What happens to guys who just don't get it (results with women)?

[Calibration]

Ya, your advice is golden. I was channeling your advice in a way that OP doesn't do it only superficially/robotically and think "oh! It doesn't work", while the reason it didn't work was not cos of the process but how he executed it - all the while his thoughts, body language and facial expressions sending off signals - I really need her, otherwise I'm doomed.

No matter what woman is in your life you will still have to face the gnawing inner feeling. Do whatever you have to do to face this. Be it meditations, somatic trauma release, counseling, volunteer work, community building, write daily things you are grateful for, or whatever you have to do. I don't know what path you should take. I just implore you to find ways to face it and find help if you need it.

OP, please take this advice.
We all have things not working right in our minds. For some it's less impactful while for others it's a show-stopper. Just identify them and work on them with higher priority more than working on getting women and/or improving seduction. Once you fix your mind (thoughts/emotions/feelings), women will be attracted to you like moths to a flame.

 

[StrayDog]

Ya, your advice is golden. I was channeling your advice in a way that OP doesn't do it only superficially/robotically and think "oh! It doesn't work", while the reason it didn't work was not cos of the process but how he executed it - all the while his thoughts, body language and facial expressions sending off signals - I really need her, otherwise I'm doomed.

yeah seduction, as technical as it is, isn't about doing things mechanically step by step. It is a dynamic living breathing experience. It is about being present with the moment and letting a bit of life shine through. Technique is just there to support a natural unfolding.

If one sees it all as practice, that really lowers the stakes and makes the whole thing more fun. The date becomes an opportunity to just explore and experiment and as long as you are doing that you are a winner.

OP, please take this advice.
We all have things not working right in our minds.

for sure, and all of this is not to say we need to be totally "fixed" to be with women. Just that it is important to strive to cultivate more helpful perspectives, and positive healthy coping tools.

The inner work is on going, and it can happen in tandem with the technical practice. And actually, some solid technical advancements can go a long way as well in changing the inner landscape. It is a kind of symbiotic feedback loop that positively reinforces one another.

 

[raiden]

Hi everybody. The advice had mixed results. I ran the same date twice with two different women and with one woman it went well and with another, it was awful. I checked afterward and I think that the second woman wasn't satisfied with my fundamentals, mainly my height. Now, I know that a woman's reasoning isn't necessarily reliable but the date was pretty much identical, all the way down to my clothes and the timing. I'm still hoping to organize more dates with the first woman but she's occupied with other stuff at the moment with her professional life.

But, more interestingly for all of you, I went out approaching with a coach. We stayed away from streets and went to other public places and I think that it went reasonably well. I did around 7 opens and 3 of them didn't end in blowout, and of those, 2 of them led to phone numbers. The women who gave the phone numbers responded to my texts afterwards and that makes it my most successful approach haul ever, because I have always been blocked instantly with every daygame phone number in the past. One of the women responded that it was nice talking but she feels a little uncomfortable with the whole thing and so she doesn't want to proceed. The other one is responding to my chitchat messages. I don't know if I'm very excited about this other woman on paper. On this session, I just approached as instructed by the coach because I hadn't approached in around 3 years so I took all the instruction that was there for me; my point is that I didn't really choose who to approach. My coach noted that my conversations were fine and so was my distance and positioning with respect to the women, and even that the women seemed to enjoy talking to me, and smiled sincerely during the interactions. The rejections were actually quite polite and surprised me. What I found is that I'm well suited to slow paced approaches without many external distractions such as music or alcohol or a loud venue.

Anyway,
1. Does this experience approaching show that I probably don't have any noticeable social problems and shouldn't worry about that stuff?
2. If the answer to 1 is yes, can you think of why in the world my dates from online have gone consistently badly? I've counted around 17 first dates in the past year.
3. Should I focus my efforts and energies on approaching or the online date stuff? My goal is to first break out of inceldom and then get a girlfriend. I don't have dreams to become a serial seducer or a harem kind of guy because I like to spend time alone and am a little bit scared about unplanned pregnancy, STD etc. (so it's best for me to have a girlfriend with whom pregnancy wouldn't necessarily be a problem).

 

[ulrich]

1. Does this experience approaching show that I probably don't have any noticeable social problems and shouldn't worry about that stuff?
2. If the answer to 1 is yes, can you think of why in the world my dates from online have gone consistently badly? I've counted around 17 first dates in the past year.

