ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

[ray_zorse]

This is a good update. I have been following your updates. I have a bit of feedback to make in regards to converting approaches to dates. My concept for this is as follows:

What you need to do is get some solid conversation in, like more than getting introduced and chatting about her day and stuff. Those things are important but they are mainly important for what they lead to.

So for instance you saw her on the train and she is carrying a briefcase. You asked her if she is going to a meeting and she told you she is a real estate agent. So your challenge at this point is to build a connection or shared interest based on this information.

I know a little about real estate but I am not sure if I know enough to carry a deeper conversation on that topic and besides I do not want to look like I am showing off or qualifying myself. What I would do instead is to inquire about the circumstances of her becoming a real estate agent and WHY.

So you asked "when did you know you would like to go into real estate" and got answers like "I realized I am a people person" or "I find it satisfying when..." or really it could be anything. This is your chance and it is when you start connecting with her. Particularly, you relate to her experiences, qualify, etc.

Your goal at this point is to get about 10mins of solid conversation in, and maybe at the 8min mark when she has said something particularly interesting you say "that's amazing. I agree completely. We must definitely discuss this more over coffee. Let me have your number so we can set something up". This fits so completely into the conversation that she hardly realizes she has been asked for a date. Once you have the number saved just go right on talking and then warm down for say 3mins and then say you have to go and you look forward to seeing her soon and will text the details.

The reason to do it like this is to get a really solid number where the hard work is done and all you need to do is name the time and place, because you already built the rapport.

Another way to think of this is it is a kind of a screening process too, because if her responses are unsatisfactory like "oh yeah well I finished school and I wasn't really doing anything much and I tried real estate" then unless your calendar is very bare you can politely move on. And if you do make your move you can be assured that when the date actually comes you'll have lots to talk about and more connecting to do.

I hope it helps! Great work on the compliments! You are obviousky getting your fundamentals locked in which is so important. I hope I have demonstrated here why your conversation is also an important fundamental very much up there with fashion, gym, eye contact and the like.

cheers, Ray

 

[Científico]

At this point, I'm completely at a loss because I honestly can't tell you the last time any approach converted to a date. It's a 0% batting average. They either never respond or disappear the second I mention meeting. I don't get it.

ElderPrice, how much volume are you putting in? Are you getting in those 30 approaches a week minimum? That is what you need if you want to be serious about making daygame your primary lead source.

Bear in mind that DayGame is difficult. In my opinion one of the hardest forms of pick up. It is a performance that has to be on-point and it still has a high failure rate. You'll be great if you are getting even 10% of the numbers you get to convert to dates (its normal for up to 50% not even to respond to an icebreaker text).

I'm having good results right now mixing daygame with other lead sources - being online dating, or trying to attend any social events from the dance community that are still happening despite COVID. Since you also socially dance you could do this as well to build up your pipeline.

Both of these lead sources have a higher return rate for me right now compared to daygame (though I like the leads from daygame better, especially compared to online - since I am approaching top caliber women).

 

[ElderPrice]

@ray_zorse Thank you for the post! I'll consciously try to do what you're suggesting more often. I've done it before, and it hasn't seemed to make a noticeable impact. Even the stunner breakfast joint girl I mentioned in my update - she said she lifted weights and was on her way to the gym, so I pretty much said exactly "that's amazing. I agree completely. We must definitely discuss this more over coffee. Let me have your number so we can set something up." I say that to any girl I meet that has traits that I legitimately agree with or like. I've worked on qualifying girls before.

Something else I want to try more because why not, is Tony's latest article on touching. If the science says your batting average goes up simply from breaking the touch barrier, then I should probably make sure to break the touch barrier (smoothly) with every girl I meet. Seems reasonable.

 

[ElderPrice]

ElderPrice, how much volume are you putting in? Are you getting in those 30 approaches a week minimum? That is what you need if you want to be serious about making daygame your primary lead source.

Bear in mind that DayGame is difficult. In my opinion one of the hardest forms of pick up. It is a performance that has to be on-point and it still has a high failure rate. You'll be great if you are getting even 10% of the numbers you get to convert to dates (its normal for up to 50% not even to respond to an icebreaker text).

I'm having good results right now mixing daygame with other lead sources - being online dating, or trying to attend any social events from the dance community that are still happening despite COVID. Since you also socially dance you could do this as well to build up your pipeline.

