now on, for any extended conversation, I'm going to try my hardest to get girls to qualify. Your point is absolutely right.

 

[ElderPrice]

2/9

At the mall this weekend, I tried 'come up from behind, get a little in front of her, turn and open' approaches for the first time. The first one involved a few strides of running which felt super weird to do so AA was quite high!

But after one or two, it felt much better, and oddly enough it felt like a normal thing to do. As in, if you're a cool, confident man and you see a beautiful woman walk passed you, why would you not catch up to her and say hi?

Got a number from the hottest girl I approached. She seemed super impressed and she even offered her number without me asking.

After seeing this kind of approaching in person for the first time a couple weeks ago, I've been excited to try it. Now that I have this reference point, I'm going to try incorporating it into my coffee shop approaches. To this point, I'd kind of sit wherever, scope the place out, then walk up to the most appealing 1 or 2 girls sitting down. Hasn't worked well and you miss out on all the girls coming in, grabbing a coffee, and bouncing.

What I want to try now is sitting by the door, in a way where ideally she sees me sitting and working as she comes in, I only notice her with my peripheral vision, then when she's walking out the door, I take a better look, and if I like what I see, hustle out the door and stop her.

Also, I've been thinking a lot about how my approaches have been going from the girl's perspective. Chase's recent article is very timely. In my extended conversations with girls, I haven't been communicating enough to make her comfortable with the idea of sleeping with me. I haven't been assuming that there's a person on the inside just dying to have sex. I haven't been assuming the opposite - just haven't done a good job communicating what needs to be communicated to make her feel comfortable to let her sexual desires come out without fear of judgement.

So the next extended conversation opportunities I get, I want to make sure I mention:
- How I really don't like the double standard that men can express their sexuality, but women have to keep it hidden.
- How I don't judge anyone for their sexual history

This is in addition to working on building connections and qualifying her, as mentioned in previous posts.

 

[ElderPrice]

2/9 Supplemental

Hmmm perhaps I was a little too overzealous with the coffee shop idea?

Today I tried the game plan above. Ended up going out the door, stopping, and opening two girls. The first one, who was with a friend, was flattered but not interested. It had a pleasant 'Nice to meet you Elder. Maybe we'll bump into each other here again' ending. The second girl used the boyfriend line, wasn't interested, and that conversation wasn't more than a minute long.

What I didn't give a second thought to were a couple high school girls sitting at a table near the entrance who would therefore see and hear the approaches. I've been trying to do better on something @Tony D talks about a lot - the idea of not having fear if others hear you approaching women. So I just went and approached without worrying who would be watching.

Well, after coming back toward the coffee shop after talking to the second girl, I noticed they had a pretty disturbed/creeped out look on their faces. I ask "Oh I'm sorry - was she your friend?" One girl said "No, it's just really weird how you keep coming out to hit on underage girls." I tried to diffuse: "I've only talked to two girls... The first said she was in university and the second conversation didn't get there. I was going to ask how old she was. But in any case, thank you for the feedback. I didn't intend to be weird or anything. Again, I appreciate the feedback." Then I went back inside.

I stopped approaching because they looked so concerned that if I did one more they probably would have ran inside and reported me to the staff. Maybe they did anyway when one of them came back in to get another drink. Who knows.

So I'm trying to figure out the takeaway here. Indirect only in a coffee shop? Open only when a girl is sitting at a table right next to you? Direct (hey I thought you looked cute and wanted to meet you) is fine, but try to not let others see you make multiple approaches/opens? Or no, what you did is perfectly fine, don't worry about this fluke occurrence? Or find a better coffee shop?

 

[Will_V]

Dude, this is severe lack of calibration on your part.

Think about it for a second. What kind of 'normal' guy sits in a coffee shop and keeps running outside and running back in? The door of a coffee shop is a transitional space where people direct their attention whenever something happens. If you're sitting at a coffee shop, for any reason, chances are you're paying attention anytime someone comes in or leaves.

By default, you are grabbing the attention of the staff and customers every time you go in and out, and compounding it with the highly unusual behaviour of doing it multiple times, probably in an elevated emotional state.

Not only this, but in a distinct social environment, especially one where people go to sit down and relax and somewhat let their guard down, any weird behaviour is going to trigger their defensive instincts. In contrast to a public street, a coffee shop environment has rules and expectations and a clear authority (the staff) who can be quickly alerted. It requires a much friendlier, more sociable and under the radar vibe.