1) Not enough information to draw a conclusion on you social skills, but this is a good sign.

2) It could be screening.
A lot of women in apps are not always looking for boyfriends, despite what they say… many of them just want a lay with a sexy stranger who is out of their league.
If you give boyfriend vibes, maybe they think “oh no, this guy is going to be clingy” and ditch on you.
You may be missing some clues on how app dating works… yes, there’s a lot more “quick sex, let’s never see each other again” than it would seem.

 

[leadingbealwaysido]

Anyway,
1. Does this experience approaching show that I probably don't have any noticeable social problems and shouldn't worry about that stuff?
2. If the answer to 1 is yes, can you think of why in the world my dates from online have gone consistently badly? I've counted around 17 first dates in the past year.
3. Should I focus my efforts and energies on approaching or the online date stuff? My goal is to first break out of inceldom and then get a girlfriend. I don't have dreams to become a serial seducer or a harem kind of guy because I like to spend time alone and am a little bit scared about unplanned pregnancy, STD etc. (so it's best for me to have a girlfriend with whom pregnancy wouldn't necessarily be a problem).

Have you ever had the thought that YOU might actually be pushing women away from you?

It sounds crazy right? But this do happen quite more than you realize and it all makes sense once you understand the conflict between the conscious and unconscious mind.

You seem like you want to have women in your life, but are somehow uncosciously doing something to push them away. Then finding a scapegoat with a victim story...

Its like an unconscious strategy where you actually are trying to protecting yourself from something... The problem that arises is that what you say you want and what your life demonstrates is not in alignment. This is because of an internal conflict that comes from trauma (emotional baggage).

One example was when I encountered this lady that was depressed... I found her internal conflict and balanced it with only 4 questions. So the first question i asked is
1. If you have a magic wand, what would you change in your life to make your life perfect (I am asking this to identify the fantasy)
- "I want a husband to start a familiy with" she said clearly... "And no matter how hard i try I cant just seem to find one"
2. Well... where in your life do you already have a husband?
- She hesitated a bit before answering "Well i have a best friend (girl) that I share my life with and I have a lover (man)
3. Okei so if you put this lover and this friend girl together to one person, would that be the perfect man for you?
- "Yes."
4. Okei... so I am curios... why do you not want a husband in your life
- As these words hit her, she breaks down in tears and the whole room had chills down her spine as she says... "I want my freedom"...

So as we discovered... her true priority in life was freedom, but because all her family members and friends said its time to find a husband and start a familiy and her own life purpose got clouded by all the opinions on the outside.... she started to expect herself to live a life not aligned to her purpose in life. So she was actually protecting her own freedom by not being able to find a suitable husband despite all the effort that she did towards it.

So after following this thread it seems more and more obvious for me that you are have some sort of unconscious strategy to create the results you are creating. That you have some needs that you are fulfilling by not having women in your life.

So what are you really trying to protect yourself from by not being able to attract girls into your life?
- Are you afraid of being responsible for her feelings?
- Are you afraid that once she knows something about you that you are shameful about she will reject you (like one of your parents rejected you)...
- Did you see your father suffer in a relationship with a woman and you do not want to experience this same suffering in your life?
- What are the benefits you get out of not having girls in your life.
- What are the drawback to you if you would have women in your life (this question will help you go balance your fantasy and get back into reality, and btw reality is way better than any fantasy you can impose upon reality)

Idk, it could be anything that you try to protect yourself from... I have no idea what that might be, but asking quality question you can uncover what this is. Once you get conscious about your unconscious strategy, you have something to work with. But it takes courage to find this, becauseits an ego structure that you will actually in a way kill. And I promise you that parts of your ego will not want to die... So it goes down to if you want to be a master of your destiny or a victim of your history.

Another more powerful example shows just how this internal conflict might play out in human behavior...
Once I was working with this guy having so many panic attacks he could not leave his house. Even though he said he wanted a life where he could be normal, have a job and go anywhere without having panic attacks the truth is that he really enjoyed being at home watching tv and playing video games. The internal conflict he had with himself was because of his parents not accepting those priorities he had and forced him to do some chores, go visit friends, work etc. And because he was so afraid of losing respect from his parents he were not able to be true to himself and communicate to his parents what he really wanted to do in his life. So the perfect solution became to be the panic attacks. His parents would leave him alone. And he got the life how he wanted. When I confronted him on this he broke down in tears because he just realized that his panic attacks was helping him get what he wanted in life and helping him live true to himself. So then we worked on helping him communicate this to his parents and not being afraid of them not respecting him for it, and the panic attacks stopped.

