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Limerance Journal: Help Needed

Casanova Newhouse

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Stumbling around Youtube's feed and came across this gem from two decades ago - the Sugababes' "Push the Button." It's a near-perfect encapsulation of how oblivious men are to women's IOIs. Can anyone spot the game concepts contained herein?


How naive I was when this first came out - I thought it was a metaphor for the clitoris. I was today year's old when I learned it was actually about an elevator button! I'm inspired to keep an eye out as I go about my day. Awareness, approach, escalation are the watchwords for this week.
 
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Casanova Newhouse

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It was.
Please avoid the use of terms like B i t c h....the filter will auto-block it

Mods currently have over 500 requests on queue, from name changes to member approvals to spam cleaning.
Appreciate it. Understood.
 
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Casanova Newhouse

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Update:
Set a date Tuesday for last night with a girl from Bumble. She lives locally and is very tall. It turns out we met a couple years ago at a concert in our small town with a couple of indie acts that I was shocked would play such a small venue. I'm a big fan of a certain kind of shoegazy, singer-songwriter (nice to meet you, Conor Oberst and Jenny Lewis - and marry me Lana del Rey), and so was she. All she remembered was a vague, awkward interaction. I thought it went OK but I wasn't gaming her as I was in a pretty tight relationship then.

Tuesday night I get a text from her: "Where are you? I've been here 20 minutes." Shit, I never confirmed that we were supposed to meet Wednesday instead. My bad. I figured that was the end of it. Texted, "I understand if you don't want to bother with a rematch. I wish you the best." She texted back a "Get out of a jail free" card.

OK it's still on, but I feel like I set a back-foot precedent and that she will have the upper hand. I almost backed out even after her proffering a second chance. But I need the practice. I had a half dozen hot leads a couple weeks ago and now nothing. I'll report back tomorrow on how it goes tonight. She's cute, but not exactly what fires up my engine. I've learned, though, that my finest, mutually supportive relationships developed over time, and that those with the off-the-charts sexual intensity usually end in disaster.

Nothing from my limerance girl since last week. Our last text exchange, she was planning on coming to a performance this weekend in which I'm involved. However, it sold out almost immediately and she didn't get tickets. We are planning another show, so we will see. I'm still obsessed with her, rehearsing conversations in my head nonstop, but I can actually feel the intensity of it starting to fade. It comes in waves, but the waves are diffusing. This limerance problem has been better than the past few; I am actually feeling like I can survive this. This journal is helping. Progress!

Social Proof Lesson:
My most recent limerance situation, back in 2007, was very messy. I won't go into details, but she would break up with me every few weeks out of remorse and guilt. I would be heart-broken. I had read "The Game" not long before my second divorce and while not exactly gaming according to the book, I was posting on the old forums and getting myself out there. I had determined to occupy myself with picking up girls during these breakups (I believe this girl - with whom I am still messing around to this day - had/has a case of BPD) and was having some success.

I was a pretty sexy motherfucker in my 40s, great physical condition, playing sports at a highly competitive level, during very well professionally, etc. A good friend of mine was going through a bad breakup as well, and we started winging for each other. He was objectively cuter than me, though I had a powerful presence that worked in my favor. We were like a two-man boy band - an adorable puppy dog and a big sexy brute - something for all kinds of girls.

He quickly fell into a relationship with a girl who was hot, and a little crazy, that he met in "the program." Big red flags all over. However, I am happy to say he's still with her, and they worked through their sobriety issues and created a happy family. I love it when my boys find happiness. Especially when I helped facilitate.

We were hanging out with his new girl at a local resort. I spotted a group of 20-something girls sitting around in a circle with their cocktails. I approached with some stupid opener - not who lies more, but of that level. It was enough to get in. It was a sorority reunion and a bachelorette party all in one. About a dozen of them, all hotties, not one under a 7. For some stupid reason, I led the conversation toward abortion - it was in the news and I was making a point about "Freakonomics" demonstrating that at least some of the reduction in crime could be attributed to Roe V. Wade. Yes I should be flogged, but I swear there was context for it!

They were good Christian sorority sisters, but still it led to a spirited debate, even among themselves. It could not have turned their pussies dryer than a Santa Ana wind, though. And to make it worse, I knocked over my drink, noisily breaking glass all over the stonework at this fancy resort. Yikes.