My advice would be this: if you're in the shop and you see a cute girl inside, talk to her in a very friendly and indirect way, the way a man would if he was going about his day and happened to bump into her. For any kind of mass approaching, stick to streets, parks, maybe malls and public areas where you have more freedom to bust social conventions without making people defensive.

 

[Tony D]

If you're new to cold approach, yes, don't care what people think if they see you. But also don't practice in places where you want to go back. The staff might just ban you if they see you practicing your pua skills on their patrons. Lots of guys get banned from book stores, malls, etc. I suggest practicing direct where you don't care if you're not allowed back. At least until you're more experienced. Also, learn indirect game and that won't happen so much. I hardly every go direct on anyone except a solo girl walking down the street. All cafe stuff is "What are you reading/studying? Oh is that a latte? I'm an Americano black kinda guy..."

 

[Skjöldr]

If you're new to cold approach, yes, don't care what people think if they see you. But also don't practice in places where you want to go back. The staff might just ban you if they see you practicing your pua skills on their patrons. Lots of guys get banned from book stores, malls, etc. I suggest practicing direct where you don't care if you're not allowed back. At least until you're more experienced. Also, learn indirect game and that won't happen so much. I hardly every go direct on anyone except a solo girl walking down the street. All cafe stuff is "What are you reading/studying? Oh is that a latte? I'm an Americano black kinda guy..."

Same. Direct for walking/running girls, indirect for slow/stationary girls

 

[ElderPrice]

Well, I feel like an idiot. Thanks for the replies, guys. Follow up question:

@Tony D you wrote "But also don't practice in places where you want to go back." In that case, what's your recommendation as long as all these covid restrictions are in place? I go to a handful of places (2-3 coffee shops, 2-3 malls) solely because those are by far the best places in town to meet young, attractive women since bars and clubs are basically closed.

So it seems like on one hand, you have to go there if you want to meet young, attractive girls and hopefully get results. But on the other hand, you have to be careful, low key, and indirect, or else you might get banned. So would you say it's just a case where you just have to be careful as you go - meaning, get some opens in but try your best to not overdo it and attract attention from staff/security?

 

[Tony D]

Well, I feel like an idiot. Thanks for the replies, guys. Follow up question:

@Tony D you wrote "But also don't practice in places where you want to go back." In that case, what's your recommendation as long as all these covid restrictions are in place? I go to a handful of places (2-3 coffee shops, 2-3 malls) solely because those are by far the best places in town to meet young, attractive women since bars and clubs are basically closed.

So it seems like on one hand, you have to go there if you want to meet young, attractive girls and hopefully get results. But on the other hand, you have to be careful, low key, and indirect, or else you might get banned. So would you say it's just a case where you just have to be careful as you go - meaning, get some opens in but try your best to not overdo it and attract attention from staff/security?

I'd have to see your approaches to know where you're at. Personally I can approach girls anywhere without getting noticed or in trouble, because I'm not picking up girls... I'm just talking to someone, like a normal person. Whether that's in a club, a book store, a cafe. Because of my body language and vocal tonality, nobody would even know. I'm not doing Yad stops and standing in front of her with my legs spread. Anyone looking or listening would only hear a guy making small talk with a stranger. Even better they'd think we're already friends.

But guys who are less experienced? Where should they go during Covid? I don't know. I'm in Mexico. Fuck Covid.

I'm not sure where you're at experience wise Elder. I'd suggest working on your indirect openers if you only have a handful of places to go.

 

[Rain]

One way you might do it more low key would be places like target, kmart, daiso even... or any other store that has aisles, because sometimes they have big aisles meaning less people would see you talking to a stranger.

 

[Beam]

My bad and my apologies, I misread your post. I have no problem posting more detailed reports in the future.

I don't know or recall much else I can say about the excuses girl interaction. It was maybe 5 minutes long. I know for sure there wasn't any deep connections or qualifying. Just a direct open, learning as much about her as I can in the short time, she had to go, she agreed to a date, exchanged numbers, parted ways.

I have been thinking about recording my next date to listen to afterwards to see how it sounds from a third party perspective. So perhaps that'll be the next super-detailed thing I post.

Sorry again for misreading your post. I should have read it slower.

This was a month ago, but still, the date with the cutie. Where did you take her? Did you venue change? What was the conversation like? Did you touch her? Remember as many details as you can and write them here, this is a big learning experience and you've got to take more advantage of it by writing everything that happened here. It could really help with the next date.

Also, @Tony D does practice dates where you talk to a girl over Skype and he listens in and gives you feedback after it. I did one and plan to do more , I think it would be really useful for you. It's around $100 USD for one I think.