Funny side note... When I got to talk this guy i told a story about here... he was actually IN A RELATIONSHIP! He found a girl online with 5 children and moved in with her. Apparently it was something that was aligned for him so he was able to move from his parents to this girls house without panic attack. Its amazing how we actually manifest exactly what we truly want in life, and sometimes we are not able to admit what we truly want.

 

[raiden]

1) Not enough information to draw a conclusion on you social skills, but this is a good sign.

2) It could be screening.
A lot of women in apps are not always looking for boyfriends, despite what they say… many of them just want a lay with a sexy stranger who is out of their league.
If you give boyfriend vibes, maybe they think “oh no, this guy is going to be clingy” and ditch on you.
You may be missing some clues on how app dating works… yes, there’s a lot more “quick sex, let’s never see each other again” than it would seem.

So my fundamentals are piss poor enough that I fail to get into the 'sexy guy' category and get slotted into the boyfriend category. Then, because my boyfriend value isn't high enough or the woman isn't looking for a boyfriend candidate, or just life happens, I don't get the girl. Is that what you think could be it?

Have you ever had the thought that YOU might actually be pushing women away from you?

It sounds crazy right? But this do happen quite more than you realize and it all makes sense once you understand the conflict between the conscious and unconscious mind.

You seem like you want to have women in your life, but are somehow uncosciously doing something to push them away. Then finding a scapegoat with a victim story...

Its like an unconscious strategy where you actually are trying to protecting yourself from something... The problem that arises is that what you say you want and what your life demonstrates is not in alignment. This is because of an internal conflict that comes from trauma (emotional baggage).

One example was when I encountered this lady that was depressed... I found her internal conflict and balanced it with only 4 questions. So the first question i asked is
1. If you have a magic wand, what would you change in your life to make your life perfect (I am asking this to identify the fantasy)
- "I want a husband to start a familiy with" she said clearly... "And no matter how hard i try I cant just seem to find one"
2. Well... where in your life do you already have a husband?
- She hesitated a bit before answering "Well i have a best friend (girl) that I share my life with and I have a lover (man)
3. Okei so if you put this lover and this friend girl together to one person, would that be the perfect man for you?
- "Yes."
4. Okei... so I am curios... why do you not want a husband in your life
- As these words hit her, she breaks down in tears and the whole room had chills down her spine as she says... "I want my freedom"...

So as we discovered... her true priority in life was freedom, but because all her family members and friends said its time to find a husband and start a familiy and her own life purpose got clouded by all the opinions on the outside.... she started to expect herself to live a life not aligned to her purpose in life. So she was actually protecting her own freedom by not being able to find a suitable husband despite all the effort that she did towards it.

So after following this thread it seems more and more obvious for me that you are have some sort of unconscious strategy to create the results you are creating. That you have some needs that you are fulfilling by not having women in your life.

So what are you really trying to protect yourself from by not being able to attract girls into your life?
- Are you afraid of being responsible for her feelings?
- Are you afraid that once she knows something about you that you are shameful about she will reject you (like one of your parents rejected you)...
- Did you see your father suffer in a relationship with a woman and you do not want to experience this same suffering in your life?
- What are the benefits you get out of not having girls in your life.
- What are the drawback to you if you would have women in your life (this question will help you go balance your fantasy and get back into reality, and btw reality is way better than any fantasy you can impose upon reality)

Idk, it could be anything that you try to protect yourself from... I have no idea what that might be, but asking quality question you can uncover what this is. Once you get conscious about your unconscious strategy, you have something to work with. But it takes courage to find this, becauseits an ego structure that you will actually in a way kill. And I promise you that parts of your ego will not want to die... So it goes down to if you want to be a master of your destiny or a victim of your history.