Both of these lead sources have a higher return rate for me right now compared to daygame (though I like the leads from daygame better, especially compared to online - since I am approaching top caliber women).

I'm trying to day game as often as I can, but a glaring problem I'm having is that I'm not getting anywhere near enough volume. Meaning, even if I'm at the mall for 2-3 hours, I'm not getting 20 or so approaches. Maybe if I spam approached... but of course I don't really want to spam approach lol. I'm doing better each time, but even still, I know on the whole between all my day game opportunities (stores, grocery stores, out and about), the volume isn't there.

With online dating, I've had some leads, but I've lost a number of them simply because I haven't been free during the week. As in, you could tell they were horny and down to meet that same night... but I was just too busy. I'd say 'how about Friday or Saturday night?' they say sure, then it never materializes. Anytime I've gone on an app on the weekend it's always been a ghost town on those nights. I'm going to try tinder again one of these weekends. The last time I deleted my account then recreated it, it didn't come with the 'new user matchfest.' So I currently have a theory that your profile needs to be deleted for some extended period of time to clear out the system, then perhaps it'll give you that good new user experience. So one of these Fridays I want to fire it up, then hopefully I have a lot of match opportunities for Saturday night. Matched with some stunners on tinder though - that was pretty cool to see.

Finally, on your question on social dancing, yes that's always an option I keep in my back pocket, but I'm honestly pessimistic about it because I tried that route for years and nothing came of it. My experience was it was closer to social circle than cold approach. In any event, it's a tough route to currently go with all the covid restrictions. But yeah I do want to dip my toe back in that water to see what my experience is like after this year or so of making progress in other areas of seduction. How's the dance scene going for you with all the restrictions?

 

[Científico]

How's the dance scene going for you with all the restrictions?

There were a few outdoor events lately, and in one of the neighboring states in my particular corner of the US there are actually some venues that are still having events. Not sure how much longer that is going to last though.

I have a nice group I am fairly close with that sometimes have private parties. You have to have a few friends that will invite you to these things though.

Long story short though, yes I am still getting leads from dancing. There are still some gatherings.

 

[ElderPrice]

11/22

Yet another close call. Summary: got another girl laying in my bed - couldn't seal the deal. I encountered the period excuse for the first time, and a bunch of persistence tricks didn't change her mind.

I could have persisted harder as I definitely didn't use every trick in the book, but honestly I just didn't know how to proceed if she was telling the truth. Do you put down a towel or something? I dunno. I just knew I didn't want blood all over my sheets!

 

[NewBeeWinner]

@ElderPrice

Hey ElderPrice! Good to hear you're at least getting girls in bed~

When it comes to the period excuse, persistence isn't really the best card. Sometimes she's saying that because she's nervous, other times she's actually on her period. The best thing I found was to express how you understand that it is embarrassing for girls but that you don't mind (be honest btw - you could even say you like it better as it acts as lubricant haha). The big thing is to say that then make sure you act as it isn't a big deal - because it's not.

Btw, yes, blood does get everywhere (on you on and her), so yes, do put down a red towel or sheet you don't mind washing afterwards. With my most recent LR (this happened after the events of the LR detailed on GC), I told her to jump into the shower with me to clean off - it was fun and it shows that you care and aren't bothered by it. Just a tip

Hope this helps,

NBW

 

[ElderPrice]

@ElderPrice

Hey ElderPrice! Good to hear you're at least getting girls in bed~

When it comes to the period excuse, persistence isn't really the best card. Sometimes she's saying that because she's nervous, other times she's actually on her period. The best thing I found was to express how you understand that it is embarrassing for girls but that you don't mind (be honest btw - you could even say you like it better as it acts as lubricant haha). The big thing is to say that then make sure you act as it isn't a big deal - because it's not.

Btw, yes, blood does get everywhere (on you on and her), so yes, do put down a red towel or sheet you don't mind washing afterwards. With my most recent LR (this happened after the events of the LR detailed on GC), I told her to jump into the shower with me to clean off - it was fun and it shows that you care and aren't bothered by it. Just a tip

Hope this helps,

NBW

Thank you! Makes sense to me. Doesn't sound like my kind of thing, but it sounds easy to deal with.

 

[ElderPrice]

12/5/20

I may have had an epiphany about my conversations with girls, whether in-person or texting. I think there's just been a huge sexual element missing.

I got to this epiphany because I recently matched with someone on Facebook and by chance we had a conversation that was just far more seductive than my usual conversations.