 

[ElderPrice]

2/22

I'm pausing approaching for a while. There may still be some incidental opportunities here and there, but as far as going out to specifically approach and meet women, I'm done for now.

I've got enough total approaches in over the course of my entire journey - maybe 2,000 total at this point? - covering night game, social circle, and now day game (and maybe online dating, don't remember) that I feel comfortable concluding that I have enough data points to see a pattern: No matter the situation, women are not truly excited to meet me from the get go. Hence all the issues I consistently see, leading to no lays.

This needs fixing. So now I'm going to try as best as I can to find and fix the inner issue(s) causing this. I started seeing a local coach/counselor at the very least to finally get an in-person assessment of my appearance, style, vibe, mannerisms, etc.

After one meeting, he said he definitely doesn't see an issue at all with my appearance with regards to physique, clothing, and grooming.

He did however say that after our initial conversation, it doesn't seem like I'm quite sure of myself or who I am. He said he can't necessarily say that I carry myself with confidence.

A friend in a night time environment also recently commented that when I walk around an establishment, it doesn't look like a confident walk. He suggested to walk with more purpose.

So this is where I'm going to focus my attention and we'll see what comes of it. I really have no idea how to go about this. There's plenty of 30,000 foot concepts out there on inner issues/inner game that make sense, but I'm not finding specific exercises or techniques on how to actually go about addressing them.

I'll post updates as I make progress. Cheers.

 

[ElderPrice]

This was a month ago, but still, the date with the cutie. Where did you take her? Did you venue change? What was the conversation like? Did you touch her? Remember as many details as you can and write them here, this is a big learning experience and you've got to take more advantage of it by writing everything that happened here. It could really help with the next date.

Also, @Tony D does practice dates where you talk to a girl over Skype and he listens in and gives you feedback after it. I did one and plan to do more , I think it would be really useful for you. It's around $100 USD for one I think.

We went to a nearby coffee shop that's open late. I had to persist to get her to agree. If I recall correctly, she said she would be super busy the rest of the week, but we were texting at like 9pm I think on the weekend and she said she's leaving dinner with a friend and wanted to go home and relax. I convinced her that we were both free at that time, so let's meet for a coffee because why not, and it can be quick. She agreed, so she left the dinner with a friend when it was over and went straight to the coffee shop.

No venue change. Nothing else nearby, plus covid, plus it was a cold night outside. I don't remember too much about the conversation, but it was a lot of getting to know each other, with the idea of trying to let her to most of the talking. Deep dove her. I think I qualified her on all the traits about her that I liked. There was touching when she showed me some videos on her phone, plus I think she let me touch her leggings when she was bragging about the material (no touching reciprocation from her).

Ehh might as well go all the way and try recording the date. I'll never remember all pieces of the conversation.

Hmmm that sounds like an interesting idea. Maybe I'll give that a try in the near future.

 

[Beam]

We went to a nearby coffee shop that's open late. I had to persist to get her to agree. If I recall correctly, she said she would be super busy the rest of the week, but we were texting at like 9pm I think on the weekend and she said she's leaving dinner with a friend and wanted to go home and relax. I convinced her that we were both free at that time, so let's meet for a coffee because why not, and it can be quick. She agreed, so she left the dinner with a friend when it was over and went straight to the coffee shop.

No venue change. Nothing else nearby, plus covid, plus it was a cold night outside. I don't remember too much about the conversation, but it was a lot of getting to know each other, with the idea of trying to let her to most of the talking. Deep dove her. I think I qualified her on all the traits about her that I liked. There was touching when she showed me some videos on her phone, plus I think she let me touch her leggings when she was bragging about the material (no touching reciprocation from her).

Ehh might as well go all the way and try recording the date. I'll never remember all pieces of the conversation.

Hmmm that sounds like an interesting idea. Maybe I'll give that a try in the near future.

Nearby to what - where she was having dinner or where you live? If it's near where you live does that mean you don't have any chill bars nearby? Or they're closed because of COVID? Having a coffee at 9pm is not ideal, I would have gone for a drink if possible but if that was your only option I guess you had to take it.

What was the vibe like? Were there any high points where she was looking at you excitedly, almost expectantly?

I'd definitely recommend the practice dates.

Also see you've stopped approaching for now. I think when you start again you should ask for specific feedback more frequently. A lot of your updates on the actual approaches don't give enough detail and I think that's a problem - they just say you've "done X amount of approaches but no dice". I think if you have a log of all your approaches/the situation and then chuck it here, people can see the patterns immediately, just like how the feedback you got on your post about the two young girls in the coffee shop immediately highlighted something you were doing wrong that you were then able to immediately correct.