I slunk away back to my boy and his girl. He was "Dude that was painful!" Yes it was. But lo and behold, there was a younger girl and an older man sitting nearby. She kept making eyes at me, until I finally yanked myself out of the self-defeating funk to say hi. Within minutes, she invited me over, she was staying at the resort with her father, and proceeded to ask me out (in front of her dad!) Her invitation was couched as a tourist looking for a local guide. Still, the implications were clear. She was a gorgeous German girl with bright eyes and a nice tight figure. And her English was very good.

We never hooked up, because I reconciled shortly after with BPD girl. But I could have. She was clearly into me.

It was interesting that what looked to me, and my wing, like an utter failure of a flameout, looked to her like a bunch of girls who were attracted to me. I couldn't figure it out. The conversation was spirited, yes, but most of those girls obviously thought I was strange, even a little creepy. At least to me it seemed obvious. From her perspective, it looked like something completely different. Don't make assumptions is the lesson, I guess.

Plan of Action:
Enjoy getting to know this girl. Don't put any expectations on it. Don't allow the fact that I'm fucked up about another girl to keep me from enjoying myself. Talk less. Smile more.
 
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ZenRising

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I knocked over my drink, noisily breaking glass all over the stonework at this fancy resort.

If it makes you feel any better, I was once in a nightclub and, while trying to get across the crowd, I decided to take a shortcut through the DJ booth (DJ was a friend of mine, so he let me)... anyway, I got my foot caught on some cables and pulled the entire rig - decks, mixers, turntables, the lot! - over.... C R A S H ! Music stops... DJ starts screaming... lights go up... 10 minutes of painful repairs before staff get the whole rig up and running again... and my DJ friend points at me and plays 'Sabotage' by the Beastie Boys...
 

Casanova Newhouse

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Update:
Date Thursday with the girl I flaked on Tuesday. She was super sweet, though a little hard to engage at first. Once again, I recommend the Cube for first dates. It's more about screening for girls with vivid imaginations, and who are good sports, than any revealing psychological insights. You do get a lot of material to bust them with later, however. Funny callbacks and such to the silly stuff they tell you.

For a girl of her age (late 50s) she was in remarkably good shape - youthful soft skin and a supple bosom. And as a tall boy, I love tall girls. But boyish hips are a major boner-killer with me. She would have done just fine by my earlier standards, but no more. Gotta have that badonk.

Still, I like her. I could imagine having her as a platonic friend for events and such. Once I removed the element of sexual energy, the date became much more comfortable and fun. Her musical tastes are exactly the same as mine - a specific indie groove from the 2000-aughts and early tweens - like The National, Wilco, Radiohead (going back a bit) and, of course, Lana Del Rey (my queen).

My sold-out public event last night - the culmination of 8 weeks of preparation - was a triumph! Limerance girl was in attendance. I loved to have her see me in such a highly social-proofed situation. Especially since other attractive ladies were in attendance and vying for my attention before and after. I gave it less than 10 percent chance she'd show up - she did not purchase her ticket in advance and the event sold out. But we had a few no-shows and so she was able to sneak in. A dozen people were turned away, so it was just lucky timing on her part.

She texted afterwards with a sincere message of congratulations. I told her she still owed me a hike (I know, I should have said that I owed her a hike - play up the chasing frame) but I was a little worried about my attainability in that moment.

I got a chance to observe her closely. She's quite beautiful but not near as much as I've built up in my mind. I had been feeling those pangs of loneliness and loss around her starting to diminish. Now I'm fearing they'll start up again, as I've been obsessively fantasizing about winning her back. She could have easily stayed away from the event after all -- just like most of my closest friends did. I don't trust my judgment around her at all.

I wanted to reply to her text to see if she wanted to get a post-performance drink, but it felt a little needy, at least from the point of view of my current headspace. So I didn't. Maybe I should have. Take advantage of the fleeting fame. Whaddya think?

There were a couple of girls in attendance who were overtly flirting with me, one of them was pretty cute, a slender English girl with the kind of cat's eyes that I find very attractive - a little like Polly Walker for you cinephiles. But I didn't get her number, when it seemed like she was hoping I'd ask. She was only visiting for another week - perfect for a fling. Damn I'm so oblivious sometimes.