Conversation summary:
The conversation started by me pointing out how she not only lives far af from me (way on the other side of town) but she lives in a well known retirement area. I say she might be screwed, and might have to settle for dating nearby retirees. She jokingly says that's a great idea, she can find a sugar daddy and not work anymore. I agree then say they can buy her a helicopter or something so she can quickly visit my side of town to see her side pieces. She thinks it's genius, as long as whatever vehicle has a chauffeur so she doesn't have to fly/drive. Then to keep this summary concise, I lead the conversation to the following visuals: the chauffeur waiting patiently in the car while we bang, keeping our love affair a secret from the fictional husband, and her letting loose her naughty side.

She was strongly hooked, and the proceeding discussions on logistics and just her text replies in general are 10x better than what I normally receive.

Because her schedule is pretty much the complete opposite of mine and because again she lives on the other side of town - basically an hour away - I have no physical results to report yet, but that isn't my point. My point is I can clearly see far more interest with a conversation like this, as opposed to pretty much anything else I talk about over text or in person.

I don't know if "seductive" is the best word to describe this. But you know what I mean. The conversation isn't the usual and boring. It's out of the ordinary, hints at sexual topics (before the conversation escalates) and most importantly, drives her sexual emotions with visuals.

For all these years, it's not like I've been trying to avoid conversation elements like this. It's just always been difficult for me to think of gambits like this on the spot (especially with girls in person). This instance just had all the right variables so the stars aligned and it happened naturally. I'm very much looking forward to trying this again. I also saw a post from Skills today sharing a similar gambit: telling the girl you had a dream of her, in short, being flirty and sexual, and just like this example, the idea is that your story gets her imagination and horniness going.

While on one hand I'm eager to work on this 'gambit' and see how often I can replicate its results, on the other hand I think I'm honestly starting to lose motivation in general. The reason is, I have a mental block that I'm having trouble shaking. I consistently get some warm leads through social circle, but I always stop short of acting on them because I'm pretty concerned about my lack of experience in the bedroom. I really, really, don't want my reputation to spread as a bad lover. So, I've been cold approaching and hitting the apps as hard as I have been because I really, really, want to get some experience with strangers before dabbing in social circle.

So because I've been cold approaching for years now and I still have no lays to show for it, I think my fuel tank is just starting to leak. It's not empty by any means. Just leaking. Some burn out. Covid is definitely a factor. At clubs I could get in 20-40 approaches per night. Day game it feels like I have to walk around aimlessly for hours just to get a handful of approaches. It definitely hasn't been fun for a while.

I'm going to dig through more articles on GC and google to see what else I can try to change things up. To see if there's a better way to "do" day game. For instance, am I walking around the mall wrong? Are there better topics to bring up in conversation? What else or what other kinds of gambits can (should) I add to my conversations? I've already been trying new day spots to explore and see if there are any better locations out there, and now I have this seductive/story kind of gambit to try incorporating. So I've got some things to work on.

 

[ElderPrice]

12/21 FINALLY some day game momentum

After a few more poor day game outings, two things happened. One, I finally started getting pissed off enough to get a little more aggressive, meaning, I used the energy to do less thinking and more approaching. And two, I realized that I wasn't warming up enough, and when I would finally get warm, my outing would end and I'd lose momentum since usually that would be it until the next weekend.

This weekend, in short, I did a lot of approaching and then kept it up the next day. I stayed warm from the previous day. As a result, during my mall outing this weekend, I was in the zone starting with the first approach.

I did more approaches in a mall outing than I ever have before. I think it was 15-20. It was also the first time ever I opened mom/daughter combos. I think I opened three of them. I also got my first number ever from a mall approach.

So good progress. From here, I'm going to try everything possible to not let the momentum subside, and to keep shooting for more approaches with each new outing.

 

[Científico]

It's great that you are still at it. The cold weather and the virus has made me enter a sort-off hibernation mode. I commend your energy in getting yourself out there and approaching.

 

[ElderPrice]

It's great that you are still at it. The cold weather and the virus has made me enter a sort-off hibernation mode. I commend your energy in getting yourself out there and approaching.

Thank you sir. My mentality (and my belief) is that I can't afford to let cold weather and covid prevent me from approaching. In the Jeff Goldblum voice: I have to, uh, find a way.