Another more powerful example shows just how this internal conflict might play out in human behavior...
Once I was working with this guy having so many panic attacks he could not leave his house. Even though he said he wanted a life where he could be normal, have a job and go anywhere without having panic attacks the truth is that he really enjoyed being at home watching tv and playing video games. The internal conflict he had with himself was because of his parents not accepting those priorities he had and forced him to do some chores, go visit friends, work etc. And because he was so afraid of losing respect from his parents he were not able to be true to himself and communicate to his parents what he really wanted to do in his life. So the perfect solution became to be the panic attacks. His parents would leave him alone. And he got the life how he wanted. When I confronted him on this he broke down in tears because he just realized that his panic attacks was helping him get what he wanted in life and helping him live true to himself. So then we worked on helping him communicate this to his parents and not being afraid of them not respecting him for it, and the panic attacks stopped.

Funny side note... When I got to talk this guy i told a story about here... he was actually IN A RELATIONSHIP! He found a girl online with 5 children and moved in with her. Apparently it was something that was aligned for him so he was able to move from his parents to this girls house without panic attack. Its amazing how we actually manifest exactly what we truly want in life, and sometimes we are not able to admit what we truly want.

Are you sure that this is not just a philosophical musing that isn't useful to me? It sounds like what I read in the book "The Courage to be disliked". The fact is that I just want to get laid and have a girlfriend same as every other guy and I've tried to do what I think would work and failed consistently. I don't think that we need to go into the whys and wherefores but instead find out why I'm failing, and that is more of a mechanical exercise. I've wanted this for 10+ years. Maybe I haven't always converted the 'want' into action to achieve it but I have wanted it. Is it really productive to wonder why? The woman in your story clearly wanted her lover to step up and make things more serious. And she wanted him to do that of his own volition rather than tell him to do it.

 

[ulrich]

So my fundamentals are piss poor enough that I fail to get into the 'sexy guy' category and get slotted into the boyfriend category. Then, because my boyfriend value isn't high enough or the woman isn't looking for a boyfriend candidate, or just life happens, I don't get the girl. Is that what you think could be it?

Your fundamentals could be good.
The “sexy guy” category really means great fundamentals + social skills + sexual experience.

But yes, this is what I think it could be.

If you’re meeting girls through apps with the intention of getting a girlfriend, you might as well focus on Bumble as it attracts that kind of audience.

The other thing is… how much do you communicate that you want a girlfriend?

There is nothing bad with that but society’s paradigm is usually “hot guy chases for sex, girl convinces him of getting into a relationship”.
If you’re coming into your interactions looking too eager to get a girlfriend, girls will default into thinking you have low value as a mate and pass you.
At the very least you should be ambiguous about your intentions.

 

[raiden]

Your fundamentals could be good.
The “sexy guy” category really means great fundamentals + social skills + sexual experience.

But yes, this is what I think it could be.

If you’re meeting girls through apps with the intention of getting a girlfriend, you might as well focus on Bumble as it attracts that kind of audience.

The other thing is… how much do you communicate that you want a girlfriend?

There is nothing bad with that but society’s paradigm is usually “hot guy chases for sex, girl convinces him of getting into a relationship”.
If you’re coming into your interactions looking too eager to get a girlfriend, girls will default into thinking you have low value as a mate and pass you.
At the very least you should be ambiguous about your intentions.

The last time that I had sex, it was a good experience for the woman. My coach seems to think that I demonstrated good sicial skills in my approaches. So my poor fundamentals could be letting me down.

My coach fed me with a canned line for "what are you looking for" while leaving it mysterious. Even Chase gave one of these in one of his emails. I just feel like my dates are going south way before the "what are you looking for" topic even comes up.

Edit : The reason why I keep harping on about my piss poor fundamentals is because when I hear stories about guys starting out with seduction, experienced guys e.g. Chase, Hector, when they started out knew that women were interested but had no idea what to do about it. That's what motivated them to learn seduction. For me, I'm not having that issue ; it seems like nobody at all is interested. These guys started out hopeless with women but they had opportunities, ostensibly thanks to natural fundamentals. I feel like I could learn every trick in the book - and my coach told me that I'm like an encyclopedia or bibliography for game knowledge - but still fail due to my limited fundamentals. Attraction is there or it isn't. An approach invitation indicates that it is there. It happens before the approach even begins. We don't discuss here what causes the attraction because it's not useful and almost philosophical, like discharging what causes a coin to come up heads when we toss it (precisely, the velocity, spin, height etc. could cause it, but we prefer to use a probabilistic representation). Whatever it is that causes attraction, call it that 'special something'. What if I just don't have it and am simply unattractive at the most base level?