On a brighter note: I got the loveliest voice message yesterday from an app to a girl that I hit up with a very brief message about her lovely smile. She said that she loved my profile - my silliness, sexy voice, handsome photos, etc, and wanted to know what I was looking for, blah blah. She's 20 years younger and is very (very) cute. Her smile is truly transcendent, wouldn't be surprised if you could see it from space. She lives an hour away, so that's not ideal.

I've got 10-12 numbers of cuties accumulated over the past six or seven months and I plan on pinging them occasionally for meet ups. I've been getting a lot of girls from online showing interest, then quickly pivoting to "well, take me out to a nice dinner and we'll see where it leads." Ah no, I think not.

Plan of Action:
Work takes priority. I can't let the big picture swamp me, must break everything down to discrete tasks and take them on one by one. As far as dating, take it slow. Remain cool and aloof. As far as limerance girl, am planning on texting for a casual meet up later in the week.
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

gameboy

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Good point about The Cube. I have to memorize it for when I actually get a date, lol. I find it hard to remember canned material, but games like 3 Favorite Animals and The Cube sound like they're really fun and useful.

As for your limerance girl, no idea if you should've invited her for a drink. If you didn't, then it was probably for a good reason... Seems hard to get her out one-on-one, am I right?
 

Casanova Newhouse

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Our last encounter was one-on-one, and it went exceedingly well, at least by my estimation. But yes, scheduling issues, weather, etc.

I get the feeling she doesn't know how to feel about me. Which I take as a good sign.
 

Casanova Newhouse

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Updates:
The very cute Latina with the bright smile, who left the sexy voice message through the app, called yesterday. We had an interesting conversation. She loves older men, her own age are a bunch of flaky ne'er do wells. A few red flags. She's 40 and has four kids with two different men - three with one man, fair enough. But the fourth kid with a man she claimed trapped her into staying in the relationship with pregnancy. Lots of bitching and moaning about him and their custody battle. Hmm TMI alert.

She was driving while we talked, then said she had arrived at her destination and would call back. Nothing yet. If she does, I will push for a meetup. The distance, almost an hour away, is not ideal. Again reminded why I struggle to find a suitable partner - living in a small town suits me perfectly, except for this!

Shame. She's got a very feminine voice, her photos look good - pretty face and a voluptuous body - and she seems to be looking for a man exactly like me — A masculine, dominant daddy who is tall, strong and intelligent. Yes, I know most of them are looking for a man like me. And yet another reminder the age thing can work in my favor as much as it doesn't. She seems down to clown.

I keep my responses to cute girls' online profiles very basic. My go to: "These AI bots are getting out of control, you are way too cute to be real." Or, "I'll bet you can spot that smile from outer space." Lots of fun ways to tease them from there.

Approached a few times today, basically forcing girls to say "Hi" on my walks. It's been interesting to see them come in sullen and silent, and leave smiling or at least breaking them out of their bubble for a moment.

At the cafe I opened a very cute, at least an 8, black girl I see a couple times a week. Told her the leather pants were styling. "Damn girl, you've got some serious drip!" She laughed and engaged. I think hearing a man of my age dropping vernacular on her got her interest. We talked about her job, how the rains actually were good for her business, how our little town is doing, etc. A warm conversation while we waited for our drinks. I am not adding her to the target list, but she's lovely. I'm just getting out of my comfort zone and making friends.

Got a meet up with limerence girl tomorrow. A couple friends told me that she is very likely to still be interested. Girls don't dump a guy then actually show up at his events without a formal invitation, or comment on social media posts in which he is mentioned, without second guessing their decision to end the relationship. Who knows? I have very little confidence in my judgment when it comes to her.

I've got plenty of conversations rehearsed about other girls and how they just want me for booty calls (it has the benefit of apparently being true, and certainly seemed true in her case) and how it's harder and harder for me to be OK with it. And how I thought when she first showed up in my office, she was another one of my groupies, etc. Some of these are natural callbacks to earlier conversations we've had, or to a few recent incidents in my life. I think I can keep them socially calibrated to not come off as still romantically interested in her, while conveying that I'm in demand in a subtle, off-hand way. I don't know. I really like her as a person, too, which only complicates things.