 

[ElderPrice]

12/24 First grocery store number close

Had to buy a couple items at the store today after the gym, so I went to Whole Foods to hopefully meet some ladies It's not the best Whole Foods in the world as the number of cute girls goes, but it's Whole Foods so it's always worth a shot.

I was in the store for quite a bit because I was picking stuff up at the counters and they were taking longer than usual. Throughout the time I was walking around the store and waiting at the counters, like usual there weren't many options as far as girls go. The top two that caught my eye were clearly with boyfriends. The rest weren't attractive.

So I'm standing and waiting in a checkout line and a cute girl joins the line next to me, same place in her line. A few lines down someone drops a bottle of champagne and it makes a nice boom as it hits the floor. An excellent indirect opener.

Me: "Wow did you heat that??"
Her: "Yeah. Somebody's starting the holiday celebrations early!"
Talkative. Excellent!
*some banter about the holidays*
She notices my gym shoes since I was still in gym clothes. She loves that they're lifting shoes and tells me she also lifts. She also looks in my basket and comments/asks about what I have in there. Well, her eyes are all in my direction, aren't they? The interest is strong with this one!
Noticing we're about to hit the checkout lane which will pull us apart and hinder the momentum, I say "Hey it's almost both our turns. Tell you what, let's checkout, then whoever is done first wait up for the other person and we can continue this conversation."
She agrees. We finish checking out at the exact same time so nobody ended up having to wait. The conversation picks up right where it left off and I lead her outside. We chat a little more. She asks where I'm parked pointing to the busy lot, which I interpreted as 'let's keep walking and talking to our cars.'
I say: Before we head into the hectic lot, let me grab your number first (said with a smirk).
She agrees with a big smile, then I ask what her schedule is like so we can meetup again. We pick a date, said goodbye and that was that.

This was one of the easier interactions I've encountered because this girl was just oozing with happiness that she finally got opened by a cool guy. For any noobs reading, this was a great example why you always keep approaching. Regardless of where your skills are at, at some point you'll talk to a girl that is so into you that she makes the interaction easy. You still have to open, lead the interaction, and close, but she'll make everything else easy.

Who cares if the last 30 approaches didn't go so well. Find 1 more to approach instead of going home, because you never know if that one will be the "easy" interaction you've been looking for.

EDIT: Oh yeah and yesterday I had a date with a super cutie from online dating. It went well and we're going to meet again this weekend

 

[Científico]

Nice use of a situational opener in that Whole Foods approach. Those situations don't come often but when they do, they can come in handy.

 

[ElderPrice]

1/13 Big reset

Well that high was fun while it lasted. The online date started texting excuses for why she couldn't meet again, then when I persisted, she sent a 'go away' kind of text. The Whole Foods girl responded to texts but eventually gave the 'you're too old for me' answer and ghosted. I have a date scheduled this weekend with a mall direct approach girl (she was out of town for weeks for the holidays), but these whiffs crashed my mood. More accurately, it wasn't the whiffs that crashed my mood since individual rejections never get to me. It was more so the light they shined on a particular truth: I *may* now have a big enough sample of day game approaches (particularly direct) where I'm getting the feeling that it's the same old shit for me. The same patterns.

- No girl contributes any effort to get a date scheduled. Always excuses
- Their texts are always short and uninterested
- They never initiate or reciprocate touch
- They just never act like I'm a catch

Not saying this to vent. I'm going somewhere with this.

I responded to this crash by doing what I've always done: go online and 'hit the books' trying to investigate and hopefully fix whatever's wrong. Naturally, after working on enough tactics/outer game stuff for the last several months, I felt a necessity to look inward. I stumbled upon and read the Mark Manson book Models. He's much more about inner game and puts a strong emphasis on being vulnerable. Basically being vulnerable is a display of strength. Wanting to hide your imperfections is a weakness.

Here are my issue areas after thinking about it and being honest with myself:

1. I'm ashamed by a lack of sexual/dating/relationship experience at my age, and as a result, I'm desperate to gain some fast. This has resulted in the mindset that - being honest with myself - of ANY woman I've ever talked to that I consider attractive, there's pretty much nothing she could have said that would turn me off. Is she lazy and a moocher? I don't care, I'd hit it. Is she a communist? I don't care, I'd hit it. Does she believe in crystals, energies, and the alignment of the planets? I don't care, I'd hit it.

Well, there you go. How the hell can you attract women when you're giving off a desperation vibe? Similarly, how can you fake being a confident man when the second you get into bed your inexperience becomes obvious? No wonder I've made probably 2000+ approaches at this point with zero lays.