 

[ulrich]

My coach fed me with a canned line for "what are you looking for" while leaving it mysterious. Even Chase gave one of these in one of his emails. I just feel like my dates are going south way before the "what are you looking for" topic even comes up.

Maybe there’s a time and a place for that phrase but I can’t think of anything good coming out of it.

“What are you looking for?” puts the girl in the driver’s seat and kills the tension.
Whatever you say after that will be interpreted by the girl as you calibrating to her response.

I’d try not using that one until you are in a more abundant state.

 

[raiden]

Maybe there’s a time and a place for that phrase but I can’t think of anything good coming out of it.

“What are you looking for?” puts the girl in the driver’s seat and kills the tension.
Whatever you say after that will be interpreted by the girl as you calibrating to her response.

I’d try not using that one until you are in a more abundant state.

The canned line is as a response when the woman asks me. Of course I know that I should not ask it myself.

 

[ulrich]

The canned line is as a response when the woman asks me. Of course I know that I should not ask it myself.

Still, why are you not taking the lead?

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

It's around 20-30 lifetime approaches.

That's a absurdly low number. And the fact that you have created this thread while having such a insanely low number of approaches, shows that there is something seriously wrong with your mindset.

Especially since:

I first read GC back in 2016

So you know PUA for at least 7 years, and you haven't realised yet that 20-30 approaches is nothing?

1. You haven't failed yet, because you haven't really tried. 20-30 approaches is negligible and doesn't count as actual trying. Although unfortunately you did fail in such a way, that you have obviously wasted 7 or more years doing basically nothing.

2. There is something wrong with your thinking, your perception of this whole subject. This might be also sabotaging you when doing interactions with women.

In my town, guys go 100-200 street approaches before they get a date.

Most people in PUA lay 1 woman for a few hundreds of approaches. That's not popular, that's bad for the business, so a lot of seduction coaches will not tell you that and a lot of non-coach people are too ashamed to admit this, but that is the truth.

Some people are much better than that, but you can't count on being exceptional and better than the majority.

My theory about the guys who can't get laid to save their lives is that they have zero emotional contagion.

As much as the women look at these dudes and like how they look, how they smell, and whatever else about them, these dudes cannot make women FEEL anything. The dude's experience of reality and their own cannot merge and remain separated by a distance that neither one is able to cross. And ultimately, even though a woman might want things to go ahead, she cannot submit psychologically without feeling emotionally intimate. This results in her sooner or later auto-rejecting the guy as a way to cover up a failure of intimacy she may not even fully understand.

I also think that's a problem with lack of emotional contagion. Such guys have a asexual, "empty" vibe.

I'm on the other side of the axis - women are attracted to me way more than they "should" be. I'm good looking, let's say 7/10, but for some reason many 8+ girls prefer me over 8+ guys. I'm emotional, sensitive and extremely sexual - so I have very strong emotional and sexual contagion.

Once I've made an autism scale test just for curiosity. The results were not surprising - according to the test, I'm less autistic than the average person.

My impression is that autism level is a bit like second looks score, just in reverse:

High autism - "robots" with problems with women.

Normal level of autism - normal people with normal results.

Below average autism - emotional people with potential for "hard to explain" successes with women, due to strong emotional contagion.

 

[leadingbealwaysido]

Are you sure that this is not just a philosophical musing that isn't useful to me? It sounds like what I read in the book "The Courage to be disliked". The fact is that I just want to get laid and have a girlfriend same as every other guy and I've tried to do what I think would work and failed consistently. I don't think that we need to go into the whys and wherefores but instead find out why I'm failing, and that is more of a mechanical exercise. I've wanted this for 10+ years. Maybe I haven't always converted the 'want' into action to achieve it but I have wanted it. Is it really productive to wonder why? The woman in your story clearly wanted her lover to step up and make things more serious. And she wanted him to do that of his own volition rather than tell him to do it.

I do believe it is worth to go into the subconscious mind... And you seem to be a smart guy, I do not want to paint a picture that it never has to do with "mechanical exercises" those things help, but in truth the software of it is the 20% that makes the 80%... Picture yourself driving a car with the break on, you could have a ferrari, but if your breaks are on you still dont go fast. That is how it is to have a conflict with the conscious and subconscious mind...