Plan of Action:
Be cool and unreactive. Keep a lightly teasing ironic tone with her, as that's our mutual language, and yet continue to deep-dive to strengthen our connection. I want to tell her that those incidents in which she was describing something emotional from her youth really connected with me. It felt like it was my words coming out of her mouth, and how it made me feel less alone.
 
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gameboy

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I always enjoy reading your journal entries. I can tell you really enjoy interacting with women and appreciating them for what they are, beyond just going for sex.

Well done opening the hot black girl in the cafe! Did you get a chance to grab her number? Or counting on seeing her again at the cafe anyway?

About the latina that called you I got mixed feelings, hopefuly not a gold digger? But I'm sure you'd be aware if that was the case.

And good luck with limerance girl tomorrow. I'm wondering what she looks like by now!
 
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Casanova Newhouse

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Thanks gameboy! I enjoy your entries as well.

I do think the spicy Latina cutie could very well be a gold digger. I think many girls are at least some degree. We'll see.

The little cocoa cutie? I think she’s way too young but hey maybe that’s for her to decide 🤷🏼

I saw a limerance girl just a few days ago. She looks good. Maybe not as great as I built up in my mind but you add her lovely personality and no wonder I’m so sprung.
 

Casanova Newhouse

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Update:
Played hooky today and spent three hours hanging out with Limerance Girl in the great outdoors. It's been about three months that we've been saying we'd hang out and it always got rained out or mis-scheduled. Except for the mid-day walk and talk.

It was well worth the wait. I thought it would never happen.

From the standpoint of my peace of mind, it was probably a bad thing. I'm all gaga over her once again, just as bad after we fucked, and doing everything I can to not to send her a gushy text or email, or worse, call her. Seriously, I can imagine a world in which I profess my love. I am fucked in the head. Hence, limerance. That's why I'm here, to distract myself.

I won't go into the boring (for you) details, but our conversation was meaningful and effortless, we shared the vulnerabilities that makes us human, expressed a mutual wonderment at the connection we felt, etc. Profound and beautiful.

Everything felt like it did the other times I fell in love, and when the girl also fell in love with me. I'm lost. I'm deliberately making myself stay away from contacting her any further. She sent a text shortly after, polite thank you. I shared a link to something i mentioned, and said she wasn't half bad for a fancy little pony and that I didn't believe half the things people say about her.

We hugged after and I went for a chaste peck on the lips and she said turned her face and said, "Stop trying to kiss me on the lips!" She was joking, but still. I said, "Don't flatter yourself," and it felt a little harsh, so I added, "OK, you can go ahead and flatter yourself." Didn't make a big deal of it, took off right after with promises to do it again soon. Is she afraid I'm going to try to make out with her? She is a world-class kisser, after all.

Why is this shit so hard? I haven't fallen this hard for a girl since 2007. It was probably worse then tbh, because of that girl's break-up, make-up cycle got me addicted to the make-up, break-up sex. So I know I can get over it, with time and effort.

Any advice? How long before I contact her again? And how? Or even should I?

I am not sure she'd reach out to me without a pretext, because she might be afraid I'd mis-read the signal as her wanting to be more than friends and resume a romantic relationship. But she did show up at my event, from a very indirect mass email, which I know I shouldn't over-interpret as an indication of interest, but hey, too late.

Our conversation today was so intimate, it's hard for me to believe she isn't feeling the same. I'm a ladies' man and I very rarely feel that depth of connection, how could it be any different for her?

At this point, I feel like setting a "chasing frame" is nearly impossible. I'm too sprung. But could I? Maybe send her a text next week saying, "OK now I owe you a hike." I don't know. I wish this shit got easier as you get older, but I'm here to testify that it just ain't so.
 
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gameboy

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So, why didn't she want a relationship with you? Did she give a reason?

I'm not in a good position to help you because I tend to mess up this kind of things as well, haha. I'd say see other women, but I know you're already doing that.

So with limerance girl, I think you either have to go for it at some point, or she will eventually end up with someone else.
 

Casanova Newhouse

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Not really any kind of a coherent reason. "It was moving too fast," that she vocalized doesn't qualify in my mind. You know the parable of the elephant and the rider? The elephant does what it wants and the rider comes up with justifications post hoc.