2. I don't recall ever being vulnerable with a woman. I've never let the conversation get anywhere near previous relationships and I'm afraid of the topic coming up. I've been afraid to let really anyone know about my inexperience. Or any of my imperfections, really.

3. I don't think I've ever built a deep connection with a woman. I can't tell if it's because I don't know how to connect with a woman or if I simply don't know how to express something deep about myself with words.

So my new project is addressing these issues. Coming up with a list of traits I want in a woman and putting a real effort into screening for them should be the easy part.

The hard part will be #1. I don't know how to shake the belief that older + inexperienced = not good, or the belief that the way to address inexperience is to gain experience. Or can simply screening for a non-judgmental woman be all that it takes? Don't know.

In any event, I'm glad I got to this point because it seems I may have identified some major, major issues that would definitely explain why it feels like 99.999% of the woman interactions I've had felt like pulling teeth.

 

[Sub-Zero]

1/13 Big reset

Well that high was fun while it lasted. The online date started texting excuses for why she couldn't meet again, then when I persisted, she sent a 'go away' kind of text. The Whole Foods girl responded to texts but eventually gave the 'you're too old for me' answer and ghosted. I have a date scheduled this weekend with a mall direct approach girl (she was out of town for weeks for the holidays), but these whiffs crashed my mood. More accurately, it wasn't the whiffs that crashed my mood since individual rejections never get to me. It was more so the light they shined on a particular truth: I *may* now have a big enough sample of day game approaches (particularly direct) where I'm getting the feeling that it's the same old shit for me. The same patterns.

- No girl contributes any effort to get a date scheduled. Always excuses
- Their texts are always short and uninterested
- They never initiate or reciprocate touch
- They just never act like I'm a catch

Not saying this to vent. I'm going somewhere with this.

I responded to this crash by doing what I've always done: go online and 'hit the books' trying to investigate and hopefully fix whatever's wrong. Naturally, after working on enough tactics/outer game stuff for the last several months, I felt a necessity to look inward. I stumbled upon and read the Mark Manson book Models. He's much more about inner game and puts a strong emphasis on being vulnerable. Basically being vulnerable is a display of strength. Wanting to hide your imperfections is a weakness.

Here are my issue areas after thinking about it and being honest with myself:

1. I'm ashamed by a lack of sexual/dating/relationship experience at my age, and as a result, I'm desperate to gain some fast. This has resulted in the mindset that - being honest with myself - of ANY woman I've ever talked to that I consider attractive, there's pretty much nothing she could have said that would turn me off. Is she lazy and a moocher? I don't care, I'd hit it. Is she a communist? I don't care, I'd hit it. Does she believe in crystals, energies, and the alignment of the planets? I don't care, I'd hit it.

Well, there you go. How the hell can you attract women when you're giving off a desperation vibe? Similarly, how can you fake being a confident man when the second you get into bed your inexperience becomes obvious? No wonder I've made probably 2000+ approaches at this point with zero lays.

2. I don't recall ever being vulnerable with a woman. I've never let the conversation get anywhere near previous relationships and I'm afraid of the topic coming up. I've been afraid to let really anyone know about my inexperience. Or any of my imperfections, really.

3. I don't think I've ever built a deep connection with a woman. I can't tell if it's because I don't know how to connect with a woman or if I simply don't know how to express something deep about myself with words.

So my new project is addressing these issues. Coming up with a list of traits I want in a woman and putting a real effort into screening for them should be the easy part.

The hard part will be #1. I don't know how to shake the belief that older + inexperienced = not good, or the belief that the way to address inexperience is to gain experience. Or can simply screening for a non-judgmental woman be all that it takes? Don't know.

In any event, I'm glad I got to this point because it seems I may have identified some major, major issues that would definitely explain why it feels like 99.999% of the woman interactions I've had felt like pulling teeth.

Good to see you still in the game bro.

Don’t feel ashamed. As you can see, this shit is hard. You’re putting in the work so don’t feel ashamed. You can’t control how these girls act and how they respond to things.

Nothing wrong with trying to get laid as fast as you can. As long as you don’t let women see it that way. You really need determination and consistency with this, and you got it. Just persist in a relaxed way, the more women you meet the better.

IMO do not let any women know about your inexperience at all. I wouldn’t recommend it. You can let off you’re not a playa, but I wouldn’t tell her that you haven’t had sex yet. I would suggest to keep it to yourself because I don’t see it as helpful in any way.