The problem is that you are telling us you have wanted this for 10 years... well your subconscious mind does not care about what you want consciosuly, so even though you think its what you want and truly believe its what you want, if you have some subconscious block, you (conscious mind) will not win.

It seems like you have tried for 10 years doing the mechanical stuff... And I am inviting you to go into the software stuff. If I were not able to convince you and you think you know a better path - go for it.

And in regards of the girl in the story, I did not want to write too much context here, but it's not that she wanted the lover to step up. She did not see him as a potential husband. She was trying for 5 years to find a husband, only realizing that she was self-sabotaging herself and then ending up blaming herself or blaming the men she met...

I have never heard about that book, but I highly doubt it adresses what I am talking about here.

I think if you were to choose to look into the software stuff of this, you can't really do it alone. Finding a facilitator that can help you with that is paramount. As they say... When the student is ready the teacher appears.

 

[leadingbealwaysido]

Most people in PUA lay 1 woman for a few hundreds of approaches. That's not popular, that's bad for the business, so a lot of seduction coaches will not tell you that and a lot of non-coach people are too ashamed to admit this, but that is the truth.

I know a lot of PUA people... I think 1/100 is when you are starting out and in a nightgame setting maybe.
Just for myself, when I am doing daygame in europe I consistently get 1 lay per 20 approach. It can go up or down depending on the city, but in general thats where I land.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

I know a lot of PUA people... I think 1/100 is when you are starting out and in a nightgame setting maybe.
Just for myself, when I am doing daygame in europe I consistently get 1 lay per 20 approach. It can go up or down depending on the city, but in general thats where I land.

It depends on multiple factors and it varies greatly, but as far as I know, most people in PUA have 1 lay for a few hundreds of aproaches. I don't mean people who are good at it - I mean the unremarkable majority.

One thing is that they usually don't admit this on forums/FB groups, or even in private conversations. They will say something like "oh I lay one in 10", but when you observe them approach dozens and dozens of girls (on multiple occasions) with no result, you realise their "1 in 10" number is a lie. I've spoken about this with my friends and they've shared my observation that there are a lot of PUAs who seem to almost never got laid, despite doing many approaches a week, for years. Some of the friends admitted they were in such a situation themselves.

BTW Please note some posts in the thread:

In my town, guys go 100-200 street approaches before they get a date.

He estimated he needed 200 approaches to get a girl in bed and 500 approaches to get a girlfriend. None of his girlfriends were women he was happy with.

I probably approached 1,200+ girls before I got my first girlfriend.

Such things really happen - and I claim they happen way more often than people admit.

There are people who get decent, good or excellent results, sure, but most PUAs suck hard. And these failed PUAs have their circles of non-PUA friends from normal life who see their lack of success and conclude that PUA is a fantasy for naive people.

PUA can be a good or even a great thing for a person, but a lot of people fail at it.

 

[leadingbealwaysido]

It depends on multiple factors and it varies greatly, but as far as I know, most people in PUA have 1 lay for a few hundreds of aproaches. I don't mean people who are good at it - I mean the unremarkable majority.

One thing is that they usually don't admit this on forums/FB groups, or even in private conversations. They will say something like "oh I lay one in 10", but when you observe them approach dozens and dozens of girls (on multiple occasions) with no result, you realise their "1 in 10" number is a lie. I've spoken about this with my friends and they've shared my observation that there are a lot of PUAs who seem to almost never got laid, despite doing many approaches a week, for years. Some of the friends admitted they were in such a situation themselves.

BTW Please note some posts in the thread:






Such things really happen - and I claim they happen way more often than people admit.

There are people who get decent, good or excellent results, sure, but most PUAs suck hard. And these failed PUAs have their circles of non-PUA friends from normal life who see their lack of success and conclude that PUA is a fantasy for naive people.

PUA can be a good or even a great thing for a person, but a lot of people fail at it.

You are not talking about Pick Up Artist bro... You are talking about people learning pick up.

When you are an artist, you have close to mastered the skill and youd better have some better results than that.

My first week of doing daygame I did 25 approaches and had 5 dates and 4 lays... And I do not call myself a pick up artist at all. I am no where near the "artist" level.