After our first encounter (want to be clear it wasn't a date, just getting drinks to discuss an issue of mutual interest) and we were heavy into the making out, she said, "I could see sleeping with you in six months." I took that to mean she was imagining I'd be the kind of guy she could see being with in a long-term relationship. Then, when our first date happened, we got to the dirty really fast. I was confused. I did push hard but it was entirely her decision.

She said later when we were emailing back and forth about something else that she obliquely mentioned not wanting to get into a relationship because she "was afraid our friendship would become something else, and then it would go wrong, and I'd be left feeling more alone than before." Seemed sincere.

Today I (mock) complained about her being like all the other girls and booty-calling me. She said I was pretty insistent, but then amended her statement, "I own the booty calling. It was a lot of fun and I don't regret it."

Girls are complicated.
 

gameboy

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Not really any kind of a coherent reason. "It was moving too fast," that she vocalized doesn't qualify in my mind. You know the parable of the elephant and the rider? The elephant does what it wants and the rider comes up with justifications post hoc.

After our first encounter (want to be clear it wasn't a date, just getting drinks to discuss an issue of mutual interest) and we were heavy into the making out, she said, "I could see sleeping with you in six months." I took that to mean she was imagining I'd be the kind of guy she could see being with in a long-term relationship. Then, when our first date happened, we got to the dirty really fast. I was confused. I did push hard but it was entirely her decision.

She said later when we were emailing back and forth about something else that she obliquely mentioned not wanting to get into a relationship because she "was afraid our friendship would become something else, and then it would go wrong, and I'd be left feeling more alone than before." Seemed sincere.

Today I (mock) complained about her being like all the other girls and booty-calling me. She said I was pretty insistent, but then amended her statement, "I own the booty calling. It was a lot of fun and I don't regret it."

Girls are complicated.
So she is interested, she just thinks it went too fast.

Well I'd keep gaming her, make sure no one else gets a chance to snatch her away. Text her from time to time, and meet up like you're already doing. And meanwhile, as long as you're not official with her, enjoy seeing other girls as well.
 

gameboy

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Have you considered posting a question in the General board? Many of the more experienced guys here probably don't even read all the Journals.
 

Casanova Newhouse

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Update:
I did it. Forced myself to go out solo.

It took every effort. I could feel the excuses piling up. Hey new episode of show I love just dropped. I'm feeling like a headache is coming on. I'll look a weird, sad loner. I don't want to spend money. Lemme call my boys, see if I can drag them out. And so on and on and on ... it was interesting to eavesdrop on my internal dialogue.

I had made up my mind earlier in the day that if I went out for anything less than a half hour I'd feel like a failure. At a certain point, the knowledge of how shitty I'd feel if I didn't go out kicked in. I couldn't take another lonely Saturday night, obsessing about limerance girl. An update on her below.

There was an event at the local outdoor venue going on near downtown, and it was busy. Immediately I saw a few young friends who busted my balls as I passed by and spotted a couple of cuties in my regular bar. My mood was quickly lifted out of its funk.

The plan was to post up at my regular watering hole and sit at the bar and nurse a drink for that half hour, then leave. I didn't put any expectations on myself about numbers of approaches, etc. I admire my peers @gameboy, @ZenRising and @JT Sunshine for their discipline on making approaches. I'm working up to it.

Instead I headed for the event at the park to do reconnaissance out of curiosity and ended up spending the better part of an hour watching performances. Outdoor venue was packed on this lovely spring evening, and the crowd was in a peaceful, loving groove. I did get cautioned to stand out of the line of sight of some people with lawn seats. I crouched down, then sat. The cautioner was a girl who's on the local arts scene a lot. Some might find her attractive - a Deborah Harry look but thicc. Not me, her thick vocal fry is like fingernails on the blackboard. There's been times when I felt she was mildly intrigued by me, but that voice was too much for me to reciprocate.

Went back to the bar, it had quieted down a lot. Ordered a rare drink (I mostly quit last fall and it's been good, don't miss the booze as much as I thought I would as I was often pounding a half bottle of bourbon a night).

I saw this really adorable girl who is new in town sitting at the bar with a dude, they appeared to be on a date. I might have busted a move otherwise. She appears to be in her late 30s or early 40s, maybe a little too young for proper dating, too old for a sugar baby. It was interesting to observe her date - the guy looked clean and presentable, but obviously not as striking or interesting-looking as me. If he was with a girl this hot, then sky's the limit for me. At least that's what I told myself.