Maybe to connect better with a girl, try talking to her on the phone and deep dive a little bit, just focus on her. I wouldn’t reveal any imperfections personally. I don’t know if it’s good or not, but some women I have known try to use it against me and I didn’t even tell them anything that bad.

Also how old was the girl that said you were too old? Sounds like a college student because you’re still young my guy.

Keep striving bro. I’m rooting for you.

 

[Beam]

My man, you've got to start posting more detailed breakdowns. Write a detailed FR on the date with the cutie who started making excuses (you might think it went really well but if you objectively write it all out here, someone might see something that you were doing wrong which killed it), post your text conversations with her and the Whole Foods girl.

 

[ElderPrice]

My man, you've got to start posting more detailed breakdowns. Write a detailed FR on the date with the cutie who started making excuses (you might think it went really well but if you objectively write it all out here, someone might see something that you were doing wrong which killed it), post your text conversations with her and the Whole Foods girl.

I'll think about it. I honestly just haven't cared to perfect my text game. I'd rather just get it right in-person where the girl actually wants to respond, help set logistics, and meet up again.

 

[ElderPrice]

1/18 Back-to-back instant-dates at the mall

Interesting stuff. Despite my mood being a little down, I went to the mall twice this weekend, and each time I scored an instant-date.

On Saturday, I was getting coffee at a cafe store kinda thing and I found myself standing and waiting for my drink next to this blue-haired cutie. I opened by complimenting her hair. We start chatting and after several minutes after we both had our drinks, she beats me to asking to sit at a table and keep talking.

We talk the usual intro kinda topics, but then I tried as best I could to build a deeper connection and qualify, as per my last post. Examples that I successfully communicated:
- We're both fans of a very old TV show. I told her about how this show is a huge part of my life and how I am who I am today because of this show. Basically, my parents would always have this show on when I was a little kid throughout grade school. So the show is a part of who I am.
- She mentioned all the fitness things she does and I told her about how passionately I'm into my fitness/work outs and how important being strong is to me, plus how I value that in a woman.
- She mentioned how she's in law school so I talk about how much I value intelligence in a girl.

Before parting ways, I ask her out, she says yes, and we agree on this coming Saturday. Still need to finalize details over text, but the day is agreed to.

Then on Sunday, I'm just walking around and then BAM a cute girl walks right out of a store as I'm walking by. She's wearing a mask with a weird pattern on it so I ask about it. Conversation started. We talk for a bit, then upon learning that we're both pretty much just walking around aimlessly, I propose walking around together. She agrees.

I try to qualify her and build connections as best I can. The crux of the conversation was about how she's just back into town after having been away for two years. That plus joking around here and there since she seemed to have a decent sense of humor. Before parting, I ask her out another time, she says yes, we agree that the weekend is the best time for our schedules, and we also need to finalize details over text.

My pessimistic guess for each of these is that they'll flake. Their vibes just didn't seem impressed/excited to me. One girl said she was coming off a break up, and the other just moved back into town, so IMO their vibes felt more like 'This is nice having someone to talk to.'

We'll see what happens. You guys will be the first to know

 

[Beam]

I'll think about it. I honestly just haven't cared to perfect my text game. I'd rather just get it right in-person where the girl actually wants to respond, help set logistics, and meet up again.

Dude... it's not about what you'd rather do, it's about what you need to do. You could have a great interaction with a girl and bomb it over text, as I just did last week (proven by the fact that she reached out to me after two days asking when I was free for a drink and I still managed to mess it up).

It's not even about perfecting it, it's about getting it to a good enough level that you're not losing girls because of it. There are multiple stages in the process and you could fuck up at any point - don't just focus on the approach and initial interaction, you need to be focusing on the process as a whole.

But even then, that's not even my main point. I didn't say you should just post your text convos, I also said to post a detailed FR of the date.

There are so many places it could have gone wrong. It could have been the date itself, it could have been the follow up texting. Same with Whole Foods girl. It could have been the interaction itself, it could have been the follow up texting.

Without detailed breakdowns people won't be able to help you pinpoint where it went wrong! There might be something glaringly obvious that you're doing wrong that you don't realize, that you'll continue to do if you don't post detailed breakdowns. At this point given the number of approaches you've made I'd definitely say sitting down to write these out in detail will be one of the better uses of your time.