 

[Adventurer]

Not saying it's impossible in some situations, but I'm having trouble believing those numbers. Approaching is hard, a normal person would have long given up or refined his strategy before reaching hundreds of approaches.

As for doing hundreds or thousands of approaches on purpose, shooting for the one out of 500 that will work, the material here is way too effective that you have to do this imo. Even going to meetup groups and asking numbers to random girls as a complete beginner (27 year old virgin at the time), I got laid after getting 10 or 15 numbers by blindly doing the tech from the articles. I don't know many other seducers but my friends who get girls naturally also don't do that many approaches at all

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

You are not talking about Pick Up Artist bro... You are talking about people learning pick up.

I'm using "PUA" term as "person participating in the PUA community" - regardless of level of skill or level of effects.

My first week of doing daygame I did 25 approaches and had 5 dates and 4 lays... And I do not call myself a pick up artist at all. I am no where near the "artist" level.

Effects can vary greatly depending on looks, the personality of a person, method used, environment and target selection. The amount of experience is just one of many factors.

A lot of guys trying PUA are mediocre or somewhat poorly looking guys, often with some level of autism/Asperger syndrome, often listening to the wrong coaches within the PUA industry and doing weird things. That's how the negative image of PUAs as "weirdo losers" was created - it didn't just appear due to no reason.

Not saying it's impossible in some situations, but I'm having trouble believing those numbers. Approaching is hard, a normal person would have long given up or refined his strategy before reaching hundreds of approaches.

I understand why you think so, I was thinking like that too, long ago. Then I was shocked again and again, when I saw how the PUA community really looks like. A lot of people in it are heavily deluded - they "live in the future", following their dream of being masters of women and not paying much attention to the fact they're not succeeding in the present. For some people it more or less works and they start to succeed, but many are stuck following the dream and never achieve it, despite having spent years at trying. Which was always a huge inconvenient "elephant in the room" for the PUA community.

Trying to use logic and common sense doesn't work here, because these people are deluded and lack common sense.

If you want to use logic, I recommend this: think about how the negative stereotype of a PUA as loser was created.

BTW There is a certain PUA coach, Krauser, experienced day gamer, who posted his statistics for a year. https://krauserpua.com/2014/01/01/my-2013-daygame-stats/

"So that’s one lay per 37 opens. It sounds about right. I think it’s 1 in 20 on holiday and 1 in 50 in London"

Many experienced PUAs, who are considered "good" by others, get results like that - 1 lay for a few dozens of aproaches. And for many others, the unremarkable mass of people you never hear about, it's often 1 lay for 100+ approaches.

I don't know many other seducers but my friends who get girls naturally also don't do that many approaches at all

Naturals have a completely different characteristic. Generally, naturals are better than PUAs.

 

[ulrich]

"So that’s one lay per 37 opens. It sounds about right. I think it’s 1 in 20 on holiday and 1 in 50 in London"

Many experienced PUAs, who are considered "good" by others, get results like that - 1 lay for a few dozens of aproaches. And for many others, the unremarkable mass of people you never hear about, it's often 1 lay for 100+ approaches.

You’re lacking a lot of context throwing those numbers like that in here.
1 lay per 100 approaches and even more is expected for a total newbie who lacks social finesse, who is young, lacks clear value and is a virgin.

Yes, that is to expect from absolute beginners.

Any seasoned PUA (top 20%, 4+ years experience) is doing 1 lay in 20 approaches (more or less).
That comes down to skillfully manage targeting, logistics, flirting, frame control and many other techniques.

You can’t really grab all experienced/non-experienced guys and put them all in the same bag.

Naturals have a completely different characteristic. Generally, naturals are better than PUAs.

A bunch of bollocks.

“Natural” is the word someone uses to describe another guy that is good with women but the observer can’t explain.

A master seducer (someone who studied and understood these seduction dynamics) is usually much better than any “natural”.
“Naturals” usually don’t have the drive to perfect this craft.

Again, I think these misconceptions come from thinking the average PUA experience is the same as the skilled PUA experience.
There is a huge difference.

 

[OldGuy]

I had trouble for years because I did not recognize the "make love" signals, and later the "marry me signals". Lost my virginity at 33, when my date told me she would throw me out if I did not fuck her.

As for Autism, my best friend's son is autistic, and has a hot girlfriend (who is austistic).