Saw a couple of girls sitting on the patio on this cool, lovely evening. They invited me over. I know one pretty well - was the ex-gf to two of my main boys. (It's a small town - we say "you don't lose your lover, you lose your turn.") She's really cute, but has put on some weight over the years. Otherwise I might have a go, I am pretty sure she fancies me. Her friend was kinda attractive, a 50-year-old redhead, but I wasn't feeling the sexy good times vibe. Not excluding her entirely though.

My goal was being friendly, engaged, actively listening and sharing stories. Rapport. I probably talked more than I wanted to. My friends' ex - let's call her Cindy - thought I was still in a relationship, and she hounded me for details about my situation when she found out otherwise, and I could tell her and her friend's spider senses were tingling. An eligible bachelor! The rarest of all species on the Serengeti Plains of our small-town life.

Also, Cindy and her friend regretted having missed our performance last week. We've got to do an encore - we will easily sell out just through word of mouth.

Another two people joined us - both Germans, who I thought were a couple, but no, just fellow countrymen. The girl was maybe a little old for me, but still pretty cute. And so charming and stylish! I was feeling those mystic chords of humankind strumming along. We had a spirited, wide-ranging conversation. I kept myself busy facilitating it - asking people their views, smoothing out the awkward moments, thread-jacking when it seemed to stall or went into buzzkill zones, and generally keeping everyone involved and engaged.

It's something I'm quite good at - though my ex would often make disparaging comments about how much I would dominate conversations. Toward the end of our relationship I pushed back and asked her what percent of time she spent talking in our conversations. She sheepishly admitted, "75 percent." More like 80-85 pct actually. It was important to remind myself that any girl who felt it OK to disparage me for traits that weren't true wasn't worthy of me. It is important because I'd been missing her of late and am/was contemplating reaching out.

I sat there an hour with the four of them until our German friends made to leave. Cindy texted me afterward, saying it was fun to hang out. Sweet.

Limerance Girl:
I posted up in General about my situation. Not much feedback yet. We texted back and forth about a few things yesterday, and she sent me a long text reassuring me that she wouldn't ever share some of the indiscreet information she got out of me about a delicate situation in which I am involved. I teased her about putting sodium pentathol truth serum in her water bottle that we shared when he hung out Friday. I think she was qualifying herself to me.

I made myself wait til the morning to reply with another round of teasing, then asked her if she wanted to hang out later in the afternoon. She said no, her and friend were going to an event and would I like to join them? I thought hard about it. Two things legislated against it in my mind - one, I was in the middle of a home repair (I am one of the least handy people I know but it's got to be done), and two, for all I know her friend is a dude who's been pounding it out. Unlikely, but even if it was a girlfriend, I would have felt awkward. Probably for her, too.

She's leaving town at the end of the month for all of June, and I'd like to get another hangout before then, but at this point I don't know. She seemed to show little interest in hanging out today, despite me feeling like Friday was a breakthrough in the depth of our connection and attraction for each other. It would have been easy for her to say she's love to hang out soon, or even later in the day, etc, or suggest an alternative.

At this point, I think my best move is to leave the ball in her court. Wait for her to contact me. I've got a feeling that it might never happen. And I'll be on standby for months, hoping against hope.

But I'm not moping around, I'm taking action. I've got a lunch date for tomorrow lined up. The girl seems very earnest and nice, but I wasn't feeling much flirty banter during our conversation. Definitely not an artsy chick, my favorite kind, of which limerance girl is the beau ideal. But I'll keep an open mind.

This weekend was a step in the right direction. I fought through my social anxiety and had a good time. That's doesn't mean next time will be any easier, but at least I'm building confirmation that I'll be OK.
 

JT Sunshine

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Really great read Casanova! Big props to you for going out solo. You're right that it doesn't get easier, and those excuses in your head will always be there - but the more you do it and find success, the more you'll look forward to it, which helps a LOT. Sounds like you had some good fun - I always enjoy a reconnaissance mission too.

I'll be on the edge of my seat to see what happens with limerence girl, even if we have to wait a while... Enjoy that lunch date!
JT
